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Author: Subject: War, 9/11 and the FBI.

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Posts: 522
Registered: 6/7/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 3/10/2002 at 09:29 PM
First to get this out, to the people who want to resist the war, rebel or whatever, believe what you want, talk won´t settle the terrorists till we are all dead and the war machine is about to go. To the people who spit on our soldiers for fighting, I only wish that you could be there, picking up the body parts at Ground Zero, soaking in the sorrow from that day. We have a right to be angry and need to destroy terrorists, not for our safety but for the safety of millions of lives around the globe. You want to be different and follow those fuckheads at The Church of Euthanasia, it´s your life, have fun but just know there are men and women who are dying for your rights to choose your Church, to say what you want to say and to live where you live.
- Ok, I got that out. I may be flamed for that but it´s your time spent typing those angry words, I won´t continue that argument nor lose any of my two hours of sleep over it. I already spoke about this before in here. Ok? So please keep the flames to a minium and keep cool.

Again there is some more anger brewing with the upcoming war. Before we start to sling four letter curses at eachother we should calm down a bit.

Now, I want to talk about something. Evidence is now showing that the FBI could have prevented 9/11. Why didn´t this happen? Politics in the FBI offices and grudges.
Yes, grudges.
I suggest you look at this, I saw this show tonight and it really goes in depth with this.

The Man Who Knew.

What’s my point from all this? The FBI squabbled with eachother because of one maverick’s way of doing damn good work. I see that right now our nation and the world itself is squabbling over war, justifying death blah, blah, blah. I am trying to understand other people’s views about war, especially here, even if it doesn’t seem like it. To those who are angry and follow propaganda everywhere, keep cool when talking to others about this.
Thanks.

 

____________________
but at least you know, just how much pain there is in living
 

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  posted on 3/10/2002 at 09:39 PM
To those of you who think that war is murder please belive that all you want, be my guest. But if you think the war on terrorism is bullshit, then you need to be affected personaly by it. My best friend Cooper´s mother died in Tower #2. Now seeing him depressed and angry, that is not a combination that i like to see in a Marine. He volunteered to go to Afghanistan and went and i havent from him since. So when a terrorist comes into your favorite place to hang out strapped with C4 and kills some people you know, will you think that the War Against Terrorism is BS, i think not. Any day of the week i would go with my Marines to the front lines and be there Medic with out thinking twice. And to those of you who do shun the military, please do us all a favor and move to Canada, there atleast you will be amoungst yellow bellys like yourself.

 

____________________
"Roses are Red, Violets are Blue. I'm a schizophrenic, and so am I".

 

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Registered: 31/12/1969
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  posted on 3/10/2002 at 10:27 PM
Technically, murder is prematurely destroying the reactionary centers of a nervous system, or destroying another part of the body that ceases the ability to react to stimuli. So, technically, doing anything besides shitting and breathing is murder. And god knows how toxic your turds are.

Murder, in my humble opinion, is never wrong. It should rarely be a first resort, however.

 

____________________
Make way for the bad guy!

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 1570
Registered: 31/12/1969
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  posted on 3/10/2002 at 10:32 PM
Sailor I´ve said it once I´ll say it again I don´t envy your job one goddamned bit and I am ever grateful to the military men and women who cover my non military rule hating ass every inch of the way.
The war on terrorism is a joke, that is, with the way george jr is going about it. I don´t like the politics involved, and it reeks of political posturing than actual true blue eradication of organizations that are a danger to the whole world, not just us.
I don´t like seeing people get hurt, but I´m not a pacifist either. If innocent people get hurt in the country resposible for the terrorists, then that´s their own goddamned fault for putting their innocent people in harm´s way. THEY are the bastards using their civilians as human shields.
I hear so much self hatred in this country...we did this and we did that and it´s all our fault. Well if you weren´t IN this country you hate so much you wouldn´t be able to SAY that. The people in those buildings and the pentagon and the planes didn´t do shit. They didn´t deserve this. They had no part in anything our governments did to each other. If you wanna blame the government then FINE...do that, write letters, make petitions, raise your voice. But don´t take the pisswatery stance on blaming your citizenry guilt on the dead. Shame on those who do. Shame on them.
As for the war with Iraq....*sigh*
As I see it, it´s a way to distract the american public. Okay, we can´t find the real bastards, so lets put our attention on a bastard who we already know where he is. Everyone hates sadam, right? It´s a clever diversion, a way to make the public think our politicians are in control when they are not. You think we´d "win" in a war with Iraq? Bet your ass we WON´T. Sadam recently made a trade with russia. Oil for tanks. Russians make some of the most ass kicking motherfuckin´ tanks on the planet. Now Iraq has them. Sadam has already said that he will NEVER again engage in desert warfare. That´d be stupid. Head to head urban combat. No fancy weapons. No tricky techniques and gadgets, just guns and blood against people who´ve got little else to lose but their lives. People with nothing to lose are next to impossible to defeat. And why exactly are they proposing war anyway? Oil? Money? "Power"? I don´t fucking get it. One minute it´s "Down with the taliban! Stop terrorism! Saftey First!" and now it´s all about saddam? WTF?! I´ll be goddamned if I´ll stand behind a fat man´s war. No way. I won´t look down upon our boys and girls in uniform, doing their duty to a government right or wrong...it´s not their fault. I find it filthy that capitol hill rich men would put their lives on the line to fatten their wallets while claiming it´s for freedom.

