IamSquid
Extreme Fanatic   Posts: 658 Registered: 27/5/2002 Status: Offline
|
posted on 6/4/2004 at 09:35 PM |
Feral: I would LOVE to see a Discordian (umm... preacher?) rolling apples
in an elementary school lunchroom. Although I'm not Discordian myself I
have to admit I think most of us would benefit by having a Discordian
around us whenever we're at school, at work, or generally in a situation
where people take everything too seriously.
Anya: I'm not saying that Xianity is the only fucked-up religion in the
world. ALL organized religion is form of conformity therefor brainwashing
therefore a cult! Xianity just happens to be the biggest one out there at
the moment and the #1 priority of the Xian Church is converting everyone on
the face of the Earth!
This means that Xians who read the Bible, interprit it as they will, and
generally think for themselves are probably not brainwashed and not
cultists. I have no problem with this at all. But Xians who make it their
buissness to assimilate the globe tend to be fucked-up cultists who pose a
threat a child's individuality if they're trying that crap at school.
If yoo want to raise yor kids Xian, that's entirely yor perogative, but if
I want to raise my kids to drench themselves in goat's blood and sodomize
their lovers with crucifixes yoo better recognise. ____________________
i wanted to die, and then it progressed into wanting everyone else to
die so i could watch, and then me die.
-ickgirl
|
| |
RavensSoul
Member   Posts: 63 Registered: 27/3/2003 Status: Offline
|
posted on 6/4/2004 at 08:59 PM |
I'm not sure where exaclty the articles on this could be found on the
internet. My parents don't get the newspaper anymore. Your best bet would
to look for stuff under the NEWS ENTERPRISE, because that is the E-town
paper here, I don't know how much of this the papers covered, it wasn't
even in my county. A lot of what I heard was from news reports on the
TV.
I wasn't trying to say that I'm anti-religion because, trust me, I'm not.
I'm all for people doing what they want and believing what they want as
long as they aren't physically hurting other people and as long as they
know that the consequences are theirs to deal with.
The thing about all this that bothered me the most is that these people
were going into the schools and saying whatever they wanted to these little
kids. It's like what Rayce said, they aren't old enough to know that they
don't have to listen to it and they could be scared shitless by what was
being said to them. It's completely different, most middle schoolers will
think enough, or are at least rebellious enough to not listen if they don't
want to, not believe it, or listen faithfull if its what they believe in. A
highschooler could just say "this is bullshit" and leave, because
highschoolers here can come and go *from lunch* as they please.
It's all about people having access to kids and the people who should be
watching these kids not knowing about it. Kentucky is full of fucking
pedophiles and child molesters and weirdos. Trust me, I've encountered a
few of them and have the emotional scars to prove it.
Also, I just wanted to say that I never meant to imply that religion in
school is being made manditory here. It's pretty much split down the
middle, the people who think it should be and the people who think it
shouldn't be, that there should be an alternative to make as many people
happy as possible. Thats why I suggested the class thing.
Sorry that's a lot of random babbling. It's late. I'm sick. and I just
dranka cup of coffee. ____________________
In my eyes, to be human is not to be able to live and die, but it is to
feel pain, love, happiness, and all other things that keep our hearts from
freezing over into the bloody ice that distinguishes man from the beasts of
night.
|
| |
Zero
Fanatic   Posts: 459 Registered: 15/2/2004 Status: Offline
|
posted on 6/4/2004 at 06:22 PM |
| Anya: i definately didn't think you were upset. i was just playing with
you, and as always it's good to read your opinions. ____________________
"It is a fool's prerogative to utter truths that no one else will speak." ~
The Sandman, Dream Country
|
| |
EyeCandyRayce
Fanatic  Posts: 247 Registered: 19/1/2004 Status: Offline
|
posted on 6/4/2004 at 02:49 PM |
I didn't see Anya getting upset at all. Just voicing her opinion and why
she had it. I have been enjoying a good debate myself.
I learned a long time ago that religion and politics are not things you get
into debates about. Those are things you get into fights about so I tend to
avoid picking any kind of side or voicing an opinion when it comes to
religion. All I will say regarding religion is I have found closed minded
people in all religions. I've found caring open minded people in all
religions. Who we are on the inside has nothing at all to do with what God
or Gods we believe in. An asshole is an asshole. If he/she didn't have
religion to use on you he/she would find something else.
