Psychopixi
Fanatic Posts: 376 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 11/2/2003 at 09:12 AM |
I've been talking to a few people lately and it seems that I'm going to
hell for pretty much anything I do! (yeay me) Is anyone here so devoutly
Christian that they believe having sex before marriage or being
gay/bi/lesbian means you'll go to hell. I read a forum where a girl was
asking advice on whether she should have sex with her boyfriend and 99% of
the replies said something along the lines of 'you'll go to hell' and 'you
aren't Christian if you do'. Don't you think that's a little harsh?
Also the whole 'gays are evil' thing... what's up with that? Again the
people I've talked to have shown no compassion for people of a different
orientation to them, and I'd just like to know why? Other than the crappy
cop-out excuse that 'God said so', why the hell should gays be considered
evil?!?
I just can't get my head round why people would want to think like this,
why they would love a God that condemns people for 'sins' that are really
not harmful at all. How can they accept something that was writte down by
men, *men*! How can something so fallible dictate their whole lives? ____________________ Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life. |
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Anya
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 7/6/2003 at 12:57 AM |
For the moment, I think I've shared enough of my spirituality (isn't based
on just one dogma, either) so I'll save the typing there.
Bettie: I agree for the most part on your thoughts on how the Bible is
likely inaccurate to a certain extent. When someone thinks I'm going to go
to Hell for my electic-ness or call my way the "wrong way", I just shrug
(use to get pissed off though, was my fire years)...nowdays, I am this
<> close to taking their book and either pulling out lines that'll
piss them off or shoving it up their ASS. I could go on and on about my
thoughts on Bible thumpers and the arguements they like to use to justify
them condemning me("You don't have to believe in Satan to worship him!",
"Bi-sexuality is a sin!", etc), but I don't want to get carpals by the end
of the year...and nowdays, I guess they're not that important enough to
share strong hate for.
In matter of fact, it's said that a fair amount of the Dead Sea Scrolls
were considered heresy by the Church so they were to be destroyed, but
there's a fair amount of it recovered thanks to archaeologists...hehe.
Then you get into the age where you have the Inquisition (also dubbed as
"The Burning Times") that convicted a lot of people of sleeping with the
Devil. Let me note that this went for "Witches" (women with strong
influence, people who used herbs to ail the ill, sociopaths, druids,
pagans, etc), Jews, AND heretical Christian branches; let's not forget that
A LOT of the accused were women and children as well *shudder*.
Callei: Yeah I think it's funny when little kids (or EVEN adults) blame
their actions on either "God's Will" or the Devil. To me it's them saying
that they cannot take responsibility for their actions. "Am I Hindu?"
sounds like an interesting book title. Who's the author? Know any places
on the web that'd sell it for a decent price (I am skeptical about
amazon.com now for I got ripped off on a decent translation book of the
Dead Sea Scrolls)? The town I live in has only so much information
concerning New Age/Occult/Religion/Spirituality stuff away from the typical
Christian stuff. |
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callei
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 6/6/2003 at 06:19 AM |
I get a kick out of the idea that so many people have to be told that they
ARE responsible for thier actions. Talk about disinfranchizing people,
taking away thier self knowledge that they are alive.
there is a neat book called "am i a hindu?". it gives a good sense of what
its like to see the world in a nonxian way (like most of the world) I
strongly reccomend it to anyone that wants to explore thier worldviews and
systems of knowing. ____________________ Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away. |
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Psychopixi
Fanatic Posts: 376 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 4/6/2003 at 10:54 AM |
Ditto on the responsibility thing. I'll take the rap my own actions without
claiming "the devi made me do it" or "it's God's will". Even if the courts
suddenly decided to accept "the devil made me do it" as a valid excuse, I
think I'd still prefer to have the free will involved in taking
responsibilty for my actions. Does that make sense? I'd rather not blame it
on the devil because that would be like saying I didn't have any free will. ____________________ Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life. |
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 2/6/2003 at 12:37 PM |
I read a really great short horror story involving Jesus, about how it
REALLY was, and it was fantastic. The Bible has a lot of great stories (I
mean if you're into blood and guts, there is no gorier sweeping epic novel
in existence) and SOME pretty good advice, but then again the basics of
kindergarten (don't hit don't spit and share) will get you a LOT further in
life when you apply them to reality. Plus you have to understand that the
bible is in no way even CLOSE to the original texts, as it's been
translated to DEATH over and over and so many rulers have had it "changed"
to suit their needs, there's a monstrous gap in the life of jesus between
the age seven and thirty (so what happened inbetween?), the people in the
bible are always speaking FOR jesus, instead of him speaking for himself,
and half of the original text was burnt in the library in alexandria during
that big bad fire, so we don't even have the REAL bible, just the freehand
cliffnotes from about 1500 years ago. You can't totally discount it, as it
has some value as an accurate historical text, and has a few good tips on
being a decent human being, but all that crap about ME suffering for
SOMEONE ELSE'S FUCKUP (ie: the fall from "grace") can BLOW. Talk about
passing the goddamn buck, why don't you. Fuck that noise. That's why I'm
a satanist, not responsible for anyone but ME. If my ass is in a sling,
*I* put me there, not a fig leaf wearin twit running willly nilly eatin
shit he was told NOT to. Or you could turn that around and say that since
I was BORN into this miserable fallen condition, well, just run with it.
can't make it worse, can you?
