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Author: Subject: "Jews are going to Hell!"

Extreme Fanatic





Posts: 656
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 12/4/2003 at 11:15 AM
Am I a "fanatical Christian"? No. I was agnostic not so long ago, but I do believe in a creator and consider Christ a bodhistava (spelling?) for a far and wide term. However, I'm not religious - I'm spiritual (there's a big difference, in fact without spirituality there'd be no religion in general). But for whatever reason, a handful of suppose "Christians" believe that Jews are going to go to Hell for not believing in Christ being the Son of the One Above. This is somewhat amusing...yet somewhat annoying at the same time (should guess how much it's been brought up to annoy me). Probably a redundant topic to bring up, but when did so... "compassionate" people start condemning others just for not going fanatically with their beliefs?

I think Christ taught more of compassion - not this hate and strong and out judgement of other people. Either way, I would like to style this more philosophical than religious...if people do not mind:

What is wrong with this picture?

I'm far from religious, as I said. In fact, I do not care if anyone lacks spirituality or not...but for the sake of a philosophical discussion over this and the folklore around it.

 

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Fanatic




Posts: 254
Registered: 31/12/1969
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  posted on 12/4/2003 at 01:13 PM
Well, Christians should be going to Hell for worshiping and believing Jesus is God (but who cares about technicalities, actually reading and comprehending the Bible?).

 

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The OBOLISK is Divine.

 

Fanatic




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  posted on 12/4/2003 at 02:16 PM
Apparently you don't, Stic. Nor do you pay attention to Christian doctrine as a whole. Go look up The Council of Nicea.
Most Christians I know do not think that Jews are damned. Hell, even the bible says they aren't.
Any kind of fanatic or fundamentalist is going to start over looking those annoying little traits like compassion and understanding. Unfortunately, they are the ones who make the most noise, claiming to know and comprehend all there is. I would suggest ignoring them, and finding friends who are willing to talk and discuss different beliefs, admitting they don't know everything about another set doctrine without getting all angry. I never have more fun than when I have conversations like those.
Just stay away from the Jerry Falwells of any religion and you'll find your blood pressure staying at a much more healthy level.

 

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Fanatic




Posts: 254
Registered: 31/12/1969
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  posted on 12/4/2003 at 02:38 PM
Ummm, yes I have read the bibble. Perhaps you should read the Ten Commandments and look up the historical origin of the holy trinity. I think someone needs to rim me.

 

____________________
The OBOLISK is Divine.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 1570
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  posted on 12/4/2003 at 02:55 PM
There are fanatics in almost every religion, and their fanaticism is sprung from their own personal agenda not so much as faith. Faith is an easy way to grease the wheels to set their own ideals in motion, nothing more. Whether they're after power, money, recognition, or control, it rarely has little or nothing to do with faith or the religion they profess. The only difference between Jews and Christians? The New Testament. Period. They're both cool with each other until Jesus came into play, and that is where the split occured..man even Jesus himself was a Jew. Try reminding one of those "jews burn in hell" types of that fact. They seem to forget that little nuance. The rest my friends, has been one fun bloody history.

 

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Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.

 

Extreme Fanatic




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  posted on 12/4/2003 at 04:19 PM
*nods vigorously to this* Very good points! It just saddens me to see others spiritually raped and/or persecuted (or prosecuted, depending where you live) just because of the littlest things. 'If you're not a "devoted Christian", you're going to Hell; if you decide to have permarriage sex while being a believer, you're a sinner and thus going to Hell! '*says the last phrase in great and enthusiastic sarcasm* These strong judgements get old. If people look, there's actually lines saying "Do not judge, lest be judged." in the Bible. Also a lot of people tend to forget that a lot of the Old Testament was more of stories written by men - along with some other fragments of the document itself. Oh well. But this is why I use to hate Christianity so much - the people representing it made it seem like slavery and a set of rules that you have to follow or go to Hell...not to mention rules not many follow themself, if they're honest. Right now I'm in decent terms...despite the people who mistake spiritualness for religious, but that's my share of weed.

It all comes to this eventually - who is to say what is right or wrong? I mean I hope my ways are or were "right", but we all wont know until the end. I'd rather treat others like I want to be treated than condemn others when I have problems myself. But not everyone is going to agree with my way, I'll accept that.

Two core things people fight over the most in this world - religion and ethnic background. For me, they're the most ignorant things to fight over. Why ethnicity? You can't change what someone is, no matter how much you decide to peel their skin white. Religion? What makes you any better if you spiritually rape someone just because they follow a different path? While you do this, while you may drive the person mad in the process, only they can change themself.