My problem with the preachers going into schools is more concerning
childrens safety then anything. Safety being physical and mental. It is not
hard to scare the shit out of an 8 year old and telling them that
themselves or their family is going to burn in hell for all eternity is
pretty freaky to a kid. If it was a preacher I knew I wouldn't mind because
I would know what kind of stuff he is saying to my child. Is he teacher her
how to be a good person or a God fearing sheep? Plus there is the issue of
the safety of the children who are being encouraged to talk to total
strangers. ____________________
Suicide Hotline - Please Hold
|
| |
feralucce
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
|
posted on 6/4/2004 at 02:25 PM |
By law in the US... if they let those priests in, they HAVE to let in reps
of ANY other religious persuasion, including satanic, Discordian, etc...
Feral ____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
|
| |
Anya
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
|
posted on 6/4/2004 at 02:22 PM |
Pushing my buttons? Oh geez, give me a break.  I'm actually
laughing in amusement at the whole "Xianity" thing. It's one of the
biggest things that members of this site like to potshot...also seems to be
the thing that a good amount of people love to piss and moan about.
Granted, they may if they want to, but it doesn't mean that I wont point it
out when it gets redundant or play Devil's Advocate.
I'm not a Christian anymore, so you know Zero, but it's always good to poke
at all categories, even your own. It shows that I actually have a bit of a
sense of humor. 
People can look at me as grumpy if they want to, but deep inside, I'm just
laughing at their quick accusations.
[Edited on 4/6/2004 by Anya]
|
| |
Zero
Fanatic Posts: 459 Registered: 15/2/2004 Status: Offline
|
posted on 6/4/2004 at 01:22 PM |
we just seem to be pushing your buttons today, huh Anya?? 
i beleive myself to be Christian but i do not beleive i am, faith is a hard
thing for me to have. i do beleive in many of christs teachings but the
rest seems to discourage me from wanting to be apart of the religion. (or
any religion really) ____________________
"It is a fool's prerogative to utter truths that no one else will speak."
~
The Sandman, Dream Country
|
| |
Anya
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
|
posted on 6/4/2004 at 01:09 PM |
Just a little note: I'm not trying to say that Christians as a whole are
perfect. No one is perfect. I'm just playing Devil's Advocate to keep the
grounds as neutral as possible. 
Rayce: I thought about the main topic for a moment. I guess everyone has a
point as far as the Elementary levels go. I would beg to differ in the
older levels, though, when children can think at a different level. Just
had to review my psychology a bit...I suppose you had a point on the
younger kids.
Zero: I would not say so, but I suppose it depends on which
denomination...none of them seem to agree with the same interpretations,
just as certain Neo-Pagans think that Feminazi's (I call them Feminazi's
for they're Matriarchs, not Feminists) are hypocritical for excluding all
male energies. The main question for you would be - which part of the
Bible do you find more important, Christ's teachings or the Old Testament
brimstone?
|
| |
Zero
Fanatic Posts: 459 Registered: 15/2/2004 Status: Offline
|
posted on 6/4/2004 at 12:58 PM |
| i beleive myself to be Christian, and i beleive in tolerance for all
religions....but then again when i hear of a woman being stoned to death
because she was beleived to be promiscuous and their religion calls for it,
i become a complete and total hypocrite and only in that moment am i proud
of my hypocrisy. ____________________
"It is a fool's prerogative to utter truths that no one else will
speak."
~
The Sandman, Dream Country
|
| |
Anya
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
|
posted on 6/4/2004 at 12:39 PM |
Maybe it's in their doctrine, but I am sure that there are many other forms
of "destroy the opposition" doctrines...or at least orally. Our societies
of today are products of conquering nations. It's a fact.
quote:
Xianity especially is
one of the most bigoted hypocritical religions on Earth.
Perhaps the fundamental Bible thumpers have a lot of bigots, but I can also
point out die-hard environmental Pagans following the same lead...just to a
different extreme. Yes, you rarely hear of it, but it's there. You have
the ones that preach about how bad oil is for the environment, yet they do
not mind jumping in their cars and littering their cigarette butts on the
grounds. Then there are the ones that piss and moan about how evil
Christians are, yet are committing the same, prejudiced acts when they find
out someone is a Christian. Yes, the Christian religion as a whole has
been violent, but so have many other religions and cultures in the past.
Even if the conquerers before them didn't say "Convert to my religion or
die!", I am sure it is along similar lines. Ethnic clensing isn't just in
the form of religion.