 

____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.

 

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  posted on 3/10/2002 at 10:41 PM
Quite honestly, Osama, if he actually did orchestrate acts of terrorism, is more than likely dead by now. Kidney failure is rough enough without having to dodge shrapnel.

I just don´t see why we all can´t sit down and listen to some Sugar Hill Gang. Said a hip, hop, a hibbit, a hibbit to the hip hip hop and you don´t stop a rockin´ till the band down..

 

____________________
Make way for the bad guy!

 

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  posted on 3/10/2002 at 11:36 PM
But one thing you have to realize...you are seeing it from a totally "civilian" view. Sure after the bomb raids on Afghanistan where done, we turned our heads to the next terrorism supporter Sadaam. This is the WAR on TERRORISM, he supports them, we should eradicate him. Its not JUST an excuse to invade, an excuse to do what Operation Enduring Freedom is all about. If we dont deal with it now, it will just get worse and worse. Who gives two shits and a fuck about tanks. Tank artillery cannot stop nor hit a fucking loaded A-10 or F-18 or an type of bombing plane. Good luck with the slow moving armored pieces of shit. Sure Russia makes a good tank...but what good are they if we dont send much ground support. They take our planes and crash them into our buildings, We will take our planes and bomb the shit outta them. And in my opinion, there are no non-combatants if they support IRAQ. Fuck´em all and them them burn.

This Sailor send with upmost respect for peoples opinions and views.

-Morte

 

____________________
"Roses are Red, Violets are Blue. I'm a schizophrenic, and so am I".

 

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  posted on 4/10/2002 at 07:02 AM
Bettie, I know you fear for our boys in the field, and beleive me, nobody really wants to see harm come to an american soldier. But the truth is, they signed up to die. That is their job, given, they are supposed to try their damnedest not to, but, they aren´t trained to use handgrenades for nothing.

If you wanna talk about political wars, look at Jersey, if you want to talk about terrorists and weapons of mass destruction, then look at the Middle East.

 

____________________
Sometimes I dream about dinosaurs shopping for cargo shorts at the Gap. Does that make me a bad person?

 

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  posted on 4/10/2002 at 09:06 AM
I agree with Bettie. However destorying Sadam would be great. In my opinion I think we should wait, stratagize a little more. We have just gotten Afganistan. It would be a better idea to make some of the middle east countries into allies. I saw an interveiw with Iran citizens, and many of the college students support the U.S. This is why I think we should wait a little while longer. Wait until our allies numbers increase. Then strike a huge blow to Sadam. But wait what if Sadam attacks first? He has been building chemical weapons for years. Simple we keep him busy with inspectors. Instead of what we have now we send them in when ever we feel like it. Sadam well be to busy hiding his weapons to care about what were are planing. Every time we think he is poised to attack, we send the inspectors desmantel what ever we can find. Then he will have to rebuild wait for the timing to be right, and we do it to him again. All the time he knows one slip and we would be the first to strike. Maybe a three prong plan to keep him distracted would be better.

 

____________________
co-worker: "Your gay!?"
myself: "Didn't you see my rainbow pin?"
co-worker: "I just thought you liked skettles."
-(yes, it actually happened to me)

 

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  posted on 4/10/2002 at 10:05 AM
Inspectors???

