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Drama: RFC: Picture Copyrights |
Posted by
Devin on Tuesday, July 02, 2002 - 07:13 PM PST
This is a request for comments on the subject of picture copyrights on this site. I usually do this kind of thing as a poll, but those are multiple choice and I think this subject calls for more verbose answers. I think the current rules are working ok at keeping people from posting other people's pictures here, but now I'm trying to figure out how to keep people from stealing pictures off of this site and claiming they are their own. I don't like the idea of sticking a shmeng.com copyright notice on other people's pix. I was thinking maybe a "found on shmeng.com" notice, which would make some sites not accept them, but not all sites have that policy or check pictures. Another option is to require a copyright notice on all submitted pictures, but some people barely have the technology to submit pictures, much less write on them. And what about the 420 (yes there's exactly 420 right now) pictures already posted? Post your ideas in the comments please. Thanks, -Devin-
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RFC: Picture Copyrights | Login/Create an account | 39 Comments |
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Re: RFC: Picture Copyrights
by Rogue (Rogue@skew.org)
on Jul 02, 2002 - 07:52 PM
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If this is a problem, I suggest placing the copyright notice on the pics, it should be easy enough to script. Either that or send Ickgirl after each of them in turn, with a Tonya Harding signature series tire iron or Rodney King signature series 8-D-cell police flashlight.
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Re: RFC: Picture Copyrights
by Comedian (eccentrically_long@yahoo.com)
on Jul 02, 2002 - 09:11 PM
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While I do side with the maglight solution, and would enjoy partaking of that myself, solutions for this kind of shit come to mind in the form of photoshop and a simple side tag. Everybody is doing it, Stileproject and Somethingawful. From the worst to.. slightly worser.
Alrighty ladies, let's slap some lipstick on this pig!
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Re: Re: Re: RFC: Picture Copyrights by Psychopixi on Jul 03, 2002 - 02:48 AM (User info | Send a Message) http://psychopixi.com | I'm sure that nobody would object to your altering their pictures slightly, if it meant that they wouldn't get stolen. If they do object to you altering them, then they could either add something themselves or just risk it that their pictures won't be stolen.
What kind of thing would you be adding to the pictures? What would it look like? |
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Re: RFC: Picture Copyrights
by ickgirl on Jul 03, 2002 - 08:54 AM
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ok, here's my opinion on the matter, and it may or may not be suprising.
I think everyone should be responsible for their own pictures. If you're not worried about people stealing them or you just don't care, then post them the way you have been. If you're worried about it, either add something to them so no one steals them, or don't upload them.
So, that's my opinion.
I wouldn't object to the following, however:
When people upload their picture, they click on a box that says "yes, I agree" giving us permission to add something on it that says "stolen from shmeng.com"
;)
ickgirl
(my arms are tired from all this skull cracking!)
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Re: Re: RFC: Picture Copyrights by feralucce on Jul 03, 2002 - 10:14 AM (User info | Send a Message) http://feralucce.vibechild.com | *thinking* well... I can help work up a water mark for it... If anyone takes one of mine... again... I am going to be pressing charges...
Feral |
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Re: Re: Re: RFC: Picture Copyrights by ickgirl on Jul 03, 2002 - 10:22 AM (User info | Send a Message) http://www.envy.nu/ickgirl | good luck with pressing charges, i'm guessing that's like pissing into the wind
much more hassle than any outcome could ever make up for |
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Re: Re: Re: RFC: Picture Copyrights by ickgirl on Jul 03, 2002 - 11:28 AM (User info | Send a Message) http://www.envy.nu/ickgirl | hm, the ones that are already posted, I would maybe just leave those. People post their pictures, knowing full well that they could be ripped off.
unless you want to go into the hassle of having people contact you if they want their pictures altered.
I do think you could maybe offer doing it for the people who have their own galleries if they'd like.
I think that would be the best compromise, since so many of the pictures are old and stuff.
Or, you could make the decision to almost start fresh with pictures, but I'm not sure that'd be much fun. |
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Re: Re: Re: RFC: Picture Copyrights by Arthegarn on Jul 04, 2002 - 02:40 AM (User info | Send a Message) | I suggest an email to the submitters of the pictures in the archive, in which you explain them that, in view of recent events, Shmeng can not guarantee that the pictures are used solely for viewing in this page. Therefore you ask for their permission to write the "Stolen by some jerk from Shmeng" thing (just reply the message with subject "oermission granted" or something like that). That is offered in the best interest of the model and submitter: Shemng is no liable by any damage related to the misuse of rhe pictures (THEY uploaded them and nobocy asked them to) and, after this, Shemng doesn't consider irself even morally responsible after having done all it can.
