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Ironboots
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 893 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 12/5/2004 at 11:31 AM |
Well, since the only forum that's been getting posts recently is the damn
question game, I thought I'd put something up a bit more intellectually
provoking...
Unless you've been living under a rock, you've heard about the abuses at
the prison in Iraq. Sodomy, humiliation, all sorts of bad stuff. The
soldiers blame it on the intelligence spooks. The spooks disavow any
knowledge. The figureheads of the Defense Department and the CIA say it
wasn't their fault and that they acted as quickly as they could. The Red
Cross said they told those figureheads about the abuses months ago.
And George W. Bush thinks Donald Rumsfeld is doing a 'superb' job.
So what do you all think? ____________________ Piggy's got the Conch! |
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Dolorosa
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 856 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 18/5/2004 at 11:29 PM |
Proper equipping, yeah...let me tell you, an M-16 is a crappy crappy rifle
compared to what we could and should be using.
I wouldn't mind if we went by Sun Tzu to tell you the truth, the guy had
his head screwed on straight.
Blah...this crap is just, damn...it leaves a foul taste in my mouth to even
think about it... ____________________ In the valley of the Goats, the Goat Fucker is King |
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Anya
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 17/5/2004 at 12:26 AM |
Dolorosa: I think that there's many that feel the same as you. Of course
half of my family is military (and half of those guys are sheep to the
slaughter, obligated to serve just because the person is Commander in
Chief), but either way, I support them for they seem to have little else to
do than to obey or get tossed into the chipper shredder. Correct me if I'm
wrong, I just been told by my grandpa that he had little to no choice when
he got involved in the Vietnam War - he either had the war or the cage with
Bubba in it.
I've even had some military associates that are disgusted with the current
Administration, even though they have to watch what they say. In matter of
fact, many of them vow not to vote Republican as long as people like Donald
Rumsfeld are in office.
I almost don't care what happens with Iraq anymore, I just want something
to be done and/or our troops to come home. While we have less than a
thousand deaths, there's over ten times the amount of injured...so I have
to question whether it's better with thousands dead instead. I'm a bit
disappointed with the American people for automatically swooning to someone
who was voted by less than a tenth percent of the American population,
starting in Iowa. At first I thought maybe this person wouldn't be bad,
but as far as his moral values go, he isn't any better.
Heh, a good amount of these Generals ignore a big rule in war: the proper
equipping of the troops. I just think it's funny how they can slack off on
giving the troops better equipment while spending military funds on flying
their favorite airplanes. Ah yes, good leadershi indead. Suppose they
didn't pay any attention to Master Sun's Art of War.
[Edited on 5/17/2004 by Anya] |
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Dolorosa
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 856 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 16/5/2004 at 11:58 PM |
Yikes...I know I'm a little belated on this one, but I'll give my two
penny's for the ferryman anyhow.
My thoughts on this deal...well, to say I'm not surprised is an
understatement, these things happen. I do believe the folks who were
torturing and manhandling the prisoners should be executed publiclly for a
couple reasons...one, for being stupid enough to take pictures and two, for
having the audacity to use the nuremburg defense. It's shit canned, I'd
cream 'em...to a one.
The wars we have been enaging these past few decades have been, disgraceful
to say the least. Most wars are...sometimes I wish we could elect a fuckin'
Samurai into public office, straight out.
We aren't going to have a decent president, not soon...and I doubt ever.
This whole prison scandal thing is just a symptom of a disease thats been
runnin' rampant for awhile, but the way the prez and the sec have been
handling it just leaves me with a putrid feeling in my stomach. I no longer
want to be represented by these guys, I no longer want to uphold these guys
decisions. I have lost faith in the leadership of my country, and as fucked
up as it is...I'm losin' my faith in this country as a whole.
Which may not sound like much to a lot of folks, but I've bled for this
place...and now I feel like I've bled in vain, as have those who have come
before me and will come after.
Abandon ship if you can swim. ____________________ In the valley of the Goats, the Goat Fucker is King |
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 15/5/2004 at 06:25 PM |
I know, for real. I have no problem with people that have strong beliefs
and do good things and want to do good things, but seriously. I couldn't
stand her. She had some good points, don't get me wrong, but if she wasn't
just such a...god for lack of the right term, such a MOUTHY NOSY BROAD I
wouldn't have had such a problem with her. Laura Bush does much of the
same things hillary does, pro reading, learning blah blah blah, but she's
WAY more tasteful. ____________________ Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas. |
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Anya
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 14/5/2004 at 08:31 PM |
I agree with you on Hillary. I mean I understand being a passionate
feminist that's trying to excel in society, but geez, she was not a
feminist - she was a matriarch. Heh, if you ask me, she was the one
running the country, not Bill. After all, SHE is the only one who had the
pants on in the House. *cracks a silly joke* |
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 14/5/2004 at 08:22 PM |
Laura Bush has been very quiet, and honestly I don't blame her. I DO
remember seeing an interview with her where she contradicted her husband's
belief system when he was sitting next to him and joked about their
"differences", and I do believe she's registered as a different party as
well. I like her because I'm sorry, as a first lady you don't have any
other "job" than to do wifey shit and let your husband do his job. I
couldn't stand that loud mouth hillary clinton who just wouldn't shut up
EVER, but I do feel rather badly for what it must be like in the Bush
house, with the press not only after her husband constantly (whether it's
his fault or it's relevant or not) and all the shit her daughters have been
into, and now since they're running a bit dry they're coming after her for
just being MARRIED to him. Shame on them, leave the lady alone. ____________________ Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas. |
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Anya
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 14/5/2004 at 02:27 PM |
I almost feel sorry for Laura Bush. She basically said that she could not
stand to see the pictures taken on the prison scandal (is Rumsfeld in
trouble?) and she's actually a fairly intelligent lady. Heh, there's
rumors that she's registered as a different party but keeps in the closet
about everything because of who runs the House.
Speaking of family, Bush basically told his children that he's not going to
their graduation JUST because he doesn't want the liberals of the schools
picking on him. Nice daddy work, W. |
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 14/5/2004 at 08:42 AM |
What the hell does a person's TAX return have to do with anything? Unless
they've been investigated by the IRS and there's fraud involved, it's none
of anyone's business. They're trying to do that to Laura Bush. She's just
the first lady for crying out loud, and one they can't find dirt on so far,
so they're going after her taxes? We already know she's fucking rich, get
off it already. Her husband causes enough trouble on his own you don't
have to go after his wife. ____________________ Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas. |
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Ironboots
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 893 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 14/5/2004 at 08:28 AM |
Anya: Your grandpa is a vietnam vet? Oui... I'm feeling old... and I'm only
19...
Lady C: Ah, straight and to the point... I like that.
Oh, and I'm not going to vote for Nader, either. He says he's pro-union,
but won't allow his own consumer groups to unionize. He refuses to release
his tax returns, and he thinks cats cause leukemia...
(www.realchange.com/nader.htm)
Oh, and that site, www.realchange.com has dirt on most of the candidates,
so if you want to get disillusioned about your 'perfect' candidate, go
there.
So I suppose I'll have to find someone else to vote for. Its kinda like
scraping the bottom of the barrel, though... ____________________ Piggy's got the Conch! |
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LadyCygnet
Fanatic Posts: 287 Registered: 31/10/2003 Status: Offline
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posted on 13/5/2004 at 11:26 PM |
Regarding the rapes and blatant violations of the Geneva Convention by the
US armed forced, I think is icon says it all:
Regarding the presidential election:
I'm with Squid on this one. For the love of God, vote for Nader. Vote for
your favortie Shmeng memeber over 35. Hell, vote for Barney. Just PLEASE
don't vote for Bush OR Kerry!
____________________ "To Live is to Annoy." -- Rev. Lambert Reilly, Archabbot, St. Meinrad Abbey |
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Anya
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 13/5/2004 at 02:54 PM |
What really makes me laugh about Kerry and some other people are how they
try to put out a Robin Hood image (take from the rich, give to the poor
yay-hoo stuff) but at the same time, he's one of the richest guys in
America. I personally think that it's a bit hypocritical for I am damned
sure that he isn't going to be paying the tax bracket that he may put up.
Hells, most to none do...
Another thing that amuses me is that most of the Democratic Party were for
the war in Iraq and now a lot of them back out of the decision. John
Edwards in the debates said he feels he should take responsibillity,
Lieberman regrets little to nothing, BUT...Kerry takes back all the Bush
back-up he did.
Schizo: I feel you. I butted heads with Mono on A LOT of this stuff, as
you can tell, but I'm losing faith in the government now, as well. When
9/11 happened, I wanted to go after Bin Laden and was behind Bush all the
way, but after the crap going on in Iraq, my idealism and trust in the
President faded. I mean there was not that much in there in the first
place, but now I'm just glaring at the Administration with malice. Now I
just want the damned mess to get cleaned up and for us to get out of there.
I'm sick of people playing politics with wars. My grandpa, as a Vietnam
veteran, is sick of it as well.
Bettie: That's basically my stance on the situation. Hussein was a
dickhead, but why aren't we then going after Prince Abdullah of Saudi
Arabia? Isn't Kim Jong (right Kim?) of North Korea a big, bad ass too?
Bush tries to point out that Hussein was the worst dictator, but those two
got him beat. I guess he can't call his buddies (the Saudi leaders)
dictators, heh. Besides, even if they were not behind 9/11, Bin Laden was
funded by money trails coming from Saudi Arabia.
Bleh, forgive my rambling...my brain is fried. |
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IamSquid
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 658 Registered: 27/5/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 13/5/2004 at 01:42 PM |
Kerry will not be any different from Bush. Don't vote for either of them.
Vote for a Nader, or the Green Party, or the Libertarians, or ANYONE but
those two. ____________________
i wanted to die, and then it progressed into wanting everyone else to
die so i could watch, and then me die.
-ickgirl |
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 13/5/2004 at 11:40 AM |
It is no longer a question of the best man for the job when it comes to
election time, but the lesser of two evils. I dont' like that option, but
it's the only option we have.
As for the "next american revolution"....honestly i think that most
americans are too lazy, brainwashed, and complacent to do anything, let
alone pick up arms and take their country back. I've had a bad feeling for
the last few years about the future sociopolitical (is that even a word?)
climate of this country, and IF it happens, it's going to be bad. Not bad
that people stand up and say enough is enough, but perhaps disasterous but
not least of which, ugly. Beneath the main stream of complacent doggie
paddling society, there is a strong undertow of seriously angry, upset, and
willful people who arent' content with just "swimming". Let's just hope
for a social revolution, and not an explosive physical upheaval. But
honestly, the tension is killing me.
ANd mono, I agree with you for the most part. My opinion is that Hussein
has been a problem to the world and to his own people for a long time.
He's a trouble maker, and a bad one. They should have taken care of him
during the first saudi war, and failed. I'm glad he's gone. BUT. BIG
BUT. We went in there for the wrong reason, with no clear agenda other
than get rid of him, killed a lot of innocent people, and lost a lot of
lives on our side as well. This will, in time, be the 21st century's
vietnam. Mired in a hostile country that wants nothing to do with us, and
no clear plan of why we're there anymore, or what our point was to begin
with. I'm disgusted, not shocked, by the civilian mutilations on BOTH
sides of the conflict. I expected it, but I'm still disgusted. I'm as
disgusted by the american controlled pow camps as I am by the murder and
mutilations of civilian security contractors guarding food convoys into the
country. I am disgusted by the biased an inaccurate reports that go by the
name of "news". Everyone knows that FOX news network is the american
equivalent of Al Jazera (I know I spelled that wrong), and I'm disgusted by
their expectations of americans as take what they give them as truth.
I am disgusted, but honestly, not shocked, because I know it is going to
get worse. ____________________ Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas. |
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Ironboots
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 893 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 13/5/2004 at 09:42 AM |
I think a peaceful revolution is possible. The only reason the machinery
runs is because people walk the treadmill. If people wake up and refuse to
participate in an inept system, then the system will crumble.
But in order to get people to take a stand, they have to feel that they
have the power to enact that change. So the 'only' difficulty is getting
the people to believe in their own power for social change. Once you got
that, the rest follows.
"The revolution will not be televised... it will be live." ____________________ Piggy's got the Conch! |
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callei
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 13/5/2004 at 06:09 AM |
http://www.thelawparty.com/TheBushFamily.htmc jsut
some fun stuff fbaout how both Jr. and kerry are membrs (?) of the same
secret society. nothing strange there really.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbes_family how the
FORBES' made thier money. this one isnt the first or only FORBES to run for
president or hold office.
http://www.nhgazette.com/cgi-bin/NHGstore.cgi?user_action=d
etail&catalogno=NN_Bush_Nazi_2 how the BUSH Family made its money. It
is funny to realize that they have fewer ties to american interests than
they do to overseas countries.
so on one hand we have a drug runner, on the other hand a gun runner. Which
do i think is more "honest" and "better for the american people"?
I think they are both power mad freaks. so what? The rest of them have been
as well. We are a capitalist country so we get what we pay for. and most
of us are broke.
(both serches were fun with "family name" family fortune)
____________________ Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away. |
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IamSquid
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 658 Registered: 27/5/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 13/5/2004 at 05:38 AM |
Well Schizo, the 21 Century American's motto is (to quote the Dead
Kennedys) "Give mee Convenience or give mee Death!"
In answer to yor question about Kerry: John Kerry (or "Bush-Lite" as I
like to call him) is actually a puppet of exactly the same people as our
current head of state. I am not going to begin a tyraid of paranoia here,
all I am saying is take a look at this man for a second.
His platform is almost identicial to Bush's platform. He has stood behind
Bush the whole way since Bush took office. Take a look at the promises
he's made and broken. Take a look at how he voted on issues. There has
only been one elected official in US history who has accepted more special
interest money than John Kerry, adn that person is George W. Bush.
I have said it before and I'll say it again: Have yoo ever seen the
Haloween episode of The Simpsons where the aliens come to Earth and posess
Clinton and Dole durring the 1996 election? That is the situation we have
on our hands right now.
Now for the paranoia: A friend and I were discussing US presidents and the
secret societies they belong(ed) to. This person told mee that this is the
first election he knew of in which both of the major parties' candidates
belonged to the same secret society (Skull and Bones). There was however,
one other, such election. In 1832 (coincidentally the year S&B was formed)
Andrew Jackson (FreeMason) defeated Henry Clay (FreeMason) as well the
Anti-Masonic Party candidate William Wirt (who, incidently, was also a
FreeMason).
In any case, the powers that be could give a good fuck what happens to the
masses, they're actually quite enjoying this. An American getting his head
sawed-off and several Iraqis being sodomized is amusing to them, though
they'll foget about it tommorrow because the masses are behaving exactly
how they want them to behave.
[Edited on 5/13/2004 by IamSquid] ____________________
i wanted to die, and then it progressed into wanting everyone else to
die so i could watch, and then me die.
-ickgirl |
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Schizo
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 897 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 13/5/2004 at 03:00 AM |
AOD, Mono already HAS been talking about this for ages and ages, only
people argued with him back then instead of yelling Amen.
I will admit, I did not yell Amen back in the day. I was too fresh from
having everyone brainwash me into being fanatically pro-Bush. I knew that
my mind still wasn't straight enough yet to judge the issue properly. And
I did not want to just go from believing everything one person said to
believing everything someone else said.
So I held off with my opinion. But gradually, over the months, my opinion
on the matter has solidified to the point where I will say with certainty
and confidence, either Bush is a twisted, power-hungry
world-dictator-wanna-be, or he is the pawn of a twisted, power-hungry,
world-dictator-wanna-be administration. And, sadly to say, the stories of
abuse and torture did not shock me at all.
My question is, who is Kerry? Is he any different? Is he a megalomaniac
in disguise, or just another pawn? Is there any viable way in America's
political system to rid ourself of this disease, or are we headed for new
eras of opression? Or are we headed toward revolution? I don't think the
American people are prepared for revolution. Whatever happened to that
true American spirit that cried "Give me freedom or give me death"?
I cry, give me freedom, and give the Iraqi's freedom, because I would
rather not live in this world that is growing around me.
And then I sit, and think of the futility of trying to change anything.
Words will not change anything, and even force would not change anything.
Even were the few outraged Americans with the firepower to back their views
to stand up as they did in 1776, they would be quickly squashed by the vast
firepower of the establishment. We're not living in the Colonial days,
where it was musket to musket, and the rebels had the advantage of
home-turf and frontier fighting styles. Any dreams of a second American
Revolution are doomed to failure.
Is there really a chance at peaceful revolution? ____________________ "You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the
dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest of
girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism" |
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Starlight
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 618 Registered: 27/9/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 13/5/2004 at 02:37 AM |
I am also amazed that there are people out there who actually didn't think
atrocities would be committed when war happens. It's war. It's not pretty
nice, it's pretty horrible. It destroys, it does not create. Yet, I run
into people who are shocked all the time. They think it's unusual that all
these things are going on. It's not that there are new things going on,
it's that now the war is on television and various other media. So now all
the glorious wonders of war are right there in the privacy of your own home
for your viewing pleasure.
____________________ "When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I've never
tried before." ~Mae West
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Starlight
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 618 Registered: 27/9/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 13/5/2004 at 02:21 AM |
My thoughts...
I am outraged at the fact that the current administration thinks it's okay
to redefine and/or ignore the constitution any time it seems to suit their
mood. I am outraged at the goings on in Guantanamo Bay (and every where
else that people are told they aren't allowed basic rights because of this
or that technicality). I am outraged that so many people I encounter in
daily life don't seem to realize that what is in the news is not news. I am
outraged that my boss told me that as she sees it that Bush just has the
hardest job in the world and that he is just doing the best that he can.
I want to scream. I want to reach out and hold peoples faces so they can
look me in the eyes when they say all the sloppy wonderful words of praise
of all the wonderful things they think have happened because of the current
administration. I'm more disappointed than I care to admit that there is
really no hope that anything is likely to change very much in the next few
years.
I want to rip off the little red t-shirt with the American flag on it that
said "Freedom of Religion...Not Freedom From Religion." and tell the
kid who was wearing it to explain to me just exactly what he thinks that
means.
____________________ "When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I've
never
tried before." ~Mae West
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