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Author: Subject: Worlds richest nation

Occasional Poster





Posts: 40
Registered: 10/12/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/1/2004 at 07:00 AM
Wasn't sure were to put this, but f**k it...
I've seen it said several places around the forum here that the US is the richest nation in the world, and frankly, I disagree.
The US ows money around the globe, especially to the UN and more than 12% of the population lives beneath the poverty line.
Norway on the other hand, have no debt, and no people beneath the poverty line.

So how can America be the richest nation in the world?

Largest yearly budget? Which usually go negative? Or because they bomb everybody who opposes US companies and/or economic interersts?

info from http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/


 

____________________
"There are no atheists in foxholes" is not an argument against atheists. It's an argument against foxholes.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 893
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/1/2004 at 11:53 AM
God I hate that factbook... (remembers loong afternoons at work, copying info one bit at a time into a database)

But seriously, the United States has a LOT of money. If we didn't, then the rest of the world wouldn't put up with the crap we do. In developing countries, the US is usually a major investor. For industrialized countries, the US is a major consumer. So screw with the US and you screw your economy. Without the US even launching one missile.

But if we start talking symbolically, about the US being rich in justice and freedom and democracy, then yeah, the US is a welfare recipient.

 

____________________
Piggy's got the Conch!

 

Fanatic




Posts: 344
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/1/2004 at 03:30 PM
It not that the US is the richest nation in the world. Its the fact that alot of the richest people in the world live in the US. As well as some of the welthiest companies in the world.

I guess comparitively the US is like most baby boomers with a credit card. We can buy things and look stinking ritch, but underneth we're in debt up to our eye balls.

Ironboots: Take a deep breath and remember what you learned in history class about the 60's... exhale.

 

____________________
co-worker: "Your gay!?"
myself: "Didn't you see my rainbow pin?"
co-worker: "I just thought you liked skettles."
-(yes, it actually happened to me)

 

Occasional Poster




Posts: 40
Registered: 10/12/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/1/2004 at 03:57 PM
Just to add to the bad points for the US. If Saudi Arabia decide to pull out their investmenst in the US the country and about every company in it will go bankrupt over night. And then you can ask yourself, which is the most powerfull? The US with it's military and economic power, or Saudi Arabia, who can remove all that power from them if they want to?

 

____________________
"There are no atheists in foxholes" is not an argument against atheists.
It's an argument against foxholes.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 759
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/1/2004 at 07:03 PM
IF Saudi decided to renig on its debts ( I assume that you mean the few families that "own" most of the money/power in Saudi) then it would bother Texas, 8 or 10 buildings in NY, and that is about it.

And yes i mean debts. they dont own much out right here, but they are making payments...

And they would loose the millions that we give them every year.

 

____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires away.

 

Fanatic




Posts: 463
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/1/2004 at 09:13 PM
It's not the fact thta the government makes money, it's the fact that our economy makes money. Our GDP is the largest int the world.

And as for people being in debt. I'm making a car payment and a student loan payment. That puts me in debt, however, the payments are managable, and in fact, I could probably pay more if I wanted and finish it earlier. Being in debt isn't a bad thing as long as you can manage it.

 

____________________
Sometimes I dream about dinosaurs shopping for cargo shorts at the Gap. Does that make me a bad person?

 

Occasional Poster




Posts: 40
Registered: 10/12/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/1/2004 at 09:21 PM
I wasn't talking about the people being in debt. People here are in debt as well. I was talking about the governement of the United States being in debt to other countries and the UN.
And even if you do have the largest GDP in the world, you countrys budgett never work. They allways end up negative.

 

____________________
"There are no atheists in foxholes" is not an argument against atheists. />
It's an argument against foxholes.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 1810
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 9/1/2004 at 12:37 AM
that is, honestly, only because we FORGAVE all the debts owed us AFTER WWII

 

____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.

Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist

 

Occasional Poster




Posts: 40
Registered: 10/12/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 9/1/2004 at 08:34 AM
fera: Are you thinking about the Marshall help? The US giving out loads of money to the countries of Europe if they accepted certain conditions about how their country was going to be run?
All taht money was to be paid back.
Norway have no debt beacause we've been making alot more money than we've spent the 30 or something years since we discovered oil in the North Sea.

