We could always get a group of mindless people and set them down for a game
and see what happens ..... lol ... You might break that 2 by 4 with some of
those thick headed males out there
To be quite blunt, when it comes to "magic" I'll give it to you straight.
It's willpower with aromatherapy. It's stage setting, play acting, but all
the juju lies in that wad of meat knocking around between your ears. Don't
get me wrong, no matter what "religion" you adhere to, all the little
doodads come in handy. THere is no difference betwen "white/black" or good
and bad, as human nature itself is both, and if you're one of those "white
lighters' or big bad voodoo daddie sthen you're kidding yoruself. Its all
in your ability to accept what your eally really want or have ot do. The 3
rule is crap, it's for people that want to have excuses for not carrying
out the dirty work that they secrety are DYING to do. Ive fucked some shit
up in my time and did it come back on me? NOPE! you know why? Because I
WANTED it, I was PREPARED for it, and it HAD to be doen. Knockin someone
out of comision to either protect yourself or keep them from messing you up
isn't bad, it's smart. Period. Whether you do it with words, willpower,
or physically. The mind is the most important and least understod part of
our world, and it's also the most underestmiated. All the science in the
world won't take it apart and give it sterile and unpronouncalbe names and
functions, it's up to the person to discover and USE it. A scaple can make
it bleed, but the scalpel cannot understand.
You can fight debilitating diseases with bio feedback and cheesy positive
thinking.
You can train yourself into a coma and last for days without food or
water.
You can shut your body off and die.
You can loose weight or gain weight.
You can cause your own catastropic disasters ad uncharted succeses.
You can cause yourself to halucinate by merely being TOLD you have injestd
a drug.
Is it magic? no, it's YOU. That is wher it all happens. "magic" begins
and ends betwen your ears.
Now, I hope i've made some sense, and I'm leaving now to do a mexican hat
dance around my shotglass. Enlightenment is found at the bottome of a
botle of good booze friends, take my workd for it.
____________________ Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
Anya
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 7/8/2003 at 11:03 AM
A lot of the books I've read always stated the thing that you have to work
on what you want to achieve, as well. Basically cannot say "shazam!" and
food appears before you - you gotta cook something and use spells in hopes
for a good meal.
I agree fully on the black/white stuff. The thing that I think is funny is
that me knowing how to do basic astrology is supposedly "black" magick.
It's a very damn neutral thing. The person told me that I was suppose to
"hear voices" from it insisting stuff, which are supposedly "evil spirits."
Well, no voices from the norm really haunted my head. Was kind of funny
to me. Astrology I never really considered "magick", lol...it's a sort of
divination, but I do not consider it magick. To me, it's an organized way
of divining. Still think it's funny that people insist that it's one of
those "doors that cannot be opened" for I'm obviously not experiencing any
paranormal crap.
From what I also understand, prayer and spells have no difference from
eachother for both ways are using faith to accomplish something.
[Edited on 8/7/2003 by Anya]
HuntressPlague
Occasional Poster
Posts: 29 Registered: 2/8/2003 Status: Offline
posted on 7/8/2003 at 02:02 PM
I think we all agree it just comes down to us and the power within us. No
ifs ands or buts. Its true about the books stating about you must have it
in your head. If I read anymore my brain will bust ... But it is also great
to learn from those who do not read from a book also....
Dolorosa
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 856 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 7/8/2003 at 05:16 PM
Theres no black or white to magic, seriously. Diabolism, Astrology,
Sanguinary Happy Stuff...all that noise...if I had to give it a color, I'd
give it red really...or maybe magenta.
Black/White magic...I figure thats someones little defense mechanism. Pay
no mind to that sort of thing. If your good with Sidereal Time, then do
your thing dammit...and if someone says it's "nasty black magic" then drop
the fucking moon on their head.
____________________ In the valley of the Goats, the Goat Fucker is King
Ah black magic...when I was a cook, one of the other old, grizzled,
alcoholic cooks used to sing "black magic woman" to me every time I showed
up for work. *sigh* meeemorieeeeessssss....
____________________ Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
Dolo: faith... that is precisely what magic is... I honestly believe...
that if some child goes to the necronomicon and is completely unnbalanced
enough to place faith in it... they can produce effects from it... the
trraditional definitions of black and white do not apply... a hammer is a
tool, but... if used to murder someone... it becomes the weapon... I
believe magic BY ITSELF is niether black and white... but humans, like
everything else... change the nature of the thing by using it...
