First to get this out, to the people who want to resist the war, rebel or
whatever, believe what you want, talk won´t settle the terrorists till we
are all dead and the war machine is about to go. To the people who spit on
our soldiers for fighting, I only wish that you could be there, picking up
the body parts at Ground Zero, soaking in the sorrow from that day. We have
a right to be angry and need to destroy terrorists, not for our safety but
for the safety of millions of lives around the globe. You want to be
different and follow those fuckheads at The Church of Euthanasia, it´s your
life, have fun but just know there are men and women who are dying for your
rights to choose your Church, to say what you want to say and to live where
you live.
- Ok, I got that out. I may be flamed for that but it´s your time spent
typing those angry words, I won´t continue that argument nor lose
any of my two hours of sleep over it. I already spoke about this before in
here.
Ok? So please keep the flames to a minium and keep cool.
Again there is some more anger brewing with the upcoming war. Before we
start to sling four letter curses at eachother we should calm down a bit.
Now, I want to talk about something. Evidence is now showing that the FBI
could have prevented 9/11. Why didn´t this happen? Politics in the FBI
offices and grudges.
Yes, grudges.
I suggest you look at this, I saw this show tonight and it really goes in
depth with this.
What’s my point from all this? The FBI squabbled with eachother because of
one maverick’s way of doing damn good work. I see that right now our nation
and the world itself is squabbling over war, justifying death blah, blah,
blah. I am trying to understand other people’s views about war, especially
here, even if it doesn’t seem like it. To those who are angry and follow
propaganda everywhere, keep cool when talking to others about this.
Thanks.
To those of you who think that war is murder please belive that all you
want, be my guest. But if you think the war on terrorism is bullshit, then
you need to be affected personaly by it. My best friend Cooper´s mother
died in Tower #2. Now seeing him depressed and angry, that is not a
combination that i like to see in a Marine. He volunteered to go to
Afghanistan and went and i havent from him since. So when a terrorist
comes into your favorite place to hang out strapped with C4 and kills some
people you know, will you think that the War Against Terrorism is BS, i
think not. Any day of the week i would go with my Marines to the front
lines and be there Medic with out thinking twice. And to those of you who
do shun the military, please do us all a favor and move to Canada, there
atleast you will be amoungst yellow bellys like yourself.
____________________ "Roses are Red, Violets are Blue. I'm a schizophrenic, and so am I".
Comedian
Fanatic
Posts: 213 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 3/10/2002 at 10:27 PM
Technically, murder is prematurely destroying the reactionary centers of a
nervous system, or destroying another part of the body that ceases the
ability to react to stimuli. So, technically, doing anything besides
shitting and breathing is murder. And god knows how toxic your turds
are.
Murder, in my humble opinion, is never wrong. It should rarely be a first
resort, however.
Sailor I´ve said it once I´ll say it again I don´t envy your job one
goddamned bit and I am ever grateful to the military men and women who
cover my non military rule hating ass every inch of the way.
The war on terrorism is a joke, that is, with the way george jr is going
about it. I don´t like the politics involved, and it reeks of political
posturing than actual true blue eradication of organizations that are a
danger to the whole world, not just us.
I don´t like seeing people get hurt, but I´m not a pacifist either. If
innocent people get hurt in the country resposible for the terrorists, then
that´s their own goddamned fault for putting their innocent people in
harm´s way. THEY are the bastards using their civilians as human
shields.
I hear so much self hatred in this country...we did this and we did that
and it´s all our fault. Well if you weren´t IN this country you hate so
much you wouldn´t be able to SAY that. The people in those buildings and
the pentagon and the planes didn´t do shit. They didn´t deserve this.
They had no part in anything our governments did to each other. If you
wanna blame the government then FINE...do that, write letters, make
petitions, raise your voice. But don´t take the pisswatery stance on
blaming your citizenry guilt on the dead. Shame on those who do. Shame on
them.
As for the war with Iraq....*sigh*
As I see it, it´s a way to distract the american public. Okay, we can´t
find the real bastards, so lets put our attention on a bastard who we
already know where he is. Everyone hates sadam, right? It´s a clever
diversion, a way to make the public think our politicians are in control
when they are not. You think we´d "win" in a war with Iraq? Bet your ass
we WON´T. Sadam recently made a trade with russia. Oil for tanks.