____________________ Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas. |
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sabator
Coward Posts: 2 Registered: 29/5/2003 Status: Offline
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posted on 1/6/2003 at 01:56 PM |
Being that we really have no idea how anything works - you get to a small
enough scale and everythings confusing- it is foolish to beleive a really
old book knows any thing more than a group of old people.
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Anya
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 25/5/2003 at 07:41 AM |
It's a debatable topic. A lot of the stuff in the dogmas are based on
faith. Spirituality to me is merely believing there's something beyond the
sciences and evolution. And it is true that in the Old Testament, there
was a fair amount of sacrifices. It is said though that the New Testament
was to replace the old one and such.
I hear a lot about Heaven and Hell being the state of mind; it could be
possible in the sense that a lot of dogmas are fairly symbolical. I've got
no problem with people having different beliefs - as long as they're not
condemning mine or out to intentionally harm anyone; I've got Wiccan,
Atheist, Christian, Agnostic, Satanist (philosophy), Pagan, and other
associates and it's all fine with me.
Not sure if I mentioned this in the forums before, but I feel that those
who condemn others for not agreeing with their beliefs are either not
secure enough about their own, trying to feel special by being "different"
(wow, is that new), or whatnot...once more, maybe there's more behind it.
I'm just tired of hearing Bible thumpers acting "Holier Than Thou". But
I'm not perfect...sooo, hehe - maybe my beliefs are warped. *goes off and
drinks some tea* ____________________
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pAris
Member Posts: 115 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 24/5/2003 at 04:01 PM |
quote: Is it me, or did the
penis get off kind of easy?
First of all, I am so surprised no one jumped on that one....er...made a
joke about that.
As I see it (and I was not raised a Christian, so I may be wrong), the
angels were not originally nice and friendly cute wittle cuddly thigns, but
were to be feared - they carried the word of gods and were messengers (and
also pre-dated christianity by many years in other cultures). And Lucifer
("light bringer") is so much like Prometheus that I am surprised no one
ever discusses this - they both brought the power of the gods (in different
forms) to humanity, which essentially means to lift them up out of their
more animal state at the time, and were punished for it, cast down to be
tortured blah blah.
And I for one think that we as humans create our own heaven and hell. And
if I am wrong, then I don't mind going to hell, as I'd miss my friends
otherwise.....
Great topic though! In general I have friends of many vastly different
faiths who accept me and mine as I accept their belief systems. As an
outsider looking in, I guess I've always looked at it the way people look
at any other mythology - something to learn from perhaps.
Finally, for those who have been persecuted by people claiming the Bible
outlaws this and that, it also gives the big thumbs up to a lot of crazy
shit - I don't know verses or whatnot, but I am pretty sure that in the old
testament, sacrifice, multiple wives, murder and deceit are pretty commonly
accepted. So if some Christian gives you shit about being gay or whatever,
just ask them if it's okay to kill some oxen for the crops and marry a
whole boat-load of people, etc....
now, back to coveting my neighbor's ass....
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 21/5/2003 at 12:27 AM |
The only way I'd ever follow something blindly is if it involved a baseball
bat and the promise of a big pinjata full of cigarettes. ____________________ Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas. |
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AloneSoul
Fanatic Posts: 522 Registered: 6/7/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 19/5/2003 at 10:45 PM |
Everyone has a obsession, you gotta admit that. For some, it’s religion.
Some people do follow certain sects with blind devotion... Sometimes I
wonder, is there a difference between faith and “blind” faith?
Going back to a previous discussion on this thread, being forced to go to
CCD for four years every freak’in Sunday morning didn’t really help to
enhance my faith. CCD made me question it more than anything else. Heh, my
brother hated it; if there was a way to be booted from CCD, he found it. ____________________ but at least you know, just how much pain there is in living |
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Anya
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 19/5/2003 at 03:29 PM |
It's debatable - the blind thing, that is. Think of it as gluttony...too
much indulgence can leave a blind spot, but faith isn't totally a bad
thing...just not something to depend on. While it can help you survive in
the sense of being willing to move on and well...survive, it can leave you
huddling in the desert, not moving and praying and hoping <enter deity
of your choice here> will save you. And as AloneSoul said, I think
faiths and religions should be something to enhance your dharma, not
dominate your life. Or better yet, not taken to the extreme that you get
caught in a web of mere dreams (you gotta work for your dreams) that you
think that certain deity will make appear *just* before you. |
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Psychopixi
Fanatic Posts: 376 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 19/5/2003 at 09:56 AM |
"You could say that no-one follows anything blindly, they just follow it
with different eyes."
Yep. Closed eyes.
