I can't beleive this....I thought they STOPPED making biggots like
this.....I mean the thought of actually banning a group of people is just
beyond idiocy!!!!!!
____________________ "It is a fool's prerogative to utter truths that no one else will speak." ~
The Sandman, Dream Country
____________________ Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away.
Zero
Fanatic
Posts: 459 Registered: 15/2/2004 Status: Offline
posted on 18/3/2004 at 07:33 PM
I had no Idea that god hated crustaceans......
Redlobster is evil......EVIL I TELL YE...EEEEVVVVIIIILLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!
____________________ "It is a fool's prerogative to utter truths that no one else will speak."
~
The Sandman, Dream Country
Schizo
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 897 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 19/3/2004 at 04:27 AM
Oh. God. Don't laugh. Please don't laugh. Please!!!
It sounds funny to you, but that little joke of a page is just a slight
exaggeration of HOW I GREW UP!!! I TOLD you I grew up in a near-cult!
I lived in southern coastal Maine for 12 years - 12 FUCKING YEARS and
during that time I never ONCE tasted lobster! I didn't have my first bite
of lobster until I was 20 or 21 and I went out with my best friend's
mother-in-law! When I was a kid, we ate beef bacon! I had never had a ham
sandwich! I had to forge my mom's signature to eat a raw oyster in 9th
grade science class! Shellfish is fucking unclean! Don't you understand?
Don't laugh about it, because people really do live that way!
I hear people say, if you're going to follow the laws against homosexuality
in the Old Testament, then follow the other laws! And they say it like
that proves that you can't. And yeah, we didn't sacrifice animals or
execute whores, but when you come down to it, those were national laws, not
personal ones. The national leaders were supposed to sacrifice and
execute, not the common man. And every single one of those nitpicking
little personal laws we had to keep! You weren't even allowed to come back
to church after having a baby until the proper Biblical amount of time had
passed, and it was longer for having a girl than for having a boy! Plus we
kept the Sabbath from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday, plus the dietary
laws, etc. etc. I challenge you to come up with any ridiculous little law
that could possibly apply (short of pooping laws, yes, there are pooping
laws made obsolete by modern sanitation, and leprosy laws, that we have yet
to need to deal with) that my "church" did not enforce!
I lived this way for 21 years!
I know it sounds funny, that webpage was funny, but it's not as far-fetched
as it seems. Damn, I'm so glad I'm out of there.
____________________ "You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the
dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest of
girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"
Zero
Fanatic
Posts: 459 Registered: 15/2/2004 Status: Offline
posted on 19/3/2004 at 06:59 AM
I'm sorry schizo, if I had known of you situation before hand I wouldn't
have been so quick to laugh.....I guess I got lucky. My mother didn't start
getting into the church until after I was basically through being
raised.....But every sunday when my family is together we all have a big
religious discussion. Glad you escaped.
____________________ "It is a fool's prerogative to utter truths that no one else will
speak."
~
The Sandman, Dream Country
callei
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 19/3/2004 at 07:57 AM
i know this sounds dumb of me, so please forgive the question.
how can that guy have died for other people's sins and made a new compact
thingy between god and men but have left all the old laws in place. it just
seems like if he died to re-write all the rules (and that is what the book
says in most versions i have seen) he re-wrote all the rules, and it is
rude or dumb to try to follow the old rules since that makes his act of
being nailed to a tree meaningless. its sort of like rejecting him and
asking his dad to pretend that all that forgiveness and stuff never
happened.
____________________ Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away.
RavensSoul
Member
Posts: 63 Registered: 27/3/2003 Status: Offline
posted on 19/3/2004 at 08:05 AM
The whole ban against gay marriage thing pisses me off to no end. I'm not
gay, so (as of right now) it does not directly affect me, but as one of you
all said earlier in the forum, it's only a matter of time until something
else changes and it is me who is the person being denied my rights. I don't
think it's the place of the government to tell someone that they can or
cannot be married to the person they love and are in love with. If they can
make an ammendment stating that two men cannot marry, and two women cannot
marry, whats to stop them from later deciding that racially mixed marriages
are illegal. Those racist hick bastards that are supposedly 'running' our
country could easily say, "hey, it pisses me off to see a white woman with
a black man." and then they could start a movement to outlaw that. If they
start banning marriage rights on the basis of popular belief, then whats to
stop a can of worms from being opened and even more marriage rights be
taken away because the people involved don't meet the standards our nation
has set for them.
It's bullshit that Bush is pushing his narrow-minded Christian bible
thumping beliefs on people who don't want them and it's bullshit that the
homophobes and pepple in office with him are going along with it. It's not
anyone's business except for the people who want to be united.
Hmm, that was kinda rambling. Hopefully I made a point. I get angry and
think faster than i type. ...
Hopefully Bush's stupid ass gets knocked out of office this coming
election, or maybe he'll just choke on another pretzel. What a loser.