____________________ The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
Schizo
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 897 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 11/8/2003 at 02:52 AM
How true, Feralucce. There is nothing in this world that is positive or
negative intrinsically, except in intention or reception. For example,
many think of cancer as a negative thing, but if the experience of having
cancer produces strength of character in a person, then it can also be a
positive thing. And a compliment is often thought of as positive, but if
it just ends up going to someone's head, then the vanity it produces can be
intensely negative.
I'm convinced that even the things that people do with negative intention
can be received positively by someone with a strong will. Intended hurt
can be used to make us stronger.
And there are things we can do that are positive in some circumstances and
negative in others. For example, working to imprison just anyone is very
negative, but working to imprison a rapist or murderer is very positive for
all those who might be in danger from their misdeeds. The same applies to
"magical" workings, as well as mundane.
____________________ "You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the
dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest of
girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"
Dolorosa
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 856 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 11/8/2003 at 07:28 AM
Speaking of imprisonment spells and whatnot. I loathe those. I loathe them
with a sort of violence that hurts. I've been the recepiant of a
couple...and they were hard to break.
When it comes to using them, I'd rather not. Murderers and rapists and
whatnot...it could be construed as "good" to cast an imprisonment, or even
a physical imprisonment...but I for one would just rather kill them,
quickly and brutally.
Imprisonment blows...I wouldn't wish it on the greatest of my enemies for
even a moment. Just thinking about it makes me
feel....shit...claustrophobic I guess.
Good or bad...this sorts of things are hard to guage right...and even if
done properly, they're still open to interpretation.
Magic is beyond this, or maybe apart from it I guess. Do it...if it's
within your power...do the hell out of it.
Just face the consequences of your actions with honor and without fear.
____________________ In the valley of the Goats, the Goat Fucker is King
chameleon
Member
Posts: 83 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 11/8/2003 at 06:05 PM
As a teenager still in high school, I have little chance or supervision and
whatnot to practice my personal choice of supernatural beliefs. I wish to
learn the ways of the Brehon Law Judge, or Druid, as they're more commonly
known . After
reading several books on paranormal and supernatural practices, I decided
that Earth Magick was the way to go. Of course, being 1/4 Irish probably
strengthens the connection, but anyway ... Like I said,
I wish I could delve deper into my chosen mysteries.
I do believe that there is a definite "yin/yang"aspect to all forms of
magick, but I believe that giving them colours such as
"light/dark/black/white" only serve to divide the magickal community.
Iimagine, if you will, a magnificent gathering of all magickal practices,
all sharing their knowledge of their craft. Geez, almost sounds like a
smaller version of World Peace... So there you have it, my personal
opinions and lack of experiences. I have been told by some of my friends
that voodoo dolls work much better than expected though. Take that how you
will.
____________________ The perfect mind is like a mirror. It grasps nothing. It expects nothing.
It reflects but does not hold. Therefore, the perfect man can act without
effort.
~Chuang Tsu
Psychopixi
Fanatic
Posts: 376 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 12/8/2003 at 04:26 AM
Yeah, I don't choose to believe that there can be black magick, white
magick, yellow polka dot magick... It's like electricity - can light your
house, or frazzle the fuck out of you. The only good / bad can be in the
caster's intentions and even then, that's all based on bloody opinions -
who can work out hard and fast rules as to what is "good" and what is
"bad"? Who has the right to do that?
Chameleon: I'm quite lucky in that although I'm still in school I've always
been free to hold whatever beliefs I choose. When I first started buying
books, and surfing the internet for information on Paganism my mother was
totally cool about it; her only request was that I pass on anything
interesting to her! School isn't hassle either - I wear a pentacle openly,
but I've never been called on it. The only thing people have said is "She's
wearing a goth star!"
____________________ Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life.
Schizo
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 897 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 12/8/2003 at 03:03 PM
Dolo, I didn't mean imprisonment spells, I meant plain old mundane
imprisonment.
I kind of feel that one's "magical" life should follow the same rules as
one's "mundane" life. If you wouldn't do something physically to someone,
then don't do it with magic. Sure, magic can be dangerous, but so can the
rest of life. You can screw up your life and others' with the best of
intentions either way. But that doesn't mean that we should sit on our
asses and do nothing for fear of doing harm to something or someone. You
are more likely to ruin your life doing nothing than by doing the wrong
thing once in a while. If you put the same care into taking magical action
as you would taking mundane action, then you are doing all you need to make
sure you are on the right track.
And sometimes we have to take unpleasant physical action under certain
circumstances. It would follow that unpleasant magical action may also be
necessary occasionally. Do what you have to do, and cause unpleasantness
only as a last resort, to avert greater unpleasantness (rather like an
painful operation removing a life-threatening tumor).