Russians make some of the most ass kicking motherfuckin´ tanks on the
planet. Now Iraq has them. Sadam has already said that he will NEVER
again engage in desert warfare. That´d be stupid. Head to head urban
combat. No fancy weapons. No tricky techniques and gadgets, just guns and
blood against people who´ve got little else to lose but their lives.
People with nothing to lose are next to impossible to defeat. And why
exactly are they proposing war anyway? Oil? Money? "Power"? I don´t
fucking get it. One minute it´s "Down with the taliban! Stop terrorism!
Saftey First!" and now it´s all about saddam? WTF?! I´ll be goddamned if
I´ll stand behind a fat man´s war. No way. I won´t look down upon our
boys and girls in uniform, doing their duty to a government right or
wrong...it´s not their fault. I find it filthy that capitol hill rich men
would put their lives on the line to fatten their wallets while claiming
it´s for freedom.
____________________ Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
Comedian
Fanatic
Posts: 213 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 3/10/2002 at 10:41 PM
Quite honestly, Osama, if he actually did orchestrate acts of terrorism, is
more than likely dead by now. Kidney failure is rough enough without
having to dodge shrapnel.
I just don´t see why we all can´t sit down and listen to some Sugar Hill
Gang. Said a hip, hop, a hibbit, a hibbit to the hip hip hop and you
don´t stop a rockin´ till the band down..
____________________ Make way for the bad guy!
MorteAscendo
Member
Posts: 190 Registered: 6/5/2002 Status: Offline
posted on 3/10/2002 at 11:36 PM
But one thing you have to realize...you are seeing it from a totally
"civilian" view. Sure after the bomb raids on Afghanistan where done, we
turned our heads to the next terrorism supporter Sadaam. This is the WAR
on TERRORISM, he supports them, we should eradicate him. Its not JUST an
excuse to invade, an excuse to do what Operation Enduring Freedom is all
about. If we dont deal with it now, it will just get worse and worse. Who
gives two shits and a fuck about tanks. Tank artillery cannot stop nor hit
a fucking loaded A-10 or F-18 or an type of bombing plane. Good luck with
the slow moving armored pieces of shit. Sure Russia makes a good
tank...but what good are they if we dont send much ground support. They
take our planes and crash them into our buildings, We will take our planes
and bomb the shit outta them. And in my opinion, there are no
non-combatants if they support IRAQ. Fuck´em all and them them burn.
This Sailor send with upmost respect for peoples opinions and views.
-Morte
____________________ "Roses are Red, Violets are Blue. I'm a schizophrenic, and so am I".
Xaoswolf
Fanatic
Posts: 463 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 4/10/2002 at 07:02 AM
Bettie, I know you fear for our boys in the field, and beleive me, nobody
really wants to see harm come to an american soldier. But the truth is,
they signed up to die. That is their job, given, they are supposed to try
their damnedest not to, but, they aren´t trained to use handgrenades for
nothing.
If you wanna talk about political wars, look at Jersey, if you want to talk
about terrorists and weapons of mass destruction, then look at the Middle
East.
____________________ Sometimes I dream about dinosaurs shopping for cargo shorts at the Gap.
Does that make me a bad person?
dead-cell
Fanatic
Posts: 344 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 4/10/2002 at 09:06 AM
I agree with Bettie. However destorying Sadam would be great. In my opinion
I think we should wait, stratagize a little more. We have just gotten
Afganistan. It would be a better idea to make some of the middle east
countries into allies. I saw an interveiw with Iran citizens, and many of
the college students support the U.S. This is why I think we should wait a
little while longer. Wait until our allies numbers increase. Then strike a
huge blow to Sadam. But wait what if Sadam attacks first? He has been
building chemical weapons for years. Simple we keep him busy with
inspectors. Instead of what we have now we send them in when ever we feel
like it. Sadam well be to busy hiding his weapons to care about what were
are planing. Every time we think he is poised to attack, we send the
inspectors desmantel what ever we can find. Then he will have to rebuild
wait for the timing to be right, and we do it to him again. All the time he
knows one slip and we would be the first to strike. Maybe a three prong
plan to keep him distracted would be better.
____________________ co-worker: "Your gay!?"
myself: "Didn't you see my rainbow pin?"
co-worker: "I just thought you liked skettles."
-(yes, it actually happened to me)
Xaoswolf
Fanatic
Posts: 463 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 4/10/2002 at 10:05 AM
Inspectors???
