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Author: Subject: Vegetate this

Fanatic





Posts: 355
Registered: 5/8/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 5/8/2004 at 07:42 AM
What the hell is with vegetarianism? Seriously. What is wrong with eating the flesh of another creature? Many other creatures do it. It provides uch needed and hard to substitute nutrients. It is natural.
We give ourselves all of these fantastic moral grounds for not killing othe living beings and it is frankly extraordinary. If there was a consistency I could perhaps deal with this, but the fact of the matter is that many people fanatical abot vegetarianism will not raise a finger to help another person. You whine and whinge about the cruelty of it and try to 'actively' do something, yet I do not see all of the vegetarians flocking to the third world with their excess food and money. It is spent on the more expensive substitutes for meat. A few pounds or pennies, or dollars perhaps, do absolutely jack all. It is a technique to make you feel better. Do you stop driving because of the damage it causes? How about your electricity? Or your gas? Or the vast resevoirs built to pump water. They do more irreperable damage to the world than my steak ever can. I could even actively try and wouldnt manage as much through meat eating. Some people choose to leave morals aside in some issues but will condemn all when they do not conform to the morals which they have chosen. This hypocracy is completely unforgivable. What is more; meat tastes great. It is marvellous. I lived on a quorn and tofu diet but all i tasted in this time was the vast amounts of seasoning necessary to make the goddamn stuff edible. So get a grip. Don't be inconsistent. Don't even try to uphold some 'morals' and let others slide. Save a cow. Eat a vegetarian.

 
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Fanatic




Posts: 499
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 5/8/2004 at 07:54 AM
Cows, pigs and sheep of the varieties we farm do not exist, and have not existed in the wild for hundreds of years. When a beef cow is born its sole (excuse the pun) purpose on this earth is to produce beef. Killing it is simply fulfilling its allotted purpose. Cows cannot even live in the wild any more, they are genetically bred by humanity and therefore rely on it.

Why don't vegetarians go out to Africa and try and preach to lions that they should eat fruit instead of other animals. Are they not killing to fulfill their place in their food chain. Humans are at the top of theirs and therefore can choose any animal beneath them to eat as part of the natural process. To go against this is to go against nature, and we've all seen Jurassic park haven't we!

 

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Light is changing to shadow, and casting a shroud over all we have known.

 

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Posts: 648
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  posted on 5/8/2004 at 08:25 AM
W0rmW00d you do not know what you have started here. There are quite a few vegeterians and vegans on this site who can back up everything they believe in. Try and take a look at a few of the past articles and forums on it. They stretch on and on.

 

____________________
"People always say what we are looking for is a meaning for life…I don't think that's what we're looking for. I think what we're looking for is the experience of being alive." -Joseph Campbell

 

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  posted on 5/8/2004 at 08:29 AM
i can back up all i said too. i will be very willing to attempt a point by point retort to anything that is said. if i do not succeed to my own satisfaction i will gladly become a vegan.

 

____________________
Eritis sicut Deus scientes bonum et malum.

And the third angel sounded, and a troll army did descend upon the world.

 

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Posts: 1570
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  posted on 5/8/2004 at 08:48 AM
I have to work, and when I get back I have to bug bomb my house (bad vegan! whatever...) BUT...but but but...when the chemical fog clears and my house is clean again tonight, I shall return, pronto. Tofu in hand.

And mrd, let the games begin. I think we're about to see QUITE a bit of action

 

____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.

 

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  posted on 5/8/2004 at 08:48 AM
I have to work, and when I get back I have to bug bomb my house (bad vegan! whatever...) BUT...but but but...when the chemical fog clears and my house is clean again tonight, I shall return, pronto. Tofu in hand.

And mrd, let the games begin. I think we're about to see QUITE a bit of action

 

____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.

 

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Posts: 648
Registered: 24/9/2002
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  posted on 5/8/2004 at 08:54 AM
I have my binoculars ready. Let the games begin! Yay! I love a good debate.

 

____________________
"People always say what we are looking for is a meaning for life…I don't
think that's what we're looking for. I think what we're looking for is the
experience of being alive." -Joseph Campbell

 

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Registered: 31/12/1969
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  posted on 5/8/2004 at 10:04 AM
OK, I'll take a run up and get some of the logical arguments out of the way.

First, Vegetarians, to varying degrees, do not eat meat. A vegan will not eat meat, eggs, milk, cheese, roe, most gelatins, or any other animal product. The reasons for either approach vary as much as the reasons for atheism, color preference, personal philosophy, or even trolling.

