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Author: Subject: Immorality

Occasional Poster





Posts: 48
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/4/2002 at 12:54 AM
"Immoral" is defined as being a) not in conformity with the accepted standards and moral code of a community. b) not in conformity with accepted principles of right and wrong behavior.

Do you consider yourself as having higher/lower standards of character and conduct morals in relation to non-goths?

 

____________________

 

Administrator




Posts: 317
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Online

  posted on 8/4/2002 at 02:00 AM
Higher - definately - much much higher

 

____________________
So Sayeth Me

 

Member




Posts: 115
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/4/2002 at 04:45 AM
Higher - I find "the accepted standards and moral code of a community" to be just so much hypocritical bullshit to spout off about and hide behind.

 

____________________

 

Fanatic




Posts: 289
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/4/2002 at 05:45 AM
Definatley higher: I live by mine rather than spout them as dogma.

 

____________________
It is only through the lack of sex that humanity derives the need for an all encompassing blind love. And in that moment of extreme horniness with no relief in sight, in that moment can be found the birth of religion.
-Me

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 893
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/4/2002 at 06:10 AM
I donīt like moral standards... itīs a tie-down... Iīd rather live by the moment, and choose my options subjectively... Not just because its wrong or right, but how itīll affect other people... "the principle of the matter" isnīt in my retinue of phrases.

 

____________________
Piggy's got the Conch!

 

Fanatic




Posts: 248
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/4/2002 at 06:18 AM
honestly if you think about it though...everyone lives by some kind of moral code. If course all of that is a bunch of b/s why live to someone elseīs standards but your living by your own arnīt you? So if you look at it even if you arnīt following the moral code of one community or what not your still following you own code of inhabitions and some where out there, their are a few more people who share that same idea or inhabition. And their are some moral things that possibly you may agree with that is held by the majority.



Some where along the line of moral codes and ethics and blah blah blah...you fit in, whether or not you think so.



of course its just a big pile of crap cause everyone wants to shove their morals down your thoat but hey dont you develop your own?

 

____________________
My Life is like a porno-Without the sex-Just the weird music

 

Member




Posts: 114
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/4/2002 at 08:05 AM
I do follow a very loose code of moral (meaning there is lots of room for exception you pervs) I donīt believe in a rule that has no exceptions because for any rule, there might be a situation where the lesser of two evils would be a compromise of your morals for a higher good. Donīt ask me what I mean, I hardly understand it, mostly, I just go with the flow, and avoid killing things and causing pain (physical or emotional) and consider that good, oh and I also try to rack up good karma when at all possible.

 

____________________
this is your world in which we grow and we will grow to hate you

 

Coward




Posts: 6
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/4/2002 at 08:05 AM
I like how you worded that IronBoots...

 

____________________
All crimes shall be treasured if they bring thee pleasure somehow...

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 759
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/4/2002 at 02:50 PM
I think it would depend on the group of not goths in question and the morals that they hold to. I mean to judge my morals against the mongol hordes or against a monastic group would be very problimatic, in that we hold different things sacred or important or necessary.

 

____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires away.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 897
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/4/2002 at 08:55 PM
Seems like a lot of societyīs morals have to do with who you sleep with and what paperwork you have to back it up. Also where you go on Sunday mornings, and how many letters are in the words you use.



Some things that many apparently "moral" people miss out on:



Honesty. to oneself as well as others.



Consistency. do you hold others to a level of perfection that you yourself cannot acheive?



Humility. can you admit you are wrong?



Courage. are you brave enough to appear "bad" when you are convinced you are nothing of the sort



Kindness. do you only treat people well if they are like you? if so, are you just vicariously treating yourself well?



And of course, many others. Unfortunately, most of these things either do not show on the outside, or else they show to apparent disadvantage.



I think it is more important to have the inner "virtues" than the outer ones. I believe I am more moral than many people who go to church several times a week and were virgins when they got married (or even when they died).