Do you realize just how much of a joke they are. Do you really think that a group of what, 12 people tops are going to find when they walk around in Iraq, I´ll tell you what they´ll find, everything that Saddam wants them to. Even with a thousand inspectors, we´ll never find his weapons plants. The only thing that inspectors are good for is when Saddam gives up, and shows us his weapons, then they can oversee the dismantling of said weapons.
He has told previous inspectors that places were off limits. And when a Represenatie went to Iraq to give a speech, he was offered to look at a suspected Weapons plant. When he told them that he would have no idea what to look for and would rather not, they confiscated his camera, and put him back on a plane home.
Saddam would much rather have the inspectors running around on his leash than have US troops "inspecting".

 

____________________
Sometimes I dream about dinosaurs shopping for cargo shorts at the Gap.
Does that make me a bad person?

 

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  posted on 4/10/2002 at 10:19 AM
Frankly, I´m amazed that parts of the Middle East haven´t been turned into giant parking lots that glow in the dark.
I know I´ve been getting what the media wants me to hear, but I still don´t think Bush is doing a bad job. I´d much rather have him in office, bickering with the UN, than have someone like Gore who would have bent over and apologized for our buildings getting in the way of the planes.
Saddam needs to be taken out. He doesn´t just have Russian tanks, he has biological and chemical weapons, and he has demonstrated his willingness to use them. He is a dictator who supports terrorists, and as such, the bitch needs to be smacked down.

 

____________________
Okay, dazzle me.

 

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  posted on 4/10/2002 at 11:45 AM
Yes, it is a civilian point of view...and if a war can be avoided, then that is the side I´m on. I know that it is inevitable that it will end up in war. But also from a civilian point of view I haven´t heard any conclusion to the taliban/al qiada (spelled?).
I´ve read newspapers and come away with nothing, no black and white explanation as to WHY we are now going after Iraq. I hear reasons from years ago that should have been taken care of then...and I hear "new" reasons..basically that he´s a bastard (what else is new) and fucks with our oil imports. A lot of this is oil and power in addition to the same reasons we got into it with him before.
Morte as you know I am far from a pacifist. There is nothing I would like better than to find the fuckers and wipe them off the ass of the earth. I am suprised too that the whole middle east hasn´t been reduced to a big glass skate rink that glows in the dark. Luckily they haven´t.
The inspectors are a joke, and what will they do if the DO find something? Out of the blue saddam just decides to let them in with no conditions? Bullshit! Somethings up.
I do fear for those in the military. I also fear for my family, myself, and others. This whole situation reeks of WWIII. I don´t like the idea of that one bit. With nuclear arms and biological weapons out there, I get nervous. It could hit anywhere. We had an anthrax scare at my work....an employee found a bag of ours with a pack of cigarettes in it. To decide wether or not to throw it out or hang onto them for the owner, he opened them up and white shit went EVERYWHERE. I figured it was either cocaine or a hoax, but it was fucking scary. I had underage employees working at the time...employees that I was responsible for. My lead sales had been covered by it. I had customers walking in and out and there wasn´t a damned thing I could do except call the fire department, lie to my customers, and wait for the results.
With something so minor, it really really puts me on edge to think how possible it is that next time it will be something worse.
I just want it over. I don´t want to think about the attack or the future ones, but we all have to if we have any hope of a future.
I guess reading too many nostradamus books when I was little made me a tad paranoid...but just because you´re paranoid doesn´t mean they aren´t out to get you.

 

____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.

 

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  posted on 4/10/2002 at 01:23 PM
I used to be one that were totally anti-war... I even opened a discussion here before saying that USA shouldn´t attack Afghanistan... but after some time, I changed my views.
I still believe that war is murder, cause fact is that war is murder. But I believe that it is sometimes necessary... Usama Bin Laden did and have done lots of horrid and unhuman things, and he should be punished... I believe that very much. But at the same time I try to not really take one side too strongly. If someone I knew would have died in any of the terrorist attack, I´d be more than happy to see the f*ckers dead, mutilated body (excuse the language)... but also, if anyone I knew died because they straved to death or got sick and didn´t get help with medication from the rest of the world, or they happend to live in Afghanistan near the bomb-targets, I´d be pretty pissed too.
All I wanted to say with this meaningless message was that no killing is justified, which goes both ways.
But now Usama murdered thousands of people, and he should be punished for it... that´s all I wanted to say :roll:

 

____________________
~The World Can Continue It's Excistence Without Mankind... But What Happens To The Mankind When The Earth Is Gone?~

 