I personally am Vegetarian because I do not like the way animal protein(Meat) interacts with my bodily fluids. The morning after I have eaten meat My sweat invariably smells sour to me. I have heard from a number of lovers that my cum is less tasty after I have eaten meat, often within a few hours, and my saliva usually tastes meaty and greasy to me for a couple of days after I have a burger. So I don't do it. I will on occasion indulge in a good breakfast of eggs Benedict and I am always tempted by good sushi, but on the whole I eat less than a pound of meat a year. As for the cute little animals, I say fuck 'em. I wear more leather than cotton and I like it that way. I honestly think the animal industry keeps more sick fucks employed right now than any career other than the police and the clergy. Which means that they are busy skull fucking sheep and not children. In reality I think something should be done about the conditions under which animals are kept, but I think there are a lot more important issues facing the world right now. I also know some people on this site truly feel differently and I respect their opinions as well.

Other reasons for not eating meat include genetic issues. I have a very close friend who cannot digest most animal proteins, I mean literally if she eats a steak, she better take small bites, and that's as graphic as I'm going to get. She get's severe stomach aches if she tries to eat anything with too much (say about a quarter of an egg) egg in it and she is allergic to milk proteins and sugars to such an extent that were she to drink a glass of milk; if the anaphylactic shock didn't kill her outright, she'd probably kill herself from the pain of the lactose reaction.

Others are vegetarian, and in this case usually Vegan for political reasons. I have had friends who refuse to eat domestic meat, but who will dig into a good Venison steak because it's the result of man or woman hunting the thing down in it's natural habitat so that the thing only knew between a few seconds and a few hours of anything other than the wild free life. This group of people (which is pretty wide in it's reasoning as well, but is more Bettie's demesne) does not eat meat because of the treatment of the animals and because while they cannot stop the animal industries mistreatment as an individual, they can stop subsidizing it with their own purchases and they can stop condoning that same mistreatment by eating the products of the animal industry.

Then there are still others who are vegetarian or Vegan for health reasons other than allergies. There are those few intelligent dieters out there who still believe that cutting some of the fat out of their diet will help them keep from putting fat onto their hips (as opposed to the scary atkins people), and there are those who are worried about colon cancer or other internal health issues that are related to the damage that meat does as it passes through the body. Still others do not eat meat because of the hormones (Naturally occuring or human introduced) that they get by eating said meat.

The political vegetarians/vegans are the ones most hard hit by the same things that hobble any group powered by the strength of its conviction. There are going to be vegetarians who claim that they do not eat meat because it's killing all the cute a fluffy animals, they will go to the protests, scream "Meat is murder" at the top of their lungs, go home with that ruggedly sexy protester (gender unimportant, they are both usually rugged) have wonderful vegetarian sex with them and then go home in their leather interior car, kick off their leather birkenstocks at the front door and make themselves an omelette from eggs whose parents have never met and whose eyes have never seen natural sunlight. These people are hypocrites and will always be hypocrites. They will waffle from one belief group to the next based purely on someone they want to sleep with, or worse, the fact there is nothing between their ears and they will follow any charismatic leader who speaks after the follower has sneezed.

And finally, to address the taste issue, this is always going to be a matter of preference. I actually enjoy the hell out of the flavor of most meat, I also enjoy the hell out of the flavor of most fake meat. I also really really enjoy the art that goes into flavoring just about anything with spices and herbs. I love the fact that when I cook from scratch the only sodium I ever need is naturally occuring in the vegetables and herbs I cook. I love the subtleties of flavor that one can achieve with well blended ingredients. But if you can't hack the flavors man, get out of the kitchen.

 

____________________
It is only through the lack of sex that humanity derives the need for an all encompassing blind love. And in that moment of extreme horniness with no relief in sight, in that moment can be found the birth of religion.
-Me

 

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Registered: 24/8/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 5/8/2004 at 12:37 PM
Not only are there several well written articles about vegetarianism and veganism in all it's varying forms, along with several rather lovely recipes, there are also articles about waht to expect when you come onto this site trolling around, making broad generalizations in order to get a response. Of course, there is the chance that you might not be trolling. You just might be a narrow minded person who didn't stop to think about the many possible reasons people eat the way they do, nor did you look up the correct spelling for hypocrisy.

