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Author: Subject: You're going to hell!

Fanatic





Posts: 376
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 11/2/2003 at 09:12 AM
I've been talking to a few people lately and it seems that I'm going to hell for pretty much anything I do! (yeay me) Is anyone here so devoutly Christian that they believe having sex before marriage or being gay/bi/lesbian means you'll go to hell. I read a forum where a girl was asking advice on whether she should have sex with her boyfriend and 99% of the replies said something along the lines of 'you'll go to hell' and 'you aren't Christian if you do'. Don't you think that's a little harsh?

Also the whole 'gays are evil' thing... what's up with that? Again the people I've talked to have shown no compassion for people of a different orientation to them, and I'd just like to know why? Other than the crappy cop-out excuse that 'God said so', why the hell should gays be considered evil?!?

I just can't get my head round why people would want to think like this, why they would love a God that condemns people for 'sins' that are really not harmful at all. How can they accept something that was writte down by men, *men*! How can something so fallible dictate their whole lives?

 

____________________
Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life.

 

Fanatic




Posts: 598
Registered: 24/8/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 11/2/2003 at 09:38 AM
I've been raised Lutheran and I attend a Catholic university, so I feel fairly competent in saying this:
They are all judgmental elitist punk ass bitches. They are going off things said in the old testament when God was still laying out the righteous bitch slaps. Just kindly remind them of the new covenant that was made, that there is only one completely unforgivable sin, and then quote them a few handy verses. My favorites would be 1 Ch 16:33, Ps 7:11, and the ever popular Mt 7:1.
If you don't want to have to look them up youself, just say the word and I 'll message them to you.
Trust me, nothing compares to the look of a militiant Christian having their own words shoved back in their face by a "punk kid."
And usually, these people don't express such views because of religion, they just use it as an excuse. Most of the noisy fucks out there have issues of their own that they are too afraid or lazy to deal with, so they play the justification game. I mean, no where in the bible does it say that gays are evil. Both that and the premarital is generally viewed as one of the social no-no's of the time.
Just another example of how fanaticism can screw up a perfectly good dealie.

 

____________________
Okay, dazzle me.

 

Member




Posts: 189
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 11/2/2003 at 10:39 AM
There is nothing but those kind of people where I live, so you can only imagine the looks me and my sister get. Southern Baptist, Pentecostal Christians.......wow the heated arguments I get into with these people is unreal. I mean come on are you gonna marry a man/woman without having sex first?? Hell no that would be insane, what if you arent sexually compatible in any way. Then there is the whole not getting a divorce, so your stuck with someone that does nothing for you sexually. I dont see doing any of that myself! There is a guy that lives next to me that goes to the pentecostal church here and he annoys the fuck outta me almost every day with this same bullshit. He also has a huge crush on me....can you believe that on little ol evil me!! Now that has to be some kind of sin right there in itself. He should stick to the church going girls cause my ass isnt going ever! This is the funny part of the whole thing is he preaches to me all the time about the no sex before marriage. Then all of a sudden this lady starts coming to church and says she is also a christian, she is married and then starts having bible study every night with him. Ok so her husband isnt there and they dont go to her house and do bible study.....muhahahaha. Then he tells me they have been sleeping together, like I didnt already figure that out. You can talk the talk buddy but you cant walk the walk...hell yeah!! I told him dont ever preach to me about anything ever again!

Ok I have rambled on about this but man if you only knew half the shit these people really do you would laugh your ass off at them. They really are very full of shit most the time. I have yet to see any of them that dont do going to hell shit! So hey I will see you in hell ok!! LOL

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 856
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 11/2/2003 at 10:52 AM
Wait...there is too a stricture against homosexuality in the bible, it's a commandment too...Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors ass.
Hahahaha! Alright, now that thats over with.
My dad is a premiere zealot, used to beat the shit out of me while qouting bible versus and explaining to me all the ways I had disappointed him AND God.
The best I can figure from my experiances is that a lot of people...who are ignorant, cowardly, biased and all together violently foolish are difficult to control, and hard to live with. Somebody got an idea, and made a religion that draws all these fucknuts together into a single community. All their little preacher boy has to say is "Jump" and they reply with the "How high?" It's a cause of a charimsatic leader with near absolute control over a mass of spiritual retards. I think it's original purpose was to keep 'em out of everyone elses hair. That got kinda' screwed up I guess. Shit, Christians of any sort never had that great of a rep. Look at all the old civilizations that hated their guts...and if Sodom and Gomorah were still around, they would too. It's all about control...or the giving up of it rather. These people are fucking incapable of thinking for themselves, so they go and join something that does it for them. After years and years of assholes flocking to it's banner, you can figure how a fairly well thought out institution becomes tainted and ridiculous.
It's kind of sad...every so often I meet someone who really does try an uphold the tenets of their faith...and they ain't bad. But thats a needle in a haystack.
I think a whole hell of a lot of them are going to be very surprised when they die.

