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AloneSoul
Fanatic   Posts: 522 Registered: 6/7/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 3/10/2002 at 09:29 PM |
First to get this out, to the people who want to resist the war, rebel or
whatever, believe what you want, talk won´t settle the terrorists till we
are all dead and the war machine is about to go. To the people who spit on
our soldiers for fighting, I only wish that you could be there, picking up
the body parts at Ground Zero, soaking in the sorrow from that day. We have
a right to be angry and need to destroy terrorists, not for our safety but
for the safety of millions of lives around the globe. You want to be
different and follow those fuckheads at The Church of Euthanasia, it´s your
life, have fun but just know there are men and women who are dying for your
rights to choose your Church, to say what you want to say and to live where
you live.
- Ok, I got that out. I may be flamed for that but it´s your time spent
typing those angry words, I won´t continue that argument nor lose
any of my two hours of sleep over it. I already spoke about this before in
here.
Ok? So please keep the flames to a minium and keep cool.
Again there is some more anger brewing with the upcoming war. Before we
start to sling four letter curses at eachother we should calm down a bit.
Now, I want to talk about something. Evidence is now showing that the FBI
could have prevented 9/11. Why didn´t this happen? Politics in the FBI
offices and grudges.
Yes, grudges.
I suggest you look at this, I saw this show tonight and it really goes in
depth with this.
The Man Who Knew.
What’s my point from all this? The FBI squabbled with eachother because of
one maverick’s way of doing damn good work. I see that right now our nation
and the world itself is squabbling over war, justifying death blah, blah,
blah. I am trying to understand other people’s views about war, especially
here, even if it doesn’t seem like it. To those who are angry and follow
propaganda everywhere, keep cool when talking to others about this.
Thanks.
____________________
 but at least you know, just how much pain there is in living
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AloneSoul
Fanatic Posts: 522 Registered: 6/7/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 9/10/2002 at 07:54 PM |
Is there really a political out there who hasn’t
A) Made their campaign blaming entertainment for “corrupting the
impressionable minds of our ‘innocent’ youth.”
B) Had some sort of sexual scandal?
C) Had some sort of extortion scandal?
D) Lied repeatedly to the public, raised taxes, drove around without a
licence using government vehicles and or did some other crime?
E) Acted like any other Joe Average would and lied about it, claiming they
are a beacon of perfection for all others to follow?
F) Done something not mentioned here that would be thought as "wrong?"
G) Done all of the above and or more?
Politics is riddled with corruption and people are buying it with picket
signs supporting their avatar of choice. It’s sad to see people letting the
TV control their thoughts. *sighs*
Avarice is the root of all evil.
[Edited on 10/10/2002 by AloneSoul] ____________________
SRC="http://www.rpgclassics.com/shrines/snes/ff6/images/characters/kefka.gi
f">
size=1> but at least you know, just how much pain there is in living
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Monolycus
Fanatic  Posts: 580 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 9/10/2002 at 05:57 PM |
Comedian is right on the money here... damn it. The fact is, that while
the system is inherently corrupt, and the people playing the game are
inherently corrupt, there is absolutely NO CHANCE that an honest person can
compete well enough to become elected. In order to become an elected
official, you have to sling mud, stab backs, accept pay-offs and have no
compunction about trashing your opponent. People always ask why we have no
honest politicians... there is your answer. They are "dealt with" by
people who don't play fairly. I have said this before... career
politicians are by their very nature evil. If they were not, they would
not be successful enough to make it where anyone could see them. They
might begin with the best of intentions, but if they do not play the game
as the majority do, they will be eliminated by one method or another.
I think the same way about rich people in general. One does not become
rich by working hard and saving their money. One becomes rich by
inheritance or exploitation. Either way, they do not merit their "worth".
A rich politician is, by definition, an evil bastard who should be
eradicated for the good of humanity. But hey, those are just my feelings.
 I
am
that endless reservoir of optimism,
~Monolycus.