I suppose I shouldn't resist pointing out the hypocritical atheists
(keyword: hypocritical, not atheist) who claim to be "open-minded", yet are
quick to say that there are no open-minded Christians. Then there are
those who speak of religious tolerance, yet it is double-standard if you're
a Christian. Should I speak anymore?
I also find it amusing that those who commit the acts above sometimes refer
their selves to the "Enlightened Ones." If that is all "Enlightenment",
then I rather keep in the dark.
[Edited on 4/6/2004 by Anya]
|
| |
IamSquid
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 658 Registered: 27/5/2002 Status: Offline
|
posted on 6/4/2004 at 12:23 PM |
Yes, every religion has violence in it's mythology but with the exception
of Judaism but more especially it's "spin-off" religions Xianity and Islam,
I have yet to hear of any doctrines in any of the other major religions
preaching that those who cannot be converted must be destroyed.
Xianity especially is one of the most bigoted hypocritical religions on
Earth. This is not to say that the Xians themselves are neccessarily
bigots or hypocrites. I am not saying that the Bible is neccessarily
bigoted or hypocritical (I'm holding back commenting on this specific topic
further). The problem begins within The Church.
The first problem with Xianity is that it holds nothing more sacred than
Evangelism. It is thought that to be able to convert those godless
heathens is the surest path to heaven like some kind of cosmic pyramid
scam. Evangelism in theory is quite noble but in practice it's simply just
the lack of being able to just mind yor own fucking buissness.
This is exactly what's going on here. The preachers have infiltrated the
lunchroom to brainwash America's youth. Xianity is the world's most
dangerous cult. Am I being overly dramatic? I don't think so, but if we
can find the article that this came from we'll find out.
[Edited on 4/6/2004 by IamSquid] ____________________
i wanted to die, and then it progressed into wanting everyone else to
die so i could watch, and then me die.
-ickgirl
|
| |
EyeCandyRayce
Fanatic Posts: 247 Registered: 19/1/2004 Status: Offline
|
posted on 6/4/2004 at 11:32 AM |
quote:
Children should be nurtured and guided by their parents. Teachers should
keep an eye on them to an extent, of course, but children shouldn't be
raised by the school - that's the parent's job. Despite how I feel about
some parents today, it isn't the government's job to babysit people. Yes,
protect the people's rights, but not babysit them. That's one of my little
peeves about the school I go to.
I agree that children shouldn't be raised by the schools but until a child
reaches a certain age the school is their babysitter. That is just fact.
You cannot say that a 1st grade student is independent enough not to
require someone to look out for them the entire day. Now if the child is
say 14 then I expect the school to back off and allow them to be
independent as is their age as long as they are not harming others,
themselves and taking care of their education.
But again this has nothing to do with the present topic. If you think that
an 8 year old is a strong enough independent thinker to express their
discomfort with something an adult is saying or doing to them then you are
wrong. Look at how many children get molested or abused and never realize
they had the right to stop it until they get older.
For me this really has nothing to do with religion. This has to do with how
I would feel about people I didn't know that was not school staff and not
another childs parent going into the school and speaking with my child
without my permission. As a parent I would be furious that they were
allowing it to happen.
I support them allowing the preachers to come to the school for after
school classes that they kids and parents could sign up for if they MUST
have religion in school but not for just talking with random kids without
the parents permission. ____________________
Suicide Hotline - Please Hold
|
| |
EyeCandyRayce
Fanatic Posts: 247 Registered: 19/1/2004 Status: Offline
|
posted on 6/4/2004 at 11:16 AM |
quote:
Speaking of schools,
there are actually some that involve no religion. Period. In fact, they
do not even allow children to wear symbols (yes, including crosses).
I just think it's funny that everyone is quick to blame Abrahamic faiths
for being all bloody, gorey, and violent. Yes, it is the most noticable
violence, but what about the tribal wars in the past? The other conquerings
of cultures in the world? Didn't Zeus swallow the mother of Pallas Athena
before she was born? Wasn't there War in Olympus on a several occasions?
Why don't people point that out?
Violence, blood, and gore have always been a part of human history. They
even theorize early primates acting bestial.
I agree with you there. I personally have worked to raise my child so that
she is aware that violence is part of human nature. That it exists in
history and now. Some parents would say I am teacher her violence but I can
tell you right now that even though I allow her to watch horror flicks,
history documentaries on war and violence and war movies that she has never
been in a fight and is a loving and caring person.
