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Author: Subject: Gay High


Posts: 470
Registered: 23/9/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 11/8/2003 at 10:16 PM
Being a teenager is difficult enough. Being a gay teenager is definitely harder on a person both psychologically and socially, but a gay high school? No, I’m sorry I’m opposed.

First of all it’s going to be harder on the kids who are gay who don’t have the opportunity to go to this school. Now the bullies can feel a little justified about wanting these strange queers out of there school. “Why don’t you get on a bus and go to Faggot High”, and oddly, New York would be supporting them.

By segregating out students in high school as being different enough to merit their own private institution you are seriously setting back the equal rights movement. Separate but equal does not work. Putting students together based on their sexuality will be about as effective as grouping them together based on color. It’s segregation, plain and simple.

Also, what will be the criteria for entrance? Will students who are suspected of being gay be forced to go? Will this school only be for openly gay students? Another question, many teenagers are already horribly confused about their own sexuality, does it help these students, some who will be as young as fourteen to forced them to decide if they are gay or not? Realistically it could only deepen the problem of acceptance that many of these students already have.

Also, will the parents of the students be informed if their child has asked to go to a gay high school? Are the teachers or the administration just going to pick and choose who goes with or without consent?

Then, you have other issues, are the teachers going to be gay, is the staff going to be gay? Is there a gay way to teach math and science that will be more effective then the straight way, or less effective?

One of the goals for this school is that it will teach students respect for diversity. I think one of the many things a gay student has going for them is an ability to appreciate difference. Wouldn’t respect and diversity classes be better for the straight bullying thug?

I think this is probably one of the worst idea’s I’ve heard of in a long time. I hope it doesn’t make it.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/gayschool030728 .html


It's like kegel exercises for your throat.~Monolycus

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Posts: 376
Registered: 31/12/1969
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  posted on 12/8/2003 at 04:33 AM
Oh hell, that's effing laughable. That's may be designed to stop the kids from havign to worry about being beaten up for being gay, but what it'll probably do is send them a message saying "You're different, and that's bad! You have to go to a *special* school for people like you." Ugh. And what about the straight kids in the "normal" highschools? How are they going to react to it? To gay kids who're still in their highschool? "You shouldn't be here! There's a special place for you, cause you're different and we don't want you here."

Oh yeah, what a good idea guys. *congratulations*


Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life.



Posts: 62
Registered: 5/10/2002
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  posted on 12/8/2003 at 08:40 AM
This reminds me slightly of the schools reserved for special kids. The argument of some is that they should be allowed to mix, day-to-day, with other children who are perfectly able rather than be segregated in a separate school.
Except, gay kids donít HAVE special needs. There is no reason whatsoever that a school need be made for them. Are teachers that ineffective at dealing with bullying etc that they found it easier just to remove all the gay people and dump them elsewhere?Ö did they assume that, because they were all the gay, the children would all get on better?
If a kid gets bullied because theyíre a goth or whatever, it would be totally ridiculous for them to move to a school just for goth children so other people arenít mean to them, rather than socialising with all sorts of people and dealing with their problems and the idiots that make fun of them like other people that are slightly different to the Ďaverage childí do.
Since gay people have no different educational needs to a straight person, all a gay school would essentially be is a social club for gays. Why that needs to be mixed in with education, I donít know. I just think its totally unnecessary and would only make any existing divide between gay and straight people even wider.


Let viagra bring the magic back.



Posts: 376
Registered: 31/12/1969
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  posted on 12/8/2003 at 08:59 AM
"Let's put them all in a little bubble so they don't have to deal with the real world." Until they get out of school that is, cause there'll still be arseholes around then.


Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life.



Posts: 289
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 12/8/2003 at 09:38 AM
"Are teachers that ineffective at dealing with bullying etc that they found it easier just to remove all the gay people and dump them elsewhere?Ö " -Erishkigal

Yes, they are. Plain and simple it is safer to segregate gay children then let them die.

"Is there a gay way to teach math and science that will be more effective then the straight way, or less effective?" -Domkitten

What are you an idiot? They are not creating this school to somehow improve the methods of teaching. They are creating this school to increase the chances that these students will not die either by being either beaten, gang-raped (male or female) to death, or by their own hand.

The school has been created with the same intention as special-ed classes/schools, gifted and talented schools, private schools, boarding schools, and public schools. To provide an education. In the case of a gay campus, does that mean these kids are all going to be pasty faced wasps? No, especially not in a major metropolitan area, you know, like New York? The students will be exposed to cultural diversity just like any student, they just won't be beaten into a pulp by said diversity. They won't die of ruptured internal organs because the local jocks were making their point with a broomstick and no lube, and they won't be forced to face the day in day fucking out sniggering behind their backs that makes the strongest ego crumble sometimes.


