With all the new talk of marriage and the reasons for it, I just thought
I'd share a bit of shmeng that I just heard of and is absolutely disgusting
me to no end.
My sister has been divorced for a few years now. She had been with that guy
since she was 16, and he was very abusive toward her. She's told me
repeatedly that she has no interest in ever getting married again. During
the past few years, she has been dating a guy she claimed to be in love
with. He recently broke it off with her to get married, to his ex
girlfriend. She told me that she is still in love with him, the same night
she was telling me about a new guy she was dating. This guy will soon be
inheriting his own business, he's very nice to her, gives her presents,
treats her very well, loves her kids, the kids love him, and everything
seems happy and good. He's stayed overnight with her, but only on the
weekends, when her kids are with their dad.
I just heard that they are going to be getting married, in September. This
has caused me all kinds of icky feelings, because my sister is rushing into
it too fast, she hasn't even tried living with him first, he hasn't tried
living with her and the kids, and she has admited to me that she doesn't
love him. In fact, she's still in love with the guy before, who married
someone else. The only reason I can think of for her to want to marry so
quickly is for financial stability. She has no idea what this guy's going
to be like when it's no longer a dating relationship. She hasn't known him
long enough to really know what kind of person he really is. And she
doesn't love him.
None of these seem to me to be a good reason to get married. She's making a
very, very big mistake. I don't know what to tell her. I'm going to see her
this weekend, and I know I'm going to blow up, lecture her, yell at her,
and tell her she doesn't have any sense. They should live together for at
least six months to see if they can handle day to day life with each other.
She should let go of the other guy and at least see if she can fall in love
with this new one. She should not be marrying someone just for financial
stability. There's all kinds of bad about this.
Anyone got any ideas on what would make this a good thing? What are good
reasons for my little sister to be marrying a guy she doesn't love so
quickly? Because I can't think of any, and I'll be damned if I'm going to
congratulate her for further ruining her life.
What are good reasons to get married at all? Besides making it easier for
health insurance and tax reasons?
____________________
Rogue
Member
Posts: 199 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 10/3/2004 at 09:47 AM
Um, because she's shallow and the best she can hope for is a shallow
relationship that pays well? The funny thing about this is it underscores
what we have been saying about the gay and poly marriage issue, that "real"
marriages are not any more stable than any other type, and many gay or poly
relationships are more stable than regular marriages because of the degree
of communication that is typically involved.
She's still mentally in high school anyway, as a result of her first
husband, so maybe getting a cool senior's class ring is the best thing for
her. Well, heh, the best thing aside from letting me tag her, but that's
another story.
callei
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 10/3/2004 at 10:10 AM
there is no other reason to marry except to ease the paperwork for transfer
of property when you die, to not testify against your partner in crime, and
to make sure you know the person that has life or death control over you
when you are in hosptial and unconcious.
you get taxed more to be married than to be unmarried. you pay more
(without kids for sure and in many plans even with kids) for health care as
married than single. there are in fact very few benefits to the marriage
itself.
Now love is different, but there are no legal benefits to being in love so
that doesnt count for a reason one way or the other.
If her only job skills include being good on her back and looking good at
the company picnic, then she should marry him. the kids (poor tykes) will
keep a roof over thier heads, have food, and so forth. its legal for him to
give her money for sex if they are married, while it is illegal for him to
give her money for sex if they are not.
I think is one of the things that leads to sooo many man/woman marriages;
the fact that we have a concept of prostitution and that it is "bad". so
the people that are really good at sex have to marry people to get paid for
thier art or go to jail.
____________________ Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away.
Rogue
Member
Posts: 199 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 10/3/2004 at 10:22 AM
Paid for sex? If I thought for a second that I could get paid for sex, I'd
quit my job a second later. I have trouble giving it away. Women have all
the fun.
LadyCygnet
Fanatic
Posts: 287 Registered: 31/10/2003 Status: Offline
posted on 10/3/2004 at 12:06 PM
One should never get married for mercenary reasons if one can help it,
especially if one isn't in love with the potential spouse. I got married
for purely mercenary reasons to a guy who should have just been a friend,
nothing more. I was in love with someone else who had rejected me, and I
guess I just liked the idea of being worshipped, even if he wasn't what I
wanted.
Now I'm in the midst of an amicable divorce, and I've finally got him to a
point where he almost always respect my boundaries (something he never did
when we were married). I am very grateful that divorce is legal, though I
wish lawyers weren't so expensive.
It'll be quite a while before I even consider getting married again. It's
a too much of a headache, though it would be nice to have a partner for
babies and stuff.
Good luck to her, MJ...she's going to need it.