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Comedian
Fanatic  Posts: 213 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 9/10/2002 at 05:29 PM |
| The road to power would corrupt you so thoroughly you would forget you ever
were an independent, Ironboots. No one gets throught he political meat
grinder without realizing that they are just human, and a quiet .22 in the
back of the neck one lone sunday night is your fate for fucking with the
triumvirates. Forget the Templar; fear the Doctors. ____________________
Make way for the bad guy!
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Ironboots
Extreme Fanatic   Posts: 893 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 8/10/2002 at 01:52 PM |
Wouldn´t it be nice for one of us to masquerade as a certain party, play
their game, and get elected. Then -poof- you declare yourself an
independent and unfurl your own agenda...
And could you drag the brown-noses in your party with you to your banner?
:roll:
I´m not sure if it´d be -that- hard to cover the nation with military. If
there was a draft, no problem. But of course, if these people were drafted
and not hardened soldiers, they´d most likely be sympathetic to the people
they´re supposed to be ordering around and it would fail anyway.
*unrolls a clean $1 bill for Bettie´s party* I hope the bouncer is a
pushover...  ____________________
Piggy's got the Conch!
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 7/10/2002 at 11:12 PM |
I realise that, but it´s not impossible if the shit hit the fan. Like I
said, blame dean koontz for filling my head with paranoia...but just
because you´re paranoid....you know the rest.
As for the frog pot...they´re raising the temperature every four years.
We´ll all be frog soup in a matter of decades. The dinner party will be
hosted in my bunker. Invite only!
ps- I take bribes. ____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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Monolycus
Fanatic Posts: 580 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 7/10/2002 at 06:08 PM |
Morte is absolutely correct... formal declaration of martial law would be
impossible to maintain as well as giving the people a tangible enemy. They
learned this lesson at Kent State. After FEMA (Thanks again, Ron), we
don´t need formal martial law to keep people in line anyway. The system is
in place to give the executive branch all the power it wants without firing
a shot at anybody.
Bettie is also right... an angry nation stripped of its way of life would
be a problem for das überclass. But there ARE ways of enslaving a people
without stirring everyone up (Think of the frog in the pot of water...
raise the temperature one degree every few hours and you can boil the frog
without having him hop out of the pot). Let´s look at what we have.
Politicians have not had our trust for a long time now. Whenever elections
roll around, they know how to push all the right buttons to give us the
tiny glimmer of hope that is enough to get us to cast a vote for them, and
then we slide back into our broken and apathetic habits. They have us
believing that there are only two political parties and that it is outside
of our power to effect real and substantive change. They know exactly how
we work and play us like cheap fiddles all the time. Part of the game is
NOT hiding what they are doing (all you have to do is throw the label
"conspiracy theory" on something and you can plaster it on the front page.
People will believe in a professional wrestler but not a conspiracy "nut").
Declaring formal martial law is imprudent and wouldn´t get them what they
wanted anyway. Why jam a hook down the fish´s throat when you can convince
the fish that he wants to put it there himself? ____________________
"I believe that woman is planning to shoot me again."
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MorteAscendo
Member   Posts: 190 Registered: 6/5/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 7/10/2002 at 03:18 PM |
Martial Law is the absolute last resort. That is taking powers away from
the President. Think about, have these hard core generals and what not
running things, and having jar headed Marines with loaded M-16s running
around our back yard. That is not what this country needs, and plus, it
wouldnt happen everywhere, there is not enough military to do that.
Martial Law is something that no leader of this country wants, it creates
panic and scare, it makes the situation at hand even worse. It brings the
war home, and that is what we are fighting against right now.
And thanks Boot, i couldnt think of anything eles. hee hee ____________________
"Roses are Red, Violets are Blue. I'm a schizophrenic, and so am I".
