feralucce
Extreme Fanatic   Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 24/7/2004 at 07:56 PM |
religion as defined by webster.com
1 a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b
(1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment
or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes,
beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : CONSCIENTIOUSNESS
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and
faith
your own source prooves my point...
[Edited on 7/25/2004 by feralucce] ____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 24/7/2004 at 04:37 PM |
bane...................................................
webster.com is websters dictionary......................
iy fucking says merriam-webster dictionary online.......
Asatru... norese worshippers............................
havamal... the book of their religion...................
[Edited on 7/25/2004 by feralucce] ____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
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Bane
Occasional Poster   Posts: 28 Registered: 14/7/2004 Status: Offline
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posted on 24/7/2004 at 04:19 PM |
@ferraluce: Ok... partially you're right...
but...
i didn't mention Webster's Dictionary in my last post.(can't find any
reference to it within my post)
"Asatru documented in the 10th century ad... they have a book, the
havamal"
ok.. maybe i misunderstood you... what does the Havamal has to do with
Asatru? *confused*
(as far as i grasped this comment... in this syntactic constellation it
would have meant that the Bhuddists have a book , the Havamal, but that's
wrong..)
Ok Folks... i will cool down on the matter... I'm sorry that i offended
you...
I'm sometimes a bit rash if it comes to religions and stuff. Sorry for
that...
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 22/7/2004 at 08:06 PM |
Bane: no offense... but a definition can be intrinsic to understanding when
one is adding a diety to the equation... small word, big ramifications...
sometimes, semantics is important...
damn typos
[Edited on 7/23/2004 by feralucce] ____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 22/7/2004 at 07:51 PM |
Bane... disgraced myself? Ummm ok... there was no flaming here... and if
you are attempting such, you have failed heinously... let us discuss, not
be assinine...
Websters dictionary was written for and by teh church of england...a
christian dictionary (as evidenced by capitalisation of the word god) is
hardly a fitting source for a discussion on alternative religions...
religion is defined in many sources as a set of beliefs, values, and
practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader...
god is not necessary for a religion... and buddhism believes in the
supernatural, the power of the universe is within...
the anabaptist church annointed by saint peter does not exist anymore... by
your reasoning, no priests trained by other priests down the line...
christianity is not a religion either...
No shit the havamal has nothing to do with budhism... the reference was to
the asatru... learn to read...
lastly... budhism, and shinto are two sides of the same coin... different
aspects of the same beliefs... the tipitaka applies... also... just
because there is no ONE book... does not mean there are no texts...
your close mindedness in stating that one must worship a god, makes you
ignore the obvious... ____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
/>
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
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Bane
Occasional Poster Posts: 28 Registered: 14/7/2004 Status: Offline
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posted on 22/7/2004 at 07:05 PM |
Ferraluce: There is no god involved in Bhuddism.(btw. there are two
mainstreams in Bhuddism you didn'T mention...)
Bhuddism has a spiritual leader, but that DOES NOT define religion.
as webster.com states, religion is a "service and worship of God or the
supernatural".
So Bhuddism is not a religion in the meaning of the word itself. It did not
say it can't be extended in the meaning that it CAN be religion(for the
purpose of believing in)
uhm... just because Lovecraft states that there are Great Old ones, does
not make them real gods i guess, or do you view them as gods, just because
they are mentioned by him?
Britannica.com entry for "Wicca":
"Modern Western witchcraft movement."
well, if someone wants to believe in re-animated religions, so be it.
Got no problem with that.
uhm... worship of greek antheons may continue... well... but i don'T think
it's originally based, because there are no more priests who learned it in
succesion from another priest... (correct me if i'm wrong)
this stuff seems to me like it'S made up by some guys/gals/whatever who
wanted to invent some kind of religion that seems to be "original" but to
me that just looks like pure
Discordianism(http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/disc.html)...
sorry for that...
btw. Shinto does NOT have a book like the Christianism has in the Bible.
and it has been abolished as state religion some time ago... ^^
(google.com)
btw...
The Hávamál *lol* has AFAIK nothing to do with buddhism but is part of the
Edda and a base for norse beliefs...
(http://www.evindale.com/starkad/havamal.html)
(found via using
http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&ie=UTF-8&q=Asatru+havamal&met
a=)
Enough proof?
Want more chances to disgrace yourself?
btw. if you think you can claim that your incorrect opinion is a definition
of a term... think about WHO should sit at the kiddie table ;-)
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 21/7/2004 at 10:24 PM |
| 500bc... THAT is some OLD cracker jacks ____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
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Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
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Xaoswolf
Fanatic   Posts: 463 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 21/7/2004 at 10:12 PM |
Feral, you know as well as I that all those religions you just talked about
were made up based on the prizes in cracker jack boxes.
As for public schools, well, I have never been a fan of the education
recieved there. Which is why I am a fan of the tax credit for those that
want to go to private schools, and for reforms on private school spending.
