@ferraluce: that's right... but you've got to start at a point...
and btw. i suppose there should be none of that new age crap(sorry if i use
swear words) taught at school...
there is NONE written record of those religions mentioned (prove the
opposite)
individualism is not developed in school btw...
confessionate schooling is not mandatory... you might choose ethics
(which involves philosophy)
Bhuddism is NOT a religion...
Ok.. prove the opposite...
new age is not wicca, and is not pagan... BUT utilising your definitions
we will proceed...
First off... religion : a)A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on
the teachings of a spiritual leader, or b)A cause, principle, or activity
pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion
NOW... we will proceed with those two definitions... Here on shmeng...
stating an opinion like "Bhuddism is NOT a religion" is an invalid
statement UNTIL you provide proof to back up the statement... at this
point, unless you can provide proof of your statements, you make yourself
look like a moron. As we say here, put the fuck up, or shut the fuck
up...
Budhism... I am not sure how you justify your statement that it is not a
religion... but what are the criteria for it being a religion within the
context of this conversation. Let us see... documentation of history,
religious texts?
Budhism is documented as far back in history as 528 bc and they have a
religious book called the
tipitaka(http://www.accesstoinsight.org/canon/)
Asatru documented in the 10th century ad... they have a book, the
havamal
Scottish witchcraft: 1563... this one is a familial religion... therefore
there are few texts, but it is documented. (celtic witchcraft, one of the
foundations of modern wicca)
Will you deny the polytheism of the Romans and Greeks? Worship of them
continues today (I am a worshipper of Eris)
Native american beliefs were documented 200+ years ago... a rich oral
tradition.
Shinto: 500 bc... it, AND budhism are now and have been, the national
religion of japan since before christ was born... AND there are texts...
These two religions walk hand in hand.... one fulfilling one set of needs
and the second, another.
Wicca is based on the beliefs of people past. new age, while mislead has a
firm foundation in REAL religions... I have covered many of the pagan
religions... which are older than yours in many cases, and also NOT
wicca... dismissing them out of hand is a foolish thing to do... doing so
while challenging me to obtain proof is just plain dumb... bring proof and
citations to the table or go sit at the kiddie table...
____________________ The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
Xaoswolf
Fanatic
Posts: 463 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 21/7/2004 at 10:12 PM
Feral, you know as well as I that all those religions you just talked about
were made up based on the prizes in cracker jack boxes.
As for public schools, well, I have never been a fan of the education
recieved there. Which is why I am a fan of the tax credit for those that
want to go to private schools, and for reforms on private school spending.
I would rather have gotten some new books, or at least better carpet, than
have my schools football team get more uniforms, or for the basketball
coaches to go to a seminar at several thousand a pop...
____________________ Sometimes I dream about dinosaurs shopping for cargo shorts at the Gap.
Does that make me a bad person?
____________________ The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
Bane
Occasional Poster
Posts: 28 Registered: 14/7/2004 Status: Offline
posted on 22/7/2004 at 07:05 PM
Ferraluce: There is no god involved in Bhuddism.(btw. there are two
mainstreams in Bhuddism you didn'T mention...)
Bhuddism has a spiritual leader, but that DOES NOT define religion.
as webster.com states, religion is a "service and worship of God or the
supernatural".
So Bhuddism is not a religion in the meaning of the word itself. It did not
say it can't be extended in the meaning that it CAN be religion(for the
purpose of believing in)
uhm... just because Lovecraft states that there are Great Old ones, does
not make them real gods i guess, or do you view them as gods, just because
they are mentioned by him?
Britannica.com entry for "Wicca":
"Modern Western witchcraft movement."
well, if someone wants to believe in re-animated religions, so be it.
Got no problem with that.
uhm... worship of greek antheons may continue... well... but i don'T think
it's originally based, because there are no more priests who learned it in
succesion from another priest... (correct me if i'm wrong)
this stuff seems to me like it'S made up by some guys/gals/whatever who
wanted to invent some kind of religion that seems to be "original" but to
me that just looks like pure
Discordianism(http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/disc.html)...
sorry for that...
btw. Shinto does NOT have a book like the Christianism has in the Bible.
and it has been abolished as state religion some time ago... ^^
(google.com)
btw...
The Hávamál *lol* has AFAIK nothing to do with buddhism but is part of the
Edda and a base for norse beliefs...
(http://www.evindale.com/starkad/havamal.html)
(found via using
http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&ie=UTF-8&q=Asatru+havamal&met
a=)
Enough proof?
Want more chances to disgrace yourself?
btw. if you think you can claim that your incorrect opinion is a definition
of a term... think about WHO should sit at the kiddie table ;-)
Bane... disgraced myself? Ummm ok... there was no flaming here... and if
you are attempting such, you have failed heinously... let us discuss, not
be assinine...
Websters dictionary was written for and by teh church of england...a
christian dictionary (as evidenced by capitalisation of the word god) is
hardly a fitting source for a discussion on alternative religions...
religion is defined in many sources as a set of beliefs, values, and
practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader...
god is not necessary for a religion... and buddhism believes in the
supernatural, the power of the universe is within...
the anabaptist church annointed by saint peter does not exist anymore... by
your reasoning, no priests trained by other priests down the line...
christianity is not a religion either...
No shit the havamal has nothing to do with budhism... the reference was to
the asatru... learn to read...
lastly... budhism, and shinto are two sides of the same coin... different
aspects of the same beliefs... the tipitaka applies... also... just
because there is no ONE book... does not mean there are no texts...
your close mindedness in stating that one must worship a god, makes you
ignore the obvious...