It is only through the lack of sex that humanity derives the need for an all encompassing blind love. And in that moment of extreme horniness with no relief in sight, in that moment can be found the birth of religion.



Posts: 293
Registered: 31/12/1969
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  posted on 12/8/2003 at 09:39 AM
Though the idea counts twards having a respect for gay people, I dont think it helps them any at all. yah sure, they would be Put in a enviroment where they would probly feel less threatened. (because lets face it, in high school if your even the slightest bit diffrent you got picked on and made fun of) But i dont think it teaches them anything about standing up for yourself. Then, when they set forth on reality time zones, then they get a harsh harsh awakening. and Also too, i would also like to state that when you are a teenager, you dont always know right away if you are gay or not (hell i questioned myself many a time) and theres always the factor, that yah, you could say, Hey! im gay! put me in a gay high school! and then not end up being in the end. thus going to a special school under false pretences. When your 16, im sorry, but you dont have a fucking clue who the hell you are.. what kind of adult would think to have a school made up for students, a high school, people who are ever changing and highly influenced by EVERYTHING, to make them set in ther mind frame that YES. IM GAY. I HAVE TO STICK TO THIS CONCEPT TO ATTEND THIS SCHOOL. MUST OBEY. it just doesnt make sense to me.

and yes i do know that there are indeed teenagers who -do- in fact come to terms with themselves and -KNOW- they are lesbian and homosexual.. but im just thinking of all the others that dont know that for sure...

[Edited on 8/12/2003 by VampCourt]


"Thou shalt not be afraid of the dark, nor of graveyards nor ghosts nor the devil, for thou art scarey and mean." -The Goth commandments


Extreme Fanatic

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  posted on 12/8/2003 at 01:25 PM
Hell...if I had a problem with gay folks and whatnot, I'd be a hell of a lot more blatant about it...

Thats just...well...amazingly silly. A recipe for disaster on one hand, and an excercise in oblvious retardation on another...blech.

Gay kids should just go to normal school like everyone else anyhow. They deserve to get picked on for everything they do and think, just like everyone else.


In the valley of the Goats, the Goat Fucker is King



Posts: 499
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 12/8/2003 at 05:20 PM
Surely single sex school were an attempt to segregate pupils on th basis of their sexuality before homosexuality concieved.


Light is changing to shadow, and casting a shroud over all we have known.


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  posted on 12/8/2003 at 06:19 PM
I don't think it's a good idea at all. A gay highschooler has as much chance of being beaten up, killed, harassed, or be trodden to the point of suicide as any other child that doesn't feel like they fit in or flat out doesn't fit in. The skinny dorky kid, the overweight or unatractive girl, the really slow child, the unusually gifted child, the wallflower or the freak.
One reason I don't think it's a good idea are, as dom stated, the criteria? Most teenagers are unsure of their sexuality (even if they dont' admit it) until about half way through highhschool. Does the parent or the child decide their identity or where they go to school? What if the child decides the identity they've chosen or have had chosen for them doesn't "work" anymore? And as also said, it opens a whole 'nother can of worms. Hey fag go to the fag school, we have places for people like you, blah blah blah. Agreed, separate but equal does not work.
I also don't believe that same sex schools are great, nor "special" schools for the handicapped, unless their disability or special needs makes going to regular school extremely difficult or impossible. In my highschool we had several mental/physically handicapped students who yes, had classes designed for them, but also had other classes on campus, ate at the same lunches, attended the same functions. Oddly enough, in my bigoted, backwater school they had peers, and friends, and those who wouldn't ordinarly be caught DEAD with a "retard" (as they'd so eloquently put it sometimes) were OFTEN seen helping them and befriending them.
The plight of a gay teen in higschool isn't falling on deaf ears, anymore than the plight of racial issues hasn't, or developmentally disabled hasn't. One very important part of highschool is learning socialization with different types of people. There is pressure to fit in, bullies, ignorant people, assholes, fuckwads, yes, but you'll find that EVERYWHERE...clubs, work, family.
Opening an "all gay" highschool to me seems like a dangerous thing. It's like drawing a line in the sand, or when you'd draw a line down the middle of the bedroom and tell your stinky little brother to stay on his side. It's not dealing or adressing a serious issue, it's making it an even bigger, larger, scarier issue of separatism.
If they want to stop the violence in schools no matter WHAT the issue is (gay/racial/sexual/social) then they need to better equip teachers to not only deal, but correct the bullying and maybe even stop it in it's tracks. By taking away the "issue" you're empowering the bully and cementing his messed up mindset. It's letting the bully win by letting him have his way.
I knew two kids in my school that committed suicide. Both were extremely popular. Both had a lot of friends. Both had good families. Both were on sports teams. Neither were picked on, nor had behavioral problems.
Both felt so helplessly and completely alone in their life that they relinquished it. One by gun, one by train. I also knew about five gay kids. They all got picked on, harassed, beat up. So did the skinny kids I knew, the fat girls, the social rejects. They survived. I know that the stats for gay teen suicide are high, but also take into effect that the homosexual population is bout 10% (or so I've heard) in the US, so naturally with a smaller group of people with a set rate of suicide, the % is going to be higher.
The problem is cultural. The solution is education of sexuality and compassion at an early age from both parents, and school. It's a long shot, but I'd take education over separation any day. The easiest route isn't always the best.


Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.



Posts: 598
Registered: 24/8/2002
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  posted on 12/8/2003 at 06:43 PM
It's nice that they are trying to do something about bullying and all, but this is another issue of singling out victims. I would rather see something done about the bullies. Well this is another one of those good intentions we have heard so much about, it is exceedingly problematic, for all the above stated reasons. It's just too iffy to be executed cleanly.


Okay, dazzle me.



Posts: 522
Registered: 6/7/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 12/8/2003 at 07:34 PM
I've heard of this before, segregated schools for those who choose to lead a different "sexual" lifestyle.

I'm particularly torn about this. It will be helpful to those who want to actually gain a education without fear of the "high-school witch hunt" as I prefer to put it but it's like putting a band-aid on a broken leg. We're not attacking the cause of this and I doubt we ever will.

Having a gay rights activist groups/parades and anti-gay defamation commercials airing every so often on tv won't do much to fix the problem. The parents have to start with their children when they're young, they have to teach them acceptance of others. That's the basic premise of which unity will be achieved through...

unfortunately, I don't see this happening soon. Weíre stuck in a loop here. Many have grown and will teach hatred to their kids unknowingly. What can we do to make the lives of those who have a different sexual preference easier and safer?

I donít think isolation from the general public is the answer. Turning a blind eye to someone whoís being fucking tortured by idiot boneheads isnít the answer either.

Also...this bugs me. If someone is gay or bisexual, why the hell should it be the PUBLICís business? Just a offbeat though.

[Edited on 8/13/2003 by AloneSoul]


but at least you know, just how much pain there is in living


Posts: 580
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 13/8/2003 at 12:12 AM
I'm also going to say that this is an incredibly stupid idea. It's unnecessarily divisive, perpetuates intolerance ("stay with your own kind!") and validates the homophobic notion that gays are somehow so different that they should not be permitted to be around others (for their own protection, of course). The doctrine of separate-but-equal was asinine when it was based upon race, it is asinine to have all male or female universities, and it is asinine to imagine that segregating people (especially teenagers!) based upon their sexual preference is going to promote anything but disharmony later in life.

Nobody is going to learn to get over their irrational prejudices if they never come into contact with anyone who embodies anything different than themselves. It is a disservice to homo- and heterosexuals to think that one needs to be "protected" from the other. I'm sure that those who support the prohibition against being openly gay in the military think they are "protecting" people as well. Well, it looks like we will have another generation of culturally-stunted xenophobics to deal with.




Posts: 470
Registered: 23/9/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 13/8/2003 at 02:43 AM
Shade: Having dealt with numerous small-minded idiots who disagreed with my opinions I have no problem being a called, and or asked if I’m an idiot. Thanks to my diverse public education I’ve learned to deal with this, and many of the other nasty name calling aspects of life in the real world.

As a professional educator it is a valid question. Are we to assume that because students identify themselves as being gay that they will automatically be at a certain educational level? I’m quite sure that assuming that all l/g/t/bi teens have the same skill and ability set is at least as much a disservice as placing them in this school. Students have different educational needs and need to be educated according to those needs, not to a difference in sexuality.

Also, you brought up some pretty horrific imagery to support your argument, however it is also ineffective, and generally only tricky. One cannot disagree that it is better for teens to go to school where they do not have to face being beaten to death, gang raped, or forced to commit suicide. The last time I checked however those sorts of things were not limited to gay teens. Columbine, for example, resulted in the death of 15 people chosen at random.

