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Author: Subject: In 10,000 years

Extreme Fanatic





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  posted on 17/7/2004 at 05:57 PM
we need to get a message to the intelligent inhabitants of Earth, if any, 10,000 years in the future. we have been given a federal grant to do this and money is not a question in a practical sense. How do we do this?

 

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  posted on 17/7/2004 at 06:27 PM
Write it all over the m00n

 

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Extreme Fanatic




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  posted on 17/7/2004 at 07:50 PM
kender: you sleep on the couch inhte same house as Me... I have no qualms about setting your ass on fire...

 

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  posted on 17/7/2004 at 11:17 PM
Well, you said "intelligent inhabitants", so i figure they can read, but that would be giving even the inhabitants of this time too much credit

And if you set my ass on fire, do you think i'm even going to notice?

 

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Fuck the Rest of You.

-Machine Fucking Head

 

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  posted on 17/7/2004 at 11:52 PM
well the french are sending a satelite up that will hold a lot of written letters.

But if you really want to send a message into the future that will make them stand up and ask, "Just what the hell were these people saying,?" you gotta draw giant pictures in the desert that can only be veiwable from several hundred feet in the air.

 

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  posted on 18/7/2004 at 12:36 AM
If we're going in the direction of massive arial land geography messaging, I suggest "made you look".

 

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  posted on 18/7/2004 at 01:25 AM
i think the meassage should be something along the lines of '' u are all dommed to die a horrible painful death!!! we will return on (insert date that will come round in 10,000 years) and (insert horrible way to die)!!!

 

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I know whats it like to want to die, how it hurts to smile, how you try to fit in but you can't, how you hurt yourself on the outside, to try to kill the pain in the inside.

 

Extreme Fanatic




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  posted on 18/7/2004 at 02:38 AM
aod: yes, yes, you're very smart... that is a prank, not a message... please use full words... not the U for you...

 

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Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist

 

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  posted on 18/7/2004 at 02:38 AM
Ok... take several things into account... modern english is completely different fomr olde english(300 yeras ago...) so who is to say a) that they will remember our language (sumerian for example)

point number two... how can we be sure that the technology will exist to read any data?

and lastly... this method must survive the aeons... I agree that the land pictures would last, but how can we assure they will be understandable... legible, per se?

 

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/>





Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist

 

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  posted on 18/7/2004 at 08:17 AM
Heh, I've been poking this one like a sore tooth since you posted it, and I agree with your points Feral. We need to decide what to say, how to communicate it, how to make it last that long. The other question is do we want the payload (message) delivered at precisely 10,000 years or do we want it to be available at all times?

One thought I have would be a frm of nuclear reactor buried in the desert which would emit a sequenced burst of energy something akin to morse code over radio frequency but much more mathematically pure. The problem with that idea is that I have no idea what kind of radio noise would be used to do something like that.

Leaving the actual idea of communication aside, I think the only way to leave a dynamic message, or a message that is actually static, but broadcasts a different set of messages over and over again, would be with nuclear energy(at the moment). Solar power would degrade and would require a peice of the message be exposed to the elements fo 10k years. The same goes for most naturally powered messages.

In terms of message, I think "we come in peace" would be hilarious but ultimately useless. I have always wanted to bury a metal paged copy of the entire encyclopedia as well as a metal engraved gene sequence from a dozen volunteers, something like that could be dropped into mineral oil and burried next to the broadcast station, as well as a note saying that we usually wrote on paper, but the metal seemed like it would last longer. Again though you have the issue of communication, so there would have to be some form of tabula rasa for their archeologists to learn and translate from. And if possible I would try to drop in something that contained a voice recording of the tabula rasa as that would allow them to hear the language as it is spoken today.

 

____________________
It is only through the lack of sex that humanity derives the need for an all encompassing blind love. And in that moment of extreme horniness with no relief in sight, in that moment can be found the birth of religion.
-Me

 

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  posted on 18/7/2004 at 10:47 AM
I have always liked the idea of a black slab monolith on the moon. We could use Shade's idea and load it with metal encyclopedias, dictionary, and gene sequence... A kind massive filing cabinet, and to unlock each "drawer" we could use a puzzle system. Of course we could throw in a laptop and CDs loaded with classic literature, art, history, science, geography...etc. As for the message carved into the face of the slab, how about "Have another bite of forbidden fruit.” Written in either Latin, or Hindi which ever seems like it will last longer.