"Morals" are a highly Judeo-Christian concept. So I would like to use the Christian (and Jewish) example of King David. Who fucked someone elseīs wife and then killed the guy to cover it up. Who somehow rated more highly than the later Pharisees who followed all the rules, and even made up more rules to make sure that they didnīt even get close to breaking the rules.



The verse Iīm thinking of goes something like "Man looks on the outward appearance, but God looks on the thoughts and intents of the heart." So David can mess up big time, and still be called "a man after Godīs own heart". And the Pharisees can do everything right, and still be called "a brood of vipers".



Whether sexual escapades and colorful language are moral or immoral doesnīt seem to matter. Itīs the heart that counts.



Is it possible for even a murderer to be more moral than a minister? Definitely. He just doesnīt look that way.



One thing about our culture (Goth, that is, not American) is that we donīt give a fuck if we look sweet and good or not. In general, we end up looking more "evil" than we really are. Whereas many people out there are so desperate to look good that they donīt pay any attention to whether they are good.



Iīm not saying all Goths have perfect souls. Iīm just saying that any faults are not as likely to be hidden.



And things that are not hidden are more likely to be addressed and taken care of.



Which leaves us in better shape morally than those people who seem on the outside to care about morals.

 

____________________
"You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest of girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 1570
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/4/2002 at 09:56 PM
I wouldntī say I have a higher moral code, as mine are different. I value different things, I dislike different things, I donīt believe in some things that others do that would affect this.



I would say Iīm a "higher" person because I donīt put standards on people that I donīt hold for myself.

If I had minions and money and enough world desperation to conquer and be savior, these would be my list of īmoralsī



truth/honesty: not how you WANT it to be, but how it is...ALL THE TIME even if it makes you look bad or gets you in trouble. With yourself and others, if itīs any of their business.



integrity: If you are behind something, stay there regardless of social "standards", religious stigmas, and keep your fucking promises to everyone, including self.



peace: Donīt hit, donīt spit, donīt stare, donīt bugger, fuck with, irritate, antagonize, provoke or otherwise screw with someone for no reason. If you do, it better be good. Donīt hurt kids. If you hurt kids, Iīll have my goons teach you exactly what it feels like.



usefullness: Donīt be a goddamned waste of fucking space. Be productive or be gone...or at least donīt be a burden. Iīll get my goons..



responsibility: Everything that happens in your life is because of Y O U. Good, bad, ambivilous....Y O U. Nobody else. Everyone hates this one.....even the goons...



The one thing Iīve heard from people that makes me feel good, is that I back up what I say, I stick to it, and I donīt ask things of people that I wonīt do myself. Itīs simple, maybe not that flattering, or the type of flattery people like to get, but it makes me all well, sort of warm...which is a new feeling...after all I sleep in a walk in cooler to keep me fresh and all....





 

____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.

 

Unregistered


  posted on 8/4/2002 at 10:13 PM
Last Day





Screaming, crying, a breath of air....



[ The rest mercifully deleted by your benevalent faciast... īNo poetryī doesnīt mean īSneak poetry onto the forums when youīre on methī ]

[ This message was edited by: Devin on 2002-04-09 07:16 ]

 

____________________

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 759
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 9/4/2002 at 01:37 AM
are you a troll, a crack baby, or a someone that thinks that your audience should work harder than you did to understand you point.

Oh by the way, we are a poetry free zone.

 

____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away.

 

Coward




Posts: 7
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 9/4/2002 at 02:32 AM
Iīd say i think i have generally higher moral standards not coz iīm great or anything just because societies morals are so low. I donīt mean about sex or violence or any of that bullshit but the exploitation of the poor by big corporations, the destruction of the environment so some big corporate executive can make another couple of billion dollarsetc etc etc I am sorry but it really pisses me off that the mainstream spends a lot of time condemning the alternative cultures as immoral - citing sexual preferences and stereotypes, recreational drug use and even dress as examples of this when really its them who are the morally fucked up. I come form a strongly christian family, where the immoral and moral is constantly discussed so iīve thought about this ALOT. I think things start to become immoral when they start to hurt other people or if they are done for purely negative or selfish reasons. Bettie i love what you are saying with all the stuff about truth and integrity etc. I think that is what really matters, not whether you save yourself for marriage or dress modestly or donīt smoke/drink/ do drugs whatever else bullshit conservatives try to throw at you.