Do you realize just how much of a joke they are. Do you really think that
a group of what, 12 people tops are going to find when they walk around in
Iraq, I´ll tell you what they´ll find, everything that Saddam wants them
to. Even with a thousand inspectors, we´ll never find his weapons plants.
The only thing that inspectors are good for is when Saddam gives up, and
shows us his weapons, then they can oversee the dismantling of said
weapons.
He has told previous inspectors that places were off limits. And when a
Represenatie went to Iraq to give a speech, he was offered to look at a
suspected Weapons plant. When he told them that he would have no idea what
to look for and would rather not, they confiscated his camera, and put him
back on a plane home.
Saddam would much rather have the inspectors running around on his leash
than have US troops "inspecting".
____________________ Sometimes I dream about dinosaurs shopping for cargo shorts at the Gap.
Does that make me a bad person?
Merry_Widow
Fanatic
Posts: 598 Registered: 24/8/2002 Status: Offline
posted on 4/10/2002 at 10:19 AM
Frankly, I´m amazed that parts of the Middle East haven´t been turned into
giant parking lots that glow in the dark.
I know I´ve been getting what the media wants me to hear, but I still don´t
think Bush is doing a bad job. I´d much rather have him in office,
bickering with the UN, than have someone like Gore who would have bent over
and apologized for our buildings getting in the way of the planes.
Saddam needs to be taken out. He doesn´t just have Russian tanks, he has
biological and chemical weapons, and he has demonstrated his willingness to
use them. He is a dictator who supports terrorists, and as such, the bitch
needs to be smacked down.
Yes, it is a civilian point of view...and if a war can be avoided, then
that is the side I´m on. I know that it is inevitable that it will end up
in war. But also from a civilian point of view I haven´t heard any
conclusion to the taliban/al qiada (spelled?).
I´ve read newspapers and come away with nothing, no black and white
explanation as to WHY we are now going after Iraq. I hear reasons from
years ago that should have been taken care of then...and I hear "new"
reasons..basically that he´s a bastard (what else is new) and fucks with
our oil imports. A lot of this is oil and power in addition to the same
reasons we got into it with him before.
Morte as you know I am far from a pacifist. There is nothing I would like
better than to find the fuckers and wipe them off the ass of the earth. I
am suprised too that the whole middle east hasn´t been reduced to a big
glass skate rink that glows in the dark. Luckily they haven´t.
The inspectors are a joke, and what will they do if the DO find something?
Out of the blue saddam just decides to let them in with no conditions?
Bullshit! Somethings up.
I do fear for those in the military. I also fear for my family, myself,
and others. This whole situation reeks of WWIII. I don´t like the idea of
that one bit. With nuclear arms and biological weapons out there, I get
nervous. It could hit anywhere. We had an anthrax scare at my work....an
employee found a bag of ours with a pack of cigarettes in it. To decide
wether or not to throw it out or hang onto them for the owner, he opened
them up and white shit went EVERYWHERE. I figured it was either cocaine or
a hoax, but it was fucking scary. I had underage employees working at the
time...employees that I was responsible for. My lead sales had been
covered by it. I had customers walking in and out and there wasn´t a
damned thing I could do except call the fire department, lie to my
customers, and wait for the results.
With something so minor, it really really puts me on edge to think how
possible it is that next time it will be something worse.
I just want it over. I don´t want to think about the attack or the future
ones, but we all have to if we have any hope of a future.
I guess reading too many nostradamus books when I was little made me a tad
paranoid...but just because you´re paranoid doesn´t mean they aren´t out to
get you.
____________________ Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
DarkTigress
Member
Posts: 104 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 4/10/2002 at 01:23 PM
I used to be one that were totally anti-war... I even opened a discussion
here before saying that USA shouldn´t attack Afghanistan... but after some
time, I changed my views.
I still believe that war is murder, cause fact is that war is murder. But I
believe that it is sometimes necessary... Usama Bin Laden did and have done
lots of horrid and unhuman things, and he should be punished... I believe
that very much. But at the same time I try to not really take one side too
strongly. If someone I knew would have died in any of the terrorist attack,
I´d be more than happy to see the f*ckers dead, mutilated body (excuse the
language)... but also, if anyone I knew died because they straved to death
or got sick and didn´t get help with medication from the rest of the world,
or they happend to live in Afghanistan near the bomb-targets, I´d be pretty
pissed too.
All I wanted to say with this meaningless message was that no killing is
justified, which goes both ways.
