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Abbadon
Fanatic   Posts: 499 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 12/8/2003 at 05:37 PM |
I would like all the members who have been stopped from fully participating
in this site to make their views known here. We still have a voice, albeit
a small one. So we can shout ourselves horse making no difference at all.
But then maybe some of the brighter ones will see thats what it all is
anyway.
'Give every man thine ear, but few thine voice. Take each man's census, but
reserve thy judgement.' ____________________
Light is changing to shadow, and casting a shroud over all we have known.
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Squire-of-Gothos
Fanatic  Posts: 206 Registered: 1/1/2003 Status: Offline
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posted on 20/8/2003 at 10:40 PM |
In my opinion one must look at the situation in two seperate ways, from to
perspective.
1. This site is about equality, equal voice, anyone can say anything
etc.
In such a case, the karma script is a total destruction of what this site
stands for. It is a blatant disregard of peoples voice, and should be
stopped. It's not fair, its mean, and is just a way for powerful moderators
to choice who stays and who goes, and fuck anyone who doesn't like it. Not
cool.....
2. Its Devins site, he made, he rules it, we don't need no stinking freedom
of speech.
Yeah, karma blows, but who friggin cares? Did Devin make Shmeng and
proclaim, "Let their be Shmeng! And Let anybody come here and muss it up!"
No. Not once. As far as I'm concerned (not being a pet or a fanatic, just
an average Joe mind you) Devin can change my name to ChEeSe_Fucker69 and
their aint shit I can do, nor do I have a right to complain. Its his, and
he's said it from the start. And if Devin wants to watch a big fun zoo full
of interesting exotic animals instead of a bunch of muskrats and toads,
then so be it. He wants a modicum of intellectual and interesting people to
populate HIS site, who are you to complain.
I feel gifted just being alowed to post here, its an honor and a
privaledge. Thats not brown nosing, thats the straight shit. I'm able to
get together with other people who aren't total nimrods, and hold
interesting conversations about life, and thats a privaledge most people
don't have. The majority of the world population is not as smart as most of
the members here, and if Karma, and picky moderators are what it takes to
keep it that way, then I couldn't be happier. It's a retreat from the daily
bordome of middle class life, and I love it.
Either way, I can't write for beans, which means I never post articles, so
I'll be labelled a forum lurker. That sucks, but what are you going to do?
I don't know of any place like this, and I can't imagine leaving, so I live
with the pain of Karma, and an ever increasing elitist attitude toward the
memebers on the site. This is the price one pays for Shmeng admission, and
I gladly fork it over. ____________________
“The only thing that can alter the good writer is death.”
“You know that if I were reincarnated, I’d want to come back a buzzard.
Nothing hates him. He is never bothered or in danger, and he can eat
anything.”
Faulkner
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic   Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 20/8/2003 at 11:17 AM |
| It didn't take us that long to figure it out, most of us have just been
fairly polite to avoid an overblown screaming match. ____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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Abbadon
Fanatic Posts: 499 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 20/8/2003 at 09:31 AM |
| My infinite apologies. I had not noticed I was logged out. I claim the last
message. ____________________
Light is changing to shadow, and casting a shroud over all we have known.
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Anonymous
 Posts: 116 Registered: 14/4/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 20/8/2003 at 09:30 AM |
Finally: Shade, someone who understands me!!! Thank you so much! I can't
believe how long it took for you lot to work it out! My best wishes to your
future, I am sure it will prosper in your insightfulness! (P.S. There is no
sarcasm in this message.) (Apart from that bit.)
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Rae
Occasional Poster   Posts: 23 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 19/8/2003 at 10:10 AM |
Yes Please! Thank you for showing your mercy on us by sharing your karma
fairy.  ____________________
Free your mind and your ass will follow
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Devin
Administrator  Posts: 317 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Online
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posted on 19/8/2003 at 08:43 AM |
I suppose I need to respond to this. I don't believe the karma scripts are
broken. They are not completely accurate at the moment, but this is a
problem with the data they have to work with. I know who the anonymous
poster is, and what the problem is in that case. It may seem like I've just
set this stuff up and forgotten about it, but rest assured, I am paying
attention.