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 7/10/2002 at 02:42 PM |
Doesn´t politics always set a nasty prescedent? If the US does go to war,
I really feel it will be the end for our country the way we KNOW it. The
people will be seriously unhappy, and perhaps some of the blows land over
here. In times of crisis they can declare martial law and the gov can
order the military and police to take over completely and our rights as we
know them will be *poof* gone. For an "unspecified length of time", which
by the time it´s "over" the people will never be the same, and the
government will no longer have their support and backing and most
importantly their TRUST. An angry nation who´s been stripped of their ways
of life can accomplish a lot.
Perhaps anarchy is a solution...not the way that most the kids today think
of it..you know, lord of the flies and all that shit. But the people will
take charge of their lives, and the government will be forced to answer.
It would be a rocky length of years, but no social change is ever smooth.
Perhaps there is no answer, because with the "me" generation taking it´s
foothold in society in a few years, nobody will ever be happy if it´s not
all about them. I can see it already.
ANd I know you weren´t aiming at me specifically, I was simply reiterating
a few points by myself and others that nobody seemed to want to see.
Is it possible to uh..cheaply ..MAKE an island? With a plastic bubble over
the top? Okay, scratch that.
My dad buys and sells heavy machinery and can get deals with people on
concrete and stuff....I"m sure a bunker would be cheaper.
I actually read something once in a home magazine...this couple bought out
this HUGE and totally abandoned underground military facility that used to
store nuclear warheads in the 50´s. It´s 100% radiation proof, blast
proof, and in times of crisis can be self sustaining ie: refiltered air,
water, it´s own complex septic system, and plenty of food storage units.
It was on unused government land. They bought it for something ridiculous
like 50 or 100 thousand dollars (well below the price of any home in the
state I live in)....they took out a larger loan and poured some more bucks
into it to make it look and feel "homey" on the inside, and the old nuclear
warhead bay the guy uses as a workshop for his ultralight business.
Talk about luck!
*searching for gov facilities for sale in the want ads* ____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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Monolycus
Fanatic Posts: 580 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 7/10/2002 at 01:49 PM |
Bettie: I wasn´t aiming that at anyone in particular (although it was
Morte´s "sick fuck" comment that stuck in my mind and prompted me to hop
back on the ´puter and lay it out there)... I just wanted to send out a
quick ping about the unchecked "patriotism". I defended Stic´s position
because he seemed to be the furthest afield here so far, not because we are
in the same camp (I guess politics really DO make for some strange
bedfellows!). All I was really saying is that the "United We Stand" media
virus is dangerous to democracy. When we are all 100% unified about ANY
issue, we will have lost the premise of being a democratic people.
I´ve also got a little of that Bertolt Brecht going through my mind... the
country that has no heroes is not as bad off as the country that needs
them. Just trying to keep things running on a fairly even keel.
Alone: I´m not sure why you would think it is "far fetched". This is the
country that brought you the Tuskeegee experiments, MK-ULTRA, the Bay of
Pigs, the highly orchestrated attacks (yes, that´s right, I came out and
said it!) of Pearl Harbor and the USS Maine, the suppression of the
indigenous peoples, and many, many more. Ask yourself this: Why dissolve
the FOIA and suppress independent investigation of the 9/11 event if you
have nothing to hide?
Ironboots: Hey, hey now! Let´s watch the Niccolo Machiavelli bashing!
*wink* Actually, The Prince was written to be taken ironically (like
Swift´s A Modest Proposal)... but it is also one that seems to be very
pertinent to current events. Kudos for the reference.
You are also right on the money about whether Hussein is building nukes.
It´s funny how we say he is "definitely" up to no good, and that we
definitely have no knowledge of what he is up to in the same breath. We
spent forty years of Cold War with an adversary who did have nukes... so
far, only one nation who has developed those kinds of weapons have actually
used them. (Hmm. Looks like our white hats might need to go to the dry
cleaners).
I agree that this proposed war seems to be little more than a smokescreen
just in time for elections. Just sets a very nasty precedent.
~M. ____________________
"I believe that woman is planning to shoot me again."
