"Immoral" is defined as being a) not in conformity with the accepted
standards and moral code of a community. b) not in conformity with
accepted principles of right and wrong behavior.
Do you consider yourself as having higher/lower standards of character and
conduct morals in relation to non-goths?
____________________
Devin
Administrator
Posts: 317 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Online
posted on 8/4/2002 at 02:00 AM
Higher - definately - much much higher
____________________ So Sayeth Me
pAris
Member
Posts: 115 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 8/4/2002 at 04:45 AM
Higher - I find "the accepted standards and moral code of a community" to
be just so much hypocritical bullshit to spout off about and hide behind.
____________________
Shade
Fanatic
Posts: 289 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 8/4/2002 at 05:45 AM
Definatley higher: I live by mine rather than spout them as dogma.
____________________ It is only through the lack of sex that humanity derives the need for an
all encompassing blind love. And in that moment of extreme horniness with
no relief in sight, in that moment can be found the birth of religion.
-Me
Ironboots
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 893 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 8/4/2002 at 06:10 AM
I donīt like moral standards... itīs a tie-down... Iīd rather live by the
moment, and choose my options subjectively... Not just because its wrong or
right, but how itīll affect other people... "the principle of the matter"
isnīt in my retinue of phrases.
____________________ Piggy's got the Conch!
Sardonic-Pain
Fanatic
Posts: 248 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 8/4/2002 at 06:18 AM
honestly if you think about it though...everyone lives by some kind of
moral code. If course all of that is a bunch of b/s why live to someone
elseīs standards but your living by your own arnīt you? So if you look at
it even if you arnīt following the moral code of one community or what not
your still following you own code of inhabitions and some where out there,
their are a few more people who share that same idea or inhabition. And
their are some moral things that possibly you may agree with that is held
by the majority.
Some where along the line of moral
codes and ethics and blah blah blah...you fit in, whether or not you think
so.
of course its just a big pile of crap cause
everyone wants to shove their morals down your thoat but hey dont you
develop your own?
____________________ My Life is like a porno-Without the sex-Just the weird music
jadedraven
Member
Posts: 114 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 8/4/2002 at 08:05 AM
I do follow a very loose code of moral (meaning there is lots of room for
exception you pervs) I donīt believe in a rule that has no exceptions
because for any rule, there might be a situation where the lesser of two
evils would be a compromise of your morals for a higher good. Donīt ask me
what I mean, I hardly understand it, mostly, I just go with the flow, and
avoid killing things and causing pain (physical or emotional) and consider
that good, oh and I also try to rack up good karma when at all possible.
____________________ this is your world in which we grow and we will grow to hate you
Dark_Enchanter
Coward
Posts: 6 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 8/4/2002 at 08:05 AM
I like how you worded that IronBoots...
____________________ All crimes shall be treasured if they bring thee pleasure somehow...
callei
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 8/4/2002 at 02:50 PM
I think it would depend on the group of not goths in question and the
morals that they hold to. I mean to judge my morals against the mongol
hordes or against a monastic group would be very problimatic, in that we
hold different things sacred or important or necessary.
____________________ Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away.
Schizo
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 897 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 8/4/2002 at 08:55 PM
Seems like a lot of societyīs morals have to do with who you sleep with and
what paperwork you have to back it up. Also where you go on Sunday
mornings, and how many letters are in the words you use.
Some things that many apparently "moral" people miss out on:
Honesty. to oneself as well as others.
Consistency. do you hold others to a level of perfection that you
yourself cannot acheive?
Humility. can you admit you
are wrong?
Courage. are you brave enough to appear
"bad" when you are convinced you are nothing of the sort
Kindness. do you only treat people well if they are like you? if
so, are you just vicariously treating yourself well?
And of course, many others. Unfortunately, most of these things
either do not show on the outside, or else they show to apparent
disadvantage.
I think it is more important to have the
inner "virtues" than the outer ones. I believe I am more moral than many
people who go to church several times a week and were virgins when they got
married (or even when they died).