The problem in the anonymous case is that there is not enough data for the
scripts to be effective. The older articles have very little moderation and
rating data, and in this case the member has a lot of older posts. If a
person has a lot of old articles or comments, it's easy for one person to
go through and moderate them down. Even if these older posts simply had
average scores, just having some numbers in there would make it so the one
person moderating them down wouldn't be able to affect it that much. The
more unmoderated posts, the easier it is. The up side is that it's also
easy for people's karma to balance out in these cases without any more
input required from the denied member. More moderation will fix all of
this, so I don't think I need to adjust the scripts.
I am still trying to decide whether to calculate karma daily. Currently
it's calculated every sunday morning just like some of the larger
religions. While this does allow more time for the punished to feel
punished, it draws out stuff like this.
My only comment on Abaddon's case is that Rae and I have had a few
discussions about the man. They're usually the opposite of our discussions
about Sindel. They go something like this:
Rae: Take him back!
Me: No!
Rae: Why'd you have to chase him to my site?
Me: That's what you get for making your site cool
Rae: Please take him back?
Me: Nope, he's all yours now
Rae: Fucker
(I'm not without pity, I'll be setting the karma scripts up for Rae on her
site soon) ____________________
So Sayeth Me
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Shade
Fanatic  Posts: 289 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 19/8/2003 at 07:39 AM |
Wo decides what the popular opinion is abaddon? The powerful decide, that's
who. Then they tell the rest of the society over which they rule how things
have changed. It's a pretty simple concept, and if people would stop crying
over spilt equality then we could probably all have a better time of it.
Now a few things specific to you abaddon; you refuse to play by the rules.
This is obvious in your blatant disregard for the karma free zone that
Devin set up. You don't even try to fit in. You make comments that may seem
very deep and insiteful to you at the moment, but receive either no respons
or a resounding "hunh?". You have made no attempt to actually join in any
conversations except this one which you started in order to bitch and moan
and potentially form a power base of the dissolutioned. When questioned in
other forums you have refused to respond in any way that can be seen as
coherent.
If you actually paid attention to the form and funtion of the site you
would see that it is not a free for all. If you actually read the posts to
which you "respond" you would see that your comments are not on topic. If
you actually deserved our sympathy, you would have earned it by now.
I have no sympathy for your poor little "denied" whinings, but I have every
enthusiasm for the chance to actually address these issues with you.
Perhaps you have a good reason, perhaps you are just a bot set up to annoy,
and perhaps you are a dozen psych and philosophy students in need of an
outlet. Whatever your actual damage is, don't ask for things you are not
willing to give. ____________________
It is only through the lack of sex that humanity derives the need for an
all encompassing blind love. And in that moment of extreme horniness with
no relief in sight, in that moment can be found the birth of religion.
-Me
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Abbadon
Fanatic Posts: 499 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 19/8/2003 at 03:05 AM |
| It appears that there is little difference between the idiots you would
escape from and those you would consort with. Who decides what popular
opinion is? The popular who think it, or the unpopular who cannot? I feel
this bird analogy has gone far enough. It does not give scope for accurate
interpretation, as birds have not a brain developed enough for hate. ____________________
Light is changing to shadow, and casting a shroud over all we have known.
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ickgirl
Member   Posts: 99 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 18/8/2003 at 08:33 AM |
woops, sorry. send it to: ickgirl at hotmail
thanks!
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ickgirl
Member Posts: 99 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 18/8/2003 at 08:30 AM |
anonymous person - please send me a message.
don't worry, I'll be nice. I'd like more feedback, etc.
thanks!
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Psychopixi
Fanatic  Posts: 376 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 18/8/2003 at 08:10 AM |
| Solution? Cage the little birdie. ____________________
Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life.
