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Anya
Extreme Fanatic   Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 12/4/2003 at 11:15 AM |
Am I a "fanatical Christian"? No. I was agnostic not so long ago, but I
do believe in a creator and consider Christ a bodhistava (spelling?) for a
far and wide term. However, I'm not religious - I'm spiritual (there's a
big difference, in fact without spirituality there'd be no religion in
general). But for whatever reason, a handful of suppose "Christians"
believe that Jews are going to go to Hell for not believing in Christ being
the Son of the One Above. This is somewhat amusing...yet somewhat annoying
at the same time (should guess how much it's been brought up to annoy me).
Probably a redundant topic to bring up, but when did so... "compassionate"
people start condemning others just for not going fanatically with their
beliefs?
I think Christ taught more of compassion - not this hate and strong and out
judgement of other people. Either way, I would like to style this more
philosophical than religious...if people do not mind:
What is wrong with this picture?
I'm far from religious, as I said. In fact, I do not care if anyone lacks
spirituality or not...but for the sake of a philosophical discussion over
this and the folklore around it. ____________________
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Sticupus
Fanatic   Posts: 254 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 12/4/2003 at 01:13 PM |
| Well, Christians should be going to Hell for worshiping and believing Jesus
is God (but who cares about technicalities, actually reading and
comprehending the Bible?). ____________________
The OBOLISK is Divine.
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Merry_Widow
Fanatic  Posts: 598 Registered: 24/8/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 12/4/2003 at 02:16 PM |
Apparently you don't, Stic. Nor do you pay attention to Christian doctrine
as a whole. Go look up The Council of Nicea.
Most Christians I know do not think that Jews are damned. Hell, even the
bible says they aren't.
Any kind of fanatic or fundamentalist is going to start over looking those
annoying little traits like compassion and understanding. Unfortunately,
they are the ones who make the most noise, claiming to know and comprehend
all there is. I would suggest ignoring them, and finding friends who are
willing to talk and discuss different beliefs, admitting they don't know
everything about another set doctrine without getting all angry. I never
have more fun than when I have conversations like those.
Just stay away from the Jerry Falwells of any religion and you'll find your
blood pressure staying at a much more healthy level. ____________________
Okay, dazzle me.
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Sticupus
Fanatic Posts: 254 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 12/4/2003 at 02:38 PM |
| Ummm, yes I have read the bibble. Perhaps you should read the Ten
Commandments and look up the historical origin of the holy trinity. I think
someone needs to rim me. ____________________
The OBOLISK is Divine.
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 12/4/2003 at 02:55 PM |
There are fanatics in almost every religion, and their fanaticism is sprung
from their own personal agenda not so much as faith. Faith is an easy way
to grease the wheels to set their own ideals in motion, nothing more.
Whether they're after power, money, recognition, or control, it rarely has
little or nothing to do with faith or the religion they profess. The only
difference between Jews and Christians? The New Testament. Period.
They're both cool with each other until Jesus came into play, and that is
where the split occured..man even Jesus himself was a Jew. Try reminding
one of those "jews burn in hell" types of that fact. They seem to forget
that little nuance. The rest my friends, has been one fun bloody
history.
____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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Anya
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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 posted on 12/4/2003 at 04:19 PM |
*nods vigorously to this* Very good points! It just saddens me to see
others spiritually raped and/or persecuted (or prosecuted, depending where
you live) just because of the littlest things. 'If you're not a "devoted
Christian", you're going to Hell; if you decide to have permarriage sex
while being a believer, you're a sinner and thus going to Hell! '*says the
last phrase in great and enthusiastic sarcasm* These strong judgements get
old.  If people
look, there's actually lines saying "Do not judge, lest be judged." in the
Bible. Also a lot of people tend to forget that a lot of the Old Testament
was more of stories written by men - along with some other fragments of the
document itself. Oh well. But this is why I use to hate Christianity so
much - the people representing it made it seem like slavery and a set of
rules that you have to follow or go to Hell...not to mention rules not many
follow themself, if they're honest. Right now I'm in decent
terms...despite the people who mistake spiritualness for religious, but
that's my share of weed.
It all comes to this eventually - who is to say what is right or wrong? I
mean I hope my ways are or were "right", but we all wont know until the
end. I'd rather treat others like I want to be treated than condemn others
when I have problems myself. But not everyone is going to agree with my
way, I'll accept that.
Two core things people fight over the most in this world - religion and
ethnic background. For me, they're the most ignorant things to fight over.
Why ethnicity? You can't change what someone is, no matter how much you
decide to peel their skin white. Religion? What makes you any better if
you spiritually rape someone just because they follow a different path?
While you do this, while you may drive the person mad in the process, only
they can change themself.
A couple days ago, a man I loved rejected me for I "was not Christian." I
went over a frenzy, being in an imbalance between heart, mind, and soul and
looked for "religion that'd fit me". Then I realized my total fuck up - it
isn't me to do that. It may be a miscommunication problem (I'm going to
find out myself in a few days), but if he cannot take me for who I am, then
he not only doesn't follow the teachings of the bodhistava, he doesn't
really love me...especially if he's going to take me for such materialistic
reasons.
