callei
Extreme Fanatic   Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 3/3/2004 at 10:31 AM |
England is apparently accepting czech residenta aliens into thier country
to work and stay and after 4 years to get citizenship. so it is faster and
easy to become a brit or to live nad work there if you go to prague first.
all hail the weird new laws of the EU and its satalites ____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away.
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 3/3/2004 at 11:17 AM |
LOL... sounds like a plan... prague then england
____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
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Psychopixi
Fanatic   Posts: 376 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 3/3/2004 at 12:17 PM |
quote:
i think whales sounds
great
Yeah, but you might get a bit wet... living on a whale an' all... ____________________
Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life.
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Meranda_Jade
Fanatic  Posts: 511 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 3/3/2004 at 02:23 PM |
| When Princess Di died, my niece was talking about it, (I can't remember how
old she was but I think it was before kindergarten) and she said, "And you
know, she was a REAL princess... the Princess of the Whales." ____________________
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Meranda_Jade
Fanatic Posts: 511 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 3/3/2004 at 02:24 PM |
| Don't know about living in Britian.. I heard they tax everything from the
doorknobs down... literally... ____________________
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callei
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 3/3/2004 at 02:33 PM |
| true, but then so do we. at least we do in all the states a person would
want to live in. ____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away.
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Psychopixi
Fanatic Posts: 376 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 3/3/2004 at 02:53 PM |
| UK is more expensive than America, AFAIK, but then we have free health care
on the NHS, and grants and stuff for university, which I don't think
America has (does it?) ____________________
Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life.
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Anya
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 3/3/2004 at 10:07 PM |
The US has the free grant stuff, depending on what you qualify for. People
can apply for scholarships and I'm sure there's financial aid for certain
groups.
As far as taxes go, the middle class pays the most taxes here since rich
people abuse corporate loopholes and most poor people get more than they
pay in [not to mention easier access to Healthcare]. If you REALLY want to
get babied here, be Hispanic with many kids - each kid qualifies for 500
dollars a year and if you're poor, you get an additional tax break that
gets you more than you pay in. Now I'm not picking on the Hispanics, but
am frustrated that there's reverse-discrimination going on here (quotas are
suppposedly illegal, by the way  ). Unfortunately, no
one is going to do anything about it for all politicians involved are too
busy kissing their ass trying to get the Latino vote.
On the other hand, there's even some poor people (who likely need it more)
getting screwed by the Wellfare system because there's a lot of unnecessary
bums sitting on it...
Our tax system is set where the rich pay the most taxes, but they have a
lot of corporate loopholes that no one is willing to close, which allows
them to go without paying any taxes.
I just figure that time will heal things here...I still like it here than
most places...at least until Donald Rumsfeld is President.
[Edited on 3/4/2004 by Anya]
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IamSquid
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 658 Registered: 27/5/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 3/3/2004 at 10:56 PM |
I've tried moving to three different European counries in the past 5 years
and each time ran into difficulties. The Republic of Ireland denied mee
citizenship and MY SISTER AND BOTH OF MY PARENTS ARE IRISH CITIZENS!!!
This is all because a nasty little that sounds something like "hepetitis"
gets mee screened out. It doesn't matter that the form of hepetitis I have
is not viral and therefore non-communicable, if the book says not to let
anyone in with hepetitis, I get screwed.
Pix, I would LOVE to live in the UK if yoo know of any way I can make it,
by all means, let mee know. ____________________
i wanted to die, and then it progressed into wanting everyone else to
die so i could watch, and then me die.
-ickgirl
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callei
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 4/3/2004 at 04:07 PM |
| anya you really need to read some hard data and not just gossip. please
please please go do some real research on the various aid programs out
there and then tell me that hispanics are getting too much money and taking
it away from what white people? and look at the real costs of living before
you say the so called middle class has it the worst. the middle class
extends from something like 15k a year to 250k a year. please please please
stop being such a fool or at least spouting such foolishness here. ____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and
vampires
/>
away.
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Kira
Member   Posts: 149 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 4/3/2004 at 07:30 PM |
quote:
most poor people get more
than they pay in [not to mention easier access to Healthcare]. If you
REALLY want to get babied here, be Hispanic with many kids - each kid
qualifies for 500 dollars a year and if you're poor, you get an additional
tax break that gets you more than you pay in.