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 7/10/2002 at 10:41 AM |
I *think* they are going after saddam, holding him to such strict
regulations and scrutiny because he has, in the past, been an issue, and
has always sort of been there being a dick. I haven´t heard a flat out
"this is why we want to do this" from anybody on the news, in the papers,
or on the radio. Or perhaps I´m not listening as closely because I´m sick
to death of the round and round and round and he said she said yeah well
your momma crap that´s been going on since we ever laid toes in the desert.
I don´t think a "premptive" attack is justified...especially since bush is
trying to do it without congress! AND without the UN! I actually heard
something really funny on The Daily Show with John Stewart.
"Nuclear weapons, anthrax...jeeze, who´s this guy think he is? US?!"
There are some good people in high places that are outright protesting a
war with Iraq. I saw one of these on television this morning...scores of
people..some with the sentiment of NEVER going to war over anything, the
more moderate "think before you leap/probable cause" folks (which I´m more
inclined towards them), and others who just want answers.
The tactic they´re using on the american public is a sort of "hey look!
ELVIS!" and while we all turn and search for the king of rock and roll they
snag those few precious seconds or minutes to do what they REALLY wanna do. ____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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Ironboots
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 893 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 7/10/2002 at 09:18 AM |
Oooh... No internet access at home is pissing me off. Its so disappointing
to come here on monday and find that a kickass discussion here has budded,
blossomed, and reached a near conclusion already. Oh well...
Its still good for brain-food, I guess...
But I must side with the not-in-our-name people. Number one, what has
Saddam done to us? Sure, he invaded Kuwait, but we beat his ass back to
Bagdahd. Is he supporting terrorism? Is he making weapons of
mass-destruction? Who knows, really. Intelligence is sketchy at best, and
who knows what our government could be making up. Stretching the truth, at
the very least, is very likely. As for the weapons, who says he´s not
allowed to have them? Its his country. We have weapons of mass destruction.
Russia has ´em. India and Pakistan have ´em. China has ´em. And I´m sure a
whole bunch of other countries have them too. So who´s to say Saddam can´t
have them? And if you´re going to say its in a treaty somewhere, what about
GWB and the Kyoto protocol? That´s a treaty we´re not following... What
about the ban on missile defense systems? The United States doesn´t play by
the rules, why should Saddam?
Which is another point in the argument against war: We are the most visible
country to the rest of the world. We set the example. If we go after Saddam
because he -might- be plotting against us, then that gives liscence to the
rest of the world to take up their own agendas as well. India and Pakistan
can go at eachother, since they -are- threatening eachother. You can´t just
go around beating people up just because they don´t like you. Because after
you kill them, there will be more people to replace them. And -they- won´t
like you, because you´re a bully.
In my mind, Just Cause has not been established. And the reprocussions
could be greater than we anticipate. And as Bettie said earlier, this whole
thing reeks of politics. The elections for the Senate (or the house,
whatever) is coming up. Currently, the Democrats have the majority. They
were doing pretty good. Bush looks like a fool, Social Security is in the
dumps, a whole host of dirty business editorials in the news; people did
not like big business, and the Republicans that represent them. But then
Bush crying war and nobody is paying attention to Democrat-favorable issues
anymore. Bah on politics, I say. Darn you Machivelli...
I say all you should do is just remember. And wait. And when he makes it
plainly obvious that he´s a bad guy, -then- you can open your can of
red-white-and-blue whoop ass. Until then, I´m a skeptic.
I´d join Bettie on her island, but I don´t like mangos.
By the way, Morte, nice sig. ____________________
Piggy's got the Conch!
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 7/10/2002 at 12:51 AM |
Probably not so much radical thinking as purposefully closed eyes in the
name of one upping the other guy.
And for your benifit: ambassador..wait...em? am...no...am...that´s right
isn´t it? JEEZE! 
