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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic   Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 21/7/2004 at 01:23 PM |
| callei: *chuckles* not being nice... i was being L33t... *winks* which is
snotty to you normal folks... most people do not think that citing the
dictionary is nice...*grins* I will get som sleep, them perhaps my bile
duct will be workin again ____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
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Bane
Occasional Poster   Posts: 28 Registered: 14/7/2004 Status: Offline
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posted on 21/7/2004 at 04:50 PM |
@Ferraluce: you are 1337?
|\|07 |234|_|_y...
Am i intollerant, because i am Christian?
Who says i have to take it as a given fact, what is written in the
bible?
I need to translate and understand it on my own... the bible is not a
manual... it's some kind of collected stories to draw some knowledge out
of...
uhm... btw. i never go to church... church as an institionalized
organization is somewhat alien to my beliefs...
*scratches head* well... christianism in its essence has nothing to do with
god btw...
my religion class teacher once said
"Who the f*** cares if you believe in god? Even if you don't, as long as
you act out of true altruism, you ARE Christian..."
btw. has anybody of you read the Koran?
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 21/7/2004 at 07:12 PM |
Yes, quite a while ago in a comparative religion class in college, I've
forgotten most of it but I know the basic principals. I think I "know" as
much about it as I do the bible.
And for the record, there is no TRUE "altruism". Every action you do
serves yourself in SOME way. When you freely give money you can't really
afford to give to someone who has less than you, you do it because it helps
someone, and makes you feel good (whether you realise it or not), when you
help someone out that needs help, it makes you feel good, or it gives you a
reason to bitch about always having to help that person, which feels good
and makes you look like a good person even tho you're bitching about it.
It might FEEL altruistic, and that makes you also feel good, so you are
still serving yourself  ____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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IamSquid
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 658 Registered: 27/5/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 21/7/2004 at 07:29 PM |
| Just like when I shake babies. It makes mee feel good. ____________________
i wanted to die, and then it progressed into wanting everyone else to
die so i could watch, and then me die.
-ickgirl
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 21/7/2004 at 08:01 PM |
christianity... by definition, is based on actually believing that Jesus of
nazareth is the christ. The Messiah, as foretold by the prophets of the
Hebrew Scriptures. hell, the word christian is based on the latin for
"little christ"... He claimed that he came "not to destroy the law, but to
fulfill it" and all the laws boiled down to sacrifice to god. if you insist
on labelling yourself, I suggest you find yourself a new one, as this one,
by your statements, is unfit.
christianity is intolerant... ISM is the act of studying... ITY is the act
of being... thus far, any comment of intolerancec I have made is based on
your behavior, not your religion. I.E." Budhism is NOT a religion."
now... altruism versus christianity... christians, 90% of the time feel the
need to help out of christian charity... ALSO... any one that is a
christian by the accepted definition, cannot claim altruism as a reason
simpply by virtue that they are rewarded in heaven. that is NOT
altruism...
also... your statement that anything altruistic makes you a christian is a
crock of shit. Altruism, if it exists had nothing to do with jehovah and
the messiah... ____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 21/7/2004 at 11:43 PM |
Exactly, charity is a TENNANT of certain religions, ie: a decree, not done
out of the imaginary act of "altruism" but as another chore to be done to
gain the ticket to heaven. Don't get me wrong, if charity and giving and
helping others makes you feel good, then by all means do it, but don't go
walking around with that fucking "good guy" badge or stupid smirk on your
face.
You'd also be suprised that people only want your charity or want to give
to a charity based on the organization that collects it or hands it out.
Like aforementioned painting offered as a raffle prize to stock a food
bank, the lady knew I was a satanist and turned it down (open minded wiccan
bitch MY ASS) and when the sept.11 attack hit I opened a website called
"just for love" and asked it be posted on "alternative" AND mainstream link
groups for people to post messages and rememberances, and was turned down
by ALL of them, the main reason being "I don't think that sympathy from
people interested in death and the occult would be proper in this
situation." even tho the site mentioned NOTHING about the poster's
interests.
I wouldn't have as much problem as I do with the whole "wiccan/pagan" crowd
if 90% of them weren't so goddamned DENSE and into themselves.