A couple days ago, a man I loved rejected me for I "was not Christian." I went over a frenzy, being in an imbalance between heart, mind, and soul and looked for "religion that'd fit me". Then I realized my total fuck up - it isn't me to do that. It may be a miscommunication problem (I'm going to find out myself in a few days), but if he cannot take me for who I am, then he not only doesn't follow the teachings of the bodhistava, he doesn't really love me...especially if he's going to take me for such materialistic reasons.

 

Extreme Fanatic




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  posted on 12/4/2003 at 04:25 PM
If anyone remember the story of Sarah and Abraham's Mistress (the Mistress was kicked out of the house after old crone Sarah finally had a kid), that was the core thing that Jews and Arabs fight over for many years (of course, some are lured in by more reasons by now probably). On my behalf, I think its' silly for the sheer fact that this crap happened ages ago. More or less, this is the historical (and likely religious) reason, anyway.

 

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  posted on 12/4/2003 at 04:26 PM
Im going to hell and I am taking everyone with me!!!!!!!! muhahahaha

 

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Guns are good, Guns are great...Kill the people that you hate!

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 1570
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  posted on 12/4/2003 at 07:24 PM
Don't worry babe, I'm saving you a lawnchair by the tortured souls barbecue pit.
We'll be the only ones there with margaritas....runny margaritas, but well, given the circumstances....

 

____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.

 

Member




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Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 12/4/2003 at 07:47 PM
LOL, who could ask for more? Bar-B-Que tortured soul and runny margaritas, with a big lake of fire for a nice view ::sighs:: This is making me feel all warm and fuzzy inside!

 

____________________
Guns are good, Guns are great...Kill the people that you hate!

 

Fanatic




Posts: 241
Registered: 16/7/2002
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  posted on 12/4/2003 at 07:50 PM
Anya, if you are serious about this question, I suggest you find a forum - preferably in real life - with actual Christian people, and ask them. Most of them are very open to discussions, especially if you dig up the more enlightened ones, and you might actually have a really nice talk.

I have known all shades of Christians - one of whom I count as my best friends - allthough I practice stuff most of them consider I'll go straight down the elevator for. Each to thir own.

The only thing I ever felt especially bad about was when I close friend took his own life.
His parents were fundamental Christians, and in addition to the loss of a very dear son they have to live with the fact that - according to their belief - he is condemned forever.
I can't even start to imagine how bad that must feel.

 

____________________
All stressed out and no one to choke...



 

Fanatic




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  posted on 12/4/2003 at 07:52 PM
Oh and girls, I'll join that barbecue, roasting heretics & downing runny Marguaritas, thank you very much

 

____________________
All stressed out and no one to choke...

/>



 

Fanatic




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  posted on 12/4/2003 at 08:21 PM
I find it funny how “holy wars”are fought over our “messiahs” Christ, Mohammed etc.

I also find it funny how some Christians believe that Jews are going to hell for not believing Christ was the “son of god”...even though Christ was Jewish.

Christianity in general states that anyone who strays even alittle from the “faith” must be saved. If not, they will be going to hell for being a dissident towards “god.” Think of it this way: It’s a way to keep people in check during the Middle Ages and further back depending on which big religion was the current big thing.

Today, many people still follow this way. Could you say this is a case of anti-semanism(spelling ack)? I doubt it really. Could it be a grudge against the Jewish populous for killing Christianity's savior? Who knows. Honestly, this varies from person to person but in anyway you put it, it’s wrong to say you’re going to Hell for believing what you want to believe.

- On a side note: I share the somewhat same beliefs as Anya. I believe their could be a Christ and there is a God...the world can’t just be science, there has to be something more. To quote Fox’s poster from the X-Files, “I want to believe.”
Heh. Ya.

 

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but at least you know, just how much pain there is in living
 

Extreme Fanatic




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  posted on 12/4/2003 at 09:57 PM
From what I've seen of life...it seems that each flavour of xian wants to point out how much better they taste than ever other flavour of xian...so there is as much disagreement between the different varieties of xians than there is between xians and non-xians. Yeah for me being "non-denominational" pagan. *muahhhahaha*.....................and girls can I have one of those runny margaritas too? Besides my daddy had always told me not to worry about a hell if there is one...cuz he was going down there with a variety of firefighting equipment and putting out the damned fire when he got there...*chuckles* (he was a fireman for 31 years) so I don't worry about it.

 

____________________
"When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I've never tried before." ~Mae West


 

Extreme Fanatic




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  posted on 13/4/2003 at 06:30 AM
I'm amazed to see how many people have thoughts over this. *almost thought she'd be frowned upon or burnt at the stake or something for bringing up such a topic...hehehe*

I try to do best to open my mind to other possibilities, despite my spiritual beliefs. Its just one of those things that I don't see why people would think such a thing ("Jews are going to Hell" that is). To me, its all, "The same God...get over it." If I'm supposedly going to Hell for what I believe, then that means a lot of other people are likely going too. No one is perfect; as one of callei's stories said, saints have made mistakes and the biggest sociopaths have done something nice.