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 17/8/2003 at 08:30 PM |
anonymous: if you're accessing the site, then you probably have access to
the members list, which has everyone's provided contact
information(including email, MSN IM, Yahoo IM, and whatnot). If not, I'm
sure a google search would turn up his personal site which would have his
email. +
The reason, I believe, he wasn't explicit in his description of how the
scripts work is to keep the more motivated from finding loopholes in it so
they could continue to cause shit, OR because he may have thought it wasn't
important enough to get into detail. They're new, I'm sure that the kinks
are still being worked out. My understanding of Devin's article about the
scripts came off that it was written for ADULTS (which is not age specific)
because this is NOT highschool, nor will highschool behavior be acceptable.
If he wanted to write something for "the pantheon" then all he'd have to
do is email it to them, why make the big fuss of a public article to reach
a few people? Plus, if you do'nt know who the moderators are, then how can
you know that it's a power struggle? You don't know WHO they are, how many
they are, why they were given moderator authority...unless a "little
birdie" told you that too. If that is the case then there is a whole
'nother issue on our hands. The only thing worse than drama is rumors and
allegations, and tho I like the new changes, thought it'd clean things up
and help remove the crappiness that had collected and festered, if that
shit starts to fly I'm OUT.
Ahem, Abbadon: As for misspellings, I don't own a dictionary nor do I care
to get one. My spelling is fine but for the occasional typo or word that
eludes me, and that is infrequent enough to allow myself to not care. The
site isn't a question or battlefield for good or evil, it's a website to
escape the idiots of the world. Idiots aren't people who disagree with
everyone, or have unpopular opinions. Just ask monolycus, he's constantly
disagreeing, and his thoughts are rarely outright applauded, and he's far
from an Idiot. I also don't expect you to change, I never asked you or
anyone to do that, and I'm sorry your article was rejected, but not for the
reasons you might suspect. As told to everyone who has an article
rejected, try rewriting it, or making it reasonable or rational and
resubmit it. Or don't, for all I care, you're a free bird do as your
little heart desires.
And Psychopixie, I think I have heard that one before *wink* and I was
talking to a brittish woman at work today who was telling me that when her
daughter was in 6th grade they moved to america, and in class one day she
needed an eraser, and loudly asked the teacher for a "rubber" which made
the class explode in laughter, among other silly to embarassing "language
barriers" with the lingo that they encountered. It's a hoot. ____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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Anonymous
Posts: 116 Registered: 14/4/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 17/8/2003 at 04:45 PM |
I personally don't think the Karma scripts work. The problem isn't the
scripts at all, but the moderators. It's a human problem. Over the last two
weeks I watched all of my comments moderated down from 2 on average
sometimes 3, to 0 or -1. I found a little probation box in the right bottom
corner soon after that. Now I can’t access the site or contribute to help
my “Karma”. Now I’ve heard of the vengeful/ multiple moderating going on,
and I think that’s what probably happened to me. I also can’t message Devin
to tell him that that’s what I think happened, and I misplaced his e-mail
(so the product of that disposition is ‘fuck it’). I’ve also heard that the
moderators have been bitched at for this, but that doesn’t stop them nor
does it fix any of the problems the moderators are creating (i.e. people
still stay blocked no matter what). It’s become a lord of the flies
setting, chalk full of drama and petty power struggles.
It seems to me that Devin can give a fuck, as he has the right not to.
However, this IS just a nice way of kicking people off the site and not
leave everyone pissed at him. The machine does it, not Devin. He leaves the
responsibility in our hands, but no way (in honest to god actuality) to fix
the problems. It’s a very good system, but I don’t think it allows much
flexibility for anything. Now I know the Karma has a decay period, but how
long does that last? a month? a decade? He wasn’t specific, as he wasn’t
specific about anything in his article on the Karma script. You can infer
his reasons for doing that. A little birdie told me that he wrote the
article for people not in high school, and for those who can really
understand it. I think that’s dog shit and it was written for the
pantheon.
Internet Drama is the worst sin/crime against humanity.
Why build a playground if you don’t want anyone else to play?
You guys should just exchange e-mails. It would be a lot cheaper.