____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 21/7/2004 at 11:55 PM |
| betty... I'd have posted that site... people suck ____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
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Bane
Occasional Poster Posts: 28 Registered: 14/7/2004 Status: Offline
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posted on 22/7/2004 at 06:27 PM |
Ok buddies... you got it wrong...
as ferraluce said
"christianity... by definition, is based on actually believing that Jesus
of nazareth is the christ. The Messiah, as foretold by the prophets of the
Hebrew Scriptures. hell, the word christian is based on the latin for
"little christ"... He claimed that he came "not to destroy the law, but to
fulfill it" and all the laws boiled down to sacrifice to god. if you insist
on labelling yourself, I suggest you find yourself a new one, as this one,
by your statements, is unfit.
christianity is intolerant... ISM is the act of studying... ITY is the act
of being... thus far, any comment of intolerancec I have made is based on
your behavior, not your religion. I.E." Budhism is NOT a religion."
now... altruism versus christianity... christians, 90% of the time feel the
need to help out of christian charity... ALSO... any one that is a
christian by the accepted definition, cannot claim altruism as a reason
simpply by virtue that they are rewarded in heaven. that is NOT altruism...
also... your statement that anything altruistic makes you a christian is a
crock of shit. Altruism, if it exists had nothing to do with jehovah and
the messiah... "
1. I'ts about Jesus and stuff, ok. No problem with that.
2. It's not "worshipping Jesus" but "acting as Jesus did" ("golden rule")
3. You gave no proof of intolerant Christianism... WTF is ISM and ITY?
please don't use abbreviations.
4 .Buddhism is a philosophy, not a religion. Because there is no god
involved in Bhuddhism.(btw. that was something i got told by quite a number
of Bhuddists i asked
;-) )
5. i didn't mean charity or shit. I meant acting to improve life beacause
of made experience, not egoism.
6. well... i don't try to live up to my beliefs because it could make me
"go to heaven" but because i had quite a hard time and i want people at
least to live not a life that's as bad as mine was/is or what ever...
7. If Jesus was NOT altruistic, why did he do what he did?
Did'nt Jesus tell us to be as he was? Even if we actually can't be Jesus,
can't we just try to make this fucking place called earth a more hospitable
place for everyone?
What's bad about trying to do all this?
@all: I don't run around "with a stupid smirk" on my face and stuff. I'm
not trying to be the one with a "good guy" badge or stuff.
I don't give a f*** bout charity like money collecting or stuff, but i know
what i believe in and how i should act like so i can sleep good at night.
That's the whole point.
btw. Everyone's got the freedom not to believe in god. That's true
freedom... Even if this freedom allows people to do mean things to other
people.everything has a price to be paid, remember that)
[Edited on 23/7/2004 by Bane]
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 22/7/2004 at 08:03 PM |
Ok...we got it wrong... what ever...
You call it a religion, which by your definition requires a god... the
trinity, if you are worshipping god, you are worshipping jesus... Jesus was
intolerant in at least one documented example... The money changers...
Actually, had you read new in america you would see the intollerance and
you choose to ignore the proof offered by the crusades?
A god is not required for religious status... branch away from your
christian sources (websters was written for and by the church...
define acting to improve life...
Well... according to texts (which you dismiss anyway, so religious texts
should not even be a requisite for your definition of religion... jesus did
what he did to fulfill his plan for the world... sooo... by working to make
prophecy that part of you made (trinity) come true... perhaps it was
ego?
If you approach it as you claim.. then your goals are admirable... but so
few do that... I have proof of christian intolerance as my father and
mother are both ministers... I, at one point in time, was subjected to an
excercism to save my soul... a christian staked one of my friends because
he believed god wanted him to kill the "vampire." I have had a christian
minister in my face screaming because I was on campus... and "learning the
knowledge of the world" was evil... and I was just passing through...
picektting at the funeral of a gay man, the beating of a muslim on campus,
the destruction of the local mosque... seems kinda intolerant to me...
"I don't give a f*** bout charity like money collecting or stuff, but i
know what i believe in and how i should act like so i can sleep good at
night. That's the whole point. " which means you do it to feel good...
altruism means doing something good with no concern at all for oneself, so
you do not act in an altruistic way...
[Edited on 7/23/2004 by feralucce] ____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
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Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
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callei
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 22/7/2004 at 09:49 PM |
bane get a grip and go read books (or webistes) not produced for the
western market. There are oodles of them and you dont even have to speak
other languages to read them.
For the record, lots of people do "worship" various Buddhas (there is more
than one "Awakened One") in the same way that Christians worship thier god.
Some respect him like Christians respect thier messiah. Some Sects of
Christianity, if i can use the word sect in this sense, are philisophical
in the same way that Buddhism is a philosophy.
Shinto isnt a religion in the western sense, but it is a religion. Doesnt
matter if the "state" says its the main one or not. After all the
protestant Christian religion wasnt recognized by any state, at first.
I find it interesting that no one brings the Hindu faiths into these
arguements more often. I always wonder why the oldest still continually
practiced popular state sponsored/recognized religion isnt the first one
that comes up in comparing "new" to "old". Oh and "Hindu-sim" is also both
a philosophy and a religion, just like all the other long standing popular
belief structures.