But now Usama murdered thousands of people, and he should be punished for
it... that´s all I wanted to say :roll:
____________________ ~The World Can Continue It's Excistence Without Mankind... But What Happens
To The Mankind When The Earth Is Gone?~
I´d be more pissed at the regime that intentionally puts it´s innocent
civillians in harms way. Which is what those governments do.
I´m sure I´d be quite a bit more vehement and bloodthirsty if I´d been eye
witness to the attack..to see all those people jumping from 80 stories up.
If I´d lost some one. But we all did. We lost 5K people, all civilian.
5K people that we may have met later in life, loved later in life, cared
about later in life. It didn´t just impact americans, it was around the
globe...loved ones in other countries posting the names and descriptions of
relatives or loved ones that live here, or were on vacation. I was on a
european based messageboard and there was one forum opened for people to
post the names and descriptions of people that were missing since the
attack.
Even from europe, there was a list several several pages long. Parents,
siblings, children, other relatives and friends.
I also heard it compared to pearl harbor...that we knew about it and that
we let it happen anyway...a "sneak attack"...one that flung us full on into
war. Know why it´s worse than pearl harbor? More dead, more out of the
blue, and in "peace" time...and it´s the only mainland attack on US soil.
They hit us on our home field, and for a lot of people here it was a wakeup
call. We´re not so safe, we´re not so untouchable.
It´s not so much that bush is an idiot...he is, and it´s kind of funny and
kind of cute in a dumb animal sort of way...there´s just something else
about him, something in his eyes, just the FEEL of him that makes me edgy
and nervous and uncomfortable.
We´ve had dorky gumpy presidents before...lyndon johnson was a horrible
clutz...regan had his finer moments...none were BAD...but Jr just creeps me
right the hell out. Like mabe the idiot is a facade.
I dunno. Like I said, I´m just too paranoid for my own good.
____________________ Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
Sticupus
Fanatic
Posts: 254 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 4/10/2002 at 03:31 PM
The level of lack of knowledge hurts me. People who are ill-informed and
undereducated having strong view points, and expressing them unjustifiably.
Why? Don´t you understand what it is to take a life?
In war you usually take the lives of strangers, people you have never met.
Sure a gun makes it sound easy, but think about using a knife. That is a
bit traumatic isn´t it? How many stabs do you think it will take? Will
they die right away? What about hands? Really try to think about killing
someone with your bare hands. Now you have never met this person, you do
not know their personal views, what their family is like, who they are,
what their favorite thing to do is, or even what their favorite color is.
However, you have a chance to be in a more intimate situation with that
person that only their mother has been able to have a similar experience.
Lets say you wrap you fingers around their neck: you knuckles turn white
from force on his neck, of which your adrenaline and rage are responsible.
He is angry too, and also tries to grab for your neck, but you GET FUCKING
ANGRIER, and push all of your weight down on his neck; smothering his
pathetic fucking attempts of taking your life. You are in control, he is
going to pay for what he stands for and all that he has done, all of the
people he has wronged. You clench your teeth, they grind as you angrily
look into his eyes. ´STOP IT! STOP FUCKING MOVING!!!!´ you think. His face
has been turning progressively redder, his rage in his eyes is as great as
yours, yet the way he is drooling and struggling is starting to become
frantic. You smile now, he is looking really ridiculous. "DIE YOU FUCKING
NIGGER/JAP/CHINK/GOOK/RAG HEAD/NAZI/FAG/JEW/COMMUNIST/SPIC/TERRORIST!!!!!"
He starts convulse more, but it is becoming easier to control him. How long
has it been? Seems like 10 minutes to me. He takes his focus off you, and
looks past you, urging for seizure of his current situation. He stops
trying to grab you, and starts to weakly tap you, as if trying to say "Ok-
play is over." because he has never been this far, never this close
before. He looks at you again, this time scared, but only for a second. His
whole body is going weak now, easier to control, much easier. In fact he is
now becoming so limp that it is difficult to keep your posture, you have to
move to accommodate so you may keep your grip. You have a sense of relief
and satisfaction when he finally takes his arms off your shoulders and lays
them at his side. He looks like he is going to pass out, but he is STILL
FUCKING TWITCHING! He won´t stop, he should be dead by now!... His face has
a ridiculous expression on it now, mouth lightly accented by salivated
foam, and his teeth are smeared with a hint of exquisite blood. You move
your hands away in amassment, insight has just struck you, he is dead! Why
is he heaving? He should be still! Just like on TV! Why did it take so
long? Did it? What am I doing? What have I done? Fuck him, he deserved
it.... Right?/Yeah damn right he did! He- just him, killed 1000’s of
people! He is responsible for the pain and suffering of many! He has
wronged us! HE IS A FUCKING MURDERER!
look at your hands
____________________ The OBOLISK is Divine.
Sticupus
Fanatic
Posts: 254 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 4/10/2002 at 03:35 PM
You may murder as many as you want. I will murder none. I am above you and
always will be. I will not become you. I am a pacifist.