____________________ The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Bane: no offense... but a definition can be intrinsic to understanding when
one is adding a diety to the equation... small word, big ramifications...
sometimes, semantics is important...
damn typos
[Edited on 7/23/2004 by feralucce]
____________________ The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
/>
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
Bane
Occasional Poster
Posts: 28 Registered: 14/7/2004 Status: Offline
posted on 24/7/2004 at 04:19 PM
@ferraluce: Ok... partially you're right...
but...
i didn't mention Webster's Dictionary in my last post.(can't find any
reference to it within my post)
"Asatru documented in the 10th century ad... they have a book, the
havamal"
ok.. maybe i misunderstood you... what does the Havamal has to do with
Asatru? *confused*
(as far as i grasped this comment... in this syntactic constellation it
would have meant that the Bhuddists have a book , the Havamal, but that's
wrong..)
Ok Folks... i will cool down on the matter... I'm sorry that i offended
you...
I'm sometimes a bit rash if it comes to religions and stuff. Sorry for
that...
1 a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b
(1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment
or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes,
beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : CONSCIENTIOUSNESS
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and
faith
your own source prooves my point...
[Edited on 7/25/2004 by feralucce]
____________________ The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
/>
No it's actually about an obsessive relationship, but the phrase IS
southern for losing your temperment.
____________________ Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
Bane
Occasional Poster
Posts: 28 Registered: 14/7/2004 Status: Offline
posted on 25/7/2004 at 02:40 PM
@Ferraluce: I DID NOT mention webster... i mentioned
BRITANNICA.COM...(couldn't find even one reference to WEBSTER.COM)
So you can't bite me using a source that I DID NOT PROVIDE ... ;-)
really... read my post where i gave some links... I did not quote
webster...
*pedantic*
"Budhism is documented as far back in history as 528 bc and they have a
religious book called the
tipitaka(http://www.accesstoinsight.org/canon/)
Asatru documented in the 10th century ad... they have a book, the havamal"
I thought you meant Bhuddists because you missed a full stop...I know what
the Edda is...
"Ferraluce: There is no god involved in Bhuddism.(btw. there are two
mainstreams in Bhuddism you didn'T mention...)
Bhuddism has a spiritual leader, but that DOES NOT define religion.
as
webster.com --- RIGHT FUCKING HERE... there it is... right the fuck here...
in the middle fo the first paragraph... RIGHT THE FUCK HERE
states, religion is a "service and worship of God or the supernatural".
[Edited on 7/26/2004 by feralucce]
____________________ The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
/>
/>
/>
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
Bane
Occasional Poster
Posts: 28 Registered: 14/7/2004 Status: Offline
posted on 27/7/2004 at 07:08 AM
ok... but one quote to hang your chain of evidence upon is very very
thin...
Abbadon
Fanatic
Posts: 499 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 27/7/2004 at 07:15 AM
Suppose, hypothetically, and remember I said that, that God exists. And you
knew that people who don't believe in God were going to hell. And you were
a nice person. Wouldn't you want everybody else to believe in God so they
didn't all have to go to hell? You be a bastard if you didn't. So give us
poor priests a break, would you?! What priests say could just be right you
know. You have no proof either way, so why are you so strongly against
it?
BB.
Abbadon
____________________ Light is changing to shadow, and casting a shroud over all we have known.
BANE: no offense, but a) you ignored that even in the same fucking source
it states "a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and
faith" which supports my view... I was not "hanging my argument" on one
source I was framing a point... but you chose to make it about " i DID NOT
CITE THAT SOURCE." making it a fuckin issue... I am through responding to
you as this really, is a waste of my time...
____________________ The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
/>
/>
/>
/>
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
Schizo
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 897 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 27/7/2004 at 02:45 PM
Bane : Buddhism not a religion. "New Age" religions not documented in
past. Prove the opposite.
Feral : Religion = set of beliefs based on leading of religious teacher,
cause pursued with zeal and devotion. Buddhism from 528 BC w/ religious
book - Tipitaka. Asatru from 1000 AD w/ religious book - Havamal.
Scottish witchcraft, 1563 AD, familial records. Polytheism of Romans +
Greeks well documented. Native American religions 200 yrs. +, oral
traditions. Shinto 500 BC, with Buddhism national religions of Japan since
before Christ.
Bane : No god in Buddhism, therefore not religion. Webster.com - service
or worship of god or supernatural. No continuing priesthood for Greek
Pantheons. Shinto no longer national religion of Japan. Havamal has
nothing to do with Buddhism.
Feral : Websters written by Church of England, therefore biased. Buddhism
based on supernatural. St. Peter's original church no longer exists, so
Christianity in same boat as Greek mythology. Havamal - ASATRU, not
BUDDHISM! Buddhism + Shinto both under Tipitaka. Definition of terms
important to discussion.
Bane : No reference to Websters in last post. Did not understand Asatru
reference.
Feral : Websters.com = Websters dictionary. Definition from WEBSTERS
siting religion as cause held to with ardor and faith.
Bane : Did not mention Websters, mentioned Brittanica.
Feral : Quotes Bane's post mentioning Websters.
Bane : Your argument is weak if you hang it on one post (Websters
dictionary)
Feral : You ignored the part of your own source that contradicted your
argument, you chose to make the argument about the Webster's quote.
Bane - entire argument based on partially quoted Webster's definition of
religion needing a god, throwing out religions for reasons that would
disqualify Christianity, and misunderstanding part of Feral's post. Also
apparently cannot remember his own sources, even when they are right there
to read.
Feral - bases argument on complete definitions (even the complete Webster's
definition), and well-researched examples of "New Age" religions that have
been documented in the past.
Also, Bane seems to mistake Feral for a Wiccan, even though he clearly
stated he was a follower of Eris, further enforcing the impression he gives
of being unable to read.
Winner, Feral.
And Bane can go sit at the kiddie table.
[Edited on 7/28/2004 by Schizo]
____________________ "You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the
dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest of
girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"