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Anya
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 12/4/2003 at 04:25 PM |
| If anyone remember the story of Sarah and Abraham's Mistress (the Mistress
was kicked out of the house after old crone Sarah finally had a kid), that
was the core thing that Jews and Arabs fight over for many years (of
course, some are lured in by more reasons by now probably). On my behalf,
I think its' silly for the sheer fact that this crap happened ages ago.
More or less, this is the historical (and likely religious) reason, anyway. ____________________
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Closetgothbabe
Member   Posts: 189 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 12/4/2003 at 04:26 PM |
| Im going to hell and I am taking everyone with me!!!!!!!! muhahahaha ____________________
Guns are good, Guns are great...Kill the people that you hate!
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 12/4/2003 at 07:24 PM |
Don't worry babe, I'm saving you a lawnchair by the tortured souls barbecue
pit.
We'll be the only ones there with margaritas....runny margaritas, but well,
given the circumstances.... ____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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Closetgothbabe
Member Posts: 189 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 12/4/2003 at 07:47 PM |
| LOL, who could ask for more? Bar-B-Que tortured soul and runny margaritas,
with a big lake of fire for a nice view ::sighs:: This is making me feel
all warm and fuzzy inside! ____________________
Guns are good, Guns are great...Kill the people that you hate!
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KatB
Fanatic  Posts: 241 Registered: 16/7/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 12/4/2003 at 07:50 PM |
Anya, if you are serious about this question, I suggest you find a forum -
preferably in real life - with actual Christian people, and ask them. Most
of them are very open to discussions, especially if you dig up the more
enlightened ones, and you might actually have a really nice talk.
I have known all shades of Christians - one of whom I count as my best
friends - allthough I practice stuff most of them consider I'll go straight
down the elevator for. Each to thir own.
The only thing I ever felt especially bad about was when I close friend
took his own life.
His parents were fundamental Christians, and in addition to the loss of a
very dear son they have to live with the fact that - according to their
belief - he is condemned forever.
I can't even start to imagine how bad that must feel. ____________________
All stressed out and no one to choke...
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KatB
Fanatic Posts: 241 Registered: 16/7/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 12/4/2003 at 07:52 PM |
Oh and girls, I'll join that barbecue, roasting heretics & downing
runny Marguaritas, thank you very much  ____________________
All stressed out and no one to choke...
/>
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AloneSoul
Fanatic  Posts: 522 Registered: 6/7/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 12/4/2003 at 08:21 PM |
I find it funny how “holy wars”are fought over our “messiahs” Christ,
Mohammed etc.
I also find it funny how some Christians believe that Jews are going to
hell for not believing Christ was the “son of god”...even though Christ was
Jewish.
Christianity in general states that anyone who strays even alittle from the
“faith” must be saved. If not, they will be going to hell for being a
dissident towards “god.” Think of it this way: It’s a way to keep people in
check during the Middle Ages and further back depending on which big
religion was the current big thing.
Today, many people still follow this way. Could you say this is a case of
anti-semanism(spelling ack)? I doubt it really. Could it be a grudge
against the Jewish populous for killing Christianity's savior? Who knows.
Honestly, this varies from person to person but in anyway you put it, it’s
wrong to say you’re going to Hell for believing what you want to believe.
- On a side note: I share the somewhat same beliefs as Anya. I believe
their could be a Christ and there is a God...the world can’t just be
science, there has to be something more. To quote Fox’s poster from the
X-Files, “I want to believe.”
Heh. Ya. ____________________
 but at least you know, just how much pain there is in living
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Starlight
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 618 Registered: 27/9/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 12/4/2003 at 09:57 PM |
From what I've seen of life...it seems that each flavour of xian wants to
point out how much better they taste than ever other flavour of xian...so
there is as much disagreement between the different varieties of xians than
there is between xians and non-xians. Yeah for me being
"non-denominational" pagan. *muahhhahaha*.....................and girls can
I have one of those runny margaritas too? Besides my daddy had always told
me not to worry about a hell if there is one...cuz he was going down there
with a variety of firefighting equipment and putting out the damned fire
when he got there...*chuckles* (he was a fireman for 31 years) so I don't
worry about it. 
____________________
"When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I've never
tried before." ~Mae West
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Anya
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 13/4/2003 at 06:30 AM |
I'm amazed to see how many people have thoughts over this. *almost thought
she'd be frowned upon or burnt at the stake or something for bringing up
such a topic...hehehe*
I try to do best to open my mind to other possibilities, despite my
spiritual beliefs. Its just one of those things that I don't see why
people would think such a thing ("Jews are going to Hell" that is). To me,
its all, "The same God...get over it." If I'm supposedly going to Hell for
what I believe, then that means a lot of other people are likely going too.