____________________ The OBOLISK is Divine.
AloneSoul
Fanatic
Posts: 522 Registered: 6/7/2002 Status: Offline
posted on 4/10/2002 at 04:25 PM
(Note: I know I contradicted what my first post on this thread had stated,
let’s keep cool but the insults have again arrived, in a form I had not
anticipated..)
Again you’re following the same pattern.
Believe what you will but saying that you are ABOVE the people who are
FORCED to fight and die for your right to live is arrogant and offending.
Do you think that all these people wanted to be taken away from their
homes, families, friends, jobs, lives?
I’ve seen my friend die before my eyes, I know what death looks like as
have many people in this site. I’m not talking about TV, in my mind, in a
game or a movie either. We are not ignorant to what reality is so please do
not assume that.
I am still willing to go and fight against zealots who have greatly wronged
a peaceful religion, using it as a reason to kill whomever they please. How
about we send you over there to talk it out? You will probably be
decapitated like Mr. Pearl was. You think talking peacefully will work?
Look at history, peaceful philosophers felt the wrath of the people.
To say that peace solves everything is to live in a fantasy land. I’m sorry
but that’s not reality. Again you’ve insulted many people by clamming some
sort of dominance with your ideals. We are all animals, we all have to
fight and kill to survive. We all have killed one life form or another.
A animal, a vegetable *if you eat only vegetables you still are taking the
life of that vegetable*, a tree *paper, even recycled it came from a tree*
etc. You have taken a life just to survive so don’t give me any of that
“look at your hands” crap! You are not a god, you are not some messiah, you
are not some evangelists nor being a “pacifist” will make you one. Face it,
you are a human, we bleed the same, we breath air and we think
independently.
Before humans came to this planet there was violence. Other animals can be
even greater savages over territory, family, food or just for the hell of
it. The world may be coming to a end, we atleast have to fight that
somehow. Even in the Christian bible a peaceful Christ will fight the
Devil.
Perhaps one day, when people finally realize that we are all the same,
there will be a everlasting peace. We will not disarm though, violence will
still be in our lives because life is a struggle for survival. We all have
gone threw that struggle, we may not want to see it again, we may shun it
with big words and condemn those who are angry about it but it will always
be there and we will have to fight, one time or another.
- I am not asking you to change your way of thought but ATLEAST give
respect to where it’s due. Those people are damn good people out there in
those fucking deserts, those fucking forests, those fucking hills and
fighting does not make them any less of a life form.
If you are angered by my words, forgive me.
I still haven’t been satisfied though about one of my original inquiries,
should the FBI have a serious overhaul? They could have prevented 9/11 but
childish bickering had stopped the people from working together. Again I ask to take a look at this link. The Man Who
Knew.
Even pacifism is murder. Innundation of cultures has proved to be more
murderous than anything else- with the withdrawl of English forces at
Ghandi´s protest, the Indians went back to alying eachother by the millions
for no reason. Ghandi has a better track record for murder than Stalin and
Hitler combined with a little bit of Alexander thrown in for sport.
And, I have said this before and will say it again-- promoting a
consumerist lifestyle is the ultimate act of violence one can commit
against any poor nation. Saturation of a culture with cheap shit only goes
further towards destroying the culture and creating greed amongst its
members and thus creating classist attitudes, destroying all rule and
ultimately resulting in rebellion over the ruling culture, creating turmoil
for endless years and fnally, when the nation recovers we have to go to war
with it over commercialization. Russia, Africa, India, the Middle East,
Philipines, Thailand.. All victims of our exporting commercialism and
capitalist thought to nations who could not afford the concepts. And you
want to promote pacifism.
Why? because then you can blame the leaders of other nations for treating
their people like shit, eating the weak and being animals to eachother
until we act, and any deaths we incur on the population are vile and evil
and murder?
Fuck that. Fuck this filth. Fuck it all!