____________________ In my eyes, to be human is not to be able to live and die, but it is to
feel pain, love, happiness, and all other things that keep our hearts from
freezing over into the bloody ice that distinguishes man from the beasts of
night.
Meranda_Jade
Fanatic
Posts: 511 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 19/3/2004 at 08:13 AM
Actually, most Christians believe that the whole dying for the sins thing
meant that most of the old laws were no longer valid. There's even a quote
somewhere they use... something about what goes into the body doesn't make
you bad, what comes out of it does... can't remember the exact one, and I'm
too lazy to go look it up... What Schizo's family practice, it sounds like,
is a weird form of Judaism, with the whole dead guy on a stick thing added
in...
Basically the christians of different sects just pick and choose what they
want to believe in, whatever will make them feel the most "holier than
thou". Homosexuality, because it brings some people pleasure, is one of
those things they can feel really holier than thou about and they do all
they can to deny anyone who is gay any kind of humanity.
____________________
callei
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 19/3/2004 at 09:09 AM
that is where i get the most confused. I have trouble remembering to call
them christian if they are jewish and vice versa. and it gets even more
confused when you mix suni, shia and shiite and all the rest.
____________________ Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and
vampires
/>
away.
this is crude... but the way the meds are effecting my digestion... if what
comes out of m body makes me evil, then I AM SOOO SCREWED...
Thing is... Jesus said : I come not to destroy the law, but to fulfil it.
It also talks about intnent SOOOO.... if you attempt to follow the laws but
fail... it is better than if you jus ignore thm and count on jesus...
I personally won't eat a hotdog bun on tuesday...
Feral
____________________ The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
well... I have a point that some might find amusing... marriage is not
outlined in the constitution.. as such all of them are unconstitutional...
second... gay marriage laws would make people happy, and as such are
unconstitutional. all american citizens have the right to the PURSUIT of
happiness... if you reach it... you are outside of your rights...
Feral
____________________ The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
Sticupus
Fanatic
Posts: 254 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 19/3/2004 at 09:10 PM
"That makes alot of sense to me...marriage is a religious ritual....and I
do think the church has a right to turn a way any groups of people who
don't meat certain critiria...but when it comes to state and government I
believe the state should give equal rights to gays....they could do what
they always do.....call it by a different name (instead of marriage) and
give them the same benefits..that sounds like a fair compromise....and if
the church won't partnership them then the state should."
Sorry Zero, but you're wrong and you are buying into television cliches and
propoganda. There are plenty of churches that will preform a gay marriage
but none of them are legally valid under the state as a regular marriage
usually would be. Not all marriages are religiously based. Not all marriges
happen in a church or temple. A marriage from the state is a legal
contract, and if you want to get married, you have to sign marriage papers.
The contract comes with a whole spread of marriage benifits. If you want
the religious ritual, that's something extra you do on your own. If you do
your research, you'll find that "civil unions" (some benifits of marriages
for gays) are seperate and unequal. They are also only available in a few
states (like 5 I think) and invalid if you live anywhere else. This new
ammendment will also destroy the possiblity of more states to make civil
unions, as it would make them illegal, and invalidate the civil unions
regardless of what the states themselves decided on. It will be a FEDERAL
ammendment. That means nation-wide, and no one is special under any
circumstances. Calling it marriage is also a thing of respect for it.
You're more than likely not planning on being in a long term gay
relationship, so you probably don't see the condescending value of
"...call[ing] it by a different name (instead of marriage)"
There used to be a time where different races couldn't get marriage
contracts from the state. This is very much like that situation and similar
people tried to make similar moves.
____________________ The OBOLISK is Divine.
Anya
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 19/3/2004 at 09:33 PM
Feral: Hahaha. That actually reminds me of my stepdad suggesting that the
Gay Marriage ban is referring to the fact that no one is able to pursue a
happy marriage anymore. He's straight as they get, but he thinks that
Bush is playing politics with the whole entire issue, which I fully agree
on. I find it disgusting and on top of it all, do not think he has the
right to tell someone how to run their life.
As far as women who are against it for "Biblical" reasons, I'll use their
book on them any day. In fact, I'll send them home in tears for the fact
that their Bible says that they have no rights either. *manical laugh*
*shrugs* Only if they want to use that Bible preaching...which a lot of
them do. I'll also point out that the Old Testament is even more
restrictive than Paul on their rights.
Feeling sado-masochistic today...
[Edited on 3/20/2004 by Anya]
Schizo
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 897 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 21/3/2004 at 07:55 AM
Oh, I'm not offended, I'm just letting you know that it's not as farfetched
as it sounds.
And yes, my old church was really into Judaism. In fact, my parents are up
here for the weekend to attend the Feast of Passover at their church
center. Yes, I know it's not the exact same time that the Jews do it, but
close enough. They celebrate the other two major feasts, too.
I'm not sure why they're so into the whole Jewish thing. It made so much
sense when I was in it, but now I just don't get it.