Anyway this is a problem that simply does not have a solution other than only allowing members access to the pictures (and even then it wouldn't work) Anyone can cut off the part of the picture where the "I am a bloody liar and I stole this picture" thing can be seen.
I am with Ickgirl. We are all grownups here, and those who are not... well, they look as if they were
Arthegarn |
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Re: RFC: Picture Copyrights
by VampCourt (Morbidchic@hotmail.com)
on Jul 03, 2002 - 10:34 AM
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http://www.geocities.com/vampcourt/index.html?1017202482720
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With my normal me pictures, i really dont care. im me.. and if someone really wanted proof that it was me in the pic.. its not like i couldnt just prove it. it IS my face after all. and as for art work.. i think people should put thier signature on it for that reason. Thats why i always sign my work. i mean i think i have a couple pics on here that arent signed but those were mainly created to be icons for shmeng.
it really sucks that there is a abundant amount of people that steal identities online and such. but its a shitty world. your gonna have shitty people. better to protect what you have.
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Re: RFC: Picture Copyrights
by Devin (devin-at-vibechild-dot-com)
on Jul 03, 2002 - 11:19 AM
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http://devin.vibechild.com/
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Another issue is that I don't want to be manually adding text to all of the pictures that come in. And to automate it, it would be really easy to just stamp all of them, but really hard to script it so that I could just automatically stamp certain ones.
Also, if it's scripted, the stamp will always be in the same place - which means there's a possibility of covering up someone's existing copyright notice. That kinda sucks.
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Re: Re: RFC: Picture Copyrights by ickgirl on Jul 03, 2002 - 11:33 AM (User info | Send a Message) http://www.envy.nu/ickgirl | well, maybe you should just leave things the way they are.
if people truly fear their "identity" being stolen, then they should do something about it. anyone can download some free cheapy editing program and add some words to their pictures...and if for some reason they can't, then they have a choice to make.
Like Court says, she signs her work. If your work is important to you, sign it!
If it's just some photo of you, but you're freaked out about someone stealing the image and representing "you" or rather representing the representation of you, then stick some words on there. |
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Re: Re: RFC: Picture Copyrights by Xaoswolf (Xaoswolf@hotmail.com) on Jul 03, 2002 - 11:38 AM (User info | Send a Message) http://Xaoswolf.tripod.com | You could always add a line to the FAQ that says the lower right corner will be stamped with a Shmeng logo. If they bitch that you stamped it, then they obviously didn't read the faq. |
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Re: RFC: Picture Copyrights
by necromancer on Jul 03, 2002 - 01:44 PM
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every time you upload a picture, you risk having it stolen. devin, i don't think you should waste time stamping all the pictures, or adding words, or whatever. someone who wants to steal a picture will regardless. all they have to do is crop and alter so teh words don't show.
how do you "go after" someone for picture theft anyway???
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Re: Re: RFC: Picture Copyrights by feralucce on Jul 04, 2002 - 09:06 AM (User info | Send a Message) http://feralucce.vibechild.com | That is easy... teh copyright laws... were made for this very reason... In the united states, the internet communications act of 1998 allows for prosecution of individuals in cases of internet fraud and copyright violation...
Feral |
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Re: RFC: Picture Copyrights
by Monolycus on Jul 03, 2002 - 02:01 PM
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I can't speak for the majority, but I do not mind a stamp or watermark being applied to pictures. The time consuming, pain-in-the-ass approach would be to make a clickable consent for all new submitted pictures to be stamped in order to be displayed in the gallery (something smallish in the lower left-hand corner should not be too disruptive... it's not like inscribing a "666" on everyone's foreheads), and to have persons with existing pictures email in their wishes about having their pictures altered, removed, or left the way they are.
I realise that this would require a great deal of work and energy for Devin & associates. If the picture stealing pandemic is worth the hassle of amending the policies in this way, perhaps the work could be delegated to qualified members to make things easier?
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Re: RFC: Picture Copyrights
by MorteAscendo on Jul 03, 2002 - 06:23 PM
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Well...about the pictures you have no find some people that familliar with some type of digital art(photoshop...etc..) and send them or have them dowload like 10-20 pics and just mark them with a logo or script of choice...im sure big fans of this place wouldnt mind helping out..including myself...well..thats my 2 cents.