I would rather have gotten some new books, or at least better carpet, than
have my schools football team get more uniforms, or for the basketball
coaches to go to a seminar at several thousand a pop... ____________________
Sometimes I dream about dinosaurs shopping for cargo shorts at the Gap.
Does that make me a bad person?
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 21/7/2004 at 05:53 PM |
*chuckles*
Ok.. prove the opposite...
new age is not wicca, and is not pagan... BUT utilising your definitions
we will proceed...
First off... religion : a)A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on
the teachings of a spiritual leader, or b)A cause, principle, or activity
pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion
NOW... we will proceed with those two definitions... Here on shmeng...
stating an opinion like "Bhuddism is NOT a religion" is an invalid
statement UNTIL you provide proof to back up the statement... at this
point, unless you can provide proof of your statements, you make yourself
look like a moron. As we say here, put the fuck up, or shut the fuck
up...
Budhism... I am not sure how you justify your statement that it is not a
religion... but what are the criteria for it being a religion within the
context of this conversation. Let us see... documentation of history,
religious texts?
Budhism is documented as far back in history as 528 bc and they have a
religious book called the
tipitaka(http://www.accesstoinsight.org/canon/)
Asatru documented in the 10th century ad... they have a book, the
havamal
Scottish witchcraft: 1563... this one is a familial religion... therefore
there are few texts, but it is documented. (celtic witchcraft, one of the
foundations of modern wicca)
Will you deny the polytheism of the Romans and Greeks? Worship of them
continues today (I am a worshipper of Eris)
Native american beliefs were documented 200+ years ago... a rich oral
tradition.
Shinto: 500 bc... it, AND budhism are now and have been, the national
religion of japan since before christ was born... AND there are texts...
These two religions walk hand in hand.... one fulfilling one set of needs
and the second, another.
Wicca is based on the beliefs of people past. new age, while mislead has a
firm foundation in REAL religions... I have covered many of the pagan
religions... which are older than yours in many cases, and also NOT
wicca... dismissing them out of hand is a foolish thing to do... doing so
while challenging me to obtain proof is just plain dumb... bring proof and
citations to the table or go sit at the kiddie table... ____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
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Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
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Bane
Occasional Poster Posts: 28 Registered: 14/7/2004 Status: Offline
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posted on 21/7/2004 at 04:57 PM |
@ferraluce: that's right... but you've got to start at a point...
and btw. i suppose there should be none of that new age crap(sorry if i use
swear words) taught at school...
there is NONE written record of those religions mentioned (prove the
opposite)
individualism is not developed in school btw...
confessionate schooling is not mandatory... you might choose ethics
(which involves philosophy)
Bhuddism is NOT a religion...
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 21/7/2004 at 06:36 AM |
bane: age has nothing to do with anything...
and demographics is a flawed way to look at things... they take numbers
only from the "organised religions without taking into account that there
are many MANY independent religious practitioners and religions that don't
have a way to poll themselves... besides... why only teach what people
are... that is a bit like teaching an art class and ignoring the
impressionists, or a philosophy class adn ignoring the relativists ____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
/>
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Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
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Bane
Occasional Poster Posts: 28 Registered: 14/7/2004 Status: Offline
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posted on 21/7/2004 at 05:50 AM |
@callei: uhm... maybe they get no job, because of unwanted suibject
combinations or because they are too old?
uhm... you missed a point that i mentioned...
the state doesn't say that there's only Catholic, Prostestant and evt.
Islam religion.
You could choose ethics if you are not interested in those mentioned...
the three mentioned are thaught at school because the demographics suggest
it...
You can make a good living as a teacher here, if you are NOT just a
elementary teacher or a teacher for "Sonderschulen"...
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callei
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 19/7/2004 at 07:26 AM |
no bane, in america the schools that are funded by the government dont
overtly teach any "religious" studies. In schools funded by the parents and
a church, they do include classes on the religion of that church. Nor does
America pretend that only Christianity/Catholisism with perhaps Islam are
the only religions. In a "Religious Studies" class offering in highschool,
a student will be presented with Christianity, Islam, Jeudism, Buddhism,
and generally at least anamistic "religions" as well. Maybe america is
better at some things after all.
Funny i have a few German friends that are struggling to get enough work as
teachers or professors to make a living. I know its not easy for them to
get fired, but that doesnt mean that they can make enough money. Maybe that
is just at the university level? ____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away.
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Bane
Occasional Poster Posts: 28 Registered: 14/7/2004 Status: Offline
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posted on 19/7/2004 at 02:50 AM |
What i wonder about.... here in Germany there are religion classes for the
students to choose at school(relating to their confession), those who don't
want to do Catholic or Protestant religion classes may attend ethics
classes(or in some regions even islamistic religion classes)...
Is there none religious education in America?
btw... if you are a teacher here in Germany, you "have made it" in a way
that you get paid well and don't have to worry bout being fired... because
every teacher in Germany is a civil servant and can't be fired anyway...
uhm... just my 2 cents to the debate.