I know a lot of people that honestly don't think anything about their
religion than what they've been told to think. They haven't questioned one
single thing, and when I say following blindly -THAT- is what I mean. ____________________ Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life. |
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Xaoswolf
Fanatic Posts: 463 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 19/5/2003 at 08:18 AM |
Hey now Dolo, I'm all for a good old fashioned blind following. Especially
because I think that's the only way I'm ever going to gain power. I'll
need my blind folowing to back me up as I take over, no sane person will
help, and I can't afford mercanaries yet. ____________________ Sometimes I dream about dinosaurs shopping for cargo shorts at the Gap.
Does that make me a bad person? |
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Dolorosa
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 856 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 18/5/2003 at 11:26 PM |
No one believes in blindly following anything...but that doesn't stop them
from doing it.
Their reasons may be strange, or SEEM non-existant...but they are there,
even if the person in case isn't fully aware of them.
Saying that you don't like people who follow a faith blindly is kind of a
fubar in and of itself. You could say that no-one follows anything blindly,
they just follow it with different eyes.
Or you could alternately say, that Can any claim to see where others do
not?
Little zen koan crapuloids right there for ya'
In any case, what a topic!
You will not find virtue in a religion. You will find virtue in a person.
And the virtuous person can sometimes find strength in religion...and ALL
people find strength in faith...no matter it's nature. ____________________ In the valley of the Goats, the Goat Fucker is King |
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AloneSoul
Fanatic Posts: 522 Registered: 6/7/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 18/5/2003 at 01:53 PM |
I personally am not to big a fan on following a certain religious sect or
orthodoxy blindly. The more people they have, the more control and power
falls into their hands. The people to them ARE nothing but sheep, a herd
which must obey each command...uphold every moral belief the church has...
It’s sickening to see so many groups condemn others for have “dissenting”
ideals or condemn those who are willing to think beyond the lines of that
certain orthodoxy’s morals/boundaries.
Like I said many times before; religion should enhance your life, not
control it.
I believe there is a god and Christ’s existence is a possibility. I don’t
follow the bible or the teachings of Christianity.
It is said that before his supposed crucifixion, Christ wrote a scripture
stating that your body is it’s own church and you do not need to flock into
a wooden sanction for Heavenly salvation. The church considers that
document heresy. Interesting to me it is. ____________________
SRC="http://www.rpgclassics.com/shrines/snes/ff6/images/characters/kefka.gi
f">
size=1> but at least you know, just how much pain there is in living |
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Merry_Widow
Fanatic Posts: 598 Registered: 24/8/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 18/5/2003 at 10:34 AM |
Guttersnipe, I am willing to say that your experience with the Catholic
religion has been less than a good time, but to then go on and say that the
religion as a whole is bullshit... not cool. That would be like me
condemning the entire idea of worshipping the Mother just because I had
some idiot attack me for not knowing about the Coven of Diana that was
apparently active near my home. Bits and pieces don't show the
whole...they show bits and pieces of the whole. Sure there are nasty
Christians. I've filed harrament complaints against them. But where ever
faith and beliefs are involved, there is going to be ugliness. Just let it
go, and move on.
And yes, to be a martyr, you have to be dead. ____________________ Okay, dazzle me. |
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Schizo
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 897 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 18/5/2003 at 08:14 AM |
Well, Guttersnipe, hate to disagree with you, but some people do manage to
make it quite a few years without sex. My brother, for example. Turns 29
this month, and never even kissed anyone. And he's definitely not a liar.
It takes a lot of brainwashing, but it's possible. It also takes a very
stubborn, pig-headed personality, which is one of my family's most
prominent traits.
But I will admit, such people are few and far between. It's no coincidence
that so many preists get caught in sexual scandals. ____________________ "You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the
dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest of
girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism" |
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Abbadon
Fanatic Posts: 499 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 18/5/2003 at 04:39 AM |
Hell is the possibility of sanity. ____________________ Light is changing to shadow, and casting a shroud over all we have known. |
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Psychopixi
Fanatic Posts: 376 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 18/5/2003 at 01:12 AM |
The Bible I can respect, because even though I'm not Christian I think
anyone can see that it has some good ideas in it. I won't respect the
people who read it unless they give me reason to though. Everyone here,
irrespective of faith, has my respect because they've proven themselves to
be decent individuals. The people who just use the Bible to suit their own
ends, or those who blindly accept everything it says, however, need a kick
up the arse.
I tend to quote weird people, rather than weird Bible verses, but I'm sure
that it could be alot of fun. ____________________ Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life. |
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Dolorosa
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 856 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 17/5/2003 at 04:26 PM |
Wait...don't Martyr's have to be...you know, like Dead or something?
The Bible is a holy book, just like all the other holy books out
there...it's neat, and theres some wisdom in there...but like all things,
it's truths lay in the eye of beholder I suppose...
Wisdom of any type can sound foolish. And fools can rarely tell the
difference.
I'm not a bible man myself, but I respect the book all around...like I do
all the others...
And c'mon, doesn't it feel just cool as hell to rattle off some creepy
Bible verse at an opportune moment? Heh, I get a hell of a kick out of
it...Quoting scriptures and then following up with a bit of Sun Tzu before
kicking someones ass is fucking fun as hell. ____________________ In the valley of the Goats, the Goat Fucker is King |
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