"Morals" are a
highly Judeo-Christian concept. So I would like to use the Christian (and
Jewish) example of King David. Who fucked someone elseīs wife and then
killed the guy to cover it up. Who somehow rated more highly than the
later Pharisees who followed all the rules, and even made up more rules to
make sure that they didnīt even get close to breaking the rules.
The verse Iīm thinking of goes something like "Man looks
on the outward appearance, but God looks on the thoughts and intents of the
heart." So David can mess up big time, and still be called "a man after
Godīs own heart". And the Pharisees can do everything right, and still be
called "a brood of vipers".
Whether sexual escapades
and colorful language are moral or immoral doesnīt seem to matter. Itīs
the heart that counts.
Is it possible for even a
murderer to be more moral than a minister? Definitely. He just doesnīt
look that way.
One thing about our culture (Goth, that
is, not American) is that we donīt give a fuck if we look sweet and good or
not. In general, we end up looking more "evil" than we really are.
Whereas many people out there are so desperate to look good that they donīt
pay any attention to whether they are good.
Iīm not
saying all Goths have perfect souls. Iīm just saying that any faults are
not as likely to be hidden.
And things that are not
hidden are more likely to be addressed and taken care of.
Which leaves us in better shape morally than those people who seem
on the outside to care about morals.
____________________ "You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the
dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest of
girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"
I wouldntī say I have a higher moral code, as mine are different. I value
different things, I dislike different things, I donīt believe in some
things that others do that would affect this.
I would
say Iīm a "higher" person because I donīt put standards on people that I
donīt hold for myself.
If I had minions and money and enough
world desperation to conquer and be savior, these would be my list of
īmoralsī
truth/honesty: not how you WANT it to be, but
how it is...ALL THE TIME even if it makes you look bad or gets you in
trouble. With yourself and others, if itīs any of their business.
integrity: If you are behind something, stay there
regardless of social "standards", religious stigmas, and keep your fucking
promises to everyone, including self.
peace: Donīt
hit, donīt spit, donīt stare, donīt bugger, fuck with, irritate,
antagonize, provoke or otherwise screw with someone for no reason. If you
do, it better be good. Donīt hurt kids. If you hurt kids, Iīll have my
goons teach you exactly what it feels like.
usefullness: Donīt be a goddamned waste of fucking space. Be
productive or be gone...or at least donīt be a burden. Iīll get my
goons..
responsibility: Everything that happens in
your life is because of Y O U. Good, bad, ambivilous....Y O U. Nobody
else. Everyone hates this one.....even the goons...
The one thing Iīve heard from people that makes me feel good, is
that I back up what I say, I stick to it, and I donīt ask things of people
that I wonīt do myself. Itīs simple, maybe not that flattering, or the
type of flattery people like to get, but it makes me all well, sort of
warm...which is a new feeling...after all I sleep in a walk in cooler to
keep me fresh and all....
____________________ Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
Unregistered
posted on 8/4/2002 at 10:13 PM
Last Day
Screaming, crying, a breath of
air....
[ The rest mercifully deleted by your
benevalent faciast... īNo poetryī doesnīt mean īSneak poetry onto the
forums when youīre on methī ]
[ This message was edited
by: Devin on 2002-04-09 07:16 ]
____________________
callei
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 9/4/2002 at 01:37 AM
are you a troll, a crack baby, or a someone that thinks that your audience
should work harder than you did to understand you point.
Oh by
the way, we are a poetry free zone.
____________________ Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away.
asja
Coward
Posts: 7 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 9/4/2002 at 02:32 AM
Iīd say i think i have generally higher moral standards not coz iīm great
or anything just because societies morals are so low. I donīt mean about
sex or violence or any of that bullshit but the exploitation of the poor by
big corporations, the destruction of the environment so some big corporate
executive can make another couple of billion dollarsetc etc etc I am sorry
but it really pisses me off that the mainstream spends a lot of time
condemning the alternative cultures as immoral - citing sexual preferences
and stereotypes, recreational drug use and even dress as examples of this
when really its them who are the morally fucked up. I come form a strongly
christian family, where the immoral and moral is constantly discussed so
iīve thought about this ALOT. I think things start to become immoral when
they start to hurt other people or if they are done for purely negative or
selfish reasons. Bettie i love what you are saying with all the stuff about
truth and integrity etc. I think that is what really matters, not whether
you save yourself for marriage or dress modestly or donīt smoke/drink/ do
drugs whatever else bullshit conservatives try to throw at you.
