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Author: Subject: Faith and Magick.

Occasional Poster




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Registered: 2/8/2003
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  posted on 6/8/2003 at 07:32 PM
We could always get a group of mindless people and set them down for a game and see what happens ..... lol ... You might break that 2 by 4 with some of those thick headed males out there
 

Extreme Fanatic




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  posted on 6/8/2003 at 09:26 PM
To be quite blunt, when it comes to "magic" I'll give it to you straight. It's willpower with aromatherapy. It's stage setting, play acting, but all the juju lies in that wad of meat knocking around between your ears. Don't get me wrong, no matter what "religion" you adhere to, all the little doodads come in handy. THere is no difference betwen "white/black" or good and bad, as human nature itself is both, and if you're one of those "white lighters' or big bad voodoo daddie sthen you're kidding yoruself. Its all in your ability to accept what your eally really want or have ot do. The 3 rule is crap, it's for people that want to have excuses for not carrying out the dirty work that they secrety are DYING to do. Ive fucked some shit up in my time and did it come back on me? NOPE! you know why? Because I WANTED it, I was PREPARED for it, and it HAD to be doen. Knockin someone out of comision to either protect yourself or keep them from messing you up isn't bad, it's smart. Period. Whether you do it with words, willpower, or physically. The mind is the most important and least understod part of our world, and it's also the most underestmiated. All the science in the world won't take it apart and give it sterile and unpronouncalbe names and functions, it's up to the person to discover and USE it. A scaple can make it bleed, but the scalpel cannot understand.
You can fight debilitating diseases with bio feedback and cheesy positive thinking.
You can train yourself into a coma and last for days without food or water.
You can shut your body off and die.
You can loose weight or gain weight.
You can cause your own catastropic disasters ad uncharted succeses.
You can cause yourself to halucinate by merely being TOLD you have injestd a drug.

Is it magic? no, it's YOU. That is wher it all happens. "magic" begins and ends betwen your ears.

Now, I hope i've made some sense, and I'm leaving now to do a mexican hat dance around my shotglass. Enlightenment is found at the bottome of a botle of good booze friends, take my workd for it.

 

____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.

 

Extreme Fanatic




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  posted on 7/8/2003 at 11:03 AM
A lot of the books I've read always stated the thing that you have to work on what you want to achieve, as well. Basically cannot say "shazam!" and food appears before you - you gotta cook something and use spells in hopes for a good meal.

I agree fully on the black/white stuff. The thing that I think is funny is that me knowing how to do basic astrology is supposedly "black" magick. It's a very damn neutral thing. The person told me that I was suppose to "hear voices" from it insisting stuff, which are supposedly "evil spirits." Well, no voices from the norm really haunted my head. Was kind of funny to me. Astrology I never really considered "magick", lol...it's a sort of divination, but I do not consider it magick. To me, it's an organized way of divining. Still think it's funny that people insist that it's one of those "doors that cannot be opened" for I'm obviously not experiencing any paranormal crap.

From what I also understand, prayer and spells have no difference from eachother for both ways are using faith to accomplish something.

[Edited on 8/7/2003 by Anya]

 

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  posted on 7/8/2003 at 02:02 PM
I think we all agree it just comes down to us and the power within us. No ifs ands or buts. Its true about the books stating about you must have it in your head. If I read anymore my brain will bust ... But it is also great to learn from those who do not read from a book also....
 

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  posted on 7/8/2003 at 05:16 PM
Theres no black or white to magic, seriously. Diabolism, Astrology, Sanguinary Happy Stuff...all that noise...if I had to give it a color, I'd give it red really...or maybe magenta.
Black/White magic...I figure thats someones little defense mechanism. Pay no mind to that sort of thing. If your good with Sidereal Time, then do your thing dammit...and if someone says it's "nasty black magic" then drop the fucking moon on their head.

 

____________________
In the valley of the Goats, the Goat Fucker is King

 

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  posted on 9/8/2003 at 10:28 PM
Ah black magic...when I was a cook, one of the other old, grizzled, alcoholic cooks used to sing "black magic woman" to me every time I showed up for work. *sigh* meeemorieeeeessssss....

 

____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.

 

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  posted on 10/8/2003 at 08:20 AM
Dolo: faith... that is precisely what magic is... I honestly believe... that if some child goes to the necronomicon and is completely unnbalanced enough to place faith in it... they can produce effects from it... the trraditional definitions of black and white do not apply... a hammer is a tool, but... if used to murder someone... it becomes the weapon... I believe magic BY ITSELF is niether black and white... but humans, like everything else... change the nature of the thing by using it...