You want to know why this war had to happen? Because they were too damn
rich from the oil. The culture cannot survive with signifigant amoutns of
exportation, so they can afford to do things the most innappropriate and
stupid ways. Same thing in America with Christians-- only we create enough
revunue selling ourselves our own shit that we won´t even be able to react
when we turn into the American Empire. If they were a poor nation the
culture would not survive-- it´d get exported for a while for a bunch of
rich kids on lavender hill somewhere to get all horny and steamy over and
maybe get a retro movement a few years later. And then they´d be suckling
off the tit of cheap capitalism as well, 7 middlemen to wrap one package
increasing cost to the consumer and draping their traditions in shit
consumer holidays to keep companies alive and functioning, while all they
can export is cheap labor and low taxes to try and bring the factories to
their countries so a few members of the population can have jobs and try to
support some of their people.
FUck them all! Fuck it all! Fuck you! Fuck them! Fuck alla this shit!
____________________ Make way for the bad guy!
Sticupus
Fanatic
Posts: 254 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 4/10/2002 at 05:43 PM
I admire the one that can take a life, for they are truly greater than I. I
do not feel worthy of taking a life- I am not a god.
No one is forcing those ´good souls´ to fight, they as you said, signed up.
Also, what if this escalates out of hand? Then there may be a draft and
people will be required by governmental intervention and ’forced to fight’.
This does not have to be true however. If every army sat down, crossed
their arms and said "I will kill no more." war would end. If every person
said "I will murder no one." and acted on that pledge, Murder would no
longer exist.
As for fighting terrorism: "One man´s terrorist is another man´s
revolutionist." said someone at a time. These ´terrorist´ are just as
passionate about their cause as you are to yours. You say "they should be
eradicated", they say the same about you. It becomes a double sided coin;
no one has justice, no one has brought true pride to their cause. It is
like two elephant seals beating each other on a beach. Soon they both
become covered in blood and perceive to be one writhing mass of senseless
carnage.
Yes, I eat food, food made from another life form. Yes, I need it to
survive. But humans are different, we have so much potential. Sometimes it
may not seem so.
Human beings are sentient. That has never happened to any other species
before in the history of the planet, and it may never happen again. We
should try- just maybe- to see where we can go with our wonderful rare
qualities. The outcome may just be better than any war can produce.
We have the capacity to resist murder, and use our minds to benefit rather
than to eradicate every threat.
The terrorists in the September 11th incident were suicide terrorists. What
does this mean? They are all dead. There is no one to punish for these mass
murders. No one individual. Osama Bin Laden financed a good majority of
this attack, however it was considerably cheap. Muhammad Attah was the ring
leader of this attack, he knew more information than Osama ever could have.
The reason why the media jumped to the conclusion that Bin Laden was
responsible for the attacks was because of his strong influence over the
first bombings of the world trade center buildings in 1993. Of course
because I am one person, and have not lived through any of these events
first hand (like 99.999999999999999% of the world population) I cannot say
these are true facts as any ´facts´ given by the media. But these are the
ones I trust.
Muhammad, like the rest of the terrorists on those planes, are dead. They
have SUICIDE in their act of horrible massacre. It is unfortunate, but
there is no one to truly punish for it. Again they are DEAD.
Who are you going to punish? Rebel Islamic groups that may never have done
anything, but have the potential to? These are people with an opinion, a
very destructive opinion I believe, however it is just a thought. I wish
they didn’t think this way. Just like you, I wish I could show them
something beautiful, worth nurturing rather than worth destroying. But
these people are willing to destroy their lives to support what they
believe. Yes, that is again difficult to handle, difficult to change. I
cannot solve all problems: but i ask, what is wrong or disrespectful with
having the compassion and love of life and humanity to try?
A country didn’t attack the U.S., an army didn’t either. A group of people
with a thought did. So who in this group do you seek revenge in? The
enactors of the incident you are ‘involved’ in are dead. There is no one to
punish justifiably.
So lets say you are not seeking revenge on these people but rather you are
looking at eradication for prevention. Who do you kill?
As you know Islam, like all other religions, is not a country or race. It
is an organized group of people yet not one with a controlling government,
but a silent god. Al-Quida, the terrorist organization ‘behind’ the
September 11th attacks are like a Religion. Just like a religion it is not
a feature on the body, a country, or a race. You cannot look at a group of
people and truthfully say “They are Al-Quida.”. You can only justifiably
kill those potential terrorists that admit they are with a terrorist
organization.