 

____________________
co-worker: "Your gay!?"
myself: "Didn't you see my rainbow pin?"
co-worker: "I just thought you liked skettles."
-(yes, it actually happened to me)

 

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  posted on 18/7/2004 at 11:49 AM
quote:
...and to unlock each "drawer" we could use a puzzle system

Deadcell man, we are sending a message to the future, not writing the next "adventure games" video game. The monolith idea is an interesting one except for a number of problems, primus, how would we guarantee that they knew it was there? And Segundus, How would we guarantee that the moon survived? 10k years is a looong ass time and it's possible that the moon would not survive the trip thorugh time. That and what if in ten thoudand years we as a populatioh have returned to a technological state similar to the one in which we find ourselves now? For all we know today there could be a dozen monoliths on the moon right now just sitting there because we can't tell the difference between them and the ten thousand years worth of moon dust that has covered them.

 

____________________
It is only through the lack of sex that humanity derives the need for an
all encompassing blind love. And in that moment of extreme horniness with
no relief in sight, in that moment can be found the birth of religion. />
-Me

 

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  posted on 18/7/2004 at 12:31 PM
I also doubt that CD's would last the 10000 years.

The metal dictionary would have to be one of the best ways to do it. The problem is, what metal do you make it in? And how do you preserve the recordings? like I said, CD's don't last all that long, and neither does magnetic media. Would a titanium record work, if so, we'd also have to leave plans for a record player somewhere in all that.

You'd also probably want to get a couple dictionaries of a couple languages plus some kind of welcome message or story in all languages stored. That way if they already could translate one, they would have an easier time with the others, like with the rosetta stone.

 

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Does that make me a bad person?

 

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  posted on 18/7/2004 at 01:42 PM
Lol, thank you Xaos. Rosetta stone was what I meant when I was talking about the Tabula Rasa. Doh!

What metal...I'm not sure, but that was why I thought of preserving it in mineral oil. Nothing organic to create oxygen, and hopefully it wouldn't interact too much. I would guess platinum or titanium would be the best for durability, althugh copper would be better if you wanted the finder to share it with the world rather than sell it for the money (Assuming those petals were precious at the time)

Also, another interesting thing to add might be a few world maps and a globe.

How to leave a sound recording...shit, good question. I like the idea of the titanium record and plans, it might be a bit complex, but once they get it worked out it might just work!

 

____________________
It is only through the lack of sex that humanity derives the need for an />
all encompassing blind love. And in that moment of extreme horniness
with

no relief in sight, in that moment can be found the birth of
religion.
/>

-Me

 

Extreme Fanatic




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  posted on 18/7/2004 at 02:10 PM
dead cell: dontcha think that if they made it to teh moon, and brought it back... that they did enough to warrant opening the damn thing wihout having to jimmy the locks???

 

____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
/>
/>







Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist

 

Extreme Fanatic




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Registered: 31/12/1969
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  posted on 18/7/2004 at 02:19 PM
Shade... *grins* yeah, rosetta stone... I was confused by you wanting to place a clean slate in the box...

here's the problem with metals... those that are non-reactive (aka noncorrodible) are all precious, gold, etc. ALSO they all tend to be malleable. let us tackle the container issue first... what do we do to insure that it will survive. I personally have been thinking a great deal on this part and one thing that comes to mind is ceramics.

Like a porcelainized bath tub. The advantages to ceramics are that a)they are relatively non-reactive (draino is an acid), b)incredibly resistant to heat (the space shuttle comes down on ceramic tiles. and c) when applied to a strong material, they are incredibly durable.

another question: I like the ideea of the mineral oil, but how do we seal it?? rubber seals break down in a couple of years, as do nylon and silicone...

 

____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can. />
/>

/>









Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist

 

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  posted on 18/7/2004 at 02:44 PM
I'm afraid I don't have any suggestions as to materials and messages on this one... I am wondering why anyone would even attempt something like this, though. This is an interesting forum topic, to be sure. I am not trying to negate that, by any means. But seriously, what on earth would you have to say to people (assuming they're still something you would consider "people") 10,000 years from now? Why would you care to say anything to them?
The only reason I ask this is because it strikes me funny in the same way that it strikes me funny when people think they get some sort of immortality because of procreating (anyone who knows my take on having kids, knows that this is a big thing in my life, so I deal with this conversation quite often). In a few generations, you(the parent) are forgotten. Period. Expounding on this, why should we, as a society, care to say anything to another society so far into the future?
There's probably no way to get it all in... and why should we? I like watching the history channel and learning about all the theories we now have about ancient cultures. Do we really want to make it easy for the people of the future? And if we do, then why do we want to make it so simple for them? What satisfaction would we possibly get from it? By the time they find out, assuming they actually do get to this monolith or box or whatever it is, we won't possibly be able to care whether or not they got it right.
I do hope I am not raining on anyone's parade or thread. It is cool to see what people think of... I suppose I'm just wondering if anyone would take on such a venture in all seriousness, and if so, why? If it's just an exercise in imagination, then I apologize for going off topic, and I'll be sure to employ my imagination better before my next post.
/end query

 

____________________
"I've told you before, I don't comprehend religion, although conviction is a concept I'm beginning to get. In any case, a person with a real religious conviction is, I propose, a religious convict, and deserves locking up."

