- Cynical Indulgence - (Shmeng is not a Gothic site)Sep 23, 2023 - 09:32 AM  
Welcome to  Shmeng
 Home | Articles | Galleries | Forums | Site Info | Web Links | Reviews | Register 
Forums Section


 not logged in

Normal Rooms
General4 users
AntiStaticCleaningWi, melinda_halliwell_tu, Mistress_SinisterLov, littlegothgirlthatco

Who's Online
Currently no members online:)

You are an anonymous user. You can register for free by clicking here
We have 6 guests online !


   User ID:  Pass:        Forgot Password? click here or  Join here
You are not logged in

< Last Thread   Next Thread ><<  1    2    3    4  >>Ascending sortDescending sorting  
Author: Subject: Bush, Hitler, Hussein: Who's bad?


Posts: 522
Registered: 6/7/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 29/1/2003 at 03:36 PM
As some may know there is a little debate going on in the Talk Box, itís all in the pursuit of gaining knowledge *for me it is* and so I hope you all see it the same. Letís begin the rants.

Hitler was ignored by America, by France, by Britain till he became to powerful. Iím speaking in the general sense after he did take title of dictator in Germany. (NOTE: We all know that he was thrown into prison after trying to take control the first time around and thus he wasnít ignored by his own country.) Hussein is simply another madman with title of dictator, possibly masturbating while watching his torture tapes made with the use of his own people. Does he pose a nuclear or biological threat, possibly. Should we attack on assumptions, no. We are in war mode however, 9/11 was only a taste of what is to come unless we didnít act and I believe Iraq may have more to do with 9/11/ and of financing terrorist operations that one may expect. (If you think that I am using 9/11 and terrorism as my only argument to attack Iraq, donít. Oil is a practical reason...the people there suffer everyday from Husseinís iron grip and once we be rid of him, we can actually help etc...)

Now, here again is the argument that we are attacking a weaker nation (or Ēattacking our weaker neighborĒ) who is in the spotlight. Also thereís the comparison of Bush and America to the older Nazi regime. I see that as more anti-this/that propaganda and find it laughable. We are not on a one set tract to wipe out race A or race B, we have not taken away the rights of other races. (although some lower unfair prejudices may arise from locals/ in airlines) There are not any concentration camps dedicated to the genocide of race A or race B...the American nation has not done this in modern times. (NOTE: This country was built on the blood of Native Americans, we are all aware of that. To compare that to modern day affairs is however, irrelevant.) Weíve seen THIS all before, though, across the seas and hints of it in South America, time and time again.

- And the No.1 reason why I do invoke Hitler is because after reading Mein Kampf you understand the manís mode of thinking just alittle more than the average dolt, saturated with propaganda. Does this mean I am a ďHitler expertĒ, by no means.
However, if youíd want to say that I cannot assume anything about Hitler because I do not know him on a personal level; excluding propaganda, then I can say the same to you and your opinions on Bush and you on my opinions on Hussein.- This argument simply flip-flops.

Going off topic for a second, anyone heard of that movie called ďMax.Ē Itís about Hitler, in his years as a artist, before he rose to power. Itís a good watch if you can find it in theaters, it goes beyond the lines of ďblack and whiteĒ, it attempts to explain him. http://filmforce.ign.com/moremovies/objects/34764.html< br />


but at least you know, just how much pain there is in living


Posts: 580
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 29/1/2003 at 10:16 PM
I'm not getting into this waste of time with you. You already have forums started about Bush, Iraq or the so-called war on terrorism that you could have posted this under. You have already demonstrated that you can give no justification for US aggression that is not internally inconsistent, based upon an ad populum call for vengeance and/or ethically unsound. You have stated before when presented with an argument that you could not refute that you refused to change your position regardless of any facts presented and I am not going to waste my time presenting a case to someone who is simply being petulant. Just like the antagonistic US foreign policy that you keep endorsing, you have eroded your credibility by pursuing your agenda at all costs and in the face of reasoned discourse. I will confine all my future responses to those I feel are debating genuinely and are capable of viewing an issue from more than a single side.




Posts: 522
Registered: 6/7/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 30/1/2003 at 04:52 PM
*shakes head* Ok, five points.

1) Being petulant? I did say anything offensive but apparently my *opinion* is offensive to your omnipotent intelligence or to your perspective. I try not to offend/ belittle anyone purposely or without justification and if I did then forgive me.

2) Eroding my credibility? heh, Christ this is the internet, not real life.

3) Iíve repeated myself numerous times on why I believe we should go to war in other threads and so I did not bother to do so again. If it seems that I did then that is my mistake. The facts are thin and I even said that this is a touchy issue to find the reasons for a preemptive strike. To refute anotherís opinion on this issue with a lack of evidence is difficult and so this is a debate of opinions...but then again, many debates are.

4) Opinions are like asses, everyone has one.