Woah, watch it there. Poor people get more than they pay in? I dunno when
the last time you checked the national poverty level was, but here's a
clue. For a single person: $9,573 a year. Less if you're under 65. For a
family of 4 with 2 dependent children: $18,660. If you make more than that
you are officially "out of poverty" and not poor. Where are they getting
back anything? Tax breaks? Food stamps? Assisted housing? Shit, I should
hope they get something...considering that living in an apartment with $500
a month rent would eat up 1/3 of your family's income. Not to mention food,
clothing, and health care. Also, that family wage is suspiciously close to
what 2 people working 40 hours a week at the federal minimum wage ($5.15 an
hour) earn in a year. (from
http://www.census.gov/hhes/poverty/threshld/thresh03.html)
It's basic economics to understand why someone who makes such little income
could not contribute like someone raking in a sustainable income. Not to
mention that the upper 1/5 of mean income households (making more than
$60,000 a year in the late 1960's) has had a steady increase in income up
through the 90's, while the lower 4/5 average (less than $40,000 a year)
has flatlined...for 40 years!(1) Yep, them there poor people should be
thankful for all they get back! Meanwhile the upper middle class is
laughing all the way to the bank.
I'm not even going to get started on the Hispanics thing.
1. U.S. Bureau of the Census, Current Population Reports, Series P60-183,
Studies in the Distribution of Income, U.S.Government Printing Office,
Washington, D.C. 1992 ____________________
Wind me up and make me crawl to you, tie me up until I call to you.
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Anya
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 4/3/2004 at 08:00 PM |
I wasn't trying to pick on Hispanics in general, but am picking on how
there are still quotas here. Anyway, let me dig out the source that I
found that information on.
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 4/3/2004 at 08:19 PM |
| ACTUALLY... he welfare system does not discriminate based on race... white
momma with no income and 5 children gets same amount as black or hispanic
momma with 5... ____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
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Anya
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 4/3/2004 at 09:16 PM |
http://www.financeprojectinfo.org/mww/earned.asp
http://www.cbpp.org/3-3-03sfp.htm
Poor people only need to pay 10% of their income and with children, they
get back more than they put in. On top of that, they also get easier
access to health care and the other goodies you mentioned.
I didn't say that Welfare always used quotas (I would assume at first, but
there's a reason why there's "poor white trash"), but I know that there's
some in Social Security. I have a friend's father who gets five hundred a
month for having chronic lung disease and can barely help himself anymore,
but a Hispanic next door has a working family, two children, and gets
quadrupled the amount of Social Security (they were not in the US for even
as long). He also had trouble getting Medical Care for his disabled father
for the lady simply told him, "You're not Hispanic." So yes, there are
still quotas to an extent.
As I said before, I'm not trying to pick on Hispanics in general, but it's
an example of how there's still quotas in America (and discrimination
against minorities in some Southern places, as well). I do not appreciate
the immigration issues, of course, but I know that there's many who earned
their place here.
I personally do not understand why someone would need to jump on the
Welfare wagon so quickly, though. My Econ teacher's family had a single
mother with two children who were classified as poor, but she did not need
to get on Welfare at all and obviously, they were able to rise in class
(otherwise I'd not have an Econ. teacher).
If no one believes me when I say that they get back more than they pay in,
there's one of the sources. We also know that they get other little
benefits for they're classified as poor. Though some will say otherwise,
we live in a place where almost anyone can rise in class if they work
REALLY, really hard. I didn't rely on gossip on those past posts.
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Kira
Member Posts: 149 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 4/3/2004 at 11:10 PM |
I'm confused. It sounds like you're complaining that poor people have it
soooo easy due to all these luxurious programs and tax cuts, then post 2
websites that talk about how great the EITC is?
From the first site: "The money a poor working family gets back via the
credit can bring their total income to above the poverty level, especially
when combined with the cash value of food stamps."
It sounds like the point is not to get back more than was put in, but to
raise the living standards of the working poor (notice I said *working*) to
the already unreasonably low poverty level. And I have yet to figure out
what the EITC has to do with race or quotas.
Otherwise, you say you're not relying on rumors, yet both of your
supporting examples read like "my brother's friend's cousin's uncle knows
someone who is a minority and lives off the government!" Those examples
can't be backed up (How do you know what the Hispanic family gets from
Social Security..do they put it on t-shirts or something?), and smack of
the grass seeming greener for someone else. If it's so easy, maybe you'll
get lucky and be re-incarnated as an impoverished Hispanic immigrant with a
bunch of kids someday.
Maybe it's not what you intended, but your posts come off as being less
about quotas and more about resenting poor people. ____________________
Wind me up and make me crawl to you, tie me up until I call to you.
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 5/3/2004 at 01:03 AM |
Anya: no offense... but I butst my ass... I toss 75 pound boxes of books
constantly... for 8 hours a day, 40 a week... and I make enough... to pay
my bills... no more... speaking from experience... you are wrong about
that... Before it was a difference of opinion, but I have seen that first
hand... you can work all you want, but unless you get LUCKY, you do not
rise in status... period.