And who really wants to be a bastard born to an insane woman that gets
followed around by a bunch of creeps and freaks then gets nailed to a post
so that other people can feel better about themselves. I sure dont. the
only thing i want to do that Jeusus did is be able to pee standing up
without pissing on my shoes. ____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away.
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 22/7/2004 at 10:08 PM |
callei: I know so little of hindu beliefs that I am unfit to discuss them,
hence the reason that I do not cite them...
Jesus did a couple things I wanna be able to do... 1)The pharisees came to
him saying "master, we found this woman in adultery. The law says stone
her... what do you think we should do?" then he made a logical statement
and they went away!!! they wetn away!!! they went the fuck away... with a
logical statement, they went away...(personally, I think he was writing the
names of their girlfriends in the dirt) 2)turned water into wine
-and-3)made a shitload fish with no expenditure ____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
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Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
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Domkitten
Fanatic   Posts: 470 Registered: 23/9/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 23/7/2004 at 01:48 AM |
Bane, thank you for making me almost pee my pants with laughter. I mean,
really, christianity not intolerant. Wow, I've seen some brillant sarcasm
in my day, but you really take the cake.
What you seem to be describing as christianism, however, is probably pretty
off the mark. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure you've thought your beliefs
thoroughly through and believe you are right. But still, if you are going
to say that you believe in an ecclectic self tailored version of
christianity, than you also have to accept that you are, in fact, not
talking about christanity as it is being discussed here.
This is really going to burst a bubble, but, when you start modifying your
religion, and just start beliving in the parts that seem right you, well,
then, in the eyes of the organized religion your a heathen just like
everybody else. You may like to sit there on your high horse and say the
bible is your manual but not your guide, but in doing so, you can't then
sit there an hope the bible will defend you. Nope, sorry, you're in the
woods and on your own, because you, my friend, are not a christian. Your
pretty much falling into the category of wiccan by those terms. And you
talk to buddhists even further proof.
What you seem to fail to understand or accept is that the concept of
Christianity is so intolerant that even a nice true blue believer like you
is pissing off some bible thumping christian somewhere. I mean, the
Reverend Falewell would have you burned at the stake for nonsense like
"church as an institionalized organization is somewhat alien to my
beliefs...". If church is alien to your religion, then you better believe
your's is alien to the church.
Christinaity has such a long standing institutionalized hatred for other
modes of Christian that even today you have people fighting and killling
each other over it. And before you holler not true, take a look and
Northern Ireland, where the Catholics kill the Protestants with as much
fever as the Protestants killing the Catholics. I mean, the religion aspect
of Christinaity was so muddled that you ended up with Puritians, trying to
make it pure, Quakers, trying to make it fun, and Unitarians, trying to
make it uncontridicting.
Altruism, however, has nothing to do with the religion at all, or at least
with faith. Goodness knows how many true blue christians I've known who
would rather stake a teen mother than see her have an abortion, but who
will in the same breath never consider adopting a baby to save it's life.
Altruism, is a philosophy, like the many others you seem to want to point
out. It's a good philosophy, but it is selfish. It's that, "do unto others
as I would have them do unto me" problem. How can you keep doing unto
others when they never do unto you? When do you get yours.
However, all of this has very little do with anything wiccan, or pagan, or
otherwise as nonsense, truly. As far as what wiccan is, well, every single
wiccan you ask will tell you a different story, in much the same way that
ever single christian you ask will tell you a different story.
What may surprise you the most is, we've heard your line of bullshit
before. We don't care about your brand of religion if your unwilling to
validate your own belief. We have some fine friends and ex-friends of the
flock here who actually know, understand, and question their beliefs,
making them both at the same time more interesting and more wordly than
you. ____________________
It's like kegel exercises for your throat.~Monolycus
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callei
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 23/7/2004 at 05:53 AM |
What does all this have to do with Wiccans and Pagans? Well he is one and
is doing and saying alllll those things that we laugh about. He has read
part of one book:
"the bible is not a manual... it's some kind of collected stories to draw
some knowledge out of."
Has heard one person speak about "alternative" versions of "the"
religion:
"my religion class teacher once said
"Who the f*** cares if you believe in god? Even if you don't, as long as
you act out of true altruism, you ARE Christian..." " (which would get your
teacher laughed at in most of the countries in the world, or by anyone that
can think without moving thier lips)
and is talking and talking while being hostile about how WRONG everyone
else is and how RIGHT he is. To me that souds jsut like the Pags and Wics
this thread started out to troll.
Feral, Hindu stuff is way fun to read about (tho hard to keep all the names
straight) and the temples kick ass. SOmeday when you are bored, see if you
can find a Krisha temple near you (thanksgiving is a good time for this)
since they usually have restaurants attached that serve really yummy foods
for cheap. I LIKE religions that say laughter is prayer, sex is right and
good, but only if you do it well, and have "rules" that say that women can
and do have rights and responsibilities. ____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away.