5) Iím done repeating myself.


f"> size=1> but at least you know, just how much pain there is in living


Extreme Fanatic

Posts: 893
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 30/1/2003 at 06:34 PM
I thought you made a good argument, Alone... I do not remember any badgering/closemindedness in the other War on Iraq forum, and I'm too lazy to go look. But as this discussion was transferred over from the talkbox (to which I am also ignorant. I have no idea what was said, since its probably gone now.)

I partially agree that Bush is not Hitler. For one, Bush is too dumb. (sorry, cheap shot, I know... )

But seriously, I think he resembles Mussolini more... Fascism seems to suit him. And, with the inbalance of republicans in congress, its -almost- like a dictatorship.

Of course there is the question, where is the line between fascism and patriotism?
I'm not sure, but I think Bush has crossed the line.... He does whatever he wants, without thinking of the possible effects from our friends. He declares that it is America's duty as the number one power to police the rest of the world. Mussolini wanted to restore the Roman Empire to its former glory. Bush seems to want to create a new American Empire, complete with pax Americana (which is a lofty ideal).

Get rid of terrorism, he says, with the 'War on Terror'. Right. Just like we got rid of drugs with the 'War on Drugs'.



Posts: 522
Registered: 6/7/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 30/1/2003 at 06:49 PM
Agreed. *especially with the stupidity part on Bush/ the War on Terrorism slogan being over used.* ...America though has been a expansionist nation but we havenít over stepped our bounds to the point of totalitarianism. (I believe in that the ideals that are government {by the people, for the people} are running alive and well today. Democracy is something which we want to spread.)

Sometimes I wonder if Dick were president and Bush was vice, would there EVEN be a change in how the situations after 9/11 would be handled? Perhaps Bush has taken more of the role of puppet than I'd though. - Still I am curious to see how the country will turn out after he is done his term. You never know what will happen in the time of 2(?) years.




f"> HREF="http://www.pathetic.org/library.php?i_memberid=2042">
size=1> but at least you know, just how much pain there is in living



Posts: 580
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 30/1/2003 at 08:50 PM
All I can say is holy fucking shit. Life is a video game to you people, isn't it? "This is the internet, not real life". You are talking about signing the death warrants for THOUSANDS OF IRAQI HUMAN BEINGS here because you have gotten it into your head that Hussein is a "...madman... possibly masturbating while watching his torture tapes made with the use of his own people". And Ironboots... you think THAT is a "good argument"??? Am I even sharing the same planet as you sociopaths?

If you are such a scholar of history, Alone, then you know perfectly well that we DID have concentration camps in the USA for Japanese Americans in the 1940's and that the INS has recently been expanded to tag people of Arabic/middle eastern extraction so that we can assemble concentration camps again quickly in the coming, entirely manufactured, conflict. You also think that it is irrelevant to talk about our massacre of the peoples and cultures of America in the 1700's but entirely on topic to compare someone that you don't like to a defunct government from more than a half century ago in a nation that is only peripherally involved at best to the question at hand?? Since you are such an astute historian, you are also perfectly aware that Nazi Germany's race policies were based on American and British eugenicist's policies during the 1920's and 1930's in which thousands of Americans were sterilized... but, as you have been so quick to point out, only the bad things done by non-Americans are relevant to the debate. Therefore, we can only talk about the bad things that we SUSPECT Saddam Hussein might have done to the Iraqi people and can not mention the cobalt-iodine bombs that the USA dropped on them during Desert Storm or the recently uncovered fact that we buried wounded Iraqi soldiers alive in mass graves during that conflict so that there would be no photographs of Iraqi casulaties on American televisions. We should not mention that the United States filtered weapons to Iranians during the 1980's to kill these Iraqis that Hussein has allegedly treated so poorly. It is irrelevant that the CIA issued a statement that there are no known weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, but IF there were, they would be unlikely to be used unless Iraq were first attacked. It is irrelevant to mention that the ONLY country to ever use nuclear weapons in anger is the United States. All that is relevant is to compare Hussein to Adolf Hitler to sway public opinion and justify killing more Iraqis... and even though you find such an argument laughable and childish when applied to your hero Bush the Younger, I would urge you to remember that YOU WERE THE ONE WHO STARTED IT.

This is all a big game to you. You are either willfully ignorant of the facts (in the same way that a fundamentalist Christian is incapable of accepting things that aren't in the Bible), or you are genuinely jazzed about the idea that people are going to die and you will get the opportunity to see it. In either case, there is no getting through to you unless it involves a contest to see who can shit the most red, white and blue. Here's something to upset your little paradigm... if democracy were something we were interested in spreading globally, we would be a democratic country. A scholar of history such as yourself should know that we are not and never have been... but I guess they don't teach you things like that in Duke Nukem 3D (or whatever your latest bloodbath-based pastime is... oh, I remember, Desert Storm 2D).

You have succeeded in royally pissing me off.



Extreme Fanatic

Posts: 1570
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 30/1/2003 at 09:50 PM
Man, I am just gonna kick it and watch the teeth fly.
I would kill for a copy of a celebrity death match of this. Seriously.


Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.



Posts: 522
Registered: 6/7/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 30/1/2003 at 11:36 PM
Fine! Here we go again. (I said I wonít repeat myself due to the fucking spiral this debate has become.)

Yes, I remember now that we did have concentration camps for the Japanese during WWII, that was my mistake.

Bush isnít my hero, not a chance in hell, donít assume that.

This isnít a game to me, itís a fucking discussion that Iíve been over before. - THAT IS IT! - I for one cannot start or stop a war with my single opinion in this site. I have not signed the death warrant of any person in that country, our government did that. I do not walk around with signs in bold print proclaiming to ďNUKE IRAQĒ.

This conversation over the internet; I try to at least remind people, is not taken so damn seriously. I wonder sometimes if you even realize that.

Oh yeah, I havenít played Duke3d in about five or six years. I havenít really had times for games lately since college and working are what make up my days. Also, I never once said I was a fucking expert in history or ANYTHING of those matters. How often have I been screaming out that this is a conversation of opinions? Donít make fucking god damn assumptions on me (or on the other person you mentioned) based by a few things that I have discussed here or that youíve read from me before. You donít know me beyond a fucking monitor.
*sits back*
And try not to sprout gray hairs over this issue, stress kills.
I'm done.




HREF="http://www.pathetic.org/library.php?i_memberid=2042"> />
size=1> but at least you know, just how much pain there is in living


Extreme Fanatic

Posts: 618
Registered: 27/9/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 31/1/2003 at 12:42 AM
I've read everything on this particular forum, and now I'm going to voice my own personal opinions.

(1) I normally try to vote for the independent party nominee in most elections of any kind when available, for the simple reason that the last time I felt "party loyal" was when Reagan ran for re-election as U.S. President, and it was the first year I could legally vote. I genuinely admired the man, and I've not admired anyone who's followed after, and I mean that in all sincerity.

(2) I am loyal to my country, and I respect the office of president, but this does not mean I have to like the president himself or what he says. This is why congress is there, to help curb some of the things that the general public objects to. Bush has possibly been given, the means by which to become a dictator in his own right. I think I would rather have a suave, well-spoken, well-read puppet president in office who at least made the U.S. look good to the world, than one of the more ignorant men to have risen from the sludge and slime to go forth and make us look like a country full of imbeciles. I'm not stating to whom I refer or if I refer to a real person, because of the simple fact that big brother is actually...everywhere...and it's not paranoia anymore.

(3) If a friggin president wants a blow-job and it helps him do his job better, and everyone involved is a willing participant, then for crying out loud who the hell cares and quit wasting my tax money on trying to find out who does care. At least the last president was able to coast his way through without this much actual harm to the country. I think it's okay to have sex, but apparently there are a few who've taken office that seem to think sex doesn't have to exist, and maybe they'd be a little happier and think a lot clearer if they'd get over saying have all the babies that you can and someone will raise them for you. Abortion does, in my opinion, sometimes have it's place.
I'd hate to see it outlawed again, and that is my opinion and I have every right to have that opinion.

(4) I have immense respect for the men and women who serve in the armed forces in any capacity selflessly giving their life and limb for whatever cause without hesitation. They deserve respect and honor if it's done under order, even if the person ordering them is a complete fool. The responsibility for the order falls on the higher ups in that case. This is of course assuming orders are being obeyed as opposed to sick whims that a loose canon might take upon himself or herself to do on their own.

(5) I believe in a well-fortified defense...get that...defense. That means if we are threatened...not the one's threatening...then we should be well-armed to show them not to mess with us. Them being whoever might be threatening.

(6) I do not believe we are supposed to be the world's boyscouts or superheros. If a country isn't asking for our help, then stop offering it when it's unwanted. Period.

(7) We are in fact...a republic...not a democracy. So I am just as confused as those who've posted here before in regards to why anyone would think this is a democracy.

(8) We are allowed here in the U.S. many more freedoms and the ability to earn more money, than many other countries on this planet. This does not mean we are truly free. We have opression here. Tons of it. The expressions "physician heal thyself" and "charity begins at home" are very appropriate in our case. Start here, and if we fix ourselves someday, then maybe others in the world will take note and do the same.

(9) I am an American by birth and therefore am proud of my birthplace. I see nothing wrong with being proud of the country you were born in, even in times of us appearing ridiculous to other countries. My goodness how does anyone survive adulthood if you worry over what everyone else thinks about you.

(10) I know we've done many of the same things in this country that we accuse other countries of doing. I'm not blind to this and it amazes me when it seems so much of the general population thinks we are some sort of innocent little country. We have detained people for no reason other than their ethnical appearance, just like those "other" countries who do the same. We also expect our laws to be obeyed by foreigners, but some of the U.S. citizens travelling and living abroad seem to forget that other countries and cultures have their own set of rules and ways of doing things. If we can do as we do here, they can do as they do there, whether it pleases us or not. It's shameful that torture happens, but in some cultures what we view as torture is just how they punish or interrogate. I hope to never know these things first hand, but I am a law abiding citizen myself.