 

____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.

Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist

 

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  posted on 11/8/2003 at 02:52 AM
How true, Feralucce. There is nothing in this world that is positive or negative intrinsically, except in intention or reception. For example, many think of cancer as a negative thing, but if the experience of having cancer produces strength of character in a person, then it can also be a positive thing. And a compliment is often thought of as positive, but if it just ends up going to someone's head, then the vanity it produces can be intensely negative.

I'm convinced that even the things that people do with negative intention can be received positively by someone with a strong will. Intended hurt can be used to make us stronger.

And there are things we can do that are positive in some circumstances and negative in others. For example, working to imprison just anyone is very negative, but working to imprison a rapist or murderer is very positive for all those who might be in danger from their misdeeds. The same applies to "magical" workings, as well as mundane.

 

____________________
"You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest of girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"

 

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  posted on 11/8/2003 at 07:28 AM
Speaking of imprisonment spells and whatnot. I loathe those. I loathe them with a sort of violence that hurts. I've been the recepiant of a couple...and they were hard to break.

When it comes to using them, I'd rather not. Murderers and rapists and whatnot...it could be construed as "good" to cast an imprisonment, or even a physical imprisonment...but I for one would just rather kill them, quickly and brutally.

Imprisonment blows...I wouldn't wish it on the greatest of my enemies for even a moment. Just thinking about it makes me feel....shit...claustrophobic I guess.

Good or bad...this sorts of things are hard to guage right...and even if done properly, they're still open to interpretation.

Magic is beyond this, or maybe apart from it I guess. Do it...if it's within your power...do the hell out of it.
Just face the consequences of your actions with honor and without fear.

 

____________________
In the valley of the Goats, the Goat Fucker is King

 

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  posted on 11/8/2003 at 06:05 PM
As a teenager still in high school, I have little chance or supervision and whatnot to practice my personal choice of supernatural beliefs. I wish to learn the ways of the Brehon Law Judge, or Druid, as they're more commonly known . After reading several books on paranormal and supernatural practices, I decided that Earth Magick was the way to go. Of course, being 1/4 Irish probably strengthens the connection, but anyway ... Like I said, I wish I could delve deper into my chosen mysteries.

I do believe that there is a definite "yin/yang"aspect to all forms of magick, but I believe that giving them colours such as "light/dark/black/white" only serve to divide the magickal community. Iimagine, if you will, a magnificent gathering of all magickal practices, all sharing their knowledge of their craft. Geez, almost sounds like a smaller version of World Peace... So there you have it, my personal opinions and lack of experiences. I have been told by some of my friends that voodoo dolls work much better than expected though. Take that how you will.

 

____________________
The perfect mind is like a mirror. It grasps nothing. It expects nothing. It reflects but does not hold. Therefore, the perfect man can act without effort.
~Chuang Tsu

 

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  posted on 12/8/2003 at 04:26 AM
Yeah, I don't choose to believe that there can be black magick, white magick, yellow polka dot magick... It's like electricity - can light your house, or frazzle the fuck out of you. The only good / bad can be in the caster's intentions and even then, that's all based on bloody opinions - who can work out hard and fast rules as to what is "good" and what is "bad"? Who has the right to do that?

Chameleon: I'm quite lucky in that although I'm still in school I've always been free to hold whatever beliefs I choose. When I first started buying books, and surfing the internet for information on Paganism my mother was totally cool about it; her only request was that I pass on anything interesting to her! School isn't hassle either - I wear a pentacle openly, but I've never been called on it. The only thing people have said is "She's wearing a goth star!"

 

____________________
Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life.

 

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  posted on 12/8/2003 at 03:03 PM
Dolo, I didn't mean imprisonment spells, I meant plain old mundane imprisonment.

I kind of feel that one's "magical" life should follow the same rules as one's "mundane" life. If you wouldn't do something physically to someone, then don't do it with magic. Sure, magic can be dangerous, but so can the rest of life. You can screw up your life and others' with the best of intentions either way. But that doesn't mean that we should sit on our asses and do nothing for fear of doing harm to something or someone. You are more likely to ruin your life doing nothing than by doing the wrong thing once in a while. If you put the same care into taking magical action as you would taking mundane action, then you are doing all you need to make sure you are on the right track.