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Abbadon
Fanatic Posts: 499 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 17/8/2003 at 03:05 PM |
| Misspelt? You are the one discussing the evolution of language! Thats what
dictionaries were invented for. What is good without evil? No man is an
island. Least of all those who socially comment. Dry your tears Mary. I am
not upset, nor do I wish to change anything. That woyld be futile. Who can
change the changer? My article was rejected. Stop doing that Psyche, you
know I can't argue against you! ____________________
Light is changing to shadow, and casting a shroud over all we have known.
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Psychopixi
Fanatic Posts: 376 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 17/8/2003 at 05:26 AM |
Abbadon: Bettie is right - the karma scripts are impersonal, judging on
what has been said, not who said it. You're raging against something which
doesn't understand rage. (Now, why do I have rage against the machine in my
head?) Stop wasting your efforts on something that you can't change, and
instead bloody well prove to everyone that you're as intelligent and funny
as I *know* you are.
Schizo: You said that a club for dog lovers excludes those that hate dogs.
You're absolutely right of course. But in that case isn't it the person
wanting to join who decides if he likes, or hates dogs and not the rest of
the club? After all, how can you say someone hates dogs, if you don't know
them. They may even appear to hate dogs, but in actual fact love them, and
a judgment based on appearances may be incorrect.
Bettie: I heard this joke once; An American tourist was staying at a posh
hotel in London and the manager said he'd get someone to show him to the
lift. The American laughed at him and said haughtily, "Oh you mean the
elevator!". The manager replied, "No, I mean the lift." The American,
getting rather stroppy, snapped, "I think I know what it's called, we
invented it after all." The manager coolly came back with, "Yes, but we
invented the language." ...*hides* *please don't kill me* ____________________
Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life.
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 16/8/2003 at 06:43 PM |
Schitz, I love it when you hyphenate and create new words  Along the lines
of descriptions of "societies", you're 100% right.
And Abbadon, seriously, what is pissing you off exactly? Most everything
I've seen from you is in the forums, which from what I understand are free
game to ANYONE. That amounts to a whole lot of nuthin when you count that
MOST of what I've ever seen you contribue is along the lines of brit-snob
yankee hatin' that has nothing to do with the conversation at hand. So I
ask, exactly what is it that you're being prevented from doing? Posting an
article that clearly and reasonably states WHY you think americans are
stupid? Hell, if it's a good read and written well I'm sure it'd be passed
with honors by the editors. But then, I don't recall you ever submitting
an article, OR starting a forum (other than this one, and if there are
others, then enlighten me), so why the lamenting over milk that hasn't been
spilled when it didn't exist in the first place?
From what I understand of the "karma" scripts, it's impersonal to prevent
favoritism or grudges, so it's not you against the world it's you against
yourself.
So, the obvious choices are to participate and let the karma scripts under
your username repair themselves, or create your own space and see how much
you like it when trolls, idiots, and shit starters run all over it. But
then you've always come across as the type who likes the presence of
"peons" so as to appear or feel more important and intellectual, vs finding
where you fit best with people and being an equal. I could be wrong, and
it's not a personal attack, it's just an observation that could be the root
of the real issue.
I'm sure you have wonderful things about you that would make good reads,
good fights, good discussions, or good fun, but unfortunately you make no
attempt to let other people see that. And I hate to break it to you, but
nobody suffers from that but yourself.
Oh, and as for american corruption of language, sorry doofy, the europeans
that other europeans drove out/shipped out/kicked out took the original
form with them, and as with speciation, things like that evolve when
spearated by half a world and immersed in a new culture. If people all over
the world didn't gradually corrupt their language daily, we'd all be
speaking latin, aramaeic (spelled?), or older than that. It's a part of
evolution. Step up sucka, or I gonna go blizzouse on your hizzouse. Fo
shizzle.
[Edited on 8/17/2003 by bettie_x] ____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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Schizo
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 897 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 16/8/2003 at 04:44 AM |
And I am not surprised that, when someone mispells a word, and then uses it
in an awkward context, that confusion arises about what the hell they are
trying to say.