 

____________________
In the valley of the Goats, the Goat Fucker is King

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 648
Registered: 24/9/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 11/2/2003 at 11:20 AM
I was thinking of not even posting to this due to myself being a Christian, but I will. I will tell you that I do not condem people for their actions. It is not my place to judge anyone based on what they do or have done. To everyone his own way. I also do not condem people for having a different faith than I do. I do have to say though that I am getting tired of the people in the church that I go to. Not that all churches are like mine, but mine has grown to finally piss me off. The youth group is full of people that have been going there for a few years, and just a few of us that have been going to that same church since we were children, I am one of those children. I have never fit. I have always been shunned by the stuck up snobby bitches, and have only dated one guy that went to my church, and he turned out to be a complete asshole. My family and I have been thinking of finding other churches, but I did have a few friends that I go to school with, none of which were actually Christians(until my friend Jessica just converted). It was better with them, but we all were becoming quite bored after a while, and my friends would always get in trouble for talking during the sermon, and they were only whispering. Well, these friends have left the church, Jessica will be back soon because she was out for nite school. I am thinking of switching churches. I have thought about it too, I don't have to go to church to learn about what God said or the parables that Jesus used to teach, I can read it for myself, or watch tv on church and not have to worry about being hurt or shunned by a bunch of preppy bitches and assholes! I am tired of it! There, that is my rant here.

 

____________________
"People always say what we are looking for is a meaning for life…I don't think that's what we're looking for. I think what we're looking for is the experience of being alive." -Joseph Campbell

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 897
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 11/2/2003 at 01:37 PM
I know. I went to an ultra-strict semi-cultish church, and I still get flak even now that I've escaped. I have to put up with my parents snide comments on the way I live my life, only partially hidden under a cloak of compassion. They just can't even conceive of the possibility that what I am doing is OK. Oddly enough, I also get comments from my Mom that I "know what is true", almost as if she thinks I still believe all that stuff. I don't think I'll ever be able to convince her that I've put the Christian church behind her.

I've retained a few bits and pieces of my old beliefs, but not anything that can really be labeled "Christian." I just feel that, if something is true, it can stand up to experimentation. If it's true, it will work. You shouldn't be afraid to test it out. And I've tested it out, and found that a lot of the things they tell you, such as sinners being miserable inside, are just out and out lies. I was far more miserable as a Christian, and then made to feel more miserable, because of course it must be my fault I was miserable. I must not have been having enough faith or something.

Bullshit.

Plus, all the times that "miracles" occured as a result of "prayer" have been duplicated and thensome just by having a little self-confidence.

If God exists, you don't need a book to find him. If certain things are wrong, you don't need a book to pinpoint them for you. Life itself ought to show us.

 

____________________
"You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest of girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"

 

Fanatic




Posts: 376
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 11/2/2003 at 03:58 PM
I know Christains that are fucking *brilliant* people, my nan (the one I live with) and two of my best friends to name but a few. They believe in God, and go to church and generally live their lives in a 'good' way... and they *don't judge other people*!

As for the people I've been talking with recently, they sicken me... literally, I felt my stomach churn at some of the things they said. For example one guy was going on about how he thought for himself, and didn't need anyone to tell him what Christianity was about and what was good/evil as he had found out for himself. Then he went on to say his views were based on what he'd read from the bible and how he'd been brought up. How the fuck is that thinking for yourself?

On that point, how can you figure out for yourself that gays are evil? How the hell can you say that and expect to be taken seriously? Then there was the whole 'Satanists are evil' thing. I know two Satanists personally (not really enough to speak for the whole lot, but anyway...) and they are the nicest, most intelligent and caring people I could hope to meet. But apparently, it doesn't matter how you *act*... you're evil just by being a Satanist. Just like all the fucked up Reverands who go around raping young boys are good because, hell; they're Christian - the sun shines out of their arse!

I like to think (maybe wrongly) that I'm a fairly intelligent person, but I cannot figure out the logic in some of these arguements! The Bible is right because God dictated it... God is always right because the Bible says so... the Bible is right because God dictated it... viscious circle really, no? Also the arguement that the Bible is infallible because it is the word of God. Come on! MAN wrote the Bible. Men who had their own prejudices and their own private agendas and this work is supposed to be taken 100% literally?

Merry_Widow: If you'd like to e-mail me those quotes I'd be very grateful! My email is [email protected] It'd be good to see what they have to say about those!!

CGB: LMAO at that guy you mentioned! "Do as I say, not as I do" is a fitting quote I believe!

