Merry_Widow
Fanatic   Posts: 598 Registered: 24/8/2002 Status: Offline
|
posted on 1/5/2004 at 08:41 PM |
While there are physical differences in brain development that lead to
different levels of abstract thinking in either gender, those differences
do not lend themselves to either passivity or aggressiveness. They merely
affect how information is handled, in what forms they are better handled,
and why when a female gives directions, they are different than when a male
gives directions. (No, I'm not kidding on that one.)
While testosterone and estrogen do have effects on personality, they are
not going to be the reason you will see "tomboys" or overly effeminate men.
Those are a matter of personal choice. If a girl wants to play with cars,
that doesn't mean she's aggressive. If a boy wants to play house, maybe he
just likes to cook.
____________________
Okay, dazzle me.
|
| |
Anya
Extreme Fanatic   Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
|
posted on 1/5/2004 at 09:06 PM |
I suppose you have a point on that part...I guess it's more default to say
that estrogen and testosterone levels make you more prone to a certain
action rather than makes you commit that action. We're mind over matter,
or at least I would like to think.
[Edited on 5/2/2004 by Anya]
|
| |
callei
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
|
posted on 2/5/2004 at 07:08 AM |
sweetie put away the pop psychology and go read up on what testosterone,
estrogen, and progesteren actually DO in the human body and what roles they
play in the developement of the fetus, child, sex organs, heart disease,
and senility. And dont just read pages from people trying to sell you the
drugs, try a few medical journals and things like that.
And dont try to mix a conversation about social norms, social deviance, and
in crowd response with biology, neurobiology, and cellular responses to
stimuli. the two dont actually go hand in hand.
[Edited on 5/2/2004 by callei] ____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away.
|
| |
Anya
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
|
posted on 2/5/2004 at 08:22 AM |
Eh, just typing what I learned in psychology. *snickers* Maybe highschool
psychology is useless compared to the stuff they teach in college, though.
[Edited on 5/2/2004 by Anya]
[Edited on 5/2/2004 by Anya]
|
| |
feralucce
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
|
posted on 2/5/2004 at 09:47 AM |
AOD: OK... no offense... but as long as you decide to say women are this
and men are that.. you are placing gender roles upon them... whether
traditional or not... and frankly any such descrimination is moot...
retarded and fascist (nods to abbadon)... untill you see that humans on the
whole share the same deceitful, shitty and assanine traits, you will be
stuck in antiquated mode of thinking... when you put men and women on
different sides of a line, you set up defined rolls... there is only one
line... and it is a circle drawn around the race as a whole..
Callei: the links to sexuality are tenuous at best... I know a man whose
teststerone is high side of normal... and he FLAMBOYANTLY gay... and vice
versa... there is more than just chemical reasonings for that...
____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
|
| |
Geist
Member   Posts: 127 Registered: 5/11/2002 Status: Offline
|
posted on 2/5/2004 at 08:00 PM |
| hmmm... from communication to masculinity vs femeninity. is there some way
we can work cream cheese into this discussion ? ____________________
Chasity - the most unnatural of all sexual perversions...
|
| |
angel_of_death
Member  Posts: 119 Registered: 4/4/2004 Status: Offline
|
posted on 3/5/2004 at 01:11 AM |
quote:
AOD: OK... no offense...
but as long as you decide to say women are this and men are that.. you are
placing gender roles upon them... whether traditional or not... and frankly
any such descrimination is moot... retarded and fascist (nods to
abbadon)... untill you see that humans on the whole share the same
deceitful, shitty and assanine traits, you will be stuck in antiquated mode
of thinking... when you put men and women on different sides of a line, you
set up defined rolls... there is only one line... and it is a circle drawn
around the race as a whole..
no offence taken...i disagree, i am not placing gender roles, gender roles
where set in stone long before i was born and will be there long after. i
am not moot... retarded or fascist, i am merley realistic. ____________________
I know whats it like to want to die, how it hurts to smile, how you try to
fit in but you can't, how you hurt yourself on the outside, to try to kill
the pain in the inside.
|
| |
callei
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
|
posted on 3/5/2004 at 05:50 AM |
im really glad our parents and grandparents didnt think that about
segregation, the right to vote, The king, sex=babies, crime, murder,
racism, and soooo many things.