It just seems people have to find a reason to hate another - isn't there enough hate in this world?

 

Extreme Fanatic




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  posted on 13/4/2003 at 07:00 AM
there is a book... the apocypha... the boks of the bible that were removed by the "CHURCH"... Amongst these books are the testaments of ALL of the apostles... including jude... there was a great deal more than compassion... the incident with the money changers... was a GREAT DEAL more violent than one would think... when he tipped the tables... the thoroughfare in question was over 100 meters long for one... just one of many examples... find the book, read it... it is fascinating

<-- me for getting into a religious discussion... and before any one brings up spirituality versus religion religion: 1 )Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe. 2)A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship. 3)The life or condition of a person in a religious order. 4)A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader. 5)A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion ... I know, I'm too literal for my own good...

Feral

 

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The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.

Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist

 

Extreme Fanatic




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  posted on 13/4/2003 at 08:37 AM
Anya there are very few "practicing" Christians on this site. so please take that into account in the responses that you get. We have pagans, agnostics, Jewish, anamistics, satanists,wiccans, athiests, and i think some muslem as well. Many of the people here can point out major flaws (as they see them) in that religion and are willing to argue obscure points of dogma or history. But they arent part of the religion so they are speaking as outsiders.

In one way this is the perfect place to ask why you have to hate people to be Christian, since we can tell you from the outsiders point of view. given the chance, some of us will go on and on about it. Christian bashing is a popular sport and a way for some of us to deal with the hate and violence that we get from Christians from day to day.

but in another way we arent (barring those few Christians that we do have) for exactly that same reason. We can only talk aboutit the same way we would talk about living under water. We arent part of the religion, we dont understand it as faith (as compared to a religion whos purpose is to control populations) and dont live by its rules. We cant help you understand why Christian rules are "good" or why certain parts of the dogma are "good" or give any justification for that system of population control OR that faith.

If you want Christian justification or explaination of a certain point of dogma you may have to go somewhere else (or email me for the Christians'emails). If you want to start to step away from the lable "Christian" and its dogma then this is a good place to ask.

this was more long winded than usual....

 

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Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires away.

 

Extreme Fanatic




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  posted on 13/4/2003 at 08:48 AM
Anya, your dad is great
Honestly I feel absolutely no reason for me to restrain myself in hopes of a better place when I kick off. I figure why bother, I'll know when I'm dead, and if I spend my whole damned life minding my p's and q's I"m gonna be REALLY PISSED if all I see is nothing. It can go pretty much several ways for little old me: The mormons are right, and there IS not Hell, in which case I simply land in the less cool part of "heaven", which is fine by me. At least I won't have to wear regullated underpants for eternity; The Buddhists were right, and I'll just keep coming back until I learn not to fuck up anymore, which is also cool because maybe I'll come back extremely wealthy or a supermodel *crosses fingers*;The christians were right and I'm heading straight to hell, which is fine by me because FINALLY my feet will be warm; God IS actually "all forgiving" and I'm fine no matter what I do as long as I'm not REALLY REALLY bad at heart...*cough*; enter infinity a zillion different cults and religions that would have an adverse effect on me blah blah blah.

EVERYONE (for the most part) thinks that their flavor of god pudding is better than the next. That's part of the fun, and besides, if they didn't have people to convert, they'd get real bored real fast. There wouldn't be a point to it anymore. Just like "evil". There's always a rally against "evil", an eternal battle...did they ever stop to think what else they'd have to do for fun on a saturday afternoon if they actually succeeded? I mean hell, who has kept the catholic church in biz and it's followers in check throughout the eons the most other than evil?

OH, and I watched an extremely hillarious exchange between colin quinn and john stewart on comedy central, it was "passover vs easter". Colin said something about rabis, to which john replied "well at least when our kids talk about their rabis they don't have to use anatomically correct dolls". *snort*

 

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Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.

 

Extreme Fanatic




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  posted on 13/4/2003 at 11:36 AM
Yeah that was a bit why I was hesitant on posting this topic in the first place - I know I'll likely get labels or something on the lines. For Christian bashing, I was on that road before so I don't take it as personal as I would when I was 12.

However, not everyone thinks like that - if I did offend anyone by bringing up this topic, I'm sorry; it was something that has been totally brought up by people in this town that left a giant question mark above my head. If anyone thinks I'm taking this discussion too far, don't hesitate to demand me to stop and I'll move onto another philosophical subject.

 

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  posted on 13/4/2003 at 12:04 PM
One tiny problem with Jews going to hell...maybe I missed something, but my Judaism (Rogueism, since Judaism was named after Juda anyway) has no hell since that concept is introduced in the Paulist writings and the rest of what is commonly called "New Testament".
 
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