____________________ "You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the
dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest
of
girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"
IamSquid
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 658 Registered: 27/5/2002 Status: Offline
posted on 14/8/2003 at 09:21 PM
Ethical relativism aside, ALL actions have both "positive" and "negative"
consequences. There is no "good" or "evil" in nature. The law of Karma
does exsist, however, because the Universe is not that thing "out there."
Thus if yoo look for trouble, trouble is what yor going to get. Shit only
comes back to haunt yoo if yor foolish about it.
Now Dolorosa, what exactly is yor problem with Unlce Al? He bums out
cigarettes in return (at least to the people he likes).
____________________
i wanted to die, and then it progressed into wanting everyone else to
die so i could watch, and then me die.
-ickgirl
callei
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 15/8/2003 at 02:11 PM
things also have neutral direction. nothing is actually that linear as to
only have an up and a down.
And karma is what you do to yourself by using others. its more personal
than going looking for a fight.
I promised myself i would stay out of the pagen fights....
____________________ Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away.
IamSquid
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 658 Registered: 27/5/2002 Status: Offline
posted on 16/8/2003 at 01:18 AM
well said callei, the karmic principle is no like balancing scales as much
as building a pile of karma. An individuals actions go into the pile and
things that fit the pile get thrown at the individual.
____________________
i wanted to die, and then it progressed into wanting everyone else to
die so i could watch, and then me die.
Oh come on C, you couldn't resist one little snippet of a delicious little
pagan fight. I was actually intending on keeping my mouth shut, but I
couldn't resist either.
____________________ Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
callei
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 18/8/2003 at 03:31 PM
I know B, i always so SOMETHING when the kids get all strange about
"religion". I just can resist. btw your post was a fun read.
____________________ Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away.
Arthegarn
Member
Posts: 79 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 25/8/2003 at 06:28 AM
As for me, I am of course a cabalist. Yes, there is a Christian Cabala (and
a muslim one), although the jew are still undisputed masters. There was a
damned lot of Cabala in Spain during the Muslim occupation and reconquest,
if you just liked the subject and could take a look at what we have in
Toledo... And believe me, it's not just about numbers, though there is a
lot of that.
I believe there is a strong difference between magic and prayer, though in
Spain we use the words magic, witchcraft, and sorcery as quite different
from eacho other. Magic (Magia) is what you could call magic in general,
the ability to cause supernatural alterations of reality through your own
inner power. Witchcraft (brujerķa) is the ability to cause supernatural
alterations of reality not by your own power but by the power of some other
entity (the standard pact-with-the-devil thing), and sorcery (hechicerķa)
in the alteration of reality though specific rituals, being much like
science for all that matters.
I believe there is no such thing as black magic, as there is no black
science. Nuclear investigation can get mankind to atomic armageddon or to
MARAs. Magic is not black or white by itself, it's what you do with it and
why do you use it. Though some things I hardly see as good.
The 3 rule is crap. I agree with Bettie on that one.
Anya
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 25/8/2003 at 08:40 AM
I use to label magick black and white and all those fun little colors, but
then I stopped when I analyzed psychology.
From what I understand so far and from what a lot of my magician (Witches
and other religo-magicians) associates believe, there isn't much difference
between ritual and prayer, or magic and prayer for that matter. Prayer is
sending energy into the Universe - I do not really think that spells are
any different, more or less. I believe that Prayer and spells are ways of
working magick, but otherwise, no difference aside from that. I'm also
convinced that people have to work on the obstacles to make their prayers
and spells work.
A lot of the magick I tamper with nowdays is roughly experimenting, but for
some reason I cannot resist asking the Deity I worship to bless my actions.
I've recently been working with I-Ching sticks, which for some reason I
feel a strong affinity for. I never stop using prayer, though.
Something interesting came up when I was reading something about the
subconscious: a magician insists that whatever thoughts you stick deep in
your subconscious can become a reality. Does anyone have any insight on
that?
Arthegarn
Member
Posts: 79 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 25/8/2003 at 03:27 PM
Oh, yeah, I agree. We draw our sense of reality from what our senses tell
us. Deep enough in hypnotic state you can cause hallucinations vivid enough
to be completely real for you. If you abuse that, you'll find out you can
make anything you want while the rest of the world will see you as a damned
madman. But who cares? It's called delusional thinking. Anybody read Total
Recall?
Aw.. It wasn't this what you meant? Ammm.. Sorry, huh, just kidding