Am I a "fanatical Christian"? No. I was agnostic not so long ago, but I
do believe in a creator and consider Christ a bodhistava (spelling?) for a
far and wide term. However, I'm not religious - I'm spiritual (there's a
big difference, in fact without spirituality there'd be no religion in
general). But for whatever reason, a handful of suppose "Christians"
believe that Jews are going to go to Hell for not believing in Christ being
the Son of the One Above. This is somewhat amusing...yet somewhat annoying
at the same time (should guess how much it's been brought up to annoy me).
Probably a redundant topic to bring up, but when did so... "compassionate"
people start condemning others just for not going fanatically with their
beliefs?
I think Christ taught more of compassion - not this hate and strong and out
judgement of other people. Either way, I would like to style this more
philosophical than religious...if people do not mind:
What is wrong with this picture?
I'm far from religious, as I said. In fact, I do not care if anyone lacks
spirituality or not...but for the sake of a philosophical discussion over
this and the folklore around it.
____________________
Abbadon
Fanatic
Posts: 499 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 8/5/2004 at 03:43 AM
At last, an interesting topic. I'm pretty sure the Jewish people are doomed
to damnation. But hey, that just me.
BB.
Abbadon
____________________ Light is changing to shadow, and casting a shroud over all we have known.
callei
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 7/5/2004 at 08:59 PM
z24qbcd1, its nice of you to have taken the time and effort to tell us
about the Jewish View on that "jesus is a jew" nonsense that so many of the
less educated (in thier own history and faith) have. for the record, he was
also a bad roman. I really appriciate that. to the best of my knowledge we
have three people that follow the jewish faith here.
i doubt you will be back to check on this, but i am going to say it
anyways. Most of the people in the world, including those that are already
dead and those that havent been born yet, have never heard of your god.
they dont care about your (and i use "your" to mean all the semi-hemi-demi-
monothesits out there) god. They try to be nice to you because you are so
impoverished in things to believe in and love.
____________________ Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away.
z24qbcd1
Coward
Posts: 1 Registered: 7/5/2004 Status: Offline
posted on 7/5/2004 at 02:47 PM
I had to respond to this thread. I am a relgious Jew (Jew by choice for
religous reasons, I converted two years ago) and many only know that
Judaism discounts Jesus with any divinty and thats all they know.
First of all, I (and most other Jews) resent the fact that people associate
Jesus as a Jew. He wasn't. Christians feel he was a Jew. Jews view him (for
the most part) as a rebel, going against the laws G-d gave Moses in the
Torah. (The first five books of the Bible). If you want to "tag" him as a
Jew, then he's a TERRIBLE Jew. Enough said about that.
Hell, what is this place? The Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) mention
nothing about a firely place where G-d's advisory reigns. Isn't G-d
powerful enough to destroy his enemies? The entire Hell, Satan (Satan as
G-d's enemy) is rubbish in the eyes of Judaism. If anything, Judaism
associates Satan as G-d's cheif prosecutor who sometimes is over-eager to
get convictions.
Also, the Ten Commandments and most other commandments in the Hebrew
Scriptures only apply to the Children of Israel. Notice the preamble of the
Ten Commandments (By many which is part of the First Commandment). G-d
reminds that He lead the Children of Israel out of slavery and there shall
be no other gods but Him. The laws that apply to non-Jews are best shown at
a very nice web site: www.asknoah.org. I suggest you check it out!
Finally and most importantly, we are all created in His image. Not just
Jews, or Christians or Muslims, but ALL people. The Talmud states it
beautifully. It was asked why did G-d created man with only one person
orgianlly, that person being Adam? The sages state it was because no one
could ever say that their bloodline was better than anothers.
Shalom.
____________________
Zero
Fanatic
Posts: 459 Registered: 15/2/2004 Status: Offline
posted on 8/3/2004 at 01:29 PM
We heathens gotta stick together you know.
____________________ "It is a fool's prerogative to utter truths that no one else will speak." ~
The Sandman, Dream Country
Schizo
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 897 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 8/3/2004 at 03:16 AM
I know what you're talking about, Zero. I can't think of the particular
passage you mentioned, but one I've always loved (in the King James
Version- you may not agree with the accuracy of the translation, but damn
the language is beautiful!)
It states that Jesus was "a gluttoneous man and a wine-bibber, a friend of
publicans and sinners". Awesome.
____________________ "You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the
dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest of
girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"
____________________ The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
Zero
Fanatic
Posts: 459 Registered: 15/2/2004 Status: Offline
posted on 7/3/2004 at 09:36 PM
I find that very interesting....you know....that you can actually pick up
a Bible and read it every so often...I wish I had the motivation to learn
more about the different religions out there.
Not many christians would do that, take a look at other religions, Many of
us just beleive what we're handed and others of us don't care all too
much...to be honest I don't really care all too much about religion.....I
do hate when people take it too far and start telling me that Harry Potter
is Evil.
Oh yeah true story......Someone once told me (when I was a kid) the Smurphs
were devil worship (the person wasn't a kid). I couldn't watch the Smurphs
for a while after that....not until I wised up a bit.
____________________ "It is a fool's prerogative to utter truths that no one else will speak."
~
The Sandman, Dream Country
Anya
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 7/3/2004 at 09:19 PM
No, you haven't offended me at all Zero. I agree with you.
I have respect for Christians who follow Jesus' teachings and are not
fanatical. In fact, I sometimes still skim through the Bible for the heck
of it and I'm not even Christian.