Extreme Fanatic




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  posted on 4/10/2002 at 03:30 PM
I´d be more pissed at the regime that intentionally puts it´s innocent civillians in harms way. Which is what those governments do.
I´m sure I´d be quite a bit more vehement and bloodthirsty if I´d been eye witness to the attack..to see all those people jumping from 80 stories up. If I´d lost some one. But we all did. We lost 5K people, all civilian. 5K people that we may have met later in life, loved later in life, cared about later in life. It didn´t just impact americans, it was around the globe...loved ones in other countries posting the names and descriptions of relatives or loved ones that live here, or were on vacation. I was on a european based messageboard and there was one forum opened for people to post the names and descriptions of people that were missing since the attack.
Even from europe, there was a list several several pages long. Parents, siblings, children, other relatives and friends.
I also heard it compared to pearl harbor...that we knew about it and that we let it happen anyway...a "sneak attack"...one that flung us full on into war. Know why it´s worse than pearl harbor? More dead, more out of the blue, and in "peace" time...and it´s the only mainland attack on US soil. They hit us on our home field, and for a lot of people here it was a wakeup call. We´re not so safe, we´re not so untouchable.
It´s not so much that bush is an idiot...he is, and it´s kind of funny and kind of cute in a dumb animal sort of way...there´s just something else about him, something in his eyes, just the FEEL of him that makes me edgy and nervous and uncomfortable.
We´ve had dorky gumpy presidents before...lyndon johnson was a horrible clutz...regan had his finer moments...none were BAD...but Jr just creeps me right the hell out. Like mabe the idiot is a facade.
I dunno. Like I said, I´m just too paranoid for my own good.

 

____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.

 

Fanatic




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  posted on 4/10/2002 at 03:31 PM
The level of lack of knowledge hurts me. People who are ill-informed and undereducated having strong view points, and expressing them unjustifiably. Why? Don´t you understand what it is to take a life?
In war you usually take the lives of strangers, people you have never met. Sure a gun makes it sound easy, but think about using a knife. That is a bit traumatic isn´t it? How many stabs do you think it will take? Will they die right away? What about hands? Really try to think about killing someone with your bare hands. Now you have never met this person, you do not know their personal views, what their family is like, who they are, what their favorite thing to do is, or even what their favorite color is. However, you have a chance to be in a more intimate situation with that person that only their mother has been able to have a similar experience. Lets say you wrap you fingers around their neck: you knuckles turn white from force on his neck, of which your adrenaline and rage are responsible. He is angry too, and also tries to grab for your neck, but you GET FUCKING ANGRIER, and push all of your weight down on his neck; smothering his pathetic fucking attempts of taking your life. You are in control, he is going to pay for what he stands for and all that he has done, all of the people he has wronged. You clench your teeth, they grind as you angrily look into his eyes. ´STOP IT! STOP FUCKING MOVING!!!!´ you think. His face has been turning progressively redder, his rage in his eyes is as great as yours, yet the way he is drooling and struggling is starting to become frantic. You smile now, he is looking really ridiculous. "DIE YOU FUCKING NIGGER/JAP/CHINK/GOOK/RAG HEAD/NAZI/FAG/JEW/COMMUNIST/SPIC/TERRORIST!!!!!"
He starts convulse more, but it is becoming easier to control him. How long has it been? Seems like 10 minutes to me. He takes his focus off you, and looks past you, urging for seizure of his current situation. He stops trying to grab you, and starts to weakly tap you, as if trying to say "Ok- play is over." because he has never been this far, never this close before. He looks at you again, this time scared, but only for a second. His whole body is going weak now, easier to control, much easier. In fact he is now becoming so limp that it is difficult to keep your posture, you have to move to accommodate so you may keep your grip. You have a sense of relief and satisfaction when he finally takes his arms off your shoulders and lays them at his side. He looks like he is going to pass out, but he is STILL FUCKING TWITCHING! He won´t stop, he should be dead by now!... His face has a ridiculous expression on it now, mouth lightly accented by salivated foam, and his teeth are smeared with a hint of exquisite blood. You move your hands away in amassment, insight has just struck you, he is dead! Why is he heaving? He should be still! Just like on TV! Why did it take so long? Did it? What am I doing? What have I done? Fuck him, he deserved it.... Right?/Yeah damn right he did! He- just him, killed 1000’s of people! He is responsible for the pain and suffering of many! He has wronged us! HE IS A FUCKING MURDERER!

look at your hands

 

____________________
The OBOLISK is Divine.

 

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  posted on 4/10/2002 at 03:35 PM
You may murder as many as you want. I will murder none. I am above you and always will be. I will not become you. I am a pacifist.

 

____________________
The OBOLISK is Divine.

 

Fanatic




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Registered: 6/7/2002
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  posted on 4/10/2002 at 04:25 PM
(Note: I know I contradicted what my first post on this thread had stated, let’s keep cool but the insults have again arrived, in a form I had not anticipated..)
Again you’re following the same pattern.

Believe what you will but saying that you are ABOVE the people who are FORCED to fight and die for your right to live is arrogant and offending. Do you think that all these people wanted to be taken away from their homes, families, friends, jobs, lives?

I’ve seen my friend die before my eyes, I know what death looks like as have many people in this site. I’m not talking about TV, in my mind, in a game or a movie either. We are not ignorant to what reality is so please do not assume that.

I am still willing to go and fight against zealots who have greatly wronged a peaceful religion, using it as a reason to kill whomever they please. How about we send you over there to talk it out? You will probably be decapitated like Mr. Pearl was. You think talking peacefully will work? Look at history, peaceful philosophers felt the wrath of the people.

To say that peace solves everything is to live in a fantasy land. I’m sorry but that’s not reality. Again you’ve insulted many people by clamming some sort of dominance with your ideals. We are all animals, we all have to fight and kill to survive. We all have killed one life form or another.

A animal, a vegetable *if you eat only vegetables you still are taking the life of that vegetable*, a tree *paper, even recycled it came from a tree* etc. You have taken a life just to survive so don’t give me any of that “look at your hands” crap! You are not a god, you are not some messiah, you are not some evangelists nor being a “pacifist” will make you one. Face it, you are a human, we bleed the same, we breath air and we think independently.

Before humans came to this planet there was violence. Other animals can be even greater savages over territory, family, food or just for the hell of it. The world may be coming to a end, we atleast have to fight that somehow. Even in the Christian bible a peaceful Christ will fight the Devil.

Perhaps one day, when people finally realize that we are all the same, there will be a everlasting peace. We will not disarm though, violence will still be in our lives because life is a struggle for survival. We all have gone threw that struggle, we may not want to see it again, we may shun it with big words and condemn those who are angry about it but it will always be there and we will have to fight, one time or another.

- I am not asking you to change your way of thought but ATLEAST give respect to where it’s due. Those people are damn good people out there in those fucking deserts, those fucking forests, those fucking hills and fighting does not make them any less of a life form.

If you are angered by my words, forgive me.

I still haven’t been satisfied though about one of my original inquiries, should the FBI have a serious overhaul? They could have prevented 9/11 but childish bickering had stopped the people from working together. Again I ask to take a look at this link. The Man Who Knew.

 

____________________
SRC="http://www.rpgclassics.com/shrines/snes/ff6/images/characters/kefka.gi
f"> size=1> but at least you know, just how much pain there is in living

 

Fanatic




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  posted on 4/10/2002 at 05:13 PM
Even pacifism is murder. Innundation of cultures has proved to be more murderous than anything else- with the withdrawl of English forces at Ghandi´s protest, the Indians went back to alying eachother by the millions for no reason. Ghandi has a better track record for murder than Stalin and Hitler combined with a little bit of Alexander thrown in for sport.

And, I have said this before and will say it again-- promoting a consumerist lifestyle is the ultimate act of violence one can commit against any poor nation. Saturation of a culture with cheap shit only goes further towards destroying the culture and creating greed amongst its members and thus creating classist attitudes, destroying all rule and ultimately resulting in rebellion over the ruling culture, creating turmoil for endless years and fnally, when the nation recovers we have to go to war with it over commercialization. Russia, Africa, India, the Middle East, Philipines, Thailand.. All victims of our exporting commercialism and capitalist thought to nations who could not afford the concepts. And you want to promote pacifism.

Why? because then you can blame the leaders of other nations for treating their people like shit, eating the weak and being animals to eachother until we act, and any deaths we incur on the population are vile and evil and murder?

Fuck that. Fuck this filth. Fuck it all!