Its immoral if it exploits, harms or has a negative effect on
someone else either directly or indirectly. I think its impossible to say
THAT is moral but THIS is immoral, i think you have to look at each
situation independently, subjectively as someone said.
Anyway
excuse my ranting, i think i am suffering from a mental breakdown due to
stress induced by 2 weeks of exams.
peace and love to you all xxx
____________________
goathead
Member
Posts: 50 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 9/4/2002 at 06:14 AM
i pretty much agree with what ironboots said..
____________________ All your base are belong to ME!!!
Anonymous
Posts: 116 Registered: 14/4/2002 Status: Offline
posted on 9/4/2002 at 11:42 AM
For people supposed so different compared to the normals that go about the
daily grind you sure are eager to suppress a point of view that you donīt
understand if it looks anything remotely easy to classify. In this point
the fault was so obviously mine (sarc.) for trying to post something in my
own point of veiw, which was not poetry but the abstract way in which I
like to write out my thoughts...I know the difference between the two...
-Zalosisae
____________________
callei
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 9/4/2002 at 01:27 PM
you are making some very simle errors:
Different means
opposite
manners are stupid and bad
Judging is
"wrong"
This is your playground
That you have the
only ball in town
A teenage agnst issue is actualy interesting to
most people
And
that we should not know you by your
actions, but rather by some thought you had at some point.
In
fact, judging is good (otherwise we would have all died of food poisoning
long ago), different just means different, this is not your playground and
we dont need your ball, teen agnst bores nearly everyone that has outgrown
that phase of falsely elongated childhood, and we will know you by what you
contribute HERE, not somewhere else to something else.
We dont
have to "understand" you, that is not our job. your job, as an author is to
write to and for your audience, to amuse entertain and perhaps to educate,
if they ask to be educated.
and its IS bad manners to assult
others eyes with your brain drippings.
so there neah
____________________ Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and
vampires
/>
away.
Devin
Administrator
Posts: 317 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Online
posted on 9/4/2002 at 04:40 PM
This is why I delegate most of my bug squishing authority to scorpios like
callei. Now if only there were such thing as goth virgoīs, maybe I could
get someone to wipe the drivel off of my web pages for me. But until then I
reserve the right to censor anything that Iīve already said many times is
unacceptable.
Oh I donīt know I sort of like the way c squishes things
Devin, props for keeping the
law in hand...ooo spare my poor poor eyes...
and z,
donīt worry...thereīs always www.deadjournal.com
youīll feel at
home there...with countess jesseeeeee...our patron darling hypocrite.
Just a few helpful hints:
Nobody around here
proclaims to be special.
Nobody around here likes AlTeRnAtInG
text.
Okay, we HATE IT.
Poetry free means poetry
free...especially the bad kind.
Wearing black doesnīt make you
special.
Having thumbs doesnīt make you smart.
Usually
when people write "abstractly" and are aware or proud of it or PROMOTE that
they write or think "abstractly", that means they are TRYING to do it
(faking it), trying to see things that way (faking it), and come off as
insufferable.
DALI was abstract...he thought he was perfectly
sane. He put a lobster on a telephone as a reciever and put it on display
as art. HE is abstract. "Poetry" as a way of discussion is irritating,
not "abstract".
Fee free to tell us all that weīll be
sorry when youīre a world renowned sage...weīll live.
____________________ Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
Ironboots
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 893 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 10/4/2002 at 05:30 AM
I disagree... I think Dali was just doing it for the
recognition... not for any real art purpose... I mean, sure, the lobster
bit kinda fits (lobsters have about the same sort of grip as a phone...),
but a lot of it is just weird... Like his speech ("Dalian"), and his
general eccentricities present all over. I think he was just looking to be
the center of attention.
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