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Squire-of-Gothos
Fanatic   Posts: 206 Registered: 1/1/2003 Status: Offline
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posted on 30/7/2003 at 10:03 PM |
Today at work a woman overheard me talking about a moral epiphany I had
during a late night Finnegan's Wake and pot session I had a few days
earlier. Needless to say, I quit smoking, drinking, insulting, and eating
red meat. She had some sagely advice for me though. In a thick Caribbean
accent she said, "Whatcha' need ees some Jesus, me boy. Praise da lord!"
Well I personally have nothing against Christianity or the Bible, so I
simply told her that that was nice, but no thank you. It did not end. I
have to go to church with her she says. That I'll burn in hell for not
believing. So I told her I was a Buddhist, and then came the storm. I was
definitely going to hell. I was a sinner. And no earthly man can be a god,
or answer my prayers. My reply, juxtaposed, for your viewing pleasure. To
wit:
1. Jesus is your lord and savior, and he was an earthly man.
2. God told man not to persecute, and "not judge, lest he be judged"
3. Buddha is not a god, I've no reason to pray. I need only live a life or
Karmic goody ness. Buddha, like Jesus and Muhammad, where profits, and
sayers of wisdom and morals.
4. The mass of inconsistencies, the contradictions, its being tainted by
revisions, it structure, its rigidity, and its removal of power from man to
decide what is good and what moral code to live by, is so against what I
want in life, that Bible is NOT for me, and you should leave the store.
Please.
I'll say again, there not necessarily anything wrong with the Bible. It a
book of morals and life lessons, and if they are what you want, by all
means take them. I think though, that often times you have a situation
where it is taken so literally that anything remotely out of sync with its
message is perceived as an affront to there religion. This is not your
everyday Christian mind you, but devout Christians and Catholics. Any hint,
any whisper of something besides Jesus’ word, and your either insulted,
ignored, or an attempt to convert you is made. Its as if you are not a
human anymore but some slimy infidel, trying to change them. The attitude
is that your either with or against, and to me, that seems rather
unethical, and it is said in the Bible these actions are not Gods way.
Especially when you talk to me, because I have always held that in a
religious or social or political convo, the goal is to express, absorb, and
perhaps learn, not to change or win the opinion or argument. But my
nonchristianity somehow becomes a message of "I'm not, neither should
you!"
So I want to know what people think. I want to hear Christians up in this
thing, I want atheists who've got the same crap, I want anyone who feels
they've participated, been victim of, or observed this kind of display. I
want people who think I'm full of it, and people who think this is right
on, because this whole thing fascinates me. Honestly I'm all for
egalitarianism, and this kind of stuff makes a guy a might bit fussy. It's
de classe to see a normally affable, concomitant catholic just burst out in
anger becuase you quietly discuss something with someone, and they don't
agree. Its all about calm, cool and collected if you want people to listen
to you, and if they want me to change my mind, (which they really shouldn't
be) they should try a little bit better. or nicer.
Case in point after work, Starbucks, eventide......
A catholic woman, as I sat with a friend having a theological convo, told
me to shut up because I was annoying her. "Am I talking to loud mam?" I
ask. "NO, I don't care if you don't believe in Jesus, go to hell if you
want, but I don't want to hear it in front of me!". So, trying to be nice,
I say "Well I'm sorry to offend mam, but I was talking with my friend here
in private, if you overheard and don't like I apologize, but I wasn't
talking....", she cut me off with, "Don't try that shit with me son! I'm a
born and raised catholic, that is not the way you should be speaking!" Keep
this in mind if you ever speak to me: You yell, I often yell back, if you
don't want to be calm and logical, fine, have it your way, so I said, "was
I talking to you mam?". "No!" she replies. "Then shut the fuck up. If you
don't like what you hear, don't listen. Is your belief in god and Jesus so
weak, so flimsily balanced, that hearing someone speak against it shakes
you? I recommend a reprisal of faith mam, or at least a thicker skin."