I found it very VERY coincidental that it happened in the first year of a
new (and not very respected/well thought of) president. I think it was a
test...a big fat horrid unfunny unfair test. A poke with a big big stick
to see if he´d dance, poke back, or lay down and die. With the 2K election
being a worldwide joke (the cubans offering to send in mediators to help us
sort it out....) it would, to me if I were a terrorist, PRIME time to
strike...when we´re all distracted, and when a seemingly befuddled fool
that nobody has any faith in gets PUT into office by a judge and not the
nation´s votes. Perhaps it was ignored by our own FBI for some purpose of
their own...I read too many dean koontz novels to ignore the prospect of a
shadow government ready to spring. It´s usually the most unlikely (like a
massive, deadly, tragic attack on the american mainland...something thought
to be impossible until over a year ago) that comes up to bite you when
you´re back is turned.
*sigh* shadow governments, egomania, foolish leaders and angry people.
Like I said.
Calling miss cleo.
Getting my lotto numbers.
Buying an island. ____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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AloneSoul
Fanatic Posts: 522 Registered: 6/7/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 6/10/2002 at 11:18 PM |
Radical thinking is what tore apart team cooperation. Stepping on toes, all
that jazz, covered it before. One thing that really pisses me off is that
the people in the FBI...and one other person, *i can’t spell correctly her
position, embasitor...* they weren’t even in the public eye of scrutiny
UNTIL the program I talked about so dearly showed on PBS.
I just can’t believe it still, that horrible day could have been
prevented...but the way things are turning out, it makes me wonder abit,
did some higher powers actually want 9/11 to happen? I know, it sounds far
fetched but my mind is working on over drive right now... ____________________
SRC="http://www.rpgclassics.com/shrines/snes/ff6/images/characters/kefka.gi
f">
HREF="http://www.pathetic.org/library.php?i_memberid=2042">
size=1> but at least you know, just how much pain there is in living
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 6/10/2002 at 11:02 PM |
Uhm, who called who names?
Nobody ever said stic isn´t allowed to have opinions or different beliefs.
Nobody said that everyone in the military are automatic heros. Nobody ever
said that differing opinions aren´t welcome.
I am personally extremely angered by the arrogant and narrow scope with
which certain people were automatically pidgeonholed as being a "murderers"
for simply disagreeing and having a different opinion...which they (and I)
have every right to be angry over. I deeply resent being lumped in with a
violent group by anyone who doesn´t know the first thing about me. I have
that right too.
As for me, the fact that I have repeatedly stated that everyone is entitled
to their opinions, that I´m not inclined to brainwash anyone or make them
see things my way, that I don´t want to see innocent people die any more
than the next person, that diplomatic is the favored way to go (even if it
is a tad bit unrealistic in my OPINION) has gone straight over several
heads...and I´m called an advocate of murder. Which is bullshit. They´ll
hear what they want to hear, it seems. SO why bother with a discussion if
nobody listens? Nobody has to agree, nobody has to "respect" others
stances, but there is a big difference between respect and being
respectful.
I believe to some extent this sort of thing IS what prevents government
agencies from doing business. Posturing, egomania, and selfimportance.
This is the last bit I have to say on the whole retarded deal. I would
like to get back to the discussion before the "other" thing was brought
back up. This is getting nowhere.
____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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AloneSoul
Fanatic Posts: 522 Registered: 6/7/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 6/10/2002 at 09:06 PM |
No need for thanks, heh, just tell´in em how I feel.
Flipping burgers...that´s something I could NOT do...end up stabbing
someone by the end of the day.
Mort, Bettie and M, I agree. People are entitled to their opinions, it
makes this country great but people should learn to respect eachother more.
United we stand, you know the rest. heh.
I wanna make a point though I´ve noticed in this whole discussion.
This whole arugment was EXACTLY the thing which created the social
boundries which prevented people at the FBI from working together in the
common interest of public safty.