Its immoral if it exploits, harms or has a negative effect on someone else either directly or indirectly. I think its impossible to say THAT is moral but THIS is immoral, i think you have to look at each situation independently, subjectively as someone said.

Anyway excuse my ranting, i think i am suffering from a mental breakdown due to stress induced by 2 weeks of exams.

peace and love to you all xxx

 

____________________

 

Member




Posts: 50
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 9/4/2002 at 06:14 AM
i pretty much agree with what ironboots said..

 

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All your base are belong to ME!!!

 





Posts: 116
Registered: 14/4/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 9/4/2002 at 11:42 AM
For people supposed so different compared to the normals that go about the daily grind you sure are eager to suppress a point of view that you donīt understand if it looks anything remotely easy to classify. In this point the fault was so obviously mine (sarc.) for trying to post something in my own point of veiw, which was not poetry but the abstract way in which I like to write out my thoughts...I know the difference between the two...



-Zalosisae

 

____________________

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 759
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 9/4/2002 at 01:27 PM
you are making some very simle errors:

Different means opposite

manners are stupid and bad

Judging is "wrong"

This is your playground

That you have the only ball in town

A teenage agnst issue is actualy interesting to most people

And

that we should not know you by your actions, but rather by some thought you had at some point.

In fact, judging is good (otherwise we would have all died of food poisoning long ago), different just means different, this is not your playground and we dont need your ball, teen agnst bores nearly everyone that has outgrown that phase of falsely elongated childhood, and we will know you by what you contribute HERE, not somewhere else to something else.

We dont have to "understand" you, that is not our job. your job, as an author is to write to and for your audience, to amuse entertain and perhaps to educate, if they ask to be educated.

and its IS bad manners to assult others eyes with your brain drippings.

so there neah

 

____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires />
away.

 

Administrator




Posts: 317
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Online

  posted on 9/4/2002 at 04:40 PM
This is why I delegate most of my bug squishing authority to scorpios like callei. Now if only there were such thing as goth virgoīs, maybe I could get someone to wipe the drivel off of my web pages for me. But until then I reserve the right to censor anything that Iīve already said many times is unacceptable.



Callei is right on all counts as usual.

 

____________________
So Sayeth Me

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 1570
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 9/4/2002 at 08:53 PM
Oh I donīt know I sort of like the way c squishes things

Devin, props for keeping the law in hand...ooo spare my poor poor eyes...



and z, donīt worry...thereīs always www.deadjournal.com

youīll feel at home there...with countess jesseeeeee...our patron darling hypocrite.



Just a few helpful hints:

Nobody around here proclaims to be special.

Nobody around here likes AlTeRnAtInG text.

Okay, we HATE IT.

Poetry free means poetry free...especially the bad kind.

Wearing black doesnīt make you special.

Having thumbs doesnīt make you smart.

Usually when people write "abstractly" and are aware or proud of it or PROMOTE that they write or think "abstractly", that means they are TRYING to do it (faking it), trying to see things that way (faking it), and come off as insufferable.

DALI was abstract...he thought he was perfectly sane. He put a lobster on a telephone as a reciever and put it on display as art. HE is abstract. "Poetry" as a way of discussion is irritating, not "abstract".



Fee free to tell us all that weīll be sorry when youīre a world renowned sage...weīll live.

 

____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 893
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 10/4/2002 at 05:30 AM


I disagree... I think Dali was just doing it for the recognition... not for any real art purpose... I mean, sure, the lobster bit kinda fits (lobsters have about the same sort of grip as a phone...), but a lot of it is just weird... Like his speech ("Dalian"), and his general eccentricities present all over. I think he was just looking to be the center of attention.



He is talented, Iīll give you that...

 

____________________
Piggy's got the Conch!

 
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