____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away.
|
| |
Zero
Fanatic  Posts: 459 Registered: 15/2/2004 Status: Offline
|
posted on 3/5/2004 at 06:59 AM |
wait a minute..."The king".....Elvis?!?!!...where?!?!?
as the world gets older gender roles are becoming more and more
non-exsitant....Men are staying home raising the children, some of us are
wearing skirts(and making women jealous)....women are becoming more and
more independant (sometimes despite what they wanted) some are raisin' the
chir'en without much, if any, help from men...things have changed...(but
really i'd love it if chivalry and all that stuff was still around...you
know treating women with respect...standing up for the little guy...not all
that rapeing and pilidging stuff...the good parts)... gender roles maybe
here to stay but those roles are changing...pretty soon we'll expect we'll
not only except a woman who is very aggressive...but we'll also come to
expect it....
i tried... but i don't think i can work cream cheese into this....sorry. ____________________
"It is a fool's prerogative to utter truths that no one else will speak." ~
The Sandman, Dream Country
|
| |
callei
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
|
posted on 3/5/2004 at 12:49 PM |
(sorry dev for going for the two person relationship thing here)
In the bagle of love, cream cheese can be plain or it can be flavored.
The secret is to know what flavor od bage you are and what flavor you other
bagel half is. Then choose which flavor of cream cheese goes best with both
halves of that bagel. nad garlic flavor does not go well with cinimon rasin
or orange spice....
How is that for adding cream cheese to a discussion (or whatever this is)
about relationship communication styles? ____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and
vampires
/>
away.
|
| |
Dolorosa
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 856 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
|
posted on 3/5/2004 at 08:46 PM |
The only differences between male and female are physiological, and even
then, they aren't different by much. Any crap about men and women being
different in any concrete or diaphanous sense is bull-crap. Find me a woman
that you can catalogue somehow and I'll go out into the world of six or
seven plus billion human slugs and find you a male that's functionally
identical, and vice versa.
The only differences between the genders are the ones we make up and
pretend to understand, or not understand...blah.
Violence is the answer to any question... ____________________
In the valley of the Goats, the Goat Fucker is King
|
| |
feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
|
posted on 5/5/2004 at 05:30 PM |
QUOTE
no offence taken...i disagree, i am not placing gender roles, gender roles
where set in stone long before i was born and will be there long after. i
am not moot... retarded or fascist, i am merley realistic.
END QUOTE
Nothing is set in stone, unless you choose to let it be... smash the stone,
and acknowledge that new modes of thought are necessary... I did not state
that you were retarded, fascist or moot... but applied those terms of
endearment to the antiquated thought of gender bias and discrimiation... by
choosing to deny those labels, in many minds you are admitting to the
causes of the applied nome de plum. were gender roles set in stone, then
MOST women on this site would have been stoned for fornication and Squid
would have been stoned for sodomy...
GeistyMeister: it was about communication between teh sexes, when human
interaction would ahve sufficed... by sayin men are and women are... we
establish an inherently discriminitory dialogue and I thik that is
DOODOO!!! (<a href="http://www.funnyjunk.com/pages/cat.htm">CLICK
HERE</a> ____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
|
| |
angel_of_death
Member Posts: 119 Registered: 4/4/2004 Status: Offline
|
posted on 6/5/2004 at 01:28 AM |
while smashing the stone may sound like a good idea, u will never get it
all. gender roles are everywhere, movies, music, work, play, there is no
escaping it, and it will be that way forever becasue you have young male
minds and young female minds who are going to be exposed to the above media
and they will grow up with it and weather the know it or not will fit into
those roles.
i give you credit however that gender roles are becoming less common.
what new models of thought? what new ideas can u introduce to socity that
have not alreday been tried and failed?
accept it feralucce, its the way it is. you cant fight it, you cant change
it, all you can do is use it to ur advantage. ____________________
I know whats it like to want to die, how it hurts to smile, how you try
to
fit in but you can't, how you hurt yourself on the outside, to try to
kill
the pain in the inside.
|
| |
Monolycus
Fanatic  Posts: 580 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
|
posted on 6/5/2004 at 01:44 AM |
Respectfully disagreed, Angel O.
~M. ____________________
"I believe that woman is planning to shoot me again."
|
| |
angel_of_death
Member Posts: 119 Registered: 4/4/2004 Status: Offline
|
posted on 6/5/2004 at 03:59 AM |
| i feel out numbered ____________________
I know whats it like to want to die, how it hurts to smile, how you try
to
fit in but you can't, how you hurt yourself on the outside, to try to
kill
the pain in the inside.
|
| |
callei
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
|
posted on 6/5/2004 at 07:00 AM |
could be that you are sweetie. stop and ponder how much change those of us
that have been around 25 years or more have seen in gender roles. we know
you can smash them, ignore them, and dance on thier graves.
as for "new ideas" introduced, ever worn shorts to shcool or seen anyone
male or female wear them? that has changed since i was a kid. see how many
people wear jeans? not just mexican cowboys anymore huh? did you know that
you can vote? that is a new idea too. ever seen a female doctor or lawyer?
a bikini? a divorce? a credit card? all of these are new ideas that have
changed life for males, females, and everyone else.