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callei
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 9/4/2004 at 05:51 AM |
public schools have never ever ever been about "educating" the kids for the
sake of the kids. they have always (yes i mean always but only in terms of
public schools in america funded by the large corporations and the state)
been there to teach conformity, basic factory skills, and to baby sit the
kids while the parents work.
That is why the quakers fought against them (as much as Quakers fight) and
why getting things like art and music programs has always been so hard.
there have been high points for education (usually during and just after a
big war) and high points for arts (the 70's mostly) but the function of the
schools in not to educate children to think.
IF public schools were designed to educate, would be pay teachers minimum
wage? IF the federal govt valued children as people wouldnt there be laws
protecting them, nurturing them, and supporting them? (letting them sign
themselves into care, feeding them and not only when they attend the state
run school, and grant money that was enough to cover the costs of private
college as examples). If public schools were there to broaden the mind,
grow the soul, and create community would they cram 35 kids in a class room
and pretend that they all learn the same way at the same speed?
I could go on and on about it. I personally believe that kids ahve rights
and are human beings. the federal govt doesnt. most states dont even
pretend. And christianity blames thier sins on thier kids. you get that
much disregard for the tykes in one place and you get things like school
uniforms, lunch programs that are full of bad foods, and teaches that make
less than day care workers. ____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away.
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IamSquid
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 658 Registered: 27/5/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 9/4/2004 at 03:52 AM |
Well it wasn't SO long ago that I myself attended public highschool. At
the time I had alawys wondered how stupid the administration was for coming
up with the most ridiculuos system for schooling on Earth. I had just
assumed that schools were modeled after prisons. Now I know that education
is replaced by confomrmity and submission as the prime goals of public
school.
What better than the Xian Church to teach children to not stand out in a
crowd or have their own opinions? ____________________
i wanted to die, and then it progressed into wanting everyone else to
die so i could watch, and then me die.
-ickgirl
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 8/4/2004 at 01:49 PM |
Dom*grins* I thought that's what I said???
ne how...
Squido: the word could benefit from more of us... and we;re called POEE
POPES... (search for the principia discordia... ) and I just disagree with
people being able to influence children without their parents
approval...
BUT that is why I am completely against the american public school system.
In 1983 the NEAA (national education association of america) issued a paper
about outcome based education. In that paper the president of the NEAA said
"it is not our goal to educate the minds of america's youth, but to shape
them, mold them and remake them in our own image." EWWWWWW
Feral
____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
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Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
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EyeCandyRayce
Fanatic  Posts: 247 Registered: 19/1/2004 Status: Offline
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posted on 7/4/2004 at 08:12 AM |
| Domkitten: Exactly my point. Regardless of religion the issue here is
safety. It is good to see an opinion on it from the view of a teacher. ____________________
Suicide Hotline - Please Hold
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Domkitten
Fanatic  Posts: 470 Registered: 23/9/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 6/4/2004 at 10:11 PM |
Just to elaborate on a point here from the perspective of a teacher in the
schools and someone who has to go through three background checks,
fingerprinting, TB tests, and a full physical just to be able to work with
kids.
No one, and I mean no one, should be allowed onto school propriety during
working hours when children are present if they are not parents, gaurdians,
or school staff. There is a reason that we make people sign in and report
to the office to explain what their business is before we let them go
anywhere.
If a school anywhere is allowing people to sign in as guest and go and sit
down with the kids in a lunchroom, then the administrators are out of their
minds and need to be replaced.
If you have only ever been in a lunchroom as a student, that you may not
realize how difficult and dangerous a situation is when an unknown adult
can simply walk in. You have anywhere from 100 to 200 kids eating at the
same time, and sometimes more, and maybe one or two overworked, underpaid
supervising teachers that have to give up their break time to watch the
kids eat. They trust that the adminstration is doing their job when they
let people into the building, and they probably wouldn't say anything or
notice if a priest or anyone else, got up with a child and walked off.
Regardless of the religion issue ,if you have STRANGERS walking into a an
elementary school and having access to kids, then you have a serious
potential threat on your hands and it won't be long before disgrutled
parents wanted to snatch children, child predators, and kidnappers all hook
onto this, "I'm a guest" bullshit and start walking off with kids.
If I were a teacher or a parent at this school I'd be throwing a bloody fit
at my principal for allowing this to take place. It's irresponsible to
allow it. It's dangerous to allow it. It has nothing to do with religion or
message. It's all about safety. ____________________
It's like kegel exercises for your throat.~Monolycus
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Dolorosa
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 856 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 6/4/2004 at 10:06 PM |
Hey...mebbe I should petition myself into schools...that would be fun.
Convert the little snot-shockers to the Anemonic cult an raise an army of
small angry weirdos.
Church...if it isn't a problem, you aren't doing it right. ____________________
In the valley of the Goats, the Goat Fucker is King
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