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Re: RFC: Picture Copyrights
by Sticupus (sticupus@hotmail.com)
on Jul 03, 2002 - 11:24 PM
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I cannot give a solution to your problem, but I can agree that the copyright notice would be terrible for peoples art and images. For example: My piece in the Other Art gallery, "Sticupus Idealized Icon" would look like crap if any writing were on it. It would take away the simplicity and the entire point of the image.
If you do decide to put a copyright notice on that image, I hold the right to superimpose porn on top of it. I might as well since the piece is fucked. :D
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Re: RFC: Picture Copyrights
by necromancer (blue_necromancer@hotmail.com)
on Jul 04, 2002 - 08:23 AM
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okay, here's an idea and maybe i've had too much coffee this morning and i have no idea if this is even possible:
the picture is viewed as normal on this page, but when someone tries to copy the picture, a huge watermark covering the ENTIRE picture appears on the copy. like "stolen, stolen, stolen" or some such. again i haven't any idea if this is even possible to do.
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Re: Re: RFC: Picture Copyrights by necromancer (blue_necromancer@hotmail.com) on Jul 04, 2002 - 08:26 AM (User info | Send a Message) | exactly like what happens when you photocopy something and reads void... |
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Re: Re: Re: RFC: Picture Copyrights by Shade (Shade@Gothcult.com) on Jul 04, 2002 - 09:15 AM (User info | Send a Message) http://www.hotelshade.com | Actually, Necromancer just voiced the same thought I had, but the only way I can think of to implement it would be so easy to overcome as to just be silly. Using style sheets, you could actually make cetrain that the 'theft tag' was actually covered for normal viewieng. Namely, add a black border around the whole thing with the words "Stolen from Shmeng this photo copyright the artist/photographer" on it. But hell, you don't even need photoshop to overcome that...I'view comes with a basic crop image option.
Other than that I think the biggest thing we can all do here is probably just cope. Welcome to the digital age. Dev, add a disclaimer of liability to the page where you post the pic so everyone has to check the box and agree to release you from liability for photo theft and admit they are aware that placing their art/photos digitally does in fact hold certain risks. Run it past Arthegarn to make sure you not actually saying it's OK to steal those same pics, and we can all get on with our lives.
Sindel, sue the shit out of them if they steal your photo, in your case that image is actually your stock in trade so it's a serious case, kind of like Feral's art. Same thing for Vamp. If someone snags my pic and uses it, I'd just write the sysop of whatever site they were on and then politely ask the user to remove it. If they refused I'd have fun abusing them.
Quite honestly there are a thousand things we can do to try and protect ourselves, but there are about two that will work. One: accept it as a fact of the digital age and move through the joke, or two: don't post the pictures. Personally I enjoy the galleries primarily because it's fun to have a face to put with the voice, and in the case of the artwork, especially like Feral's or Bettie's stuff, I love that I get to see these artists work so early on. It's like getting to swing on the velvet rope in the museum. Or something like that...I will admit I occassionally get worried about how much of a meat market Sindel's pics get turned into. Sure it's a marvelous ego boost thing for her, but at fifteen, if I had this much attention paid to my body, I have run the risk of not showing my mind, but that's an entirely different subject.
I guess what I'm saying is I can't really see any effective way to stop the theft, but I don't see it as a reason to stop posting pics as well. It's just a risk of using computers, like crossing the street in a city, you may get hit by a car, but does that keep any of us confined to just one block? |
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Re: Re: Re: RFC: Picture Copyrights by Devin (devin-at-vibechild-dot-com) on Jul 04, 2002 - 03:40 PM (User info | Send a Message) http://devin.vibechild.com/ | I'm thinking about adding one of those scripts - problem is, they only work on people who are using internet explorer, and who are too dumb to turn off javascript in the preferences. Of course that does still cover a lot of people. |
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: RFC: Picture Copyrights by Shade (Shade@Gothcult.com) on Jul 04, 2002 - 10:35 PM (User info | Send a Message) http://www.hotelshade.com | it wouldn't exactly be hard to write either, but again, you just tun off javascript, or hit
View ->source and just use the graphics address from there |
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: RFC: Picture Copyrights by Devin (devin-at-vibechild-dot-com) on Jul 07, 2002 - 12:50 PM (User info | Send a Message) http://devin.vibechild.com/ | Thanks shade. I added this because it was so easy, but I don't think it's going to be very effective. Even for the people using internet explorer - the new versions, all you have to do is mouseover a picture, and a little toolbar pops up with a save button. But you can no longer right click on the pictures using internet explorer for what it's worth. |
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: RFC: Picture Copyrights by Devin (devin-at-vibechild-dot-com) on Jul 09, 2002 - 02:49 PM (User info | Send a Message) http://devin.vibechild.com/ | maybe I'll have to make it so everytime you put your mouse over the word ickgirl, something pops up that says "PUNKASS!" |
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Re: RFC: Picture Copyrights
by callei (plyn@plynlymon.com)
on Jul 04, 2002 - 10:07 AM
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Identity theft is annoying and unfun, true. But if you dont want the whole world to see you, dont go outside. For all the artists here, would you willingly and for free allow someone to copy your art? If you post it here or ANYWHERE not password protected, you are doing just that. Big brother cant stop the theft. He can help you hunt them down and get some of your own back
IF you are a model, do you willingly and freely let anyone take pictures of you posing? That is what you are doing if you are posting the pictures here.