 

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  posted on 18/7/2004 at 02:57 PM
As an idea for the sealant, if we were going to set up a ceramic case, why not do a dual case. an inner one that is a basically fitted thing that closes like a shoe box. We fill that with oil, suspend the plates in the oil with layers of linen between the outer edges and the ceramic (the linen will survive in the oil as well). Then we wrap that pack in linen, pack new ceramic around that in a single mass, form it to conform to the inner package and slow fire it (Such a thing has to exist) so that we create an airtight seal. the ceramic would be sealed, the inner case would mostly be sealed and any leakage would be minimized. And any second material sealant issues would be bypassed

 

____________________
It is only through the lack of sex that humanity derives the need for
an
/>

all encompassing blind love. And in that moment of extreme horniness

with


no relief in sight, in that moment can be found the birth of

religion.

/>


-Me

 

Fanatic




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Registered: 1/1/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 18/7/2004 at 03:47 PM
I remember hearing a while back, some piece on burying nuclear waste in the dessert. The argument was, "Oh my god! Who cares what WE do with it, what if when we all die,a new race of intelligent beings came around, thousands of years from now, and acidently unearthed it!?" As if ANYONE in the current energy or enviromental departments gives a fuck about the future of man, or lizard, or man-lizard kind. None the less, they wanted to create some giant headstone that would ward off any primordial new super race from cracking it open with wooden hoes and shovels and, you know, dying. Giant black spiked horror things that look like 40 story obsidian razor crowns, absolutely nothing, some sort of chemical in the earth that, when disturbed, would give the effect of rupturing a sewage main, all these ideas were tossed around. While insane, druid catcomb crown thing seemed scary, scary things, they decided, seem to intrinscially attract us, so they dumped that. I mean, we've all seen Temple of Doom.

But it got me thinking about how, what seems dangerous to us, may seem inviting to them. Like darkness is shit crazy scary to a lot of humans, but a race of nocturnal beings may see it as a comforting, even secure color.

This all shares a simialrity with what we're talking about. But a question must be asked. Who is the audience, Feral? Should this be something primitive humanoids could get, or should it be something only the advanced can. Satelites denote space travel, and who knows what might happen. I think many are aware that we have huge space junk problems, I.E. tons of bolts, nuts, and even paint flecks orbiting the atmosphere at thousands of miles an hour. NASA already predicts that some day a chain reaction will most likely occur, and all the stuff, satelites included, will trash each other, and leave a continuous shroud of debry around us.

An intelligent race may develope almost devoid of our need to destroy and advance. They may stay perpetually primitve. Living off the land, villages, etc. So Phonographs, simple to operate diagrams, etc, may all be crap. The area we leave it in (if it's going to be in one local of earth only) may become inhospitable because nuclear war, or meteor strikes. Hell, that stuff might destroy it. Flooding, earthquakes, tornadoes, and geological shifts tend to destory mountains (in case anyone likes a Mount Rushmore-eque Idea) and wash shit away. In fact, leaving a message in the desserts of new mexico may be putting it at the bottom of a yet to apear ocean.

It's clear that for the most part, anything located on earth is a bad idea. Too active, I say. You have a few choices: Deal with the fact that chances are, our horrendous reshaping of the earth will be notciable by any future archaologists.

Send a beacon, a damn good one, into extreme non geosyncronous orbit, and make it pump out something useful

Damn I hate to say this......The moon.

It gets struck by meteor's alot, and who knows, maybe it'll get fucked like in time machine, and kill us all, but it's more surface stable than Earth is.

And what to say. I may not be the brightest fucker, but math is the universal language. And so is a picture. The face on mars may not be a real face, but we could make one. A face, or a figure of a man and woman, perhaps.

Or, the simplest most "hey, we knew shit, and we got to THE MOON" message you could give them:

** + ** = ****

 

____________________
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“You know that if I were reincarnated, I’d want to come back a buzzard. Nothing hates him. He is never bothered or in danger, and he can eat anything.”
Faulkner

 

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  posted on 18/7/2004 at 03:51 PM
Oh and BTW, I agree with daria. This is such a silly human thing to do. "People will care about us in the future". We fucking used mummies for powering steam locomotives for a while people. We're assholes. In fact, if they even found out a lot about us, they'd prolly be pissed. Hey past people, thanks for the ozone. Still hasn't come back yet. Oh btw, we shit on your fucking monolith! Not to pisss on your idea feral. I dig it, and have pondered the same to myself on ocasion. But it is what it is.

 

____________________
“The only thing that can alter the good writer is death.”

“You know that if I were reincarnated, I’d want to come back a buzzard.
Nothing hates him. He is never bothered or in danger, and he can eat
anything.”

Faulkner

 
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