And sometimes we have to take unpleasant physical action under certain circumstances. It would follow that unpleasant magical action may also be necessary occasionally. Do what you have to do, and cause unpleasantness only as a last resort, to avert greater unpleasantness (rather like an painful operation removing a life-threatening tumor).

 

____________________
"You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the
dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest of
girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"

 

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  posted on 14/8/2003 at 09:21 PM
Ethical relativism aside, ALL actions have both "positive" and "negative" consequences. There is no "good" or "evil" in nature. The law of Karma does exsist, however, because the Universe is not that thing "out there." Thus if yoo look for trouble, trouble is what yor going to get. Shit only comes back to haunt yoo if yor foolish about it.

Now Dolorosa, what exactly is yor problem with Unlce Al? He bums out cigarettes in return (at least to the people he likes).

 

____________________

i wanted to die, and then it progressed into wanting everyone else to die so i could watch, and then me die.

-ickgirl

 

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  posted on 15/8/2003 at 02:11 PM
things also have neutral direction. nothing is actually that linear as to only have an up and a down.
And karma is what you do to yourself by using others. its more personal than going looking for a fight.
I promised myself i would stay out of the pagen fights....

 

____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires away.

 

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  posted on 16/8/2003 at 01:18 AM
well said callei, the karmic principle is no like balancing scales as much as building a pile of karma. An individuals actions go into the pile and things that fit the pile get thrown at the individual.

 

____________________


i wanted to die, and then it progressed into wanting everyone else to
die so i could watch, and then me die.




-ickgirl

 

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  posted on 18/8/2003 at 02:25 PM
Oh come on C, you couldn't resist one little snippet of a delicious little pagan fight. I was actually intending on keeping my mouth shut, but I couldn't resist either.

 

____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.

 

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  posted on 18/8/2003 at 03:31 PM
I know B, i always so SOMETHING when the kids get all strange about "religion". I just can resist. btw your post was a fun read.

 

____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away.

 

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Registered: 31/12/1969
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  posted on 25/8/2003 at 06:28 AM
As for me, I am of course a cabalist. Yes, there is a Christian Cabala (and a muslim one), although the jew are still undisputed masters. There was a damned lot of Cabala in Spain during the Muslim occupation and reconquest, if you just liked the subject and could take a look at what we have in Toledo... And believe me, it's not just about numbers, though there is a lot of that.

I believe there is a strong difference between magic and prayer, though in Spain we use the words magic, witchcraft, and sorcery as quite different from eacho other. Magic (Magia) is what you could call magic in general, the ability to cause supernatural alterations of reality through your own inner power. Witchcraft (brujerķa) is the ability to cause supernatural alterations of reality not by your own power but by the power of some other entity (the standard pact-with-the-devil thing), and sorcery (hechicerķa) in the alteration of reality though specific rituals, being much like science for all that matters.

I believe there is no such thing as black magic, as there is no black science. Nuclear investigation can get mankind to atomic armageddon or to MARAs. Magic is not black or white by itself, it's what you do with it and why do you use it. Though some things I hardly see as good.

The 3 rule is crap. I agree with Bettie on that one.

 

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  posted on 25/8/2003 at 08:40 AM
I use to label magick black and white and all those fun little colors, but then I stopped when I analyzed psychology.

From what I understand so far and from what a lot of my magician (Witches and other religo-magicians) associates believe, there isn't much difference between ritual and prayer, or magic and prayer for that matter. Prayer is sending energy into the Universe - I do not really think that spells are any different, more or less. I believe that Prayer and spells are ways of working magick, but otherwise, no difference aside from that. I'm also convinced that people have to work on the obstacles to make their prayers and spells work.

A lot of the magick I tamper with nowdays is roughly experimenting, but for some reason I cannot resist asking the Deity I worship to bless my actions. I've recently been working with I-Ching sticks, which for some reason I feel a strong affinity for. I never stop using prayer, though.

Something interesting came up when I was reading something about the subconscious: a magician insists that whatever thoughts you stick deep in your subconscious can become a reality. Does anyone have any insight on that?


 

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  posted on 25/8/2003 at 03:27 PM
Oh, yeah, I agree. We draw our sense of reality from what our senses tell us. Deep enough in hypnotic state you can cause hallucinations vivid enough to be completely real for you. If you abuse that, you'll find out you can make anything you want while the rest of the world will see you as a damned madman. But who cares? It's called delusional thinking. Anybody read Total Recall?
Aw.. It wasn't this what you meant? Ammm.. Sorry, huh, just kidding

 
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