Now lets say you have crudely chosen a group of people and call them
potential terrorists. You eradicate them. Now look and reflect on
yourself. Who is right here? Yes I know, they ’were going to get you’ but
you killed them before they could make any action. There was only a
potential. So where was the threat you were so afraid of? The threat has
been executed.
-But wait, that threat against humanity is YOU! That isn’t justice, you
have become your own worst enemy. A random psychopathic murderer, a person
that seek out to kill groups of people that go against you and threaten
your existence and way of life. And in this act you have destroyed their
existence and way of life. You are now that “Terrorist“.
And remember Oklahoma was enacted by ex-military men. Men of the U.S. Army
and U.S. citizens.
Are you planning on killing a few Americans to protect the American way of
life from potential American terrorists?
Your words do not offend me at all. Your words frighten me. They remind me
of the mindless beast that humanity can be.
Murder is wrong, whether if it is in the name of country, God or self. The
only life you have the right to take may be your own.
If humanity isn’t good enough to use its given mind, and isn’t good enough
to live to its potential, then may there be a war so great not one soul is
left standing. Let the animals take roam again, killing as they need to for
living to their own potential, rather than to destroy themselves.
As for your thoughts, remember what a great, terrible man once said...
“How fortunate for those in power, that people do not think.”
-Hitler
____________________ The OBOLISK is Divine.
Sticupus
Fanatic
Posts: 254 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 4/10/2002 at 05:52 PM
Pacifism is not capitalism Comedian. And Fuck capitalism; I know its
evils.... And Eb, honey.... Gandhi isn´t responsible for 70,000,000+ deaths
like Stalin and Hitler.... In fact he tried to starve himself in protest to
that fighting, which was Hindus against Muslims- another horrid mindless
religious fight (my favorite flavor....). When the fighting stopped, he was
pleased, but only for a while because he was soon after assassinated.
You get so cute when you are mad. :-D
____________________ The OBOLISK is Divine.
AloneSoul
Fanatic
Posts: 522 Registered: 6/7/2002 Status: Offline
posted on 4/10/2002 at 09:34 PM
“No one is forcing those ´good souls´ to fight,”
But those in divisions are ordered to go. Yes, they did sign up but some
had to, they had no other choice in life.
If I am drafted I will gladly go to fight for this land.
“If every army sat down, crossed their arms and said "I will kill no more.”
war would end.”
That’s not bloody likely.
You want to know why they want us dead? We have freedom. We have freedom of
choice, freedom of speech, freedom of religion and they fear that. They
want to control EVERYTHING that we have and strike fear into us. And when
we move into the Middle East to prevent new Hilters, feed the poor, stop
genocide, to save our oil supplies etc, they get worried and shit their
pants.
Those terrorist bastards have brutally mistreated their own people. They
will stone to death a women if she takes off her veil and lie with every
breath they take to their people. They spread false propaganda, refuse any
dissident or independent thought. They raise their children the same way
the KKK or any racist group does, to hate different people and destroy
them.
They found their cause, we are it. We have freedom and they don’t like
that. From freedom they see only a coating of sins, so they will destroy it
with every chance they get.
Human beings are like all animals. Dogs, cats, dolphins, whales, all forms
of life are sentient. For Christ’s sake the deer knows when wolves are
coming to kill it, the alligator protects its young with every chance is
has and feeds them...even the Earth itself shows a sort of sentience. If
it’s abused *like it is* plagues, famine take control and fault lines move
with great vigor. The atmosphere by many is considered to be a living life
form.
My point? All these beings hold the same ability to resist murder. We are
simply more advanced in our thoughts...even if it doesn’t seem like it.
Bin Laden financed the terrorist groups and had more to deal with 9/11 than
you’d think. He and many others were responsible for that day and frankly
THAT ALONE is reason enough to go over there and put a few bullet in their
heads. Now Iraq itself may be helping them, Iraq also is a threat to oil
and Iraq holds weapons of mass destruction. *biological and soon nuclear* 1
+ 1 + 1 = 3, that’s too much of a risk.
We should stop the threat before it starts. We had the chance with Al
Qaeda, to prevent 9/11 and possibly this war but we didn’t. We fucked up
because of childish altercations /power trips and now we reaped what our
sloth/avarice has sown.