Every time a group of friends gets together and does not invite the people
they don't like, then you have an example of a society choosing its
members. Just because one horrible person attempted to create a society
that excluded people for wrong reasons, and enforced it in a terrible way,
does not mean that exclusiveness is wrong. It is quite normal and right
that a group of people who want to discourse with intelligence and common
courtesy, would exclude those who lack intelligence and courtesy.
It's not a question of Devin the artist choosing his audience. Anyone who
wants can look at Shmeng. If you are to compare Shmeng to a work of art,
then Devin is choosing his co-artists; those that add content, and
hopefully beauty, to his work.
And who gives a shit about reflecting the dicotomy of the world? If I want
to see dicotomy, I can walk down the street. That's the problem with the
world - the dicotomy that includes so many stupid and unpleasant people.
In other words, the Shmeng. This website is supposed to be a place where
one can escape from and vent about Shmeng, not a place where it is
produced.
Universities do not reflect the dicotomy of the world. Or at least, they
should not. Universities are a place where the intelligent who want to
feed and expand their knowledge get a chance to. They are not places for
the stupid or lazy.
Clubs do not reflect the dicotomy of the world. A club for dog lovers
excludes those who hate dogs. A club for gardeners excludes those who
don't like getting their hands dirty.
All societies choose their members so that like people can group together
to acheive a purpose. What good would a scientific society do if they
allowed people to join who didn't know oxygen from uranium? What would
they ever get accomplished? How stupid it would be if such a society tried
to reflect the dicotomy of the world?
One more thing - you seem to like to make such sweeping blanket statements
about art and artists - what they are "bound to observe", and what the two
sole reasons for producing art are. You make it sound like being an artist
is a cut-and-dried thing that you've got all figured out. Which makes me
pretty damn certain that you're talking through your ass. There are a
million reasons to produce art, and no artists is "bound to observe" any
sort of dicotomy, if that's not the subject of his work. Some art is
realism, some is idealism, some is no pinpointable -ism at all. Some of
it's just plain fun too look at or listen to.
But if you feel so strongly that "dicotomy" needs to be included for things
to be all right and valid, then as I've said, no one is forcing you to stay
here. Go make your own dicotomy-ful website, and let everyone say whatever
they want. I hope you enjoy all the vast spectrum of stupidity and
nastiness that we are trying to avoid here. If you don't like the
philosophy of Shmeng, and still want to stick around, then forgive me if I
don't weep tears of blood for you.
____________________
"You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the
dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest of
girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"
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Abbadon
Fanatic Posts: 499 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 16/8/2003 at 03:00 AM |
suppliant: adj. 1. expressing entreaty or supplication. ~n., adj. 2.
another word for supplicant [C15: from F supplier to beseech, from L
supplicare to kneel in entreaty] - 'suppliantly adv.
I am not surprised a society that corrupts the language it was granted has
forgotten such words.
Does a society choose it members? Hitler tried to. Does an artist choose
his audience? And if he does can it ever be a true reflection of the
dicotomy within the world that all artist are bound to observe? ____________________
Light is changing to shadow, and casting a shroud over all we have known.
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Schizo
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 897 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 14/8/2003 at 03:23 PM |
I never said you couldn't enjoy art in progress. Please don't put words in
my mouth. In fact, I am very much enjoying this particular work of art in
progress.
But lets continue with the concept of Shmeng as the work of art. Devin,
the artist, started the work. He invited others of like mind to enjoy both
the art and the creation of it, rather like members of a band. More and
more people noticed the work, and were attracted and joined in. But soon
it became apparent that too many cooks were spoiling the broth. Many
people were adding to the work of art, but not in a way that enhanced the
beauty and effectiveness of the piece. They muddied the colors and garbled
the sounds. So Devin decided to remove some of the would-be artists,
leaving those that were actually contributing to the value of the
production. Many were angered, but without just cause, since the original
concept and work were Devin's - it was his project, and the others were
only there at his invitation, and had no intrinsic ownership. ____________________
"You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the
dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest
of
girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"
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