I don't believe in hiding children from the truth. The truth is that our
history is filled with violence. Nature is filled with violence. It part of
our existance and hiding kids from it just means they will have trouble
processing it later.
But this is an entirely different subject than religion in schools. ____________________
Suicide Hotline - Please Hold
|
| |
Anya
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
|
posted on 6/4/2004 at 11:01 AM |
Speaking of schools, there are actually some that involve no religion.
Period. In fact, they do not even allow children to wear symbols (yes,
including crosses).
I just think it's funny that everyone is quick to blame Abrahamic faiths
for being all bloody, gorey, and violent. Yes, it is the most noticable
violence, but what about the tribal wars in the past? The other conquerings
of cultures in the world? Didn't Zeus swallow the mother of Pallas Athena
before she was born? Wasn't there War in Olympus on a several occasions?
Why don't people point that out?
Violence, blood, and gore have always been a part of human history. They
even theorize early primates acting bestial.
|
| |
Anya
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
|
posted on 6/4/2004 at 10:40 AM |
It's weird. The place that I go to school at right now actually has a few
Christian clubs. I think people are allowed to have other clubs, but I
suppose not many feel the need to. I'm sure if I looked hard enough
there'd be an Islam alliance of sort (there's a lot of Muslims in my
school).
Either way, it doesn't say anything in the Constitution against people
signing in like that as long as they're not taking people's school time.
Rayce: I suppose it's a matter of opinion. Maybe it's the fact that I'm
too used to hearing the phrase that it isn't harassment to me unless they
are stalking me all day, pestering me about it. If the children are
intimidated, then I suppose that the teachers should take notice of the
preacher and assure that the children can come to them if he becomes a
problem and/or if they feel harassed. Nowadays, just speaking an opinion
to someone who doesn't like it can be considered harassment - even if the
person didn't intend to harass anyone; everyone's tolerance levels are
different. I still stand where I believe though as far as not going to the
anti-religious sentimentalist side OR the theocratic side. I don't see how
religious people going to secular schools violate the Separation of Church
and State issue (though I do think they should be going to the religious
private schools if they want to spread "the Word", I know that segregation
doesn't make anything better).
Children should be nurtured and guided by their parents. Teachers should
keep an eye on them to an extent, of course, but children shouldn't be
raised by the school - that's the parent's job. Despite how I feel about
some parents today, it isn't the government's job to babysit people. Yes,
protect the people's rights, but not babysit them. That's one of my little
peeves about the school I go to.
To make all things fair, yes - the parents should express certain concerns
to the teachers, but in the end, that is their responsibility.
Squid: There's violence in all myths and history. Look at the Greek and
Roman myths or even the Irish Invasions. In fact, Hindu mythos have Kali
drinking the blood of a demon.
[Edited on 4/6/2004 by Anya]
|
| |
IamSquid
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 658 Registered: 27/5/2002 Status: Offline
|
posted on 6/4/2004 at 10:34 AM |
| I find it interesting that people throw a fit if someone lets their kids
into a PG13 movie without parents consent. By that logic, how is it okay
to expose yor kids to a viewpoint as violent, gorey, and radical as Xianity
without parental consent? ____________________
i wanted to die, and then it progressed into wanting everyone else
to
/>
die so i could watch, and then me die.
-ickgirl
|
| |
Zero
Fanatic Posts: 459 Registered: 15/2/2004 Status: Offline
|
posted on 6/4/2004 at 10:30 AM |
when i was 8 i didn't even know HOW to walk away from an adult, and at that
age i never knew i had the right or ability to disagree with any authority
figure.
if you guys know an 8 year old that can do that then that's freaking
fantastic, their parents have done a good job. i, on the other hand, was
taught to do nothing more than obey and trust adults. ____________________
"It is a fool's prerogative to utter truths that no one else will
speak."
~
The Sandman, Dream Country
|
| |
EyeCandyRayce
Fanatic Posts: 247 Registered: 19/1/2004 Status: Offline
|
posted on 6/4/2004 at 10:05 AM |
quote:
As long as he isn't harassing the children, he's allowed to have his own
thoughts. While I disagree with the advertising, he is allowed to do so.
I think people are so caught up into their dislike for organized religion
that they feel the need to repress it. Do not get me wrong, I dislike some
of the churches out there, but in turn, they are allowed to have their own
opinions. There is a fine line between theocracy and anti-religion
sentimentism - crossing that line makes us no better than the theocrats.