 

____________________
Okay, dazzle me.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 1810
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 5/8/2004 at 02:21 PM
I happen to fall on the conivorous and omnivorous end of the spectrum, but I gotta ask... Wormed wood... Why do you have the right, and what gives you the right to declare that they are wrong or bad for their dietary habits?

Now... I will be the first to say that vegans and vegetarians can be presumptuous and tell you what to eat... but you did not encounter that here...

"They do more irreperable damage to the world than my steak ever can." incorrect on several points... 1) The meat industry is driven by a need to grow BIGGER cattle... to feed more people... Now... to do for that they a) feed the cattle hormones b) breed for size and nothing else and c) used to feed them the remains of other cattle... 2) they are HARD on the environments... the herds that are kept FAR outstrip the ones that would be there naturally... and 3) as a result of predation, we started hunting the predatory species to preserve our cattle, and did so to extinction (or near enough)

Bovine growth hormone causes problems in humans... from low birth rates, infertility, cancer and my favorite birthdefects... when you breed for a specific trait, other things fall by the wayside... were cattle to be released over 80% would die due to our active eugenics programs... and the third one resulted in mad cow disease... not to mention that when you feed animals hormones you fuck up their immune systems, so you have to give em antibiotics which gets fed to the humans and we become immune to them and suffer later on...

Now... you have eaten a vegitarian diet... whopptie fuckin do... just fuckin deal... and don't piss on other's dinner because you had a bad experiencee at hot topic with a pissy vegan...

The Feral Has Spoken!

 

____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.

Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist

 

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Status: Offline

  posted on 5/8/2004 at 03:03 PM
I wish these kids would leave thier school papers at school and not try to make everyone else read them. If you double space it and make it font size 12... It fills one page nicely. also you can detect and opening or thesis paragraph, a main body parapgraph with supporting "evidence", and a conclusion paragraph summing up the main ideas. *yawn* i bet it got an "A" since it only had 5 spelling/grammar mistakes and lots of schools accept 6 mistakes as the cut off for an A.

 

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  posted on 5/8/2004 at 05:47 PM
Yeah... and I wish they would leve their pretention at the door

 

____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.



Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist

 

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Posts: 355
Registered: 5/8/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 5/8/2004 at 08:32 PM
too drunk to coherently reply now. will do so in the morning, but suffice to say that i am well beyond schooling, and grammatical and spelling errors are things that i did not care about even then. I shall attempt to respond to all actual retorts when i recover from the hangover that i feel building at the moment. I just put it in to spark what i considered an interesting debate, but if people are not willing to be civil in their response i don't see the point in such debate, or even in the site itself, what with abuse being a common response to legitimate posts.

 

____________________
Eritis sicut Deus scientes bonum et malum.



And the third angel sounded, and a troll army did descend upon the world.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 1810
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 5/8/2004 at 09:15 PM
Worm Wood: and that is exactly the point I was Making...

recommended reading...

http://www.shmeng.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News& amp;file=article&sid=708&mode=flat&order=0&thold=-1

 

____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.





Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist

 

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Posts: 1570
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  posted on 5/8/2004 at 11:26 PM
K kids, here it comes. I've nuclear gas murdered every insect in my house, vaccuumed up their little corpses, shampooed my carpets, done my dishes, ate dinner, and had a beer. Now, with that over....

Q: What is wrong with eating the flesh of another creature?
A: A lot of things, depending on circumstance. Number one, americans eat ENTIRELY too much meat. Way too much. Gluttonous amounts. The human body is not meant to process a hamburger or a steak or bacon or WHATEVER every single goddamned day. As feral pointed out, people are omnivores, and most people will pig out on meat before they'll touch something green. You can survive indefinitely on greens and legumes and beans and well...plant life. If you were to eat NOTHING but meat indefinitely, you'd die of malnutrition (save for people who's genetics require the amino acids and fatty proteins in meat. They do exist.). Secondly, when you consum the flesh of another creature, and that creature, that sentient BEING, has never had a free life, and is treated as an object and subjected to emotional, mental, and physical torture for it's short dark lifespan, EVERYTHING is wrong with it. EVERYTHING.