Dolorosa: I'm sorry about you and your father, that must have been a tough childhood. *hugs you* As for the "assholes flocking to it's banner" you couldn't be more right. There are the few people who follow the religion and actually think about it, and about what they're doing and those guys are like the diamonds in the rough. As for the rest of them, the 'blind obedience' ones, I think you're right about the shock that's in store for them when they die! How can someone who practises hatred and prejudice on a daily basis possible expect to be rewarded for it after they die?

MRD: Thank you. Thank you for having the sense not to judge people. *hugs you*

Schizo: I've read your previous posts on Christianity and I think you've always been sensible in your views and actions. "it must be my fault I was miserable"; yet another thing I don't understand about why people would want to pledge blind obedience to God, when it just ends up making them unhappy. Surely religion should help you, allow you to feel better about yourself, not make you suffer because you're disappointing some deity you can't even be sure exists!

This was a very long post! I'm gonna go sleep off my angst/rage now!

 

____________________
Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life.

 

Fanatic




Posts: 598
Registered: 24/8/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 11/2/2003 at 05:13 PM
They are coming at you, sweet stuff...

 

____________________
Okay, dazzle me.

 

Fanatic




Posts: 376
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 12/2/2003 at 12:16 PM
Thank you, I've used one of them already! Oh so handy!

 

____________________
Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life.

 

Administrator




Posts: 317
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Online

  posted on 12/2/2003 at 01:29 PM
Proof that god is always right:

God tells Adam: "Don't eat the apple or you will surely die"
Adam eats apple
Adam proceeds to live another 800 years.
Adam finally dies.

hmmmm.....

 

____________________
So Sayeth Me

 

Fanatic




Posts: 376
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 12/2/2003 at 02:13 PM
Well, he did die didn't he? <jk>

Serisouly though, don't even get me started on that part of the Bible!! I mean, God says 'on the day you eat of that tree you will surely die' (or something like that) Then snakey-baby pops up and says 'no way! You eat that fruit and you'll become like Gods, knowing both good and evil'. Okay... one of them has to be wrong.

Woman eats the fruit and gives some to man to eat and he decides to eat it. They very ungraciously don't pop their clogs. Yahweh comes down to visit them and finds them hiding - they realised they were naked and so felt ashamed. (Why then hell would becoming like Gods make you embarassed about being nakey?) He killed some animals (this nice benevolent, loving God) and gave them the skins to wear, then says 'the man has become like one of us, with his knowledge of good and evil, he must not be allowed to stretch his hand out next and pick from the tree of life and eat some and live forever.' So, err, Yahweh pretty much admits that the snake (Devil) told the truth and that he lied.

Basically in this story, who comes off as the good guy, the benefactor to humanity? God? I think not! The snake/devil? Hells yeah!!!

 

____________________
Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life.

 

Fanatic




Posts: 598
Registered: 24/8/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 12/2/2003 at 04:19 PM
Actually, whe you look at it, both told part of the truth. When you put them together, you get the whole schpeal. They did become like God, or the Gods, whichever you prefer, in that they then became knowledgable of good and evil. But they also did gain mortality. And the desire not to run around nekkid. And painful menstrual periods. And hard labors...
Is it me, or did the penis get off kind of easy? Damn patriarchal standards. Don't even get me going on "the sins of Eve."

 

____________________
Okay, dazzle me.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 897
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 13/2/2003 at 03:51 AM
Actually, the desire to not run around nekkid is acquired in early childhood. My daughter would absolutely love to run (or rather, roll) around nekkid. It makes tickles easier, and toes are more fun when they aren't encased in shoes and socks. If it weren't the middle of a New England winter, I'd let her do it (except the diaper, of course. That would be a disaster waiting to happen!) But after wearing clothes for a few years, and getting yelled at when they decide to go stripping, and not seeing anyone else nekkid, kids learn shame.

And don't get me started on the curse of painful labor! Ooooh my stretched out tummy skin! How cruel could God get? All the guys have to do is work hard to live. Hey, I have to do that too! No fair!

 

____________________
"You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the
dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest of
girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"

 

Fanatic




Posts: 376
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 13/2/2003 at 04:18 AM
Heh heh, original sin is a bastard. And someone once said that you can pretty much excuse yourself from it by claiming to be one of the other people - Yahweh was only one of a pantheon of Gods and the rest... the ones that Cain married into shouldn't have original sin and hence can run round nakey all they want!

I have absolutely no intentions of having children. I'm way too irresponsible for that. Though I guess it's a good thing I think like this *now* because I'm only 17, maybe when I'm about 25-30 I'll start getting broody. *prays to whatever deity is listening* Please not stretch marks!?