You want to know why this war had to happen? Because they were too damn rich from the oil. The culture cannot survive with signifigant amoutns of exportation, so they can afford to do things the most innappropriate and stupid ways. Same thing in America with Christians-- only we create enough revunue selling ourselves our own shit that we won´t even be able to react when we turn into the American Empire. If they were a poor nation the culture would not survive-- it´d get exported for a while for a bunch of rich kids on lavender hill somewhere to get all horny and steamy over and maybe get a retro movement a few years later. And then they´d be suckling off the tit of cheap capitalism as well, 7 middlemen to wrap one package increasing cost to the consumer and draping their traditions in shit consumer holidays to keep companies alive and functioning, while all they can export is cheap labor and low taxes to try and bring the factories to their countries so a few members of the population can have jobs and try to support some of their people.

FUck them all! Fuck it all! Fuck you! Fuck them! Fuck alla this shit!

 

____________________
Make way for the bad guy!

 

Fanatic




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Registered: 31/12/1969
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  posted on 4/10/2002 at 05:43 PM
I admire the one that can take a life, for they are truly greater than I. I do not feel worthy of taking a life- I am not a god.
No one is forcing those ´good souls´ to fight, they as you said, signed up. Also, what if this escalates out of hand? Then there may be a draft and people will be required by governmental intervention and ’forced to fight’. This does not have to be true however. If every army sat down, crossed their arms and said "I will kill no more." war would end. If every person said "I will murder no one." and acted on that pledge, Murder would no longer exist.
As for fighting terrorism: "One man´s terrorist is another man´s revolutionist." said someone at a time. These ´terrorist´ are just as passionate about their cause as you are to yours. You say "they should be eradicated", they say the same about you. It becomes a double sided coin; no one has justice, no one has brought true pride to their cause. It is like two elephant seals beating each other on a beach. Soon they both become covered in blood and perceive to be one writhing mass of senseless carnage.
Yes, I eat food, food made from another life form. Yes, I need it to survive. But humans are different, we have so much potential. Sometimes it may not seem so.
Human beings are sentient. That has never happened to any other species before in the history of the planet, and it may never happen again. We should try- just maybe- to see where we can go with our wonderful rare qualities. The outcome may just be better than any war can produce.
We have the capacity to resist murder, and use our minds to benefit rather than to eradicate every threat.
The terrorists in the September 11th incident were suicide terrorists. What does this mean? They are all dead. There is no one to punish for these mass murders. No one individual. Osama Bin Laden financed a good majority of this attack, however it was considerably cheap. Muhammad Attah was the ring leader of this attack, he knew more information than Osama ever could have. The reason why the media jumped to the conclusion that Bin Laden was responsible for the attacks was because of his strong influence over the first bombings of the world trade center buildings in 1993. Of course because I am one person, and have not lived through any of these events first hand (like 99.999999999999999% of the world population) I cannot say these are true facts as any ´facts´ given by the media. But these are the ones I trust.
Muhammad, like the rest of the terrorists on those planes, are dead. They have SUICIDE in their act of horrible massacre. It is unfortunate, but there is no one to truly punish for it. Again they are DEAD.
Who are you going to punish? Rebel Islamic groups that may never have done anything, but have the potential to? These are people with an opinion, a very destructive opinion I believe, however it is just a thought. I wish they didn’t think this way. Just like you, I wish I could show them something beautiful, worth nurturing rather than worth destroying. But these people are willing to destroy their lives to support what they believe. Yes, that is again difficult to handle, difficult to change. I cannot solve all problems: but i ask, what is wrong or disrespectful with having the compassion and love of life and humanity to try?
A country didn’t attack the U.S., an army didn’t either. A group of people with a thought did. So who in this group do you seek revenge in? The enactors of the incident you are ‘involved’ in are dead. There is no one to punish justifiably.
So lets say you are not seeking revenge on these people but rather you are looking at eradication for prevention. Who do you kill?
As you know Islam, like all other religions, is not a country or race. It is an organized group of people yet not one with a controlling government, but a silent god. Al-Quida, the terrorist organization ‘behind’ the September 11th attacks are like a Religion. Just like a religion it is not a feature on the body, a country, or a race. You cannot look at a group of people and truthfully say “They are Al-Quida.”. You can only justifiably kill those potential terrorists that admit they are with a terrorist organization.
Now lets say you have crudely chosen a group of people and call them potential terrorists. You eradicate them. Now look and reflect on yourself. Who is right here? Yes I know, they ’were going to get you’ but you killed them before they could make any action. There was only a potential. So where was the threat you were so afraid of? The threat has been executed.
-But wait, that threat against humanity is YOU! That isn’t justice, you have become your own worst enemy. A random psychopathic murderer, a person that seek out to kill groups of people that go against you and threaten your existence and way of life. And in this act you have destroyed their existence and way of life. You are now that “Terrorist“.
And remember Oklahoma was enacted by ex-military men. Men of the U.S. Army and U.S. citizens.
Are you planning on killing a few Americans to protect the American way of life from potential American terrorists?
Your words do not offend me at all. Your words frighten me. They remind me of the mindless beast that humanity can be.
Murder is wrong, whether if it is in the name of country, God or self. The only life you have the right to take may be your own.
If humanity isn’t good enough to use its given mind, and isn’t good enough to live to its potential, then may there be a war so great not one soul is left standing. Let the animals take roam again, killing as they need to for living to their own potential, rather than to destroy themselves.
As for your thoughts, remember what a great, terrible man once said...