I have to disagree with you Anya. I think that telling an 8 year old that
they are going to hell because their parents are taking them to the wrong
church or because they are Jewish or their family is Wiccan is harrassment.
If they were going in and speaking with teenagers then I would agree that
it is as simple as the kids getting up and walking away.
When a child is 8 years old they are still learning about the world. They
are open to suggestion and guilt. If that wasn't the case you wouldn't get
a kid walking off with a stranger in a park to "help them find their
puppy". They are easy to lead in the direction you want them to go if you
know what to say. Even if that direction is the wrong direction. If this
was not true then the preachers would be going to middle schools and high
schools and not just elementary schools.
What they are doing is wrong. I don't think that they, or any other
religion, should be allowed to go in and sit with these kids during lunch.
Religion should be reserved for chuch and education for school.
Also think of the danger this puts the kids into. A man could walk into the
school claiming to be a preacher, take a kid into another room and.... you
get the idea. I, as a parent, would be furious if ANYONE that was not staff
of the school, a parent of a student or someone in my family had lunch with
my child at school. No matter what they were talking about.
[Edited on 4/6/04 by EyeCandyRayce]
[Edited on 4/6/04 by EyeCandyRayce] ____________________
Suicide Hotline - Please Hold
|
| |
MystryssRavynDarque
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 648 Registered: 24/9/2002 Status: Offline
|
posted on 6/4/2004 at 09:40 AM |
Damn.
My school is in the middle of a "church on every corner" town. We have at
least 3 Christian church related clubs in my school, and some students
gather together behind part of the school in the morning to sing and read
the bible. Though our school doesn't have a Gay Straight Alliance, and one
of my friends told me that we aren't going to have one because of the
number of Christian clubs. Perhaps they think trying to unite people will
cause too many problems when you are trying to make peace between people.
At my old high school in the next city over (it is a bigger city), they
have two Gay Straight Alliances.
On the morning announcements at my school they play music before they begin
with their information. One morning they played a Christian song, and I
thought to myself "So now that they've played this, when are they going to
play something that has to do with another religion?" They tried to mask
the song by making it a rock and roll song, but it didn't work, I could
hear the words and I knew the song.
To respond to the information given here, I must say that if a preachers of
the christian faith can sign in as a guest and come have lunch with
students, then preachers of other faiths should also be allowed. If a
Buddhist, or Hindu, or even Satanist wanted to enter the school and talk to
the children about their beliefs, they also should be allowed in. I also
think that any of my friends that don't go to school with me should be able
to come in and have lunch with me.
Anyone want to come eat lunch with me at school? ____________________
"People always say what we are looking for is a meaning for life…I don't
think that's what we're looking for. I think what we're looking for is the
experience of being alive." -Joseph Campbell
|
| |
Anya
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
|
posted on 6/4/2004 at 08:48 AM |
If that is the case, the school I go to is VERY uptight on that subject.
In matter of fact, at my previous school, I was allowed to talk to teachers
on a normal basis and not just in class. At the school I go to, though,
they think either something is wrong with you if you talk to the teachers
outside of school or suspect some relationship going on, which is never
even in my head.
*shakes head* I personally think some schools are too uptight on some of
this stuff. I understand being concerned for the children's safety, but
some places are way too nosey. Just because I have a normal conversation
with adults doesn't mean that I am going to try to seduce them or anything.
I guess Freud was right when he thought that sex was all that people think
about...at least in the area that I live in. The only teacher that doesn't
see things like that is my American Government instructor, but of course,
he flunked his own son so it's obvious that he knows his place.
I had a social worker and/or psychologist called on me twice here to ask me
if I am a rape victim or something (some of my art is erotic, but not
really anything big going on)...it was my personal sketchbook for crying
out loud and the art teacher wanted to see it privately. I even told her
that I draw that stuff sometimes and it didn't mean that I was raped or
anything...she still sent a social worker of sorts on me.
On top of that, every time that the Assistant Principal calls me in, she
doesn't stop telling me about "boss-worker relations at school". Not like
I didn't know that from the first twenty times she told me. She just keeps
telling me, even when I am not crossing any of those "borders" that they
have. Eh, I'm sorry that people here are too concerned about their public
image.
Anyway, that's a piece of my mind on how I feel on the uptightness of
certain school systems...mainly the ones in California.
[Edited on 4/6/2004 by Anya]
|
| |