Now... having been in a welfare family... the programs are fucked up... you
get enough to live on... barely... but if you TRY to work and get the money
to survive... you are penalised MORE than you make... ____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
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Psychopixi
Fanatic Posts: 376 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 5/3/2004 at 01:32 AM |
quote:
Now... having been in a
welfare family... the programs are fucked up... you get enough to live
on... barely... but if you TRY to work and get the money to survive... you
are penalised MORE than you make...
This holds true in the UK as well. You can be on the dole... no sorry,
we're being PC now; on Job Seekers Allowance, but it's a trap because
you're not likely to go into a high paying job straight from the dole, but
if you do get a job all your benefits are cut off - like child
benefits etc.. It works out that you get more money staying on the dole,
that actually trying to get a job... yet they won't pay you the dole unless
you can prove you are actively seeking a job... ____________________
Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life.
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Anya
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 5/3/2004 at 07:45 AM |
I never denied that the Welfare system is messed. If hearing a teacher's
experience is considered a "rumor", then I will re-evaluate my sources, see
where I falter, and apologise once I am fully proven of my wrong. There
are some people who were classified as poor at some point in their life and
they did not need any of the Social Programs out there. Maybe not all, but
enough to say that people can actually rise in their class...then again, as
you said, maybe luck has some to do with it.
In the area I live in, there are some people I think though that do not
need any support because I see them spending their money on alcohol other
than more important things. Those are the people that I think can try
getting a job and not sit on Welfare. All things in consideration, not all
people on Welfare are those bums. I know that there are some who work
their ass off (or are struggling to find a job) and those are usually the
ones I have respect for.
Psychopixi: That's how it's supposed to work here last I checked and it's
how it is written, but I am sure that there's loopholes. Even my Econ.
instructors point that out. To make it fair for those who are poor, there
are rich people who pull the loophole crap too. Why else would most of
those politicans want to "raise taxes" for the higher classes? They know
the loopholes.
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callei
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 5/3/2004 at 09:06 AM |
on a side note, the person that you know that is getting about 500 a month
is ony receiving federal aid and is a single perosn. the family of which
you speak is getting federal aid (caped at something like 650 no matter how
large the family is) and state aid because they for one reason ro another
we smart enough to apply for both.
the man getting the 500 can go and apply for state aid as well. in most
states this is between double and thriple the federal limit. and is where
you get the foodstamps and healthcare. the federal money is only that, a
bit of money.
and you cant have it both ways; if "they" are cheating the welfare system
by getting work under the table good for them or by somehow filing in some
way that they get "more than thier share", so what. i mean really so what.
a million or two extra spread out amoung some 20 or 30 thouand people a
year just means that every now and then they can have a small luxury lke
fresh meat, a movie rental, new shoes that will last more than one season,
or some hair dye. personally i dont begrudge them those "luxuries".
except for some extrordinary scams puled by bright rich people, the people
on welfare are at best "stealing" maybe a grand a year each. so in a family
of 4 or 5 that is what 200-250 a person a year? so 20 bucks a month is
"woohoo" money? enough to go to the movies with a friend or date once?
enough to order pizza? enough to buy a new pair of cheap shoes? enough to
by meat that isnt 30% or more fat and going green a few times a month?
gimma a fucking break.
and yah there is something called earned income credit. you get it if you
have kids and are working, as a way to help you stay working (paying taxes
on food, gas, clothes, etc). dont ever think that those people are getting
back more than they paid. they are paying (in most states) 4-6% of thier
income in some form of taxes because they have to spend every single dollar
they make. "rich" people that get to save money dont pay as much in "other"
taxes". so even people getting earned income credit are paying thier taxes.
and they are doing crap jobs and teaching thier kids (by example) to work.
thereby keeping the kids of welfare. i say give em even more money. and
give em good access to health care and more sick days and more vacation
days. that will cut down on the costs that come up later: crime from
unhappy kids, health problems from overwork and overstain, addiction costs
and alll that. so lets give em 2 weeks of vacation ( a thing that most
people that can recieve earned income credit never get) and 2 weeks of sick
leave (again not somehting they ever see) and more money, say an extra 200
a month.
what can they do with it? stop feeling quite so desperate, loney, broke, on
the edge, and over worked.
____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and
vampires
/>
away.
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callei
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 6/3/2004 at 10:29 AM |
fancy that idea
[Edited on 3/6/2004 by callei] ____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and
vampires
/>
away.
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