Gender roles ARE everywhere, allllll kinds of gender roles. they change you
know. they are based on your age, socio-economic status, country, religion,
and self interest as much as your gender. there is a gender role in the US
that women are "sluts" and one that women are "pure" and another that they
are "evil" and another that they are "prude" and another that they are weak
and one that they are strong. and so on. yes gender roles are out there.
yes you can pretend to follow one and then do something to act out against
that role. does make that role go away, it just means that you acted out
and took out some personal shit on someone poor bastard that was standing
there at the time.
gender roles mean that you can wear a fancy dress when you go out to a nice
restaurant if you are a girl, and that you can (but will get looked at
differntly) if you are a boy. they dont stop anyone if they really want to
do it.
and please in future take the time to spell "you" out. that netism doesnt
make you easier to read or to understand. ____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and
vampires
/>
away.
|
| |
Zero
Fanatic Posts: 459 Registered: 15/2/2004 Status: Offline
|
posted on 6/5/2004 at 08:27 AM |
I don't know for sure...since i can't remember that far back to when i
watched the discovery channel...but i always thought that womens sufferage
was far older than that. I've heard of cultures being domenated by women
and many other cultures that had adopted equal rights amongst the
sexes...so i thought that was an old idea.
Also, Men have been dressing in drag for a long time as well...that's not
too new either.
but the ways we look at things (as a whole) are.
____________________
"It is a fool's prerogative to utter truths that no one else will speak."
~
The Sandman, Dream Country
|
| |
callei
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
|
posted on 6/5/2004 at 09:21 AM |
dressing in drag is one thing if you do it on stage, its another is it is
something you do all the time, and something else if you arent dressing in
drag and merely wearing a dress.
the social contruct of anyone who has not commited certains kinds of
felonies and was born or naturalized in a geographic region being able to
vote to elect representatives to a sitting full time compensated government
that provides mediation and commerce guidlines between regions that also
vote in representatives to that same sitting fulltime compensated
government is new actually. especially if you include the lack of slave
status in that social construct.
Women having the same equal or more power in some form of governement is,
of course, not new. but women have the same power as men in a federated
republic is new. therfore sufferage is a new idea (let's just all accept
that what the greeks did was fundementally different ok since it was, ok?) ____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and
vampires
/>
away.
|
| |
feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
|
posted on 7/5/2004 at 12:39 PM |
| angel: I respectfully but vehemently disagree... There is nothing that
cannot be fought... we\omen could not vote or own land... now hey can...
But speaking as someone who is a male equity feminist... you can fight
it... and I DO DAILY... You CHOOSE to be set in that role... but do not
tell me that is the way it has to be... HUMANS... change your thoughts
before trying to change anything... if you feel that it cannot be...then
you minimise yourself... but I will not be bound by basically puritan
ideas... and I will work as the Unmaker in every arena I see them in... I
respect your right tohavve the thoughts... but I know for a fact that
things change... and fuck all if Iwill tell callei she canna wear pants...
and I'll be damned if you will deny me the right to wear a black kilt
(skirt)... while this was not directly your point, you have chosen to let
the status quo choose your path... and that makes mesad... I strain against
any reigns so inflicted upon me... I hope you can too... I would like, very
much, for you to grow beyond he and she... and accept we... ____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
|
| |
Schizo
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 897 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
|
posted on 8/5/2004 at 01:33 AM |
I am a person. I am different from all other people, and like all other
people. Some people I resemble more than others. There are some men who I
am more like than a lot of women. Sometimes I have trouble communicating
with people, men and women.
I think the main problem with communication is this. Most people don't
listen to what is being said, they are listening to what they want to hear.
Or else they are not saying what they mean, but what they think other
people want to hear. This happens in boths sexes, and all hair, eye, and
skin colors.
The reason this miscommunication is so typically connected to male/female
interactions is because sex is one of the biggest drives in the human
psyche. This often drives people to tell white lies or to willfully
misunderstand, just so they can get or believe what they want. Because the
"normal" relationship is heterosexual, this communication glitch generally
occurs between a man and a woman.
I am a person who likes to listen to what someone is trying to say, not
what I want them to say, and I only care to communicate with people who are
going to be upfront and honest with me. So this is not a huge problem in
my life.
The psychological differences between a man and a woman have been
exaggerated by the tendency to follow the stereotypes that have been laid
down for us. Two people of intelligence who value honesty will always find
a way to communicate, no matter what their gender. ____________________
"You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the
dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest of
girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"
|
| |