Zero
Fanatic
Posts: 459 Registered: 15/2/2004 Status: Offline
posted on 7/3/2004 at 08:29 PM
I think that people tend to forget that there have been some good things
that come from chritianity....even though there're asses out there that use
the bible as weapon....It's not the fault of the bible it's the fault human
comprehension. I always thought that the bible was more of a guide that
sometimes you could look to for advice....I do admit that in it are a lot
wrath and vengence, but maybe that's put there for us to look at and say
"hey, that's wrong...killing in the name of god is wrong". More than likley
the answers to lifes problems aren't all found in the bible....in fact did
you know that Jesus favored the "worldly" more then the church
folk....(there is an actual passage in the bible that says so. I know it
sounds weird but there is, i just cant remember it.....learned it from
Bible study).....something about being more knowledgeable or whatever. I
think that mainly most religions are pure and innocent. But then people
aren't perfect and can't think beyond themselves sometimes and use religion
for their own benefit.
(sorry if I came off as preachy or if i was being offensive)
____________________ "It is a fool's prerogative to utter truths that no one else will
speak."
~
that's the thing... if they allow one, they must allow the other... and...
the rest... rarely wanna make waves
____________________ The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
Anya
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 7/3/2004 at 12:59 AM
That's what I never got, Feral. People will allow all these Christian
clubs, but there's rarely any or less likely to be a Wiccan, Hindu,
Buddhist, or Shinto club out there. Oh well. Each to their own, I guess.
I never hear anyone try in this area, anyway.
dead-cell
Fanatic
Posts: 344 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 7/3/2004 at 12:49 AM
Hmm...excuse me but this is a bit off topic.
I came across this site...well some of it seems rational, other parts look
"Holier Than Thou." Thoughts opinions?
ok... lemme ask this... is having a satanist club, a wiccan practicing
circle and a meeting place for those who think that oreos are the salvation
of the universe all ok?
____________________ The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
Anya
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 6/3/2004 at 10:45 AM
"Not all who say 'Lord, Lord' will go to Heaven, but those who do the will
of my Father." (Matthews)
I always liked that line. I think I'll be having to use it against people
soon...in my school, there's a "I agree with Sam" movement that involves
bringing Christianity back. Some kids are already preaching. I don't mind
them expressing their beliefs, but I heard some, "Oh but you'll be double
the person with God on your side" and things like that...them wanting to
have their own Christian club is okay, but I don't want it to become
fundamental, lmao. Otherwise I'll be pissing a lot of them off...
I have my beliefs, but that's what faith is for. If I'm wrong, well, I'm
human and I'll find out. If I'm right, then I will continue on, feeling
confident that I am right. No one can know, until the end, though...if
that.
Schizo
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 897 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 6/3/2004 at 02:21 AM
Pretty stupid, huh? I mean, if you believe that heaven and hell are on the
line, you'd think you'd be pretty careful to make SURE you were doing the
right thing, instead of jumping to conclusions or following some other
human's say-so. But the only exersise most fanatics seem to get now is
jumping to conclusions.
____________________ "You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the
dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest
of
girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"
the real problem is... no one really reads the book anymore...
____________________ The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
/>
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
Schizo
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 897 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 4/3/2004 at 03:24 AM
As far as I've ever been able to figure out from the Bible (and please
remember, I'm kind of an expert, no fault of my own!) Jews as a race are
not barred from Heaven's gates.
The qualifications for Heaven seem to be A. belief that Jesus Christ is the
Son of God and that He died for your sins, and B. allowing God to control
your life. (Belief not being enough, seeing that even Satan believes that.
He has to - he saw it happen.)
However, there are opportunities for those that never had a chance to hear
the story, or maybe even for those that had the story presented in such a
sick or twisted way that it was impossible to accept. There are several
passages that seem to hint this, one about finding the law of God in the
natural laws of the Universe, and another about the chap who never called
Jesus "Lord", but still made it to Heaven because he acted like he did.
Conversely, there are those that say "Lord" and get kicked out of Heaven,
because their actions don't live up to their words, indicating a severe
lack of sincerity.
In the end, the decision is up to God, not to the people on earth.
That, as far as I've seen straight from the Bible, is the Christian
qualifications for Heaven. So it would seem that all those who demonize
the entire Jewish race, or try to condemn people for not using the right
words or names, or even for disbelieving the whole Christian story and
structure of deities are contradicting their own guidebook. You, the
accused apostate, may in fact be a better Christian than the accuser.
Of course, I'm not trying to claim that the Bible is even right when it
says this stuff. For all I know, there may be no heaven or hell. I'm just
trying to describe what the source of Christianity says.
Personally, I don't know. I kind of have a feeling that the Bible isn't
nearly as necessary as so many Christians claim. If Christianity is true,
you can find it without a book, otherwise that gives readers a distinct
advantage over nonreaders when it comes to getting to heaven, which is
seriously twisted.
If Christianity is true, then I am OK, because it says in the Bible that
those who seek the truth will find it. And all I'm doing is seeking the
truth.
And if Christianity isn't true, then I'm still seeking the truth, so I
can't go too far wrong, can I?
____________________ "You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and
the
/>
dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest
of
____________________ The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
/>
/>
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
Anya
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 3/3/2004 at 10:33 PM
According to all the Jewish sources I have AND the Jews I have talked to,
no, they do not believe in Hell. They do, however, believe in Gehenna,
which is a place where the soul is clensed from its sins. Then the soul
goes to a level on Paradise (I think that's how it goes)...
Gehenna, if compared to anything of Christian beliefs, would be much like
Purgatory, which I think for the most part, is Catholic.
Then again, like Christianity, Jews have their own little cults. Hells,
all the ones I talked to do not even acknowledge Satan the same way as
Christians do.