Second of all, SHUT UP about the goddamned "third world". WHICH third world?! The zillions outside our borders or the zillions INSIDE our borders? I'm sick to death of 'the children" and "the poor people". We, as a species put ourselves in this situation. Yes, I feel terribly that people are born into poverty, into disease, into terrible regimes and rotten situations. I feel TERRIBLE for them, but I don't feel GUILTY because I didn't put them there, and I resent being asked to feel bad for other people. I won't do it, and you can't make me. Their situation is not my fault, not my doing. The meat industry, however, is something that my actions would directly affect. When I buy meat I had no hand in raising, I am directly contributing to murder and misery (unless I would be one of the few people who raise their own or buy "free range"). Am I saving the world? No. Am I single handedly bringing down the "evil empire" of the factory farm? No. Have I EVER thought that my one action would be the pivotal move to bring the giant down? No. I simply refuse to contribute, same as I refuse to contribute to products and companies that seek impoverished or regime strangled countries to work for them, and do what I can to let people know what goes on if they either don't know or ask me about it, and hope they decide to not contribute to torture by going "free range", cutting back, or stop eating meat alltogether.

Why are animals one of my top priority? Because they have no voice. The "third world" has one, commercials and aid groups screaming "feed us, help us, set us free". Animals have "wear us, consume us, enslave us, we don't feel cuz we can't talk". If you want to feed the third world, I suggest you do several things. One, start a petition to prevent the government (the U.S. gov, especially) from destroying thousands of tons of agricultural products yearly to keep yield low and prices up, and provide it to the hungry. Next, cut livestock production and use the acres of land it takes to produce 100 lbs of beef to raise soybeans, potatoes, grains that will feed HUNDREDS instead of 5. Not to mention it'll cut the pollution in the atmosphere, as there will be less and less methane gas from heards of cows being released into the air, less gasoline used in equipment to RAISE livestock, less soil erosion from constant farming to feed the herds. Would you like me to go on?

Now, if we want to go into seasonings and flavors, well that's what you get for buying processed food. Vegan or not. The red of your ketchup, the yellow in your butter and cheese, hell even the red on your HAMBURGER in it's packaging is dyed to make it look raw and appealing! Do you like your french fries salted or unsalted? Do you use marinade on your meat or eat it "dry"?

As for all my "exra money" spent on fake meat...hate to break it to you, but I became vegan for a reason. Yeah, it's nice that when I want a sandwich, I can have veggie deli slices, but they don't taste like meat, and I don't buy them all the time. It's expensive if you're a vegan who wants to eat like you're not. All the new fancy food has only come out in the last four years or so. My husband has been vegan since he was 16, which is 14 years. They didn't have veggie slices and tofurkey and fake sausages back then. Hell, they didn't have them SIX YEARS ago when I stopped eating meat. We ate...well, vegetables. Duh. Hence the word "vegetarian".

And I"m not going to spend my extra pennies on the "third world". I'm going to continue to spend it on cigarettes, alcohol, and video games. And on my all girl Judas Priest cover band "hell bent for pleather". And I'm going to love every minute of it.

So. In conclusion, I see you have a problem with what vegetarians, in your mind, THINK they're doing, but I ask you this; what the fuck are YOU doing that's so friggin special?

 

____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.

 

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  posted on 6/8/2004 at 02:24 AM
My darling Worm. If you want to debate and not be insulted, it might be advisable to initiate the discussion with a post that does not sound like an insult.

And if you don't like the way the site operates, well, no one's holding a gun to your head to keep you here.

 

____________________
"You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest of girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"

 

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  posted on 6/8/2004 at 02:56 AM
The tests for the effects of BGHs on the human genetics hasve never been proven conclusively, and therefore are not submissable in a reasonable argument. And using allergic reactions as an excuse for vegetarianism, really? What percentage of the world population are really allergic to meat? 0.01% maybe, if your lucky. I sense straws being clutched at! Nice try.

 

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Light is changing to shadow, and casting a shroud over all we have known.

 

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  posted on 6/8/2004 at 06:34 AM
Abbadon: well then I will go tell the FDA that their studies are wrong... sorry for listening to an informed source...

 

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/>





Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist

 

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  posted on 6/8/2004 at 07:02 AM
You think the FDa do their own research? They hire research companies to do it. Their findings are normally based on around 60-70% probability, I wouldn't call that conclusive. Nice try.

 

____________________
Light is changing to shadow, and casting a shroud over all we have known.

 

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  posted on 6/8/2004 at 07:43 AM
Abbadon: Feral quoted a source, you just talked about "the tests" with no source. You are asking a group which does not like you to take your word on information of which you have no proof. You fail the debate test, go to a differenet class. And take your puppet w0rmw00d with you.

 

____________________
It is only through the lack of sex that humanity derives the need for an
all encompassing blind love. And in that moment of extreme horniness with
no relief in sight, in that moment can be found the birth of religion. />
-Me

 
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