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Author: Subject: Prison Scandal

Extreme Fanatic





Posts: 893
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 12/5/2004 at 11:31 AM
Well, since the only forum that's been getting posts recently is the damn question game, I thought I'd put something up a bit more intellectually provoking...

Unless you've been living under a rock, you've heard about the abuses at the prison in Iraq. Sodomy, humiliation, all sorts of bad stuff. The soldiers blame it on the intelligence spooks. The spooks disavow any knowledge. The figureheads of the Defense Department and the CIA say it wasn't their fault and that they acted as quickly as they could. The Red Cross said they told those figureheads about the abuses months ago.

And George W. Bush thinks Donald Rumsfeld is doing a 'superb' job.

So what do you all think?

 

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Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 759
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 12/5/2004 at 12:24 PM
I say we dye the skin of the pres, BUMSfield, and all the spooks that can be rounded up and admit them to the prisons as insane spies. and video tape it.
Asia pays good money for those kinds of tapes, or so i hear. Hell it might even help pay for the war and the widows and orphans fund.
in other less sarcastic words, it makes me ill.

 

____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires away.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 656
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 12/5/2004 at 03:14 PM
Four simple words: get rid of Rumsfeld. In matter of fact, the GOP will remain crooked as long as he's in there...along with a few other people.



[Edited on 5/12/2004 by Anya]

 

Coward




Posts: 8
Registered: 28/3/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 12/5/2004 at 04:55 PM
mmm...oh joys, you get to hear a rant:

The powers that be say that it was the fault of their underlings, the underlings dispense it among their men, and their men accuse each other. Are you honestly going to tell me that this shit was goin on without the knowledge or approval of someone in power? DO you think that this someone in power could resist telling his buddies "Oh man, you say your guys are doing a good job with their sector, well listen to this..." Screw the red cross, they said something, probably, but did they -do- anything? We're supposed to be 'helping iraq sort out its gov't' yet we give them this shit as an example? Hey, everybody, Hitlers back, hes the prez. I seriously dont think that this was the act of a small contigent of pee ons. Originally, sure, a bit of beating and terrorizing of a few prisoners, no big deal, but someone had to make it routine, and they couldnt have done that without authorization, and it couldnt have been authorized without it being whipsered up the chain.

I'm sorry, does my anti-patriotism show? Pardon the rant, and ignore it if you wish, but the question got me going.

[Edited on 12/5/2004 by Kittyn]

 

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I have a signature. Am I special now?

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 658
Registered: 27/5/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 12/5/2004 at 09:50 PM
First of all, Ironboots I lived under a rock for many years and object to yor characterizing us rock-dwellers as oblivious. For shame!

Second of all, I think yoo people are missing the point here. Torture is entirely neccessary, we need to make the Iraquis more upset with us so that the terrorists will be more likely to attack us. When they attack us we'll know who they are and kill them! Then the Iraqi people will be free to practice the system of governemnt we choose for them. Then everything will be okay!

 

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i wanted to die, and then it progressed into wanting everyone else to die so i could watch, and then me die.

-ickgirl

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 1570
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 12/5/2004 at 10:40 PM
Yeah! Totally, and then the economy can get fucked hard again, we can all sit on unemployment, and then since we'll be at war again they can raise gas prices even FURTHER than they are now, and those of us that still have jobs will go bankrupt just DRIVING there!!

And didn't the last attackers already tell us it was them? We kinda already know who it is, we just can't find that slippery 90 year old nomad on kidney dialysis.

 

____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.

 

Member




Posts: 119
Registered: 4/4/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 13/5/2004 at 12:13 AM
i only have one thing to say on this issue.

GB invades iraq (he never had the right to in the first place)
They take prisoners
They toture the prisoners
The iraq freedom fighters take a prisoner and hack his head off

yes, i said hack, i have watched the video, this mad died screamingin pain, for 15 sec he was in pain. i know im only an aussie, and i really dont matter, but i cried when i saw this, i cried because we as humans have sunk this low, because this mad did for out mistakes. GB invaded, without thinking it through, and know he had blood on his hands.

 

____________________
I know whats it like to want to die, how it hurts to smile, how you try to fit in but you can't, how you hurt yourself on the outside, to try to kill the pain in the inside.

 

Fanatic




Posts: 580
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 13/5/2004 at 01:45 AM
What do I think...? The same thing I thought before this idiocy happened when I was ranting and marching against it and having my patriotism questioned. I think you people are easier to play than a fucking plastic recorder and it doesn't matter how many lives and civil liberties are torn apart while you reel in feigned simple-minded shock and mortification at every new piece of evidence that the USA and the UK are every bit as bad as the worst tinpot dictator in the tiniest third world shithole.

I think that those "scandalous" pictures you saw (and I can say with the authority of someone who blundered into an anti-American rally in a foreign country that you have not nor will you see the half of them in the United States) are WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DO THINGS LIKE THIS! You're shocked? Appalled? Questioning your undying support for killing people in other soveriegn nations? WHAT IN THE HOLY HELL DID YOU THINK WOULD HAPPEN WHEN YOU WERE WAVING YOUR FLAG AND SCREAMING FOR BLOOD?

I'm sorry, the vast majority called me an unrealistic pacifist (amongst other things) while they were chomping at the bit to invade a soveriegn country... and now they have the fucking temerity to act shocked? Did you think nobody would be harmed? Did you think no abuses would occur? Do you think that wars are sanitary affairs where families aren't torn apart and nobody dies in pain???? You screamed for suffering and now you have your fucking suffering. Time to take some fucking responsibility and shut your coddled, naive little pablum holes. I made my position against this clear from the start... I say that a world court should decide who to hold accountable... AND ONE THAT ISN'T AS RIFE WITH CONFLICTS-OF-INTEREST AS THE USA WAS WHEN PURSUING THIS DEBACLE IN THE FIRST PLACE! Sorry this didn't turn out to be the Hollywood action/adventure you thought it would be. Sorry that killing people and seizing their resources while breaking apart families and ensuring generations of retaliation didn't win their "hearts and minds". Sorry you had to be inconvenienced by seeing pictures of some small part of it. Dumbasses.

While we're on the topic... what do you think is currently going on in Guantanamo Bay where we are holding Afghanis in violation of the Geneva Convention? What do you think is going on in the "secret" naval brigs in Charleston, SC where we are STILL holding US CITIZENS with no charges, access to legal counsel or the media or ANY INTENTION WHATSOEVER to prosecute them in violation of the US Constitution???? For that matter, where is Saddam Hussein and what charges will he face apart from having done business in the past with Bush the Elder and Rumsfeld against Iran when Khomeini was the top dog there? Don't think that just because you aren't seeing the photographs, that these people are being treated one iota better than the Iraqis in Falluja are. Oh... wait. I forgot. We're the "good guys"... and no photographic evidence will make people believe that we do things like that. As George the Younger said in response to this: "That's not the America I know!" Too bad that the America he knows exists only in the imaginations of a very small number of obscenely rich autocrats.

~M.

 

____________________
"I believe that woman is planning to shoot me again."

 

Member




Posts: 119
Registered: 4/4/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 13/5/2004 at 02:12 AM
AMEN monolycus!!! its about time someone started to talk with a bit of logic...

 

____________________
I know whats it like to want to die, how it hurts to smile, how you try to
fit in but you can't, how you hurt yourself on the outside, to try to kill
the pain in the inside.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 618
Registered: 27/9/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 13/5/2004 at 02:21 AM
My thoughts...

I am outraged at the fact that the current administration thinks it's okay to redefine and/or ignore the constitution any time it seems to suit their mood. I am outraged at the goings on in Guantanamo Bay (and every where else that people are told they aren't allowed basic rights because of this or that technicality). I am outraged that so many people I encounter in daily life don't seem to realize that what is in the news is not news. I am outraged that my boss told me that as she sees it that Bush just has the hardest job in the world and that he is just doing the best that he can.

I want to scream. I want to reach out and hold peoples faces so they can look me in the eyes when they say all the sloppy wonderful words of praise of all the wonderful things they think have happened because of the current administration. I'm more disappointed than I care to admit that there is really no hope that anything is likely to change very much in the next few years.

I want to rip off the little red t-shirt with the American flag on it that said "Freedom of Religion...Not Freedom From Religion." and tell the kid who was wearing it to explain to me just exactly what he thinks that means.

 

____________________
"When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I've never tried before." ~Mae West


 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 618
Registered: 27/9/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 13/5/2004 at 02:37 AM
I am also amazed that there are people out there who actually didn't think atrocities would be committed when war happens. It's war. It's not pretty nice, it's pretty horrible. It destroys, it does not create. Yet, I run into people who are shocked all the time. They think it's unusual that all these things are going on. It's not that there are new things going on, it's that now the war is on television and various other media. So now all the glorious wonders of war are right there in the privacy of your own home for your viewing pleasure.

 

____________________
"When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I've never
tried before." ~Mae West




 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 897
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 13/5/2004 at 03:00 AM
AOD, Mono already HAS been talking about this for ages and ages, only people argued with him back then instead of yelling Amen.

I will admit, I did not yell Amen back in the day. I was too fresh from having everyone brainwash me into being fanatically pro-Bush. I knew that my mind still wasn't straight enough yet to judge the issue properly. And I did not want to just go from believing everything one person said to believing everything someone else said.

So I held off with my opinion. But gradually, over the months, my opinion on the matter has solidified to the point where I will say with certainty and confidence, either Bush is a twisted, power-hungry world-dictator-wanna-be, or he is the pawn of a twisted, power-hungry, world-dictator-wanna-be administration. And, sadly to say, the stories of abuse and torture did not shock me at all.

My question is, who is Kerry? Is he any different? Is he a megalomaniac in disguise, or just another pawn? Is there any viable way in America's political system to rid ourself of this disease, or are we headed for new eras of opression? Or are we headed toward revolution? I don't think the American people are prepared for revolution. Whatever happened to that true American spirit that cried "Give me freedom or give me death"?

I cry, give me freedom, and give the Iraqi's freedom, because I would rather not live in this world that is growing around me.

And then I sit, and think of the futility of trying to change anything. Words will not change anything, and even force would not change anything. Even were the few outraged Americans with the firepower to back their views to stand up as they did in 1776, they would be quickly squashed by the vast firepower of the establishment. We're not living in the Colonial days, where it was musket to musket, and the rebels had the advantage of home-turf and frontier fighting styles. Any dreams of a second American Revolution are doomed to failure.

Is there really a chance at peaceful revolution?

 

____________________
"You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest of girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 658
Registered: 27/5/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 13/5/2004 at 05:38 AM
Well Schizo, the 21 Century American's motto is (to quote the Dead Kennedys) "Give mee Convenience or give mee Death!"

In answer to yor question about Kerry: John Kerry (or "Bush-Lite" as I like to call him) is actually a puppet of exactly the same people as our current head of state. I am not going to begin a tyraid of paranoia here, all I am saying is take a look at this man for a second.

His platform is almost identicial to Bush's platform. He has stood behind Bush the whole way since Bush took office. Take a look at the promises he's made and broken. Take a look at how he voted on issues. There has only been one elected official in US history who has accepted more special interest money than John Kerry, adn that person is George W. Bush.

I have said it before and I'll say it again: Have yoo ever seen the Haloween episode of The Simpsons where the aliens come to Earth and posess Clinton and Dole durring the 1996 election? That is the situation we have on our hands right now.

Now for the paranoia: A friend and I were discussing US presidents and the secret societies they belong(ed) to. This person told mee that this is the first election he knew of in which both of the major parties' candidates belonged to the same secret society (Skull and Bones). There was however, one other, such election. In 1832 (coincidentally the year S&B was formed) Andrew Jackson (FreeMason) defeated Henry Clay (FreeMason) as well the Anti-Masonic Party candidate William Wirt (who, incidently, was also a FreeMason).

In any case, the powers that be could give a good fuck what happens to the masses, they're actually quite enjoying this. An American getting his head sawed-off and several Iraqis being sodomized is amusing to them, though they'll foget about it tommorrow because the masses are behaving exactly how they want them to behave.

[Edited on 5/13/2004 by IamSquid]

 

____________________


i wanted to die, and then it progressed into wanting everyone else to
die so i could watch, and then me die.




-ickgirl

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 759
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 13/5/2004 at 06:09 AM
http://www.thelawparty.com/TheBushFamily.htmc jsut some fun stuff fbaout how both Jr. and kerry are membrs (?) of the same secret society. nothing strange there really.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbes_family how the FORBES' made thier money. this one isnt the first or only FORBES to run for president or hold office.

http://www.nhgazette.com/cgi-bin/NHGstore.cgi?user_action=d etail&catalogno=NN_Bush_Nazi_2 how the BUSH Family made its money. It is funny to realize that they have fewer ties to american interests than they do to overseas countries.

so on one hand we have a drug runner, on the other hand a gun runner. Which do i think is more "honest" and "better for the american people"?

I think they are both power mad freaks. so what? The rest of them have been as well. We are a capitalist country so we get what we pay for. and most of us are broke.

(both serches were fun with "family name" family fortune)

 

____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 893
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 13/5/2004 at 09:42 AM
I think a peaceful revolution is possible. The only reason the machinery runs is because people walk the treadmill. If people wake up and refuse to participate in an inept system, then the system will crumble.

But in order to get people to take a stand, they have to feel that they have the power to enact that change. So the 'only' difficulty is getting the people to believe in their own power for social change. Once you got that, the rest follows.

"The revolution will not be televised... it will be live."

 

____________________
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Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 1570
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 13/5/2004 at 11:40 AM
It is no longer a question of the best man for the job when it comes to election time, but the lesser of two evils. I dont' like that option, but it's the only option we have.

As for the "next american revolution"....honestly i think that most americans are too lazy, brainwashed, and complacent to do anything, let alone pick up arms and take their country back. I've had a bad feeling for the last few years about the future sociopolitical (is that even a word?) climate of this country, and IF it happens, it's going to be bad. Not bad that people stand up and say enough is enough, but perhaps disasterous but not least of which, ugly. Beneath the main stream of complacent doggie paddling society, there is a strong undertow of seriously angry, upset, and willful people who arent' content with just "swimming". Let's just hope for a social revolution, and not an explosive physical upheaval. But honestly, the tension is killing me.

ANd mono, I agree with you for the most part. My opinion is that Hussein has been a problem to the world and to his own people for a long time. He's a trouble maker, and a bad one. They should have taken care of him during the first saudi war, and failed. I'm glad he's gone. BUT. BIG BUT. We went in there for the wrong reason, with no clear agenda other than get rid of him, killed a lot of innocent people, and lost a lot of lives on our side as well. This will, in time, be the 21st century's vietnam. Mired in a hostile country that wants nothing to do with us, and no clear plan of why we're there anymore, or what our point was to begin with. I'm disgusted, not shocked, by the civilian mutilations on BOTH sides of the conflict. I expected it, but I'm still disgusted. I'm as disgusted by the american controlled pow camps as I am by the murder and mutilations of civilian security contractors guarding food convoys into the country. I am disgusted by the biased an inaccurate reports that go by the name of "news". Everyone knows that FOX news network is the american equivalent of Al Jazera (I know I spelled that wrong), and I'm disgusted by their expectations of americans as take what they give them as truth.
I am disgusted, but honestly, not shocked, because I know it is going to get worse.

 

____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 658
Registered: 27/5/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 13/5/2004 at 01:42 PM
Kerry will not be any different from Bush. Don't vote for either of them. Vote for a Nader, or the Green Party, or the Libertarians, or ANYONE but those two.

 

____________________



i wanted to die, and then it progressed into wanting everyone else to />
die so i could watch, and then me die.






-ickgirl

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 656
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 13/5/2004 at 02:54 PM
What really makes me laugh about Kerry and some other people are how they try to put out a Robin Hood image (take from the rich, give to the poor yay-hoo stuff) but at the same time, he's one of the richest guys in America. I personally think that it's a bit hypocritical for I am damned sure that he isn't going to be paying the tax bracket that he may put up. Hells, most to none do...

Another thing that amuses me is that most of the Democratic Party were for the war in Iraq and now a lot of them back out of the decision. John Edwards in the debates said he feels he should take responsibillity, Lieberman regrets little to nothing, BUT...Kerry takes back all the Bush back-up he did.

Schizo: I feel you. I butted heads with Mono on A LOT of this stuff, as you can tell, but I'm losing faith in the government now, as well. When 9/11 happened, I wanted to go after Bin Laden and was behind Bush all the way, but after the crap going on in Iraq, my idealism and trust in the President faded. I mean there was not that much in there in the first place, but now I'm just glaring at the Administration with malice. Now I just want the damned mess to get cleaned up and for us to get out of there. I'm sick of people playing politics with wars. My grandpa, as a Vietnam veteran, is sick of it as well.

Bettie: That's basically my stance on the situation. Hussein was a dickhead, but why aren't we then going after Prince Abdullah of Saudi Arabia? Isn't Kim Jong (right Kim?) of North Korea a big, bad ass too? Bush tries to point out that Hussein was the worst dictator, but those two got him beat. I guess he can't call his buddies (the Saudi leaders) dictators, heh. Besides, even if they were not behind 9/11, Bin Laden was funded by money trails coming from Saudi Arabia.

Bleh, forgive my rambling...my brain is fried.

 

Fanatic




Posts: 287
Registered: 31/10/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 13/5/2004 at 11:26 PM
Regarding the rapes and blatant violations of the Geneva Convention by the US armed forced, I think is icon says it all:



Regarding the presidential election:

I'm with Squid on this one. For the love of God, vote for Nader. Vote for your favortie Shmeng memeber over 35. Hell, vote for Barney. Just PLEASE don't vote for Bush OR Kerry!

 

____________________
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Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 893
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 14/5/2004 at 08:28 AM
Anya: Your grandpa is a vietnam vet? Oui... I'm feeling old... and I'm only 19...

Lady C: Ah, straight and to the point... I like that.

Oh, and I'm not going to vote for Nader, either. He says he's pro-union, but won't allow his own consumer groups to unionize. He refuses to release his tax returns, and he thinks cats cause leukemia... (www.realchange.com/nader.htm)
Oh, and that site, www.realchange.com has dirt on most of the candidates, so if you want to get disillusioned about your 'perfect' candidate, go there.

So I suppose I'll have to find someone else to vote for. Its kinda like scraping the bottom of the barrel, though...

 

____________________
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