 

____________________
"There are no atheists in foxholes" is not an argument against
atheists.
/>

It's an argument against foxholes.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 759
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 9/1/2004 at 08:57 AM
Grendie: Saudi is a KINGDOM, ie run by a few people that are related to each other directly and raised to the idea of having to run a country. So the debt of the nation is also very much the debt of a few people in thier case. In the United states, instead of "families" there are corporations. Those corporations are made up of family owned companies, workers, and stock holders. the key differences there are: More people have a say in where the money goes, including rival families, foreign investors, and the nouveax riche that buy thier way into these corporations; there is outside oversite, abet sloppy and corrupt, that says how those corporations can and cant spend thier money; and there is a method of sueing those corporations that involves outside parties.
There is also a small point that where Saudi is a united country, with a language, religion, and history, the "united states" do not share a language, a religion (im overlooking consumerism and "modernism"), or a history.
Another interesting difference is that leaders from the US dont vacation in the same places as the Saudi leaders do.

 

____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 656
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 9/1/2004 at 07:29 PM
Callei: That's interesting. A lot of conspirators here suggest that the Bush's go hunting all the time with the Saudi leaders when on vacation.

Come to think of it, though, while we have that debt, many (not all) countries have their own share of problems. Also, I personally believe that we can solve the oil problem by the Alaskan pipeline (though environmental issues could be in the way). I personally get tired of the anti-American attitude with a lot of people. Sure we made mistakes, but so did many other countries. Also, we're some of the bigger consumers. We don't have to be, though. We have the proper crops, animal stock, and resources to go on our own. And as Meranda Jade said in a post, we could just go to finding another source of energy and tell everyone else to shove it.

We have a history, just not much of one as the "United States" (only 200 years or so of some). Maybe the Native Americans had stories, though...



 

Fanatic




Posts: 246
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 13/1/2004 at 09:29 AM
even love isn't free anymore...

 

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Occasional Poster




Posts: 21
Registered: 10/1/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 13/1/2004 at 12:55 PM
Yeah you have a point there, Grendel. I mean come on, if you go to some of the largest, albeit richest, cities in the country, a fairly good percentage of the population is homeless. I think that we may be one of the richest countries in the world by monetary standards only. When it comes to brains, well, our nation's leaders are sort of lacking. I think we have a lot of money in this country, but our politicians just don't know how to budget it properly. The 'United States' started as a piece of crap, and it still is a piece of crap, really. Nobody respected this country when it began two-hundred-some-odd years ago, and nobody respects us now. Another way to look at it would be from a leadership standpoint. Bush's warmongering really turned a lot of our former allies against us. When Franklin Delano Roosevelt was in office, nobody liked us, but at least some of them humored us by at least respecting us. Bush has Saddam, you'd expect someone in the cabinet to just say "fuck it" and give up looking for Osama, but I guess not. Love isn't free of risk, travel isn't free of unnecessary security measures, and our nation's system isn't free of bugs.

 

____________________
Roses are red
Violets are blue
I'm schizophrenic
And I am too

 





Posts: 116
Registered: 14/4/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 13/1/2004 at 01:49 PM
a few "facts" to throw into this mix.

The bush family is a texas family, and has been, like many other families involved in the oil trade, been invited to special working parties by The Saudi royal family. That doesnt mean that they vacation together, that means that they had long meetings with each other.

The United States doesnt have 200 years of history. The parts of the country that became the United States at the start have some 300 years of "history". The more recent states have some 40 years of "history" (in terms of United States-ness) The United States Governement has 200 years of history. there is a difference.

If OPEC pulled its oil from the US, then we would buy it from other countries. We have done it before.

11 billion dollars of the marshall plan was given as grant money, not as loan money. Only 1 billion was given as loan money. norawy received some 250 million in "gimme" money and 200 million in low interest long term loans. This money was dumped into the European Economy over about 4 years.

The forgiving of debts was a seperate gift. Nearly 20 billion in debt was forgiven.

 

Occasional Poster




Posts: 21
Registered: 10/1/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 13/1/2004 at 01:55 PM
um..ok...thanks?

 

____________________
Roses are red

Violets are blue

I'm schizophrenic

And I am too

 

Occasional Poster




Posts: 40
Registered: 10/12/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 13/1/2004 at 10:49 PM
What is true about Bush + the Saudi's and the bin Laden family is that thay have a lot of stock in the same companies, as well as positions on the boards of several of those companies.

And I one of the Saudi's sat with Bush in the White House the first evening he was there after 9/11 (I would call that friendship)

 

____________________
"There are no atheists in foxholes" is not an argument against

atheists.

/>


It's an argument against foxholes.

 
 


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