School violence and the people who perpetuate it don’t care if there is an basis for a claim that they use to hurt someone. It’s not necessary to justify their actions. They are justified simply by their feeling of superiority and their will to inflict it on whomever they see as being weaker, or lesser. Students need not be gay to experience that. Students can be Goth, underweight, overweight, quiet, shy, Black, Asian, Latino, blonde, girly, boyish or named Ed, and be just as much a target for that kind of abuse. Are we to make schools equally for all those students as well, to protect them from the bullies?

Gay students are not the only students that become suicidal from the pressures of bullies. Bullies are equal opportunity abusers. They don’t care about discrimination in the long term, so why should we help them along by making justifications for them.

One could argue that we should make schools for the bullies, but we already have those. They are called Juvenile Detention Centers and I’m pretty sure they are about as effective helping those teens adjust, as a gay school will be.

And, the only case that comes to mind that fits exactly the scene you described was not that of a gay teen. The man who was violently beaten and sodomized was named Abner Louima, and his attacker was not a teen bully, but a police officer, one of those who are supposed to serve and protect.

And finally, you may want to throw the name of Brandon Tina into this argument, but having been in a gay school would not have saved Brandon’s life. Having had an educated police force that recognized his needs, or a society that was willing to accept social variations would have been more effective than publicly declaring she was different, and therefore, somehow needed to be isolated.

No, I say let the bullies work on their own time. If we really want to create change we cannot feed into the systems beliefs that seperate but equal is better. That is a very dangerous route to take for equal, and safe treatment.


It's like kegel exercises for your throat.~Monolycus



Posts: 289
Registered: 31/12/1969
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  posted on 13/8/2003 at 07:09 AM
OK, *takes deep breath* the examples I brought up were intentionally graphic to drive home the nature of the extremes of what is happening, and on average these examples do not make more than a blip on the local news. It is still frowned on in most cases to report hate crimes against those who are not straight. In terms of Brandon Tina, my personal take on things is that it would have done her a lot of good to be in Harvie Milk (that the name of the school in question) however I am saying that because that would also imply her not having been in a small town which I still hold to be the leading cause of death among people who just-don't-fit-in(TM).

As far as calling you an idiot Dk, that was my impression wen I read the quote when it was made by New York Conservative Party Chairman Mike Long, I was responding directly to your echoing his words.

In terms of the school itself, it's not incredibly hard in this era of digitized information to answer most of the questions that have been asked in this forum. First go to news.google.com and type in {"New York" gay school"} without the braces of course, and then read a few of the articles until it mentions the name of the intended school (Harvie Milk) and then do another quick search at www.google.com so that you find the school itself and the Hetrick-Martin Institute at www.HMI.org. OK, now that you have found it, let's address some of the intense issues that have been brought up.

And I am going to get personal here for some reason that will be immediately obvious. First off, I attended a school with a similar enrollment set-up, the basics are sign up, get on the waiting list, start attending. It's like a private school, or any other kind of school that is not the one set up by the state that will take anyone in their sector that is not enrolled in an alternative form of education. Harvie Milk High School does not discriminate based on sexuality, but they are publicizing the fact that they are queer friendly school in order to make it clear that gay bashing will not be tolerated in their school.

In reality, any child who is questioning their sexuality does have special needs, just like any child who is a genius, or an autist, or in any way different from their peers. This includes everyone. Everyone is different in some way, that is why we tend towards clique behavior and smaller social groups within a huge social setting. We find those people with whom we share traits and bond to them in order to have a sense of community. Now in the case of a Lesbian, Gay, Bi-sexual, Transgender, Transvestite or just questioning teenager, these kids need someone who can actually answer their questions realistically, not just the advice of their local religious leader who will (most likely) tell them it's wrong, or; conversely the advice of that slightly older slightly cooler classmate who's words will have an amazing impact, but will not be backed by any experience.

The school in question is not looking for some special "gay" way to teach, now is it claiming there is "gay math" whatever the hell that is. ANd as for the assertion that gay kids shouldn't be treated differently? Again, why not? Or to be more specific, what is so wrong with the difference being positive and welcoming as opposed to bigoted and uninformed? Gay (blanket term for brevity's sake) kids are going to be treated differently no matter what anyone says or does. Why shouldn't they have a learning environment in which they can learn? Why, for 8 hours of the day, shouldn't they be treated as normal with the exception of being in what is esentially a really cheap private school?

No one is being forced to go to Harvie Milk High School, it's a voluntary entrance for anyone of any orientation of high school age. If someone thinks they are gay and goes there and then realizes they are straight, they will not be kicked out, but they will have had the support and the educated counseling to help them find out for themselves.