(For the sake of the situation, I was telling my friend how I thought
people fear their freedom, and are thus inclined to cling to religions that
solve all of life’s mysteries, and tell them how to live, and what’s wrong
and right etc. "It is", I said "A virtual life instruction manual. Take a
god fearing Christian and tell him to go find himself and discover the
meaning of self and the universe, and he will most likely freak out.
Eastern, and for that matter, many native American beliefs, always seemed
superior because the mind is free to explore itself totally. With the Bible
its either too things. A book that has good morals and teachings, or a full
blown historical document, a plexus of everything you need. Its modern mans
moral Swiss army knife. Let me elucidate my friend, we live in a society
where Christianity is no longer the sterling silver statue of pious
worship. She's put on a nasty patina, because before, people generally fell
into bourgeois belief structures. They where pretty religious, but not the
pontificating born again's you run into, neither where they the
lackadaisical "oh, yeah I'm a Christian. I guess" proletarian mainstream,
to whom religion is just a birth right and a matter of trifling
unimportance. So now the two extremes are totally aloof. They are the same,
but woefully different. So the uber devout cling like holy hell to it,
pardon pun, the others, don't. Now its not the status quos to be Christian
in America, and its not even that important. Liberal Larry's are pulling
the word God and Christ from every wall, poster, and pledge of allegiance,
so those who believe, are now fighting for it even more. The farther the
distance between mainstream Christians and the pious get, the deeper they
will recess into the holes they've dug for themselves. People of that ilk
need to learn to cantenate again, be concomitant darn it! The devout think
the others are weak, and the "weak" think the devout are nutty. Sticks my
Élan Vital right through the floor damn it. I don't want to caught in the
middle.")
Was It really that bad? Discuss.
[Edited on 31/7/2003 by Squire-of-Gothos] ____________________
“The only thing that can alter the good writer is death.”
“You know that if I were reincarnated, I’d want to come back a buzzard.
Nothing hates him. He is never bothered or in danger, and he can eat
anything.”
Faulkner
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Squire-of-Gothos
Fanatic Posts: 206 Registered: 1/1/2003 Status: Offline
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posted on 30/7/2003 at 10:09 PM |
| Well, I don't kno where thos other two came from. I'm asuming a moderator
will have to erase them. until then, this should the one to reply to. ____________________
“The only thing that can alter the good writer is death.”
“You know that if I were reincarnated, I’d want to come back a buzzard.
Nothing hates him. He is never bothered or in danger, and he can eat
anything.”
Faulkner
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Anya
Extreme Fanatic   Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 30/7/2003 at 11:41 PM |
My mom has a friend in Florida who kind of freaked out at me wearing black,
going under morbid names online, and talked to a variety of people. She
thought I was some possessed person or something until my mom had a long
talk to calm her down. While she didn't try to outright convert me, she
almost accused me of demon possession. I use to cluck and sniggle about
it, but eh...not much use anymore.
There's also been cases of people accusing me of the same act because of
similar reasons. According to some people, I'm going to go to Hell for
even playing D&D. 
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Psychopixi
Fanatic  Posts: 376 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 31/7/2003 at 05:17 AM |
We have a preacher in the town center. He used to play bible hymns when he
got tired of accusing people of (a)being posessed, (b)being sinners,
(c)going to hell. My friend's son and his friends distracted the guy, then
switched the tape of hymns for a Limp Bizkit tape.
He offered to exorcise my friend once. That was amusing. ____________________
Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life.
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 31/7/2003 at 09:57 AM |
You're not the only one that encounters that on occasion, and just to even
things out a bit, "pagans" can be EVERY bit as pushy and judgemental as the
most devote god faith follower. What makes them even worse, to me, is the
fact that while being pushy, overbearing, and judgemental they talk
themselves blue about peace and acceptance and their overwhelming
unbiasedness and openmindedness When religion comes up, I've had almost
identