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Author: Subject: The Sanctity of Marriage

Fanatic





Posts: 511
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 10/3/2004 at 09:41 AM
With all the new talk of marriage and the reasons for it, I just thought I'd share a bit of shmeng that I just heard of and is absolutely disgusting me to no end.

My sister has been divorced for a few years now. She had been with that guy since she was 16, and he was very abusive toward her. She's told me repeatedly that she has no interest in ever getting married again. During the past few years, she has been dating a guy she claimed to be in love with. He recently broke it off with her to get married, to his ex girlfriend. She told me that she is still in love with him, the same night she was telling me about a new guy she was dating. This guy will soon be inheriting his own business, he's very nice to her, gives her presents, treats her very well, loves her kids, the kids love him, and everything seems happy and good. He's stayed overnight with her, but only on the weekends, when her kids are with their dad.

I just heard that they are going to be getting married, in September. This has caused me all kinds of icky feelings, because my sister is rushing into it too fast, she hasn't even tried living with him first, he hasn't tried living with her and the kids, and she has admited to me that she doesn't love him. In fact, she's still in love with the guy before, who married someone else. The only reason I can think of for her to want to marry so quickly is for financial stability. She has no idea what this guy's going to be like when it's no longer a dating relationship. She hasn't known him long enough to really know what kind of person he really is. And she doesn't love him.

None of these seem to me to be a good reason to get married. She's making a very, very big mistake. I don't know what to tell her. I'm going to see her this weekend, and I know I'm going to blow up, lecture her, yell at her, and tell her she doesn't have any sense. They should live together for at least six months to see if they can handle day to day life with each other. She should let go of the other guy and at least see if she can fall in love with this new one. She should not be marrying someone just for financial stability. There's all kinds of bad about this.

Anyone got any ideas on what would make this a good thing? What are good reasons for my little sister to be marrying a guy she doesn't love so quickly? Because I can't think of any, and I'll be damned if I'm going to congratulate her for further ruining her life.

What are good reasons to get married at all? Besides making it easier for health insurance and tax reasons?

 

____________________

 

Member




Posts: 199
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 10/3/2004 at 09:47 AM
Um, because she's shallow and the best she can hope for is a shallow relationship that pays well? The funny thing about this is it underscores what we have been saying about the gay and poly marriage issue, that "real" marriages are not any more stable than any other type, and many gay or poly relationships are more stable than regular marriages because of the degree of communication that is typically involved.

She's still mentally in high school anyway, as a result of her first husband, so maybe getting a cool senior's class ring is the best thing for her. Well, heh, the best thing aside from letting me tag her, but that's another story.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 759
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 10/3/2004 at 10:10 AM
there is no other reason to marry except to ease the paperwork for transfer of property when you die, to not testify against your partner in crime, and to make sure you know the person that has life or death control over you when you are in hosptial and unconcious.
you get taxed more to be married than to be unmarried. you pay more (without kids for sure and in many plans even with kids) for health care as married than single. there are in fact very few benefits to the marriage itself.
Now love is different, but there are no legal benefits to being in love so that doesnt count for a reason one way or the other.

If her only job skills include being good on her back and looking good at the company picnic, then she should marry him. the kids (poor tykes) will keep a roof over thier heads, have food, and so forth. its legal for him to give her money for sex if they are married, while it is illegal for him to give her money for sex if they are not.

I think is one of the things that leads to sooo many man/woman marriages; the fact that we have a concept of prostitution and that it is "bad". so the people that are really good at sex have to marry people to get paid for thier art or go to jail.

 

____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires away.

 

Member




Posts: 199
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 10/3/2004 at 10:22 AM
Paid for sex? If I thought for a second that I could get paid for sex, I'd quit my job a second later. I have trouble giving it away. Women have all the fun.
 

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Posts: 287
Registered: 31/10/2003
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  posted on 10/3/2004 at 12:06 PM
One should never get married for mercenary reasons if one can help it, especially if one isn't in love with the potential spouse. I got married for purely mercenary reasons to a guy who should have just been a friend, nothing more. I was in love with someone else who had rejected me, and I guess I just liked the idea of being worshipped, even if he wasn't what I wanted.

Now I'm in the midst of an amicable divorce, and I've finally got him to a point where he almost always respect my boundaries (something he never did when we were married). I am very grateful that divorce is legal, though I wish lawyers weren't so expensive.

It'll be quite a while before I even consider getting married again. It's a too much of a headache, though it would be nice to have a partner for babies and stuff.

Good luck to her, MJ...she's going to need it.

 

____________________
"To Live is to Annoy." -- Rev. Lambert Reilly, Archabbot, St. Meinrad Abbey

 

Fanatic




Posts: 459
Registered: 15/2/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 10/3/2004 at 01:23 PM
Callei: The art of sex: IS this a learned skill, something that i can only learn on my own or are you just born with it?????

My cousin was in a situation like this...except he was marrying because he was in love with being in love.....he wouldn't listen to anyone who didn't agree with him.....instead he would just get angry.....in the end he wised up and is now dating for the sake of fun first and life time commitment last...

I really hope your sister wises up because a marriage like that can only end badly...or even worse.... not at all. By the way if you really don't want her to do this, then do talk to her.....try to get her to see it from your point of veiw.

By the way.... Is love all a marriage really needs???? Is Love really worth marrying over??? At what point does one fall out love???

I know l have lots of questions...."But if I don't ask how will I learn" ~I can't remember where I heard that from.

 

____________________
"It is a fool's prerogative to utter truths that no one else will speak." ~ The Sandman, Dream Country

 

Member




Posts: 199
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 10/3/2004 at 02:33 PM
Nope, a marriage only requires two signatures and sometimes a notary stamp. Really good relationships, on the other hand, require honesty (this includes being honest with yourself) and communication and sharing (not just giving, not just taking). Sex just requires location and time, and sometimes not very much of the latter ;-)
The art of sex is like any other art, it is best if you abandon yourself to it. Most people have a fear of letting go and cannot fully become one with the moment.

 

Fanatic




Posts: 511
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 10/3/2004 at 03:00 PM
And to add to what Rogue said... Love is something that just happens. The more time you spend with someone who's honest, communicative and sharing, the more likely it is to happen with that person. And love is not necessarily a good reason to get married, either.

 

____________________

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 1810
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 10/3/2004 at 03:04 PM
people talk about the sanctity of marriage... there is nothing holy about it these days... people break the agreements that they put themselves willingly into... the law makers are screaming about the sanctity of marriage... and they are mostly cheating scum... and when you bring law into it... by its very nature it loses all holyness it might have once possessed... I say fuck the laws and get handfasted, religiously wed or shack up but tell em to fuck off...

 

____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.

Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 1570
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 10/3/2004 at 03:27 PM
LC: Mercinary? People actually get married so they can be soldiers for hire together?

I think that should be listed among some of the better typos here *dies*

 

____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 759
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 10/3/2004 at 04:02 PM
? mercenary mean "in it for the money, not out of loyalty or duty".

 

____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 656
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 10/3/2004 at 04:57 PM
Bleh, I hate it when people get married just for that. Sure money should be a factor for the sake of financial stability, but gold digging? Not a nice reason to get married...though seen it a several times.


 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 1570
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 10/3/2004 at 04:59 PM
Sorry I grew up watching the A team

I still think that it should apply, marriage for the sake of being soldiers for hire together, that is. I know that's what me and michael had in plan, anyhow

 

____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.

 

Fanatic




Posts: 511
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 10/3/2004 at 06:23 PM
My baby sister has always been a grand champion gold digger, though. The guy she'd married before was going to college to be a chemical engineer, and she thought she'd be set for life with him. She's firmly of the opinion that "It's just as easy to love a rich man as it is to love a poor one". Or at least marry one...

 

____________________

 

Fanatic




Posts: 459
Registered: 15/2/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 10/3/2004 at 06:36 PM
No disrespect...but that's just desgusting.....you might wanna warn the rich guy.

 

____________________
"It is a fool's prerogative to utter truths that no one else will speak." ~
The Sandman, Dream Country

 

Fanatic




Posts: 459
Registered: 15/2/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 10/3/2004 at 08:30 PM
MJ & ROGUE: I don't really beleive in love too much anyway...and as long as you have enough time to get (off) what you want then time will almost never be a factor....Ask for "the art of sex"....you're "wisdom" is greatly appreciated.

 

____________________
"It is a fool's prerogative to utter truths that no one else will speak."
~

The Sandman, Dream Country

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 618
Registered: 27/9/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 10/3/2004 at 08:35 PM
My husband and I lived together first, then we got handfasted for the love/commitment part. The reasons we went ahead and did the legal wedding at the courthouse was to get me on his health insurance, inheritance issues, tax filing status, and all the other "legal" things that go along with it. As it turns out as for rider permits for riding in his truck, his company only allows legal relatives such as a wife, and would not have allowed an unmarried mate to ride along, so that turned out as a benefit in that respect. However, that "legal" certificate had nothing to do with our commitment to each other and I don't think it serves as anything other than a financial relationship with someone. The handfasting was the personal commitment part. In other words, a government "sanctioned" marriage has nothing to do with holiness, or love, or family values, or anything even remotely related to that. I can't understand why the government saying a man/woman marriage even means anything in the way of those things, so since it's nothing more than a legal/financial contract, they should get over definining the sexes of the people involved basically.

 

____________________
"When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I've never tried before." ~Mae West


 

Fanatic




Posts: 287
Registered: 31/10/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 10/3/2004 at 11:28 PM
I call it mercenary in the sense that it profitted us both, at that time. I was living in a hostile situation, and my ex was being abused by his family, so we decided to just go ahead and do it. We cared for each other, but neither one od us was really in love with the other. We had both been dumped at about the same time, so it was a serious rebound thing that had painful consequences for us both. And, unfortunately, as things often do, they got really bad for a while. He started showing sides I'd never seen before, including a truly cruel sense of humor. He degraded me and used me for all I was worth. He lived off of me, playing video games and messing around on the computer, for quite a while until my mother finally convinced him to get a job.

Me? Marry for money? Oh, heck no. This was a guy from a middle-class family who cannot be moved by anything short of an act of God to rise above what he already has. He has no drive, no abition, and it takes weeks just to get him to do a sink full of dishes. He has no independent living skills, short of driving. If I didn't feel so sorry for him, well, I'd probably be a lot meaner than I am.

Anyway, now I must clean out the car that has been sitting for six months while i waited for him to keep his promise to fix it. I'm having it towed to a real mechanic who will see if it's worth fixing. It probably isn't now.

Think long and hard before marrying...first time, second time, any time...please...




[Edited on 11/3/2004 by LadyCygnet]

 

____________________
"To Live is to Annoy." -- Rev. Lambert Reilly, Archabbot, St. Meinrad Abbey

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 1810
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 11/3/2004 at 01:15 AM
well... gotta say this... just make sure he is the one...

 

____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.



Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 759
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 11/3/2004 at 08:52 AM
i am seeing three major views on marriage here; that marraige is an emotional thing, that marriage is a legal thing, and that marriage is a bad thing.

Just to clarify a few things for those of you that arent into history...
marriage laws are about property, rights to property (tangible and intangable), and the distribution of that property at death. there are some civil laws that deal with sex in a marriage (that he owes it to her and she can sue if he doesnt get it up mostly) and few that deal with kids born while that marriage was contracted.

But in general the marriage laws are ignored. Prenuptual agreements, dna tests, cheating (getting it up for someone else but not for the wife), seperate monies, IRAs, heath care, etc. so the laws that we have are not adequate to deal with the property contracts into which people enter today.

So far a few people have said that they are together because of love, but married due to the legal or social benefits that they get. So far no one here has said that they married for love and that marriage is what made that love work. a few teenagers have said that they think marriage and love are somehow intertwined, but that is to be expected since they are kids, watch too much TV, and have never had a serious relationship (having to see that same person EVERY morning before they have brushed thier teeth). they have been raised on fairy tales and are startled to learn that thier mothers thought long and hard about who to marry and that it had little to do with "love" and more to do with life.

There is no ignoring the legalities of marriage since you have to sign a contract, swear in front of a group of witnesses, and file supporting evidence every year. yes you do. what do you think that bit of paper that you sigh after the "white church wedding" is all about? its a contract saying that s/he owns 50% of your property, credit, name, future property (tangible and intangible), pension, and any children you might have after that day. the divorce courts are always full and new laws are being passed almost daily to try to cope with the variety of pratical marriage practices that people decide to end or change.

as to marriage being a bad thing, well that is a valid point of view since so many people are pushed into this contract/incorporation before they have any idea what that contract means in the real world. some have a grasp of what it means to thier religion, but that is something waaaay different that what it means in the world's courts. The business (and yes it is a business with accounting, forward planning, office managerment, production etc) is not what they expected and for the most part they arent warned that marriage is work not play. most people (we are talking first marriage here) dont do thier due dilligence before accepting or making a bid for controlling shares or before contracting a merger. both sides are let down when they see the real accounts (again tangible and intangible) of the other side.

Its sad to me that so many people confuse business with pleasure, sex for fun with sex for money, and companionship with someone else in the house.

personally i think it is sick that churches are involved in contracting legal, politically legal documents and that they advise people to enter into a government contract without telling them what that contract is. I think is is sick and wrong that there is no seperation of church and state on this one. after all the church has only been apart of western marriages for some 400-500 years. before that it was a legal/social thing. the church just wanted more money (cuz you have to pay the priest). meanies.

 

____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires />
away.

 
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