The implication, by saying that this school is wrong, is that these kids have no right to choose a safe and sane learning environment based on a major aspect of their lives. In saying that, the speaker is denying these children the basic right shared by children of catholic families, rich families, jewish families, Xian families, and a few others as well. You are also denying gay kids the right that hyper-intelligent children, developmentally challenged children, artistically gifted children and the children of diplomats have. That is the right to go to a private school where they are guaranteed an education that is sensitive to their cultural/religious/other background. And you are denying gay kids that right based on their sexual orientation. Is that really the position you want to take?


It is only through the lack of sex that humanity derives the need for an
all encompassing blind love. And in that moment of extreme horniness with
no relief in sight, in that moment can be found the birth of religion. />



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  posted on 13/8/2003 at 09:47 AM
A Gay Highschool is a wonderful thing. I mean, think about it, it is showing that the Civil Rights Movement is finally working.

I mean, Soon we can have the Gays, Blacks, Latinos, or any other minority eating in their own cafeterias, going to their own schools, living in their own dorms. It's everything that the Good Mr. King wanted.

Wait, no it isn't...

Can someone tell me why today's "civil rights" leaders are trying to bring segregation back?


Sometimes I dream about dinosaurs shopping for cargo shorts at the Gap. Does that make me a bad person?


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  posted on 13/8/2003 at 10:11 AM
Ok, Iíve been going back and forth on this issue, and Iím not sure exactly where I stand. (mostly Iím stuck between should this be publicly or privately funded?)

Anyway, I just wanted to go over a few things.

First, I think likening this to all-out segregation isnít exactly accurate. As shade pointed out, this school is OPTIONAL for gay kids, and obviously they do not have to prove they are gay, and in fact straight kids would be able to enroll as well. I was sort of looking at this like an alternative school, and plenty of those exist. Schools for kids who, for whatever reason, need an alternative environment Ė does anyone have a problem with those types of schools? A school for kids who would ordinarily drop out of a ďnormalĒ high school?

We have schools for troubled kids, smart kids, pregnant teens, teen-age mothers. Where I live there are schools targeted toward Native American students. I donít think any of these qualify as that dirty nasty word ďsegregation;Ē I think of it as offering a space for kids who need such a space.



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  posted on 13/8/2003 at 10:12 AM

that was ME!


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  posted on 13/8/2003 at 12:14 PM
Okay, I don't think that it's WRONG to have a gay sensitive school, I simply think that tho the intentions behind it are good, I don't think it's going to fix anything. As an affordable private school, ya sure, knock yourselves out, and if it works then a big huzzah for them for making a difference. My main problem lies in the issue that it's not DEALING with the overall problem, which is bullying and intolerance against anyone, which is, in this case, homosexual teenagers. These kids dealing with intolerance are going to grow into adults that are going to have to deal with intolerance, and that is one of the hard lessons of being a teenager and finding out who you are. It's a life lesson. I learned some hard social lessons in school. Fat girls get teased. Girls that wear too much makeup or wierd clothes get beat up. Girls that hang out with the handicapped, gay, racial minority, or other "different" kids get called fag lovers, nigger lovers, dykes, and get left out of dances, parties, and other "important" things highschoolers do. They get told "I hope you die" and "you're worthless" every day, even by the administration.
I had just as many horrible bullies (as I'm sure some of us have) as anyone else that was "different", and if there was a special place for me to go, I probably would have RUN there, but it wouldn't have fixed my problems, it wouldn't have taught me to be who I am today, someone who knows to not take any shit from anyone, knows where to pick my battles, and knows how to cope.
And I do agree with you, shade, that since there are private schools based on religion, gender, behavior, and special needs, then there should be one available for gay teens. I, however, don't think that ANY of those are good ideas.
It IS like putting a bandaid on a wound when a tourniquet is called for. It may give a feeling of comfort, but eventually you bleed to death.
Instead of creating one school, elective or not, that is compassionate and finally says "no" to bullies (a word they are not accustomed to hearing), why not impliment that in EVERY school, small town, big town, inbetween? It's more time consuming, slow, difficult, and maybe even costly, but what are the payoffs? Kids leaving that school to grow up and perhaps be even SLIGHTLY more compassionate, educated, and understanding adults which is DEFINITELY what this world needs.


Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.


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  posted on 13/8/2003 at 04:43 PM
Wait...what kind of Mascot would a Gay High School have?

Go Ambiguous Unicorns!!

heh heh...


In the valley of the Goats, the Goat Fucker is King


Extreme Fanatic

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  posted on 13/8/2003 at 11:53 PM
good greif *lol* Please, no unicorns, I just couldn't handle that.....Well maybe I could, as long as they're not Lisa Frank unicorns. I hate that girl.


Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.

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