____________________ "To Live is to Annoy." -- Rev. Lambert Reilly, Archabbot, St. Meinrad Abbey
Zero
Fanatic
Posts: 459 Registered: 15/2/2004 Status: Offline
posted on 10/3/2004 at 01:23 PM
Callei: The art of sex: IS this a learned skill, something that i can
only learn on my own or are you just born with it?????
My cousin was in a situation like this...except he was marrying because
he was in love with being in love.....he wouldn't listen to anyone who
didn't agree with him.....instead he would just get angry.....in the end he
wised up and is now dating for the sake of fun first and life time
commitment last...
I really hope your sister wises up because a marriage like that can only
end badly...or even worse.... not at all. By the way if you really don't
want her to do this, then do talk to her.....try to get her to see it from
your point of veiw.
By the way.... Is love all a marriage really needs???? Is Love really
worth marrying over??? At what point does one fall out love???
I know l have lots of questions...."But if I don't ask how will I learn" ~I
can't remember where I heard that from.
____________________ "It is a fool's prerogative to utter truths that no one else will speak." ~
The Sandman, Dream Country
Rogue
Member
Posts: 199 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 10/3/2004 at 02:33 PM
Nope, a marriage only requires two signatures and sometimes a notary stamp.
Really good relationships, on the other hand, require honesty (this
includes being honest with yourself) and communication and sharing (not
just giving, not just taking). Sex just requires location and time, and
sometimes not very much of the latter ;-)
The art of sex is like any other art, it is best if you abandon yourself to
it. Most people have a fear of letting go and cannot fully become one with
the moment.
Meranda_Jade
Fanatic
Posts: 511 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 10/3/2004 at 03:00 PM
And to add to what Rogue said... Love is something that just happens. The
more time you spend with someone who's honest, communicative and sharing,
the more likely it is to happen with that person. And love is not
necessarily a good reason to get married, either.
people talk about the sanctity of marriage... there is nothing holy about
it these days... people break the agreements that they put themselves
willingly into... the law makers are screaming about the sanctity of
marriage... and they are mostly cheating scum... and when you bring law
into it... by its very nature it loses all holyness it might have once
possessed... I say fuck the laws and get handfasted, religiously wed or
shack up but tell em to fuck off...
____________________ The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
LC: Mercinary? People actually get married so they can be soldiers for
hire together?
I think that should be listed among some of the better typos here *dies*
____________________ Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
callei
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 10/3/2004 at 04:02 PM
? mercenary mean "in it for the money, not out of loyalty or duty".
____________________ Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away.
Anya
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 10/3/2004 at 04:57 PM
Bleh, I hate it when people get married just for that. Sure money should
be a factor for the sake of financial stability, but gold digging? Not a
nice reason to get married...though seen it a several times.
I still think that it should apply, marriage for the sake of being soldiers
for hire together, that is. I know that's what me and michael had in plan,
anyhow
____________________ Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
Meranda_Jade
Fanatic
Posts: 511 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 10/3/2004 at 06:23 PM
My baby sister has always been a grand champion gold digger, though. The
guy she'd married before was going to college to be a chemical engineer,
and she thought she'd be set for life with him. She's firmly of the opinion
that "It's just as easy to love a rich man as it is to love a poor one".
Or at least marry one...
____________________
Zero
Fanatic
Posts: 459 Registered: 15/2/2004 Status: Offline
posted on 10/3/2004 at 06:36 PM
No disrespect...but that's just desgusting.....you might wanna warn the
rich guy.
____________________ "It is a fool's prerogative to utter truths that no one else will speak."
~
The Sandman, Dream Country
Zero
Fanatic
Posts: 459 Registered: 15/2/2004 Status: Offline
posted on 10/3/2004 at 08:30 PM
MJ & ROGUE: I don't really beleive in love too much anyway...and as
long as you have enough time to get (off) what you want then time will
almost never be a factor....Ask for "the art of sex"....you're "wisdom" is
greatly appreciated.
____________________ "It is a fool's prerogative to utter truths that no one else will
speak."
~
The Sandman, Dream Country
Starlight
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 618 Registered: 27/9/2002 Status: Offline
posted on 10/3/2004 at 08:35 PM
My husband and I lived together first, then we got handfasted for the
love/commitment part. The reasons we went ahead and did the legal wedding
at the courthouse was to get me on his health insurance, inheritance
issues, tax filing status, and all the other "legal" things that go along
with it. As it turns out as for rider permits for riding in his truck, his
company only allows legal relatives such as a wife, and would not have
allowed an unmarried mate to ride along, so that turned out as a benefit in
that respect. However, that "legal" certificate had nothing to do with our
commitment to each other and I don't think it serves as anything other than
a financial relationship with someone. The handfasting was the personal
commitment part. In other words, a government "sanctioned" marriage has
nothing to do with holiness, or love, or family values, or anything even
remotely related to that. I can't understand why the government saying a
man/woman marriage even means anything in the way of those things, so since
it's nothing more than a legal/financial contract, they should get over
definining the sexes of the people involved basically.