Okay, I'm done with my speech, and will climb off the soapbox now to let the next speaker have a go at it.


"When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I've never tried before." ~Mae West



Posts: 580
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 31/1/2003 at 01:31 AM
I am not going to leave this with shouts of "You don't know me!" while the crowd chants "Jer-ry! Jer-ry!"... although I accept the blame for having set the tone for it by losing my temper. The problem here is that this is not an opinion poll, it is a discussion forum. We are not advancing articles of faith, we are debating the merits of logical propositions.

If you tell me that it is your opinion that we should go to war, there is nothing that I can say to that except to suggest creative places where you can stick your opinion. On the other hand, if you suggest that it is your proposition that we should go to war, then I demand that you provide premises that are both necessary and sufficient to validate that proposition. There is a world of difference between defending your position and the pigheaded refusal to concede a point.

Further, there is no difference between a discussion that occurs in person, on the telephone or online. Unless I am speaking to a computer program, a fundamentalist, or a particularly self-absorbed brick, I expect the rules of discourse to apply. I think that a feature article describing what actually constitutes reasoned discourse might be in the works.



Extreme Fanatic

Posts: 618
Registered: 27/9/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 31/1/2003 at 02:06 AM
Just to be certain that I was not contributing in an inappropriate manner to this particular forum, I've looked up a few words in a dictionary. I wanted to be certain in case I was being accused of ignorance, which I may or may not have been being accused of, that I was indeed making a contribution falling within the proper realms of definitions of certain words. More for my own piece of mind than anything else.

For everyone's enjoyment the following are a few definitions in full according to one copy of Webster's Dictionary:

"forum" - the public place meeting in ancient Rome, where the law courts, public offices, etc., were situated; hence, a place of public resort, or court of law.

"debate" - to contend for in words or arguments; meditate upon; deliberate together: to argue or discuss a point; reflect: contention in words or argument; controversy; discussion.

"discourse" - speech or language; conversation; a treatise or dissertation; sermon: to talk or converse; utter: communicate orally.

In essence, I gave a "sermon" (albeit written as opposed to verbose) in which I "reflected" on some points in a "discussion" in a "place of public resort". Appears I met the guidelines. *whew...sigh of relief*


"When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I've never
tried before." ~Mae West


Extreme Fanatic

Posts: 897
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 31/1/2003 at 04:35 AM
As for Bush or Hussein being Hitler, I don't have much of an opinion because I, admittedly, am ignorant. Same goes for war.

Neither Bush nor Hussein are the anti-christ. They're human. They do some things right, and other things wrong. Personally, I think Bush is a fanatic and Hussein is an asshole. And Hitler was a lunatic. All potentially dangerous in their own ways.

But just because something is dangerous, doesn't mean it should necessarily be obliterated. Hey, after all, life is dangerous. I suppose we could all lie in bed and be safe, but then, who knows? The roof might cave in.

Personally, I lean to the thought that we should attack Iraq only if they break their agreement to disarm. They WERE ordered to disarm after Desert Storm, weren't they? Being a parent, I feel it's important to follow through with threatened disiplinary action.

But I also admit that I am very far from knowing all about the situation, so I hold my opinions lightly.

I don't see what America's past mistakes have to do with this. I'd hate to have all my screw-ups shoved in my face everytime I had a decision to make. Unless, of course, I was repeating my mistakes.

What I do have an opinion about is that a person should not be berated for holding a different opinion. A person should not be berated for not knowing something. If instruction is necessary, then instruction can be given. But not with a sledgehammer. That's just inviting blind resistance. I consider myself a pretty reasonable person, but even I can get pig-headed when someone's putting me down while enlightening my ignorance.

Mono, I have a huge amount of respect for you and your opinions. You do your research, and I think that's very commendable. But in this forum, your tone drowned out your point. And I think that's sad.

I know I could research the situation more. Perhaps I should. Perhaps I would think differently. But it doesn't seem to me that it matters much what my opinion is. I don't have a lot of say in the matter. I don't even vote. I have been so sickened by politics and politicians that they all leave me with such a bad taste in my mouth that I refuse to vote for any of them. Besides, I don't have time for research.

So I'm left with my main feeling about the whole Iraq thing, the desperate hope that my favorite cousin in the Army doesn't get sent out there. Am I selfish? Almost certainly. Oh well.

I DO think that America is going overboard with this anti-terror thing. But how far overboard? I don't know. Anyway, I'm glad I'm not the president. That must be a horribly stressful job in these days, and I'm sure Bush feels it, whether we feel he's making huge mistakes or not. He's human, not the devil incarnate.

Anyway, I gotta go!