Interesting no? ____________________
SRC="http://www.rpgclassics.com/shrines/snes/ff6/images/characters/kefka.gi
f">
HREF="http://www.pathetic.org/library.php?i_memberid=2042">
/>
size=1> but at least you know, just how much pain there is in living
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Monolycus
Fanatic Posts: 580 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 6/10/2002 at 07:03 PM |
This just in...
Stic is allowed to have whatever opinions he wants to have and calling him
names for having them is not going to win him over to your side. He isn´t
the only one here that thinks it does not make you a superhero just because
you do the job that you signed up to do (I wouldn´t spit in anyone´s face,
but don´t think I´m going to keep buying you drinks all night either).
Frankly, I think flipping burgers for a minimum wage that doesn´t pay the
bills is pretty damned heroic, and at least those guys aren´t breaking
their arms patting themselves on the back for getting up and going to work
every day.
Democracy is about having a voice, not about parroting back whatever the
majority just said. Representing an unpopular position takes a whole
different kind of bravery, Captain America. Differences of opinion keep The
US of A from being a fascist state. When you´re looking at the stars and
bars you slapped on the side of your pick-em-up truck, try to keep it in
mind that it represents people... and those people have all kinds of
different takes on things. The military is there to protect the citizens
of the US, not just the ones they happen to like or agree with. ____________________
"I believe that woman is planning to shoot me again."
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 6/10/2002 at 06:39 PM |
No need for thanks. The military does a lot for people that will never
ever say thank you.
That technology doesn´t do shit if their brains aren´t "50 years on the
future" too. Which they´re obviously not, as their heads are already
occupied being jammed in their asses.
I was aware of the dissoulution of the FOIA and the "civilian
surveilance"...recruiting workers that enter homes and work on telephone
lines and have access to privacy of ordinary people. Freaky shit, I don´t
like it, I have nothing to HIDE, mind you, but still NOT okay with me. Not
at all.
Patterns are emerging, obviously, and it´s disgusting. Disgusting that
they would LET this happen over pseudomacho posturing and rank calling.
Um, keeping open the terrorist attack files would "spark dissident"? I
think that act alone should spark dissident, and many many OTHER things.
Such as failing to do anything about it when they knew it was coming.
Their own shortcomings and sloppiness dealing with dangers. Their own
bullheadedness and dictator style subversive strangling of our right to
know what the hell is going on. I could go on....
I´m going to play that tri state powerball lotto and buy a fucking island. ____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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MorteAscendo
Member Posts: 190 Registered: 6/5/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 6/10/2002 at 04:44 PM |
I just sat here for an hour reading all that i missed over the
weekend...and seriously i grew sick...sick at Stic´s comments...but thanks
to Alone, bette, comedian and others i felt alot better...i cant believe
that if I ever came to your home town in uniform that you would spit in my
face you sick fuck...
but anyway...
I think that the FBI had a good idea that something was going to
happen...remember..their technology is supposed 50 years in a future...
:razz: ____________________
"Roses are Red, Violets are Blue. I'm a schizophrenic, and so am I".
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AloneSoul
Fanatic Posts: 522 Registered: 6/7/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 6/10/2002 at 11:24 AM |
USA PATRIOT act.
I´m still reading threw some of this.
- Many people don´t really want to worry about the "fine print" of these
things, they just want to have some satisfaction that our government is
"taking action" to combat the threats of our time... They just want to "eat
cheeseburgers and play the lotto." (Quote from Seven) Lead a simple life.
That´s how they can slip something like this. Give it a nice name, a pretty
package and unless you take a bite, you´ll never know it´s poisonous.
What´s starting to frighten me is "TITLE II--ENHANCED SURVEILLANCE
PROCEDURES: SEC. 202."
They already had adequate information to prevent terrorists attacks but
they didn’t. ____________________
SRC="http://www.rpgclassics.com/shrines/snes/ff6/images/characters/kefka.gi
f">
HREF="http://www.pathetic.org/library.php?i_memberid=2042">
/>
/>
size=1> but at least you know, just how much pain there is in living
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