 

____________________
Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 893
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 13/2/2003 at 07:33 AM
That's always confused me. If Adam and Eve were the first, and all human life decended from them, then how come, in just a few pages of the bible, they've already invented civilization and herding, had a thousand babies ('cause they speak of cities and other families) and developed all the other necessities for life outside a heavenly garden.

Despite the pain of childbirthing, Eve must have had a LOT of kids...

 

____________________
Piggy's got the Conch!

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 759
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 13/2/2003 at 08:55 AM
what happened to the babies Eve had in Eden?
Do animals KNOW that they are gurting and KNOW that pain is "bad"? is that how/why Eve suddenly developed pain from labor?
where they suddenly embarassed because they had been molested by God? Hiding themselves and thier bodies from thier molester makes sense, if you think about how people act in real life.....

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 648
Registered: 24/9/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 13/2/2003 at 01:59 PM
I had it explained to me this way:

Adam and Eve were not the only two people on Earth, just one couple that the bible focuses on. Why? This I do not know. That is just how it was explained to me when I asked how Cain had kids and who he went and married. I used to laugh and say he imbread with his mom, or perhaps a sister that was unmentioned.

 

____________________
"People always say what we are looking for is a meaning for life…I don't
think that's what we're looking for. I think what we're looking for is the
experience of being alive." -Joseph Campbell

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 897
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 13/2/2003 at 02:39 PM
Sisters generally were unmentioned, if you've noticed!

Of course, if you're going to live 900 odd years, you could probably pop out quite a few kids in that time. Can you imagine that baggy, stretched out tummy poor Eve would have had after about 200 years of constant pregnancies?

And marrying siblings at that point wouldn't have been such a big deal then. The reason it's nasty now, is because of all the disease and disorder-causing genetic defects that can come out of the woodwork with inbreeding. Back then, you can assume that their genetic material was pretty pristine, being freshly made and all that.

At least, that's how it was explained to me. I mean, think about it. Adam and Eve have some 200 kids. That's figuring a 800 year life-span, with a quarter of it fertile, rather like 20 years of a potential 80. That's not even figuring in the fact that they were supposed to have been created as adults, which gives them an extra 200 or so breeding years. But we won't even count that now. Makes it too complicated. And of course, that's with no birth control.

Let's also say that children mature at normal rates. There's no documentation, but just for sake of argument. I mean, otherwise you'd have babyhood lasting 100 years, which is just ridiculous. Can you imagine the diapers? So, after the first brother-sister set matures (give them 20 years, but they'd be fucking before that), you get the grand-child factor. In those 200 breeding years, 10 generations would be produced.

Then, you still have Adam and Eve living for 600 more years, enjoying their golden years. That brings you to a whopping 40 generations of little descendents, all living and breathing and enjoying their 200 years of contraceptive-free breeding time.

I would say that would populate quite a few cities.

This has been brought to you by Schizo, who has experienced a few too many Bible-soaked years, being trained in the art of complicated explanations for every obscure detail of the Holy Scriptures.

Oh, and that "in the day you eat thereof, you shall surely die" is brushed away (apparently to some) by the verse somewhere or other that says "a day to God is as a thousand years, and a thousand years is as a day", or something like that. Since Adam's life stopped short of 1,000 years, that means that, according to God's unique system of reckoning time, he died that day.

My teachers had truly wonderful excuse-making abilities.

 

____________________
"You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the />
dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest
of

girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"

 

Fanatic




Posts: 376
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 13/2/2003 at 03:13 PM
Oooh, good excuse! I like that one - 'to God a day = 1000 years, and 1000 years = a day'. Very... inventive of them!! Still, I figure the only thing the snake did wrong was contradict God.

I feel sooo sorry for Eve. I mean, popping out a new kid once a year has to take it's toll!

Anyone ever seen 'Dogma' here? 'They took a real good idea and based a belief system on it' - the thirteenth apostle.

 

____________________
Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life.

 

Fanatic




Posts: 254
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 13/2/2003 at 06:20 PM
I am an evil fucker, and that has nothing to do with my liking guys. Also, I am a virgin who has never touched cigarettes, or drank alcohol or taken drugs. Therefore I am pretty pure; purer than most if not all of the x-tians i know. So they can rub their holy faces in it. Besides I have intellectually battles these people for years, and all I can say is fuck em'. They tire me out- and for such a group of people bent on morality and kindness, they do a fair share of dishing out pain, insults, shame, cruelity, confusion, and hate. These are people that cal "reading the Bibble" Listening to their pastor. They don't know what they are talking about, and from what I can tell, they are just scared little children regardless of their age. Remember, Knowledge always clips the wings of religion. Ask Siddartha.

 

____________________
The OBOLISK is Divine.

 
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