I do miss keeping the Sabbath. It was nice to have an excuse to take a
whole day off every week. And the meeting involved was always nice and low
key, with a lot of singing and often candles and the fireplace lit, and
everyone saying things that they were thankful for that happened that week.
And after, "Sabbath Treat", which traditionally was the most incredible
home-made cinnamon rolls you've ever tasted. Mmmm, my mouth is watering
just thinking about it. If my life ever gets to the point that I have the
time and energy for it, I'd like to start Sabbath rituals of my own, with
my personal twist to them, of course!
From all I've heard, all the excuses they have for the anti-gay marriage
amendment are so bogus, like how heterosexual marriage is best for kids
(not all marriages produce children, not all children come from marriages,
and having heterosexual parents doesn't mean that you have loving, caring
parents that won't beat you up. Actually, homosexuals would be less likely
to abuse a child, since most likely the child would have to be adopted, and
adoptive parents are much more carefully screened than natural parents.),
and how supposedly homosexuals are so promiscuous, which would violate the
sanctity of marriage (heterosexuals are also very promiscuous, even in
marriage, although one hopes that in the majority of marriages, hetero or
homo, the parties involved would enter the contract with at least an
intention of faithfulness. Even say that homosexuals are in general more
promiscuous. Which I don't for a moment believe. These would not
generally be the ones who would be wanting marriage, but rather, the
"rare", committed ones.)
The only other reason I've heard is the religious one. Which should not be
a basis for a constitutional amendment, or any other law in America.
____________________ "You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the
dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest
of
girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"
callei
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 21/3/2004 at 09:04 AM
this is actually another prime reason "against" gay marraige. to remove or
restrict the transfer of wealth and goods from one gay person to another.
Might seem small to you, but most of the laws about marriage are about the
possession and money of those married individuals. Not about kids, not
about fidelity, not about kids.
my dad taught me a game called "follow the money". It is a game you play
with politics, instead of dice. you try to see where the biggest flows of
money are from one player to another. you try to figure out who it would
cost and who it would benefit.
Banning gay marriage keeps those divorces out of an already over crowded
court system. banning gay marriages mean that lawyers get alot more of the
money from gay people for writing up better and more careful wills, even
for the average working class gay couple. the court money comes out of
taxes, which the babyboomers want to spend on extending thier lives. the
lawyers get paid by the gay people themselves.
its not about religion or god, i think. Its about not sharing the weath and
getting more money out of the poor and middle class.
____________________ Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and
vampires
/>
away.
Schizo
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 897 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 21/3/2004 at 09:31 AM
So the main (and silent) reason is money money money. The scheme is easier
to sell to the religious right, because of the already-instilled anti-gay
prejudice. The other, and far more contrived reasons are there to try to
hush the pro-gay people who cry foul on the religious issue. In fact, the
whole religious controversy involved serves very well as a smoke screen for
the real reasons, causing people to not bother to dig deeper. Besides,
it's easier to seem noble standing up for your morals (even to people who
don't agree) than just plain old sordid money-grubbing.
Does this sound accurate?
____________________ "You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and
the
/>
dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest
of
girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"
callei
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 21/3/2004 at 09:40 AM
it is certainly another point of view and one that doesnt get talked about
very much in the whole debate. i lean more to Mr. Bush Jr. as being insane,
but this arguement bares looking at. its also hard to find a way to make
gay marriage pay the govt and pay other people.
we live in a capatalist nation so we have to acknowledge that money/trade
is involved in al the laws and especially the propaganda out there. and if
you try to find the money flows in gay marriage as compared to gay singles
you come up with things like "medicare", "pension plans", death, "social
security", and "donations" as being the biggest money groupings (where
there is money pooling up for use by someone or something)
____________________ Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and
I have no problem seeing bush start world war three just to fulfill his
"prophetic" speaking... this is just another symptom of it... if he is
elected again... I am willing to lay odds on this issue getting MORE
retarded and seeing him declare martial law right before the end of his
last term...
Feral
____________________ The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
callei
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 21/3/2004 at 01:34 PM
this is way off topic but what the hell its sunday.
I wonder if G jr. is closing down Hubble because it is showing that, rather
than being in its last days, the universe is still expanding and growing.
that idea certainly doesnt fit the revisionist/doom's day idea. Not that i
am opposed to going to Mars, dont get me wrong. the mars project would be
all internal to the US, while we share Hubble with the world, and that also
fits the "us against them" mentality.
Or it could be all that "dark matter" that is worrying the poor boy.
____________________ Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and
vampires
/>
away.
Zero
Fanatic
Posts: 459 Registered: 15/2/2004 Status: Offline
posted on 21/3/2004 at 03:07 PM
Personaly I think every thing bush does he does to keep our minds off of
important issues, that could effect his re-election....but then again it
also looks as if he's trying to secure the democrats win......or maybe I
could be wrong and he's not an evil austin powers type megalomaniacle
supervillain.....but an idiot.....I think I'm gonna go with idiot...
____________________ "It is a fool's prerogative to utter truths that no one else will
speak."