“How fortunate for those in power, that people do not think.”
-Hitler

 

____________________
The OBOLISK is Divine.

 

Fanatic




Posts: 254
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 4/10/2002 at 05:52 PM
Pacifism is not capitalism Comedian. And Fuck capitalism; I know its evils.... And Eb, honey.... Gandhi isn´t responsible for 70,000,000+ deaths like Stalin and Hitler.... In fact he tried to starve himself in protest to that fighting, which was Hindus against Muslims- another horrid mindless religious fight (my favorite flavor....). When the fighting stopped, he was pleased, but only for a while because he was soon after assassinated.
You get so cute when you are mad. :-D

 

____________________
The OBOLISK is Divine.

 

Fanatic




Posts: 522
Registered: 6/7/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 4/10/2002 at 09:34 PM
“No one is forcing those ´good souls´ to fight,”
But those in divisions are ordered to go. Yes, they did sign up but some had to, they had no other choice in life.
If I am drafted I will gladly go to fight for this land.

“If every army sat down, crossed their arms and said "I will kill no more.” war would end.”
That’s not bloody likely.

You want to know why they want us dead? We have freedom. We have freedom of choice, freedom of speech, freedom of religion and they fear that. They want to control EVERYTHING that we have and strike fear into us. And when we move into the Middle East to prevent new Hilters, feed the poor, stop genocide, to save our oil supplies etc, they get worried and shit their pants.

Those terrorist bastards have brutally mistreated their own people. They will stone to death a women if she takes off her veil and lie with every breath they take to their people. They spread false propaganda, refuse any dissident or independent thought. They raise their children the same way the KKK or any racist group does, to hate different people and destroy them.

They found their cause, we are it. We have freedom and they don’t like that. From freedom they see only a coating of sins, so they will destroy it with every chance they get.

Human beings are like all animals. Dogs, cats, dolphins, whales, all forms of life are sentient. For Christ’s sake the deer knows when wolves are coming to kill it, the alligator protects its young with every chance is has and feeds them...even the Earth itself shows a sort of sentience. If it’s abused *like it is* plagues, famine take control and fault lines move with great vigor. The atmosphere by many is considered to be a living life form.
My point? All these beings hold the same ability to resist murder. We are simply more advanced in our thoughts...even if it doesn’t seem like it.

Bin Laden financed the terrorist groups and had more to deal with 9/11 than you’d think. He and many others were responsible for that day and frankly THAT ALONE is reason enough to go over there and put a few bullet in their heads. Now Iraq itself may be helping them, Iraq also is a threat to oil and Iraq holds weapons of mass destruction. *biological and soon nuclear* 1 + 1 + 1 = 3, that’s too much of a risk.
We should stop the threat before it starts. We had the chance with Al Qaeda, to prevent 9/11 and possibly this war but we didn’t. We fucked up because of childish altercations /power trips and now we reaped what our sloth/avarice has sown.
You’re right that percentage is off. Don’t forget the bombings in Africa and the murders from Al Qaeda all over the Middle East. *and don’t forget other terrorist groups*

What if these simple “radical people” had started a genocide? What if Al Qaeda had gotten their hands on a nuclear device and some third world country hand supplied it to them? World War Three may either start or never start depending on how fast we/others act.

There is someone to punish (Al Qaeda for one), any other terrorist bastard who tries to strike against anyone which never deserved it. I for one will NOT sit on my hands with those people trying to murder the world.