This is called the world-wide (see that WORLD)-web. Its like just like being in public, despite some of the laws that let you go after them after the fact. Anything that can be stolen, will be, just like a public beach, in a mall, or at a park. We are in public here.
As a model or artist (who's pictures have inherent value in dollars) you are getting little or no publicity here. You also arent just sharing with friends here. Remember that. You have put up a display booth on a crowded street where everyone has cameras and likes to use them.
For the rest of us with sloppy webcam pictures or whatever, identiy theft happens regularly and the net just made it easier for those kinds of people to fake being you in this one place (the net). Be aware that you are opening yourself up for that risk and deal with it. Be prepared to hunt for the theft, investing both time and enegry to protect yourself from your own act. Sue them. You have the right.
I had my real life identy stolen once. It was strange and lots of people got hurt and i was shaken for months about it, so i do actually know what i am talking about here.
I think the easiest solution is dont post a pic if it has intrensic value (art) or if you are nervous of the theft of that pic and a false persona being developed for it. Nothing else will protect your pictures better than you not risking them in the first place.
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Re: RFC: Picture Copyrights
by Shade (Shade@Gothcult.com)
on Jul 04, 2002 - 08:25 PM
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I did have one other thought, I don't know how much of a pain in the ass this would be, but what about a script that literally shreds the picture? cut the pics into 16 pieces or something and have them put together with a style sheet. I've seen it done on a few other sites that wanted to protect thier investment, granted that was a few years ago, but if its not to difficult, it would be a relatively good deterant to those who just want to grab the easiest pic on the net to use as their own...
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Re: RFC: Picture Copyrights
by Alugarde (SoulCiphyr@aol.com)
on Jul 05, 2002 - 09:44 AM
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Someone needs to invent the digital equivelant of "Kodak" written all over the back of the picture...
I do like the picture shredding idea though, but 16 pieces sounds like more of a puzzle then an obstacle. Is there any way you could just scramble all the pixels?
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Re: RFC: Picture Copyrights
by oohp (oohp@gotik.nu)
on Jul 08, 2002 - 04:48 AM
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Copyright notices suck. People who want copyright notices on their pics should put those copyright notices themselves (I believe some people here already do). You should add a JPEG comment to those pics reflecting they were taken from this site.
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Re: RFC: Picture Copyrights
by Alugarde (SoulCiphyr@aol.com)
on Jul 08, 2002 - 08:00 PM
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Something I saw on another web site recently was a relatively thin copyright notice put on each picture. Diagnolly. That way it doesn't block much of the picture, but in order to get rid of it you'd have to crop out a major portion of the picture. Is there any way show the picture normally in the galleries but have it show up when the picture is copied?
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Re: Re: RFC: Picture Copyrights by Shade (Shade@Gothcult.com) on Jul 09, 2002 - 07:49 AM (User info | Send a Message) http://www.hotelshade.com | I'v been thinking about that idea as wel, and I think it would be possible, but only with some major recoding of the gallery, sort of like a magic decoder ring, the only problem is the only way I can think of to do it would add a slight color overlay to every picture... (ie put a light red banner across the middle of the picture and then make it the background of a table and then put an actual gif with alot of transparency of the same color as the actual picture the table carried.) that would make it seriously harder to get the picture in the first place, (you'd have to view source and all that) but like I said, it would be like looking at the picture through a red filter... |
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