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 23/7/2004 at 06:13 AM |
callei*grins* I'll have to do that... thought, on christmas, not
thanksgiving.. thanksgiving we go to the musilim masque and buy my
seasonings for the next year, some baklava, gyros, etc...
I can say... since pagan, even in the fucking dictionary is defined as
non-christian, ai can see how a discussion of christianity is in order,
because uuntill you know what TAHT is, you cannot figure out what it is
not...
THOUGH... the statements "that enough proof?" and
the bit about shaming myself have really stolen the will to discuss with
him... went from a discussion to a trolling session instantly... ____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
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Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
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Bane
Occasional Poster Posts: 28 Registered: 14/7/2004 Status: Offline
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posted on 24/7/2004 at 04:03 PM |
ok folks... i think i didn'T express myself as clearly as possible...
so i want to point out some things i wanted to say.
1. i don't think that the Christian church(es) equal Christianity.
( i read the bible quite some times and i don't care what the officials say
what the texts of the bible mean)
2. i don't care if i'm a pagan or what ever, if it helps the whole world in
a way.
3. ever heard about the passage of the bible about the "golden rule"?
4. guys/gals... i wasn't upset because of your beliefs, but because you
want to tell me, what MY religion is like.
THAT's the crucial point.
I never said i'm adherent to church, because church abused Christianity and
the bible to commit genocide, and propagated their own version of
"Christianity"(crusades, all pagans are evil and so on...)
@Domkitten: What is the ONE concept of Christianity?
Explain it to me if you know it better than i do...
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 24/7/2004 at 07:51 PM |
Bane: ok... this is where semantics come in... next time*grins* draw a line
for us... I define things, and that makes people mad, but it makes it CLEAR
as to what I mean...
bane: please get a citation for the golden rule you are refering to
We weren't telling you about your religion... we were referring to
christianity as a whole... the religion itself... Now... to be fair, by the
definition, "little christ" I have met two in my entire life...
and according to the book, the major thing is sarcrifice... I have a
problem with a diety that says I am a god of mercy and love go into thet
village and kill every man woman chold and beast of the field
____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
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Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 24/7/2004 at 08:46 PM |
Off topic, hate to break your roll feral, but there's something that I've
also noticed with the pagan/wiccan crowd. MOST of them are RPG's. There
seems to be a disportionate amount of RPG Wiccans/Pagans to Wiccan/Pagan
RPGs. As in most pagans I've met are MAD crazy RPG's, but not nearly as
many RPG's are wiccan/pagan. Freaks me out.
If anyone can explain that to me It'd be bitchin. Not because I have much
vested interest in EITHER (I was "that magic card torching bitch" in
highschool), and I feel the same about RPG's as I do pagans (generally
speaking), I'm just ultra curious today. Blame the fucking heat. ____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 24/7/2004 at 09:04 PM |
| that one is easy... wicca is a gateway religion... leading to real ones...
now... i have noticed that most VOCAL I AM PAGAN pagans... the ones that
you know are pagan... are really wiccans that are ashamed of themselves...
but they have a need to imagine themselves to be somethingmore... and as
such, they jump at the chance to Roleplay... see... I will admit it... I am
a gamer... but I am frightened by the "community" of gamers... I used to
work in a gaming store... and these people need help... WAY to into it... ____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
/>
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Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 25/7/2004 at 02:18 PM |
Ah ha. I get it now. And I know what you mean about being "frightened" by
the obsessive RPG community, because I avoid them AT ALL COSTS. The I AM A
RPG LOOKIT ME I"M A VAMPIRE/ELF/WARRIOR FOR REALLY and then LOOKIT HOW
UNCONVENTIONAL I AM I"M A WITCH DIDN"T YOU KNOW I"M A WITCH CUZ I PRACTICE
WITCHCRAFT are CONSTANTLY trying to suck your ass into their fucking
"world". And if you refuse to go quietly, you're ignorant, or "one of
them" *boo boo hiss*.
I can't handle roleplaying in GENERAL at all, but I can handle moderate
people who understand it's a fucking GAME and it in no way carries on over
to their REAL life. ____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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Bane
Occasional Poster Posts: 28 Registered: 14/7/2004 Status: Offline
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posted on 25/7/2004 at 02:25 PM |
*points to his RPG thread* what if we continue the discussion there?
so we won't disturb the others...
@bettie_x: i guess there are some guys that live out their RPG identity,
but i never met such guys at CONs...
btw... here in germany i guess the people differentiate really strong
between game and reality... don't know why, but that's my experience.
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