Again I say that rebel Islamic groups with the POTENTIAL to repeat these actions are a threat enough. Once we PROVE they are going to strike, then that’s the call for action. About three or four years ago you may have been saying the same thing about Al Qaeda.
A threat is a threat.
If they wanted to express their opinions then they could have done it in a peaceful way but they didn’t. And frankly, America has been SHITTED on over and over again for trying to feed the poor, stop genocide and other things. Yes, we HAVE screwed up but noone is perfect.

“I cannot solve all problems: but i ask, what is wrong or disrespectful with having the compassion and love of life and humanity to try?”
“You may murder as many as you want. I will murder none. I am above you and always will be. I will not become you. I am a pacifist.”

The way you expressed yourself is why.

About those “small groups of people” who don’t have a “big Army.” That doesn’t really matter, one man can press a button which will set off a nuke a level a whole city. One man can gas a subway with nerve gas and kill 12 people. One man, with a few other SINGLE men can fly planes into our buildings and murder thousands. One man can murder and destroy like a army can.

“The enactors of the incident you are ‘‘involved’’ in are dead. There is no one to punish justifiably.
So lets say you are not seeking revenge on these people but rather you are looking at eradication for prevention. Who do you kill? - Now lets say you have crudely chosen a group of people and call them potential terrorists. You eradicate them. Now look and reflect on yourself. Who is right here? Yes I know, they ’’were going to get you’’ but you killed them before they could make any action. There was only a potential. So where was the threat you were so afraid of? The threat has been executed.”

I already covered this above or in a few previous posts but to repeat myself...
When a new threat shows we should cooperate with eachother and gather evidence proving that they are going to attack. Again I refer you to this link, covering one of my original inquiries about the FBI’s failures. If you haven´t checked this out, you really should. *i´m talking to EVERYONE reading this.


“As you know Islam, like all other religions, is not a country or race. It is an organized group of people yet not one with a controlling government, but a silent god. Al-Quida, the terrorist organization ‘‘behind’’ the September 11th attacks are like a Religion. Just like a religion it is not a feature on the body, a country, or a race. You cannot look at a group of people and truthfully say ““They are Al-Quida.””. You can only justifiably kill those potential terrorists that admit they are with a terrorist organization.”

See above.

“-But wait, that threat against humanity is YOU! That isn’’t justice, you have become your own worst enemy. A random psychopathic murderer, a person that seek out to kill groups of people that go against you and threaten your existence and way of life. And in this act you have destroyed their existence and way of life. You are now that ““Terrorist““. ”

You’re just twisting everything around and not making sense. We do NOT go around killing everything in sight...not without reason and EVIDENCE. We have enough evidence to invade Iraq and certainly enough evidence to wipe the floor with terrorist groups. Christ, if we went and killed everyone in sight and then start death factories THEN we would be no better than terrorists/ the Nazis. We made that mistake by imprisoning the Japanese after Pearl Harbor. We will NEVER make that mistake again. Our constitution, our government, our citizens won’t stand up for that shit again.

From what you’re saying, American soldiers are the same as the SS. That’s another insult.
- Your words startle me. They remind me how lazy and ignorant humans are.

Now I will quote myself again since you went alittle off topic.

“- I am not asking you to change your way of thought”

Murder is wrong but it’s unavoidable with life. Death is a way of life. I’m sorry, that’s reality.


And about the biggest bastard of them all, Hitler, he had power but he refused to think rationally. His belligerent, unimpressionable, inabilities to cooperate with his fellow man caused his own downfall.

The world is filled with that.

Our purpose in life is to live life, live with ourselves and live with others. I won’t become cynical in this specific conversation and say that our purpose is to mate, reproduce and further our own species. (so to anyone thinking that, don’t bring it up.)
We are part of the animal kingdom, if we become extinct and the animals one day reach the level of intelligence we have, they will most likely make our mistakes.

Now time for my point.

Enjoy your freedom as a American, your freedom to express yourself and live in that home. It was paid for in blood.

You don’t like the way life is then go live in a log cabin, somewhere in the mountains with no outward communication.
- If I could, I would but I can´t. I was forced in this life and now I have my own goals/people which need me. I won´t turn my back on them nor turn my back on my duty if the time calls for my action.

 

____________________

SRC="http://www.rpgclassics.com/shrines/snes/ff6/images/characters/kefka.gi


f"> HREF="http://www.pathetic.org/library.php?i_memberid=2042">
size=1> but at least you know, just how much pain there is in living

 
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