No one is perfect; as one of callei's stories said, saints have made
mistakes and the biggest sociopaths have done something nice.
It just seems people have to find a reason to hate another - isn't there
enough hate in this world?
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 13/4/2003 at 07:00 AM |
there is a book... the apocypha... the boks of the bible that were removed
by the "CHURCH"... Amongst these books are the testaments of ALL of the
apostles... including jude... there was a great deal more than
compassion... the incident with the money changers... was a GREAT DEAL more
violent than one would think... when he tipped the tables... the
thoroughfare in question was over 100 meters long for one... just one of
many examples... find the book, read it... it is fascinating
 <-- me
for getting into a religious discussion... and before any one brings up
spirituality versus religion religion: 1 )Belief in and reverence for a
supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the
universe. 2)A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief
and worship. 3)The life or condition of a person in a religious order. 4)A
set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual
leader. 5)A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or
conscientious devotion ... I know, I'm too literal for my own good...
Feral
____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
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callei
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 13/4/2003 at 08:37 AM |
Anya there are very few "practicing" Christians on this site. so please
take that into account in the responses that you get. We have pagans,
agnostics, Jewish, anamistics, satanists,wiccans, athiests, and i think
some muslem as well. Many of the people here can point out major flaws (as
they see them) in that religion and are willing to argue obscure points of
dogma or history. But they arent part of the religion so they are speaking
as outsiders.
In one way this is the perfect place to ask why you have to hate people to
be Christian, since we can tell you from the outsiders point of view. given
the chance, some of us will go on and on about it. Christian bashing is a
popular sport and a way for some of us to deal with the hate and violence
that we get from Christians from day to day.
but in another way we arent (barring those few Christians that we do have)
for exactly that same reason. We can only talk aboutit the same way we
would talk about living under water. We arent part of the religion, we
dont understand it as faith (as compared to a religion whos purpose is to
control populations) and dont live by its rules. We cant help you
understand why Christian rules are "good" or why certain parts of the dogma
are "good" or give any justification for that system of population control
OR that faith.
If you want Christian justification or explaination of a certain point of
dogma you may have to go somewhere else (or email me for the
Christians'emails). If you want to start to step away from the lable
"Christian" and its dogma then this is a good place to ask.
this was more long winded than usual.... ____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away.
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 13/4/2003 at 08:48 AM |
Anya, your dad is great
Honestly I feel absolutely no reason for me to restrain myself in hopes of
a better place when I kick off. I figure why bother, I'll know when I'm
dead, and if I spend my whole damned life minding my p's and q's I"m gonna
be REALLY PISSED if all I see is nothing. It can go pretty much several
ways for little old me: The mormons are right, and there IS not Hell, in
which case I simply land in the less cool part of "heaven", which is fine
by me. At least I won't have to wear regullated underpants for eternity;
The Buddhists were right, and I'll just keep coming back until I learn not
to fuck up anymore, which is also cool because maybe I'll come back
extremely wealthy or a supermodel *crosses fingers*;The christians were
right and I'm heading straight to hell, which is fine by me because FINALLY
my feet will be warm; God IS actually "all forgiving" and I'm fine no
matter what I do as long as I'm not REALLY REALLY bad at heart...*cough*;
enter infinity a zillion different cults and religions that would have an
adverse effect on me blah blah blah.
EVERYONE (for the most part) thinks that their flavor of god pudding is
better than the next. That's part of the fun, and besides, if they didn't
have people to convert, they'd get real bored real fast. There wouldn't be
a point to it anymore. Just like "evil". There's always a rally against
"evil", an eternal battle...did they ever stop to think what else they'd
have to do for fun on a saturday afternoon if they actually succeeded? I
mean hell, who has kept the catholic church in biz and it's followers in
check throughout the eons the most other than evil?
OH, and I watched an extremely hillarious exchange between colin quinn and
john stewart on comedy central, it was "passover vs easter". Colin said
something about rabis, to which john replied "well at least when our kids
talk about their rabis they don't have to use anatomically correct dolls".
*snort*
____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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Anya
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 13/4/2003 at 11:36 AM |
Yeah that was a bit why I was hesitant on posting this topic in the first
place - I know I'll likely get labels or something on the lines. For
Christian bashing, I was on that road before so I don't take it as personal
as I would when I was 12.
However, not everyone thinks like that - if I did offend anyone by bringing
up this topic, I'm sorry; it was something that has been totally brought up
by people in this town that left a giant question mark above my head. If
anyone thinks I'm taking this discussion too far, don't hesitate to demand
me to stop and I'll move onto another philosophical subject.
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Rogue
Member  Posts: 199 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 13/4/2003 at 12:04 PM |
One tiny problem with Jews going to hell...maybe I missed something, but my
Judaism (Rogueism, since Judaism was named after Juda anyway) has no hell
since that concept is introduced in the Paulist writings and the rest of
what is commonly called "New Testament".
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