You’re right that percentage is off. Don’t forget the bombings in Africa
and the murders from Al Qaeda all over the Middle East. *and don’t forget
other terrorist groups*
What if these simple “radical people” had started a genocide? What if Al
Qaeda had gotten their hands on a nuclear device and some third world
country hand supplied it to them? World War Three may either start or never
start depending on how fast we/others act.
There is someone to punish (Al Qaeda for one), any other terrorist bastard
who tries to strike against anyone which never deserved it. I for one will
NOT sit on my hands with those people trying to murder the world.
Again I say that rebel Islamic groups with the POTENTIAL to repeat these
actions are a threat enough. Once we PROVE they are going to strike, then
that’s the call for action. About three or four years ago you may have been
saying the same thing about Al Qaeda.
A threat is a threat.
If they wanted to express their opinions then they could have done it in a
peaceful way but they didn’t. And frankly, America has been SHITTED on over
and over again for trying to feed the poor, stop genocide and other things.
Yes, we HAVE screwed up but noone is perfect.
“I cannot solve all problems: but i ask, what is wrong or disrespectful
with having the compassion and love of life and humanity to try?”
“You may murder as many as you want. I will murder none. I am above you and
always will be. I will not become you. I am a pacifist.”
The way you expressed yourself is why.
About those “small groups of people” who don’t have a “big Army.” That
doesn’t really matter, one man can press a button which will set off a nuke
a level a whole city. One man can gas a subway with nerve gas and kill 12
people. One man, with a few other SINGLE men can fly planes into our
buildings and murder thousands. One man can murder and destroy like a army
can.
“The enactors of the incident you are ‘‘involved’’ in are dead. There is no
one to punish justifiably.
So lets say you are not seeking revenge on these people but rather you are
looking at eradication for prevention. Who do you kill? - Now lets say you
have crudely chosen a group of people and call them potential terrorists.
You eradicate them. Now look and reflect on yourself. Who is right here?
Yes I know, they ’’were going to get you’’ but you killed them before they
could make any action. There was only a potential. So where was the threat
you were so afraid of? The threat has been executed.”
“As you know Islam, like all other religions, is not a country or race. It
is an organized group of people yet not one with a controlling government,
but a silent god. Al-Quida, the terrorist organization ‘‘behind’’ the
September 11th attacks are like a Religion. Just like a religion it is not
a feature on the body, a country, or a race. You cannot look at a group of
people and truthfully say ““They are Al-Quida.””. You can only justifiably
kill those potential terrorists that admit they are with a terrorist
organization.”
See above.
“-But wait, that threat against humanity is YOU! That isn’’t justice, you
have become your own worst enemy. A random psychopathic murderer, a person
that seek out to kill groups of people that go against you and threaten
your existence and way of life. And in this act you have destroyed their
existence and way of life. You are now that ““Terrorist““. ”
You’re just twisting everything around and not making sense. We do NOT go
around killing everything in sight...not without reason and EVIDENCE. We
have enough evidence to invade Iraq and certainly enough evidence to wipe
the floor with terrorist groups. Christ, if we went and killed everyone in
sight and then start death factories THEN we would be no better than
terrorists/ the Nazis. We made that mistake by imprisoning the Japanese
after Pearl Harbor. We will NEVER make that mistake again. Our
constitution, our government, our citizens won’t stand up for that shit
again.
From what you’re saying, American soldiers are the same as the SS. That’s
another insult.
- Your words startle me. They remind me how lazy and ignorant humans
are.
Now I will quote myself again since you went alittle off topic.
“- I am not asking you to change your way of thought”
Murder is wrong but it’s unavoidable with life. Death is a way of life. I’m
sorry, that’s reality.
And about the biggest bastard of them all, Hitler, he had power but he
refused to think rationally. His belligerent, unimpressionable, inabilities
to cooperate with his fellow man caused his own downfall.
The world is filled with that.
Our purpose in life is to live life, live with ourselves and live with
others. I won’t become cynical in this specific conversation and say that
our purpose is to mate, reproduce and further our own species. (so to
anyone thinking that, don’t bring it up.)
We are part of the animal kingdom, if we become extinct and the animals one
day reach the level of intelligence we have, they will most likely make our
mistakes.
Now time for my point.
Enjoy your freedom as a American, your freedom to express yourself and live
in that home. It was paid for in blood.
You don’t like the way life is then go live in a log cabin, somewhere in
the mountains with no outward communication.
- If I could, I would but I can´t. I was forced in this life and now I have
my own goals/people which need me. I won´t turn my back on them nor turn my
back on my duty if the time calls for my action.