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Articles: Whats Next? |
Posted by
jadedraven on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 04:01 AM PST
So I went shopping with a guy friend of mine, and as we are walking around we briefly notice a woman in a wheelchair being pushed by some other chick. We notice them because they are following us around the store. We aren't really looking for anything, just wandering around and half an hour later, this lady is till following us, just staring. Staring is not unusual to me (or my friend), but being followed was weird. She kept getting right in our way, so we would have to go around her. Finally, I go off by myself to look at "girly stuff" and my friend won't go with me cause he is a big freak (it was only bikinis and bathing suits, not douche or anything!)
After I am alone, this woman approaches me and starts digging into me about how I should be finding god, and she gives me this card of information. I didn't want to make a scene, but she was really pissing me off with her holier than thou rant, so I ripped the card up, and let it drop on the ground, and very nicely (I thought) told her that I was already more than happy with my religion, and stalking is a crime, and I walked away, only to find out that the other lady had done the same thing to my friend when he went off alone!
When I went to the management, they said that she wasn't doing anything wrong, and there was nothing they could do about it. Call me crazy, but silly me, I always thought being able to shop without being harassed was the norm.
I wasn't talking about worshipping Satan, or walking around with white clown paint on, or dripping blood, I wasn't making a scene, or disturbing the peace, just minding my own business. My friend was wearing all black w/ a black trenchcoat, and i was dressed like I always am, "goth" or whatever you want to call it, and apparently that is enough cause for someone to get treated like shit by some people who think their shit doesn't stink.
Everyone has a right to their own opinon, but I think that assulting some random person who obviously doesn't want your "help" is taking that a little to far.
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Whats Next? | Login/Create an account | 30 Comments |
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Me first!
by Dolorosa on Feb 16, 2002 - 04:04 AM
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Sweetheart...thats what tire irons are for.
She probably had found out abouty that earlier...hence her wheelchair. Don't let 'em hunt you down and bother you, make one hell of a scene...throw shit, punch her. Then run like a bat out of hell.
Or just start laughing so hard tears come to your eyes.
I think all of us have had encounters like that...they're just some weird fucked up people, but then again...they're just people too...which means if you hit them hard enough, they fall down.
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Re: Whats Next?
by gothvail (vail@gothicamateur.com)
on Feb 16, 2002 - 04:32 AM
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Now, I realise that the vast majority or goths are pagan, wiccan, athiest, agnostic or some variation on the theme, but I find it really offensive that someone would assume that just because you are wearing black that you're not a Christian. I am, and if someone assumed I wasn't, based solely on the way I dressed, I would be really pissed off. Making assumptions about people and talking at them about how you're right and they are wrong is no way to get your point across or change someone's mind.
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Re: Whats Next? by Arthegarn on Feb 17, 2002 - 01:59 PM (User info | Send a Message) | Now that's a good idea for a poll, Devin. Are Goths actually so "alternative" in religion as we say? Most Spanish goths I know of have never cared at all about religion, but if they were to be something they would be christians(*). After the "never-ever-cred", Christians win by landslide to Satanists, Satanics, Luciferites, Wiccans and Jews (never met a muslim Goth in Spain, odd).
Anyway trying to make out which religion do you worship through your clothing is quite absurd unless you dress like a cleric. If we were to judge by that, considering standard Goth merchandise, full of crosses and ankhs, Christ and Osiris would rule the Gothic Pantheon...
As for me, I have decided to worship the amaznigly beautiful gothbabes that roam this site. Let's mount a congregation, guys!
Arthegarn.
(*) This is just my opinion, of course, based in what I call the Gibraltar Bishop Syndrome. Basically many Spanish hate the Catholic church, but if they were suggested to embrace a different one they'd answer something like "Yo, man, I don't believe in my church which is the Only True One, so how am I going to believe in yours?" |
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Re: Good poll! by Arthegarn on Feb 19, 2002 - 03:44 PM (User info | Send a Message) | That's just because you want to see how much worshipped are you around here, O my dark temptress. Now please! Who can worship Virgin Mary with someone like you around? |
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*Blush* by gothvail (vail@gothicamateur.com) on Feb 20, 2002 - 04:07 AM (User info | Send a Message) http://www.gothicamateur.com | Now, now, Arthegarn, I only want to be adored, respected and looked to in times of crisis! And if my name gets put on that poll, I will feel the need to go hide under the bed. |
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Re: Whats Next?
by nocta on Feb 16, 2002 - 06:17 AM
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Once a woman came up to my friend and told her that if she didn't stop sticking her boobs out, she'd get murdered. Of course it's not her fault she has a bigger chest than some of us. Yes, that's jealousy you hear. *shakes head* Some religions are just, for lack of a better word, crazy. I guess it's more the follower than the religion, but...
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Re: Whats Next? by gothvail (vail@gothicamateur.com) on Feb 16, 2002 - 07:30 AM (User info | Send a Message) http://www.gothicamateur.com | I think it's some of the followers more than the religion. Grumble, grumble...giving us a bad name. I don't remember any "Thou shalt not wear black" commandment, to say nothing of lipstick and eyeliner.... Goths and Christians are just wary of one another. And those of us who are stuck in the middle tend to get treated badly by both. From this unique perspective, I will tell you what I see:
Christians treating goths badly give all Christians a bad name.
Goths treating Christians badly give all goths a bad name.
It's a two-way street here, folks. If you don't extend the hand of peace and friendship, places like the Middle East and Northern Ireland just stay the way they are. Let's have a little tolerance. |
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Re: Whats Next? by callei (plyn@plynlymon.com) on Feb 16, 2002 - 11:02 AM (User info | Send a Message) http://www.plynlymon.com | There is a slight error in your logic there. In general Christians are wary of goths because they have a believe structure that promotes fear and hate. In general goths are wary of Christians because they dont like being beaten up.
The motivation for the wariness is important and significant.
At Shmeng, you will find almost every religion on the market and some custom tailored ones as well. But the only religion that comes on and tells everyone that they are being bad people for thinking is Christianity.
And one of those quirks of goth mentality, if you will, is to judge each individual uniquely, and they prefer to be judged as the single person that they are.
So telling all goths to rejudge all Christians the way you want your religion to be viewed is not really going to work.
Im not trying to be rough on you, I just want to point out that you are behaving in that way that makes Christians less liked all over the world; making blaket statements that you are good just because you say so, dismissing other people's pain and views and inconsiquencial, and evangalising.
Using the analogies of the Middle East and Nothern Ireland jsut high-lights this complaint. There are many other areas of war in the world that are based on long standing relio-ideological differences. Tibet would be a better analogy as the Tibetan are being warred at, and rarely strike back.
*sigh* Im doing it again arent I? Sorry folks. For a longer and more drawn out version of this talk (ran for like 5 days altogether and hundreds of posts) see here and to a lesser extent here. |
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Re: Whats Next? by Arthegarn on Feb 17, 2002 - 02:13 PM (User info | Send a Message) | My, my, I remember you once told me I just posted when we talked about religion and I am beginning to think that's right. Anyway we know each other well enough as to know that you aren't trying to be rough when you say I am going to go to hell by thinking.
As always, I don't agree with that, I think Christianity is a very deep and complex religion that requires a LOT of thinking, and that christianity pushes us to think. But I'd agree that some members in the hierarchies of the bigger christian churches see themselves as shepherds, and don't like it at all when a sheep turns around and says "would you explain me once again where are we going?" or something like that. To them, seglars should just shut up and be led, and a thinking seglar is a problem.
But that is some of the people in the hierarchy, not the religion itself.
Arthegarn |
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Re: Whats Next? by callei (plyn@plynlymon.com) on Feb 17, 2002 - 03:32 PM (User info | Send a Message) http://www.plynlymon.com | I agree with you that Christianity, or in your case Catholicism, can be a very deep and meaning life journey that actually improves the mind, heart and soul of people. Like in your case, it has fed your soul and mind, giving you the courage to be a decent human and stand for your weaker or less learned neighbors as a politian and lawyer. It has instilled forgiveness in your heart, compassion in your words and deeds, and kindness in your interactions with others. You think about your faith, feel you faith.
I would, and have argued that many of the people who think that they are Christian, do not in fact think, and that the "faith" that they follow teaches them not to think, or to only think inside very limited patterns. They are shunned when they doubt or question. Many American Christianities is not a welcomeing faiths. They are hostile and agressive. They throw things at your, scream in hatred outside your schools and meeting places. They block streets, not in quiet civic action, but in loud destructive mobs. They burn books(this is still very popular) and kill people.
I have never had a "christian" say "oh wow? you have some other faith? cool tell me about it, i'd love you hear about your joy." I have had that happen with some Catholics and some Christians not emersed in American Christian faiths.
When an American christian finds out that i am not Christian, they assume that i am a satanist (sooo ego-centric to think that i would follow thier other god, over looking the millions of other gods out there), and when I say "no, I dont follow ANY Christian gods" they tend to become verbally abusive. This has happened so many times.
I repeat for clarity, I have no issues with Christianity, Catholicism, Jeudism, or Islam. I do have issues with those that refer to themselves and Christian and fail to live up to that whole God is Love thing. It puzzles me that they wont say "God loves you!" in a happy voice, that instead they choose to tell me about thier loving God with thier fists or with faces red with rage and hate.
I do not believe that the cruelities that are done by people that call themselves christian should be overlooked simply because they say they are nice people and use the fact that they are christian as the only proof that they are nice people. It is circular logic and it is inherently a lie.
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Re: Whats Next?
by oohp (oohp@gotik.nu)
on Feb 16, 2002 - 02:43 PM
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Ugh, well they do that a lot here too. Jehova's witnesses usually. They stop you on the street saying stuff about god and so on and then they give you some shitty magazine or similar. Hm, I kind of got used to it. When I hear about god or see the braindead magazines I simply walk away and mind my own business. But sometimes they get rude and ring your doorbell. For situations like these I am going to buy a watergun and soak them dry. I don't care if it's an old lady in a fucking wheelchair or King Diamond's grandmother. It's still rude to ring people's doorbell and pester them with your god/afterlife/whatever crap.
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Jehova witnesses by Arthegarn on Feb 17, 2002 - 02:16 PM (User info | Send a Message) | Oohp, if you want a REALLY good thing to shut a Jehova's witness up forever, post it and I'll tell you a little secret about the word "Jehova" |
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Re: Jehova witnesses by Arthegarn on Feb 20, 2002 - 12:44 AM (User info | Send a Message) | Check your private messages, hehehe |
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A rather tender subject.. another slice anyone?
by VampCourt (Morbidchic@hotmail.com)
on Feb 17, 2002 - 02:12 AM
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Its annoying yes that religeouse people try to cram thier stuff down your throats.. but you have to also understand that they arent really looking at your life or even your point of view. which is ignorance.. (im not saying all religions are ignorant because i have met some people that were very nice to me regardless of how i looked) But the best way to deal with that situation is to just smile at them and say "No, thanks.." and walk away...
I found being Hostile isnt the best way to go.. sure your feelings are hurt.. but you dont wanna go and hurt other people as well.
i dunno.. i guess thats my strange tactic.. but i think that if we "goth" people treated people as we wanted to be treated.. then maybe perhaps we would have more respect amoung society...
:)
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Re: A rather tender subject.. another slice anyone? by gothvail (vail@gothicamateur.com) on Feb 17, 2002 - 04:50 AM (User info | Send a Message) http://www.gothicamateur.com | I agree. If there's one thing I despise, it's ignorance. Some people just don't think. I don't think that any group or religion has a monopoly on this, either. Hostility just makes them want to work harder on you, because of the feeling of satisfaction they think they'll have when you come over to the "right" way of thinking. Silly, isn't it? People are such funny little creatures. I used to get Mormons at my door all the time. Most of them very nice, attractive young men. Even took a copy of their book once out of sheer curiousity (boy, there is some weird stuff in there!). After a while they got the idea that I already had my own beliefs and they weren't going to be able to sell me theirs. |
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Re: A rather tender subject.. another slice anyone? by Alugarde on Feb 17, 2002 - 11:15 AM (User info | Send a Message) | When all else fails with a morman (or any other religion you care to try this on), you can do what a friend's brother did: listen to them talk for about 15 minutes and then say something to the effect of "Thats all well and good, except its a big lie". Of course I'm not saying that it or any other religion is a lie, I actually believe all of them are true because of the people that believe in them, its just funny to see someone's reaction to that. |
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Re: A rather tender subject.. another slice anyone? by Arthegarn on Feb 20, 2002 - 12:45 AM (User info | Send a Message) |
I like mormons. I have turned some of them., that’s what we call in Spain to “go for wool and come back wooled”. And it was satisfactory, yes. The real point, I think is not to not try converting others to your religion, but not being a proselitist trying to turn those who don’t come to you to ask. Our duty (I mean mine) is to spread the Good New and tell people Christus Resurexit, not to convince them to come to mass. If they are interested, let them ask.
I liked that of selling beliefs. Hey, people, sure you don’t wanna buy a nice piece of Universal Gothbabe Church? It’s new, It’s prestigious, it gets you the most beautiful of idols and if after a year you don’t like it, you get a refund :-D
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Re: Whats Next?
by Cashmere (-)
on Feb 18, 2002 - 06:48 AM
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I completely sympathize with you. I live in a predominantly southern baptist town where, if you are under thirty and do not dress in clothing from the GAP, you are immediately persecuted as "freak". They even have their eight and nine year old children handing out pamphlets and telling me "Mommy says you're going to hell. " Accosting me is one thing because I do not look "normal", but sending third graders to do it?
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Re: Whats Next? by nocta on Feb 19, 2002 - 12:45 AM (User info | Send a Message) | That makes me very sad. Let kids be kids, for crying out loud. They don't need to worry about going to hell, and they certainly don't need to be taught to accuse others of it. Brainwashing is bad. |
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Re: Whats Next? by gothvail (vail@gothicamateur.com) on Feb 19, 2002 - 03:19 AM (User info | Send a Message) http://www.gothicamateur.com | I agree. Let your kids figure out some of this stuff for temselves. I firmly believe that the following diagram is always true:
Ignorance > fear > hate
This is why I cannot tolerate ignorance in any form. Just pisses me right off. Before you denounce something, please, PLEASE know what it is that you are denouncing. People, whatever they look like and however they dress, talk and act are still people with thoughts and feelings, likes and dislikes, just like me or you. Why aren't we all required to learn this basic principle? |
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Re: Whats Next? by Arthegarn on Feb 19, 2002 - 03:48 PM (User info | Send a Message) | Yep. I wish I could talk my fellow Romans to quit introducing their babys into a community they can't understand and let them grow and decide for themselves. I was baptized at ten, and I don't think I am any less Catholic (or christian) by that. Actually I would say a little more. |
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Re: Whats Next?
by Anonymous-Coward on Feb 19, 2002 - 09:26 PM
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And what is wrong with "worshiping Satan"?
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Re: Whats Next? by Arthegarn on Feb 20, 2002 - 12:43 AM (User info | Send a Message) | It depends what do you understand by Satan. Personally I wouldn’t say Luciferites are precisely on the road to salvation.
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Re: Always wondered.... by bettie_x (strangersangel@hotmail.com) on Feb 25, 2002 - 11:42 PM (User info | Send a Message) http://bettie_x.tripod.com/strangeasangels/ | hmm, benifits...pros and cons....well it depends on which form of satanism you "adhere" to.
There are the typical inverted catholic satanists...take everything to do with xianity and the catholic church and do the opposite with old scratch at the helm. Can't blame them really, nobody knows how to party like the catholics....but nowadays what I've seen is that they worship the devil but "dont' believe in god" . In my opinion if you believe in the devil as the adversary, then you would have to believe in god as his opposite. You don't have to LIKE him, but if the devil exists, then so does god.
Lavey satanists are different alltogether. There is no god, no devil, you're pretty much an athiest with an agenda. "Satan" is used as a catalyst to convey the idea of freedom, being the rabblerouser, casting off the sleepy and drugged mob mentality and "do gooder" obligations. That is, if you aren't obedient, cowed, and do socially compulsory "good deeds" you are bad.
The idea of satan as it's root word and translation of "the opposer" "the adversary"....that as a satanist you challenge your situation, your world, their ideals, to THINK, not only for yourself, but think for a change and ACT. Along with responsibility for your self...self won rewards and defeats.
I had a cowboy in the food court stop me and ask me if I believed in jesus christ. I stopped and talked for a moment with him, so as not to spread the stereotype of bad manners and anti socialistic behaviors of those who like striped socks and tennishoes. I said he existed...didn't hold much water with that son of the so called "god" bit, but loved his work. He said "what are you, a wiccan or something?" I told him that was a very personal question, which embarassed him, and said I was athiest...no god, just me. he said "just you?" I said "yup, just me and the universe, and mercy on the world should we ever figure each other out"
He laughed....then I found out he had been stopping by my work looking for me...probably to bring me to christ. Can't wait.
If you want just plain old good reading, written by and for those with short attention spans, and some insight into the man called the closest incarnation of the man downstairs to manifest in the flesh, read these books...they're cheap, and can be found at borders and barnes and noble:
"the devil's notebook"
"satan speaks"
and for the girlie girl women's lib folks:
"the satanic witch"
now if you've got a lot of brain power and focus to do so, which I've not, read the satanic bible. It's a hoot, but a workout.
For further insight, go to www.churchofsatan.com and read what they have to offer. Most modern satanists you will find are very tounge-in-cheek, black humored, witty and intellectual....you will find morons too, and they irritate me like any moron does. And if you think GOTH has a bad name, imagine what kind of a reputation SATAN has.
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Re: Whats Next? by jadedraven (smithsm@alfredstate.edu) on Feb 24, 2002 - 11:55 AM (User info | Send a Message) | sweetie, I never said anything was wrong with it, but I don't do it and I don't like the fact that people who wear pentacles are immediatly labeled satanists.
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Re: Whats Next? by Ianthe99 on Feb 25, 2002 - 12:55 PM (User info | Send a Message) | Thank you Jadedraven!! Pentacles.. point up or down.. dont necessarily indicate a satanist. People dont seem to understand that sometimes. |
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Re: Whats Next? by bettie_x (strangersangel@hotmail.com) on Feb 25, 2002 - 11:20 PM (User info | Send a Message) http://bettie_x.tripod.com/strangeasangels/ | Nothing is wrong with it, unless you're one of those idiots like in the german slayings that killed a homeless man with a hammer and kept him in their apartment on a coffin shaped coffee table, drank his blood, carved a six pointed star in his belly and put out cigarettes on his back.
My only offense to being called a "devil worshipper" is that it's said accusatorily and not matter of factly...that and that they assume I kill stuff, and i'm vegan and even the DAIRY industry makes me angry.
Also, I'm a lavey satanist, which is not "devil worship" but a fun form of athiesm using the figurehead of "satan":the opposer, the adversary as a catalyst for an ideal of self indulgence AND responsibility and casting off of social expectations and civil "duties" and the trappings and bullshit of society.
It'll be okay, nobody here will pick on you if you love the devil...unless you're killing animals, and then you'll have the great righteous vegan avenger aka bettie x on your evil little ass.
hail satan and all that jazz, I guess. Is that what I'm supposed to say? I'm so confused..no wonder religion never worked for me.
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