____________________ "When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I've never
tried before." ~Mae West
LadyCygnet
Fanatic
Posts: 287 Registered: 31/10/2003 Status: Offline
posted on 10/3/2004 at 11:28 PM
I call it mercenary in the sense that it profitted us both, at that time.
I was living in a hostile situation, and my ex was being abused by his
family, so we decided to just go ahead and do it. We cared for each other,
but neither one od us was really in love with the other. We had both been
dumped at about the same time, so it was a serious rebound thing that had
painful consequences for us both. And, unfortunately, as things often do,
they got really bad for a while. He started showing sides I'd never seen
before, including a truly cruel sense of humor. He degraded me and used me
for all I was worth. He lived off of me, playing video games and messing
around on the computer, for quite a while until my mother finally convinced
him to get a job.
Me? Marry for money? Oh, heck no. This was a guy from a middle-class
family who cannot be moved by anything short of an act of God to rise above
what he already has. He has no drive, no abition, and it takes weeks just
to get him to do a sink full of dishes. He has no independent living
skills, short of driving. If I didn't feel so sorry for him, well, I'd
probably be a lot meaner than I am.
Anyway, now I must clean out the car that has been sitting for six months
while i waited for him to keep his promise to fix it. I'm having it towed
to a real mechanic who will see if it's worth fixing. It probably isn't
now.
Think long and hard before marrying...first time, second time, any
time...please...
[Edited on 11/3/2004 by LadyCygnet]
____________________ "To Live is to Annoy." -- Rev. Lambert Reilly, Archabbot, St. Meinrad Abbey
well... gotta say this... just make sure he is the one...
____________________ The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
callei
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 11/3/2004 at 08:52 AM
i am seeing three major views on marriage here; that marraige is an
emotional thing, that marriage is a legal thing, and that marriage is a bad
thing.
Just to clarify a few things for those of you that arent into history...
marriage laws are about property, rights to property (tangible and
intangable), and the distribution of that property at death. there are some
civil laws that deal with sex in a marriage (that he owes it to her and she
can sue if he doesnt get it up mostly) and few that deal with kids born
while that marriage was contracted.
But in general the marriage laws are ignored. Prenuptual agreements, dna
tests, cheating (getting it up for someone else but not for the wife),
seperate monies, IRAs, heath care, etc. so the laws that we have are not
adequate to deal with the property contracts into which people enter today.
So far a few people have said that they are together because of love, but
married due to the legal or social benefits that they get. So far no one
here has said that they married for love and that marriage is what made
that love work. a few teenagers have said that they think marriage and love
are somehow intertwined, but that is to be expected since they are kids,
watch too much TV, and have never had a serious relationship (having to see
that same person EVERY morning before they have brushed thier teeth). they
have been raised on fairy tales and are startled to learn that thier
mothers thought long and hard about who to marry and that it had little to
do with "love" and more to do with life.
There is no ignoring the legalities of marriage since you have to sign a
contract, swear in front of a group of witnesses, and file supporting
evidence every year. yes you do. what do you think that bit of paper that
you sigh after the "white church wedding" is all about? its a contract
saying that s/he owns 50% of your property, credit, name, future property
(tangible and intangible), pension, and any children you might have after
that day. the divorce courts are always full and new laws are being passed
almost daily to try to cope with the variety of pratical marriage practices
that people decide to end or change.
as to marriage being a bad thing, well that is a valid point of view since
so many people are pushed into this contract/incorporation before they have
any idea what that contract means in the real world. some have a grasp of
what it means to thier religion, but that is something waaaay different
that what it means in the world's courts. The business (and yes it is a
business with accounting, forward planning, office managerment, production
etc) is not what they expected and for the most part they arent warned that
marriage is work not play. most people (we are talking first marriage here)
dont do thier due dilligence before accepting or making a bid for
controlling shares or before contracting a merger. both sides are let down
when they see the real accounts (again tangible and intangible) of the
other side.
Its sad to me that so many people confuse business with pleasure, sex for
fun with sex for money, and companionship with someone else in the house.
personally i think it is sick that churches are involved in contracting
legal, politically legal documents and that they advise people to enter
into a government contract without telling them what that contract is. I
think is is sick and wrong that there is no seperation of church and state
on this one. after all the church has only been apart of western marriages
for some 400-500 years. before that it was a legal/social thing. the church
just wanted more money (cuz you have to pay the priest). meanies.
____________________ Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and
vampires
/>
away.