"You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest of girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"



Posts: 522
Registered: 6/7/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 31/1/2003 at 05:10 AM
Agreed with the first paragraph and the last sentence of the second M. As for rules of online discourse, I am content with the ideas that no racist remarks (personal attacks) or purposely offensive remarks to another person should be used in my debates. I guess one could add in the rule of ďno stupidityĒ but that varies *sometimes* from eye to eye and whatís clear to you is clear to you.

Donít really see myself as a self-absorbent brick, more of a nihilistic concrete wall. *laughs and grins*

- Good speech Starlight.





HREF="http://www.pathetic.org/library.php?i_memberid=2042"> />

size=1> but at least you know, just how much pain there is in living


Extreme Fanatic

Posts: 856
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 31/1/2003 at 10:36 AM

1. When it comes to Chemical or Nuclear threat...assumptions ARE death warrants.
2. Lately I don't think wiping out shitloads of people would be cool...I know thats weird coming from me, but shit...as often as my opinions flip-flop, this one's kinda' persistant lately. They suffer as much propaganda-fed knowledge as we do...
3. I don't like Saddam, at all...maybe thats propaganda's influence, whatever. I believe America should do a spot, third-party, mostly-untraceable assassination of the guy.
4. I like Bush, I'm glad I'm not in his position and I truly believe he is doing what he feels is right...however, if he's going to do something, I wish he'd just do it.
5. I, personally...am tired of seeing these threads...can't we just dig up and extend the old one?
6. When it comes down to daily life...who the fuck cares?
7. When it comes down to global life...why the fuck do we care?
And that isn't meant as obnoxiously as it may seem.


In the valley of the Goats, the Goat Fucker is King



Posts: 293
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 31/1/2003 at 11:16 AM

Kay heres my little rant...

Im not saying North Korea is like hitler and the nazi regime or anything.. but.. um.. have any of you people seen the footage of the North Korean troops goosestepping? I think thats kind of scary. But sadly this is a country who offers food to you if you join the 'force.

As for the rest of the arguments going on here with hitler/bush argument.. To quote Ironboots "I partially agree that Bush is not Hitler. For one, Bush is too dumb." You cant really say if you know the level of the presidents intelligence or not. I might agree with you on that factore, but i cannot because i cant tell wether his actions and his words are his or somebody elses. He's a smart one alright when it comes to money. thats for sure. He finding ways to make it look like he's doing something good with the cash, but rather it seems he wants the rich to get richer and the poor to get poorer.

Have any of you noticed that the poverty level, unemployment level is alot of more severe now, then say.. oh i dont know, the great depression? Do you know what bush's answer is to this situation? he is going to give tax cuts to people that make over 250k a year. thats right folks the rich dont get taxed because they are rich. and whats his excuse?? So that they can put the money twards thier small businesses for people to people to have more jobs. Have these people with thier so called "tax cut" Put money twards thier businesses? Absolutly not! oh no no no. They have put that cash twards crummy little investments.. things that wont do shit for the econemy. Not only that.. he wants more SUV's to be purchased. no taxes on those either ladies and gentleman... why? because they use more OIL.. more GASOLINE!!! if more oil and gasoline is used.. all the more reason to go and get on hussiens back.. fuck.. the mans got greys desiese fro christ sakes.. he's gonna be hell bent on attacking iraq no matter what.

I also heard something about him wanting all the troops to save thier sperm if they do indeed go off to war. If this indeed is true, Then i can identify him with hitler because hotler made his troops have sex with the lot of the women in germany before they went off to war. this is scary.

this is a scary time because this country is being lead by a very dangerouse person.

I cant say hes a smart man, I can say he's concieted... i can say he's money grubbing and selfish... I can say he's going to get us all killed...


"Thou shalt not be afraid of the dark, nor of graveyards nor ghosts nor the devil, for thou art scarey and mean." -The Goth commandments



Posts: 293
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 31/1/2003 at 11:21 AM
wooo! bad typing. sorry about the awful typos.. i wrote that out pretty quick..


"Thou shalt not be afraid of the dark, nor of graveyards nor ghosts nor the
devil, for thou art scarey and mean." -The Goth commandments



Posts: 580
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 31/1/2003 at 01:54 PM
Starlight: I was not referring to your contribution. It was fine as far as I could tell.

Schizo: I'm sorry that my tone offended you, but your comment only addressed "opinions" again. If what I or anyone else proposes is valid, then it will be justifiable no matter what tone it is presented in. I don't care about "opinions". I care about critical analysis. Defending "opinions" is a waste of everyone's time, especially if you have established that your opinion is not going to be changed. (You have not personally done that, but I have seen "debates" here conclude with words like "Well, yes, that's all true, but I don't care.")

Dolo: I am not entirely sure what you were trying to say here.

Court: Don't worry about typos, we all make them. The only problem that I had with what you wrote was raising an alarm over the goose-stepping and the enticements used by the North Korean Army. Goose-stepping is a pretty widely used military marching formation (not here) and doesn't really indicate anything. Also, they lure people into the military with bait everywhere in the world. Here, they use college tuitions and recruiters who will promise you everything up to a movie deal if you sign on; in North Korea, they use the promise that you will remain fed. It's sad, but it happens.

Alone: As I said to Schizo, if your argument is logically consistent and stands to reason, it doesn't make any difference if you use intentionally offensive language or not. Civility dictates that we not try to offend one another, but that has nothing to do with critical debate. We do not have to be civil to be correct (unless you are trying to be "politically correct". I am not.) You do not "win" a genuine argument by shouting down your opponent; the only way one "wins" a debate is to demonstrate the flaw(s) in their opponent's argument. If we are able to enlarge our understanding through critical discourse, we are all "winners". If, on the other hand, we try to adjust the facts to suit our "opinions" instead of the other way around, we are definitely losers. If it can be demonstrated to me that I have engaged in fallacious thinking (it has happened), I am prepared to amend my conclusions accordingly... and I expect others to do the same. Otherwise, all of this becomes nothing more than an exercise in stupidity.



Extreme Fanatic

Posts: 893
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 31/1/2003 at 02:34 PM
Monolycus: From your comment to Schizo, I realize why you were so uptight. You and I have different ideas of what the definition of 'argument' is, and that got a bit in the way. I believe that an argument is just a statement of one's opinion with good facts behind it. By my definition, Alone's post was a good opening argument. She/He stated her position and gave reasons why. I don't see how it could be a -bad- argument...

Either way, you know (or should know) that I do not support this war in the least. Its ridiculous to attack for oil/revenge (which is what it boils down to), and I know that this could very well end up killing us all (because of something Saddam does in reaction to the US threat).
There is quite a balance of opinions here, Mono. And if I and others here have a closed mind, then its our loss. We're just having an exchange of ideas. Not an opinion-changing forum.

Court: Exactly! (except for the part about the economy. I don't think its -that- bad (akin to the Great Depression).



Posts: 522
Registered: 6/7/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 31/1/2003 at 03:12 PM
Agreed Court. We do have the tools to start a new line of vehicles that use other sources of fuel, the oil companies however donít want to lose business. Avarice is the root of all evil, no?

Agreed M but Iím not going for the ďwinĒ in a debate like this. More or less, Iím going to see how other people react to a opposing idea, offensive or not. I think I can say that this condition has been satisfied, although the output of the argument was not what I wanted to see...but it happens every so often here.

- Iím not trying to be politically correct...political correctness, ack, thatís when a guy gets fired from his job at a funeral home for using the phrase ďgod bless you and god bless AmericaĒ during a military funeral. They didnít want to offend Jews or Muslims...yes, I swear to god that is a true story. It gained some momentum around here.

- heh, I think itís safe to assume that most here do not approve of PC.







size=1> but at least you know, just how much pain there is in living



Posts: 293
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 31/1/2003 at 05:28 PM
hey monolycus,

"The only problem that I had with what you wrote was raising an alarm over the goose-stepping and the enticements used by the North Korean Army. Goose-stepping is a pretty widely used military marching formation (not here) and doesn't really indicate anything."

I think its a leee-ttle bit strange that the footage they show on television of the korean troops, are them.. goosstepping in large groups... I didnt say they were the ONLY group of people using that form of march.. but i tend to think its a little scary that footage scene on television of a country threatening us, looks like a symbolism of the past.

And yes, the military does indeed bait people. I am aware of this. but i was only stating that i think its sad that people have the choice of either starving or joining the military for food.

Not jumpin on your back.. just clearing some things up..

And ironboots, its not that bad? You should pay more attention...


"Thou shalt not be afraid of the dark, nor of graveyards nor ghosts nor

devil, for thou art scarey and mean." -The Goth commandments

<<  1    2    3    4  >>  

 Home | Articles | Galleries | Forums | Site Info | Web Links | Reviews | Register 
All logos and trademarks in this site are property of their respective owner. The comments are property of their posters, the rest © 2001 by VibeChild.com Add shmeng_syn to your Live Journal Friends List. If you have a website check the webmasters section - You can get this site on your Palm Pilot using This link - By using this website, you are agreeing to abide by our Terms of Use. If you are a bot thinking of spamming members, get your email addresses here
Buy Viagra Without Prescription
Buy Vigra Without Prescription
Buy Viarga Without Prescription
Buy Cialis Without Prescription
Buy Clomid Without Prescription
Buy Levitra Without Prescription
Buy Propecia Without Prescription
Buy Kamagra Without Prescription
Buy Accutane Without Prescription
Buy Zithromax Without Prescription
Buy Amoxil Without Prescription
Buy Zovirax Without Prescription
Buy Deltasone Without Prescription
Buy Topamax Without Prescription
Buy Lexapro Without Prescription
Buy Flomax Without Prescription
Buy Flagyl Without Prescription
Buy Synthroid Without Prescription
Buy Inderal Without Prescription
Buy Tenormin Without Prescription
Buy Keflex Without Prescription
Buy Diflucan Without Prescription
Buy Lasix Without Prescription
Buy Celebrex Without Prescription
Buy Doxycycline Without Prescription
Buy Zocor Without Prescription
Buy Premarin Without Prescription
Buy Celexa Without Prescription
Buy Norvasc Without Prescription
Buy Hydrochlorothiazide Without Prescription
Buy Nexium Without Prescription
Buy Cytotec Without Prescription
Buy Misoprostol Without Prescription
Buy Neurontin Without Prescription
Buy Levaquin Without Prescription
Buy Zyprexa Without Prescription
Buy Astelin Without Prescription
Buy Zetia Without Prescription
Buy Diclofenac Without Prescription
Buy Antabuse Without Prescription
Buy Arimidex Without Prescription
Buy Phenergan Without Prescription
Buy Paxil Without Prescription
Buy Differin Without Prescription
Buy Nizoral Without Prescription
Buy Valtrex Without Prescription
Buy Plan B Without Prescription
Buy Fosamax Without Prescription
Buy Diovan Without Prescription
Buy Betapace Without Prescription
Buy Reglan Without Prescription
Buy Rhinocort Without Prescription
Buy Cozaar Without Prescription
Buy Accupril Without Prescription
Buy Septilin Without Prescription
Buy Zyrtec Without Prescription
Buy Aldactone Without Prescription
Buy Benicar Without Prescription
Buy Flonase Without Prescription
Buy Atacand Without Prescription
Buy Hytrin Without Prescription
Buy Ditropan Without Prescription
Buy Rumalaya Without Prescription
Buy Prinivil Without Prescription
Buy Medrol Without Prescription
Buy Revia Without Prescription
Buy Naltrexone Without Prescription
Buy Parlodel Without Prescription
Buy Atrovent Without Prescription
Buy Aciphex Without Prescription
Buy Zelnorm Without Prescription
Buy Motrin Without Prescription
Buy Avandia Without Prescription
Buy Tetracycline Without Prescription
Buy Epivir Without Prescription
Buy Lamisil Without Prescription
Buy Sinequan Without Prescription
Buy Levlen Without Prescription
Buy Levonorgestrel Without Prescription
Buy Anafranil Without Prescription
Buy Seroquel Without Prescription
Buy Acai Without Prescription
Buy Micardis Without Prescription
Buy Aleve Without Prescription
Buy Claritin Without Prescription
Buy Nimotop Without Prescription
Buy Toprol Without Prescription
Buy Colchicine Without Prescription
Buy Cipro Without Prescription
Buy Tofranil Without Prescription
Buy Zanaflex Without Prescription
Buy Tizanidine Without Prescription
Buy Remeron Without Prescription
Buy Cardura Without Prescription
Buy Femara Without Prescription
Buy Provera Without Prescription
Buy Desyrel Without Prescription
Buy Imitrex Without Prescription
Buy Famvir Without Prescription
Buy Clarinex Without Prescription
Buy Buspar Without Prescription
Buy Lotensin Without Prescription
Buy Exelon Without Prescription
Buy Combivent Without Prescription
Buy Ventolin Without Prescription
Buy Diabecon Without Prescription
Buy Cymbalta Without Prescription
Buy Prilosec Without Prescription
Buy Omeprazole Without Prescription
Buy Flovent Without Prescription
Buy Noroxin Without Prescription
Buy Glucotrol Without Prescription
Buy Plavix Without Prescription
Buy Glucophage Without Prescription
Buy Bactrim Without Prescription
Buy Myambutol Without Prescription
Buy Dostinex Without Prescription
Buy Aricept Without Prescription
Buy Actos Without Prescription
Buy Lukol Without Prescription
Buy Rogaine Without Prescription
Buy Ampicillin Without Prescription
Buy Lamictal Without Prescription
Buy Retin Without Prescription
Buy Lipitor Without Prescription
Buy Chloroquine Without Prescription
Buy Arava Without Prescription
Buy Adalat Without Prescription
Buy Strattera Without Prescription
Buy Cleocin Without Prescription
Buy Relafen Without Prescription
Buy Crestor Without Prescription
Buy Maxalt Without Prescription
Buy Singulair Without Prescription
Buy Allegra Without Prescription
Buy Protonix Without Prescription
Buy Vermox Without Prescription
Buy Estrace Without Prescription
Buy Coumadin Without Prescription
Buy Advair Without Prescription
Buy Diamox Without Prescription
Buy Coreg Without Prescription
Buy Avapro Without Prescription
Buy Leukeran Without Prescription
Buy Prevacid Without Prescription
Buy Requip Without Prescription
Buy Zantac Without Prescription
Buy Erythromycin Without Prescription
Buy Zyvox Without Prescription
Buy Prednisolone Without Prescription
Buy Amaryl Without Prescription
Buy Actonel Without Prescription
Buy Evista Without Prescription
Buy Vantin Without Prescription
Buy Starlix Without Prescription
Buy Luvox Without Prescription
Buy Abilify Without Prescription
Buy Depakote Without Prescription
Buy Lozol Without Prescription
Buy Xenical Without Prescription
Buy Lotrisone Without Prescription
Buy Betnovate Without Prescription
Buy Risperdal Without Prescription
Buy Methotrexate Without Prescription
Buy Wellbutrin Without Prescription
Buy Mobic Without Prescription
Buy Altace Without Prescription
Buy Augmentin Without Prescription
Buy Effexor Without Prescription
Buy Nolvadex Without Prescription
Buy Biaxin Without Prescription
Buy Detrol Without Prescription
Buy Zyban Without Prescription
Buy Elavil Without Prescription
Buy Lioresal Without Prescription
Buy Allopurinol Without Prescription
Buy Lanoxin Without Prescription
Viagra pills canadian
Buy cheap viagra online now
Buy viagra usa
Buy viagra online no prescription
Canada viagra generic
Canadian women viagra
Viagra online without a prescription
Overnight viagra
Cheap viagra usa
Cheap viagra 100mg
Cheap viagra onaline
Viagra 50 mg
Cheap viagra no prescription
Best price viagra
Buy cheap online viagra
Viagra canada
Cheapest prices viagra
Generic viagra online
Viagra pfizer online
Viagra pills
Lowest price viagra
Viagra for sale
Canada no prescription viagra
Buy viagra in usa
Viagra generic
How can i buy viagra online
Buy viagra in canada
Buy viagra no prescription
Canadian viagra online
Overnight canadian viagra
Buy viagra online
Female viagra pills
Discount viagra online
Canadian generic viagra
Generic viagra canada
Cheap canadian viagra
Viagra low price
Viagra canada online pharmacy
Buy viagra online now
Viagra price comparison dosage
How get viagra
Generic viagra overnight
Viagra buy online
Generic viagra price
Viagra how fast does it work
Buy discount viagra
Viagra buy viagra online order viagra
Viagra online
Cost viagra online
Viagra in canada
Viagra online deals
Purchase viagra
Purchase viagra overnight delivery
Viagra for women
Cheap viagra now
Buy viagra
Viagra price
Cost of daily viagra
Viagra brand online
Viagra tablet weight
Viagra buy
Buy viagra on line
Viagra paypal
Viagra no prescriptions
Buy viagra online canada
Viagra online canada
Cheap viagra without a prescription
Buy cheap viagra
Viagra delivered overnight
Buy viagra online usa
Viagra soft tabs online
Buy viagra uk
Cheap viagra pills
Viagra drug
Viagra online no prescription
Generic viagra professional
Order generic viagra
Natural viagra
Buy viagra online wthout prescription
original brand viagra
Buy viagra professional
Low price viagra
Best viagra price
Buy cheap canadian viagra
Next day viagra
What is viagra professional
Viagra from canada
Levitra vs viagra
Buy cheap viagra usa
Viagra lowest price
Generic cialis canada
Cialis generic
Cheap canadian cialis
Cialis 100 mg
Cialis low price
Canadian generic cialis
Cialis pills
Best price cialis
Cialis canada online pharmacy
Cheap cialis usa
Buy cialis 20mg
Buy cialis online now
Cialis price comparison dosage
Canadian women cialis
How get cialis
Generic cialis overnight
Cialis buy online
Generic cialis price
Cialis how fast does it work
Buy discount cialis
Cialis buy cialis online order cialis
Cialis online
Cost cialis online
Cialis in canada
Cialis online deals
Buy cialis online no prescription
Purchase cialis
Purchase cialis overnight delivery
Cialis for women
Cheap cialis now
Discount cialis online
Buy cialis
Cialis 5 mg
Cialis 50 mg
Cialis price
Cost of daily cialis
Cialis brand online
Cialis tablet weight
Cialis buy
Buy cialis on line
Cialis paypal
Cialis no prescriptions
Buy cialis online canada
Cialis online canada
Cheap cialis without a prescription
Buy cheap cialis
Cialis delivered overnight
Buy cialis online usa
Cialis soft tabs online
Buy cialis uk
Cheap cialis pills
cialis drug
Cialis online no prescription
Generic cialis professional
Order generic cialis
Natural cialis
Buy cialis online wthout prescription
Buy cheap online cialis
original brand cialis
Buy cialis professional
Low price cialis
Best cialis price
Buy cheap canadian cialis
Next day cialis
What is cialis professional
Cialis from canada
Levitra vs cialis
Buy cheap cialis usa
cialis lowest price
Buy cialis online
Cialis pills canadian
Buy cheap cialis online now
Buy cialis usa
Canada cialis generic
Cialis online without a prescription
Overnight cialis
Cheap cialis onaline
Cheap cialis no prescription
Cialis canada
Cheapest prices cialis
Generic cialis online
Cialis pfizer online
Lowest price cialis
Cialis for sale
Canada no prescription cialis
Buy cialis in usa
How can i buy cialis online
Buy cialis in canada
Buy cialis no prescription
Canadian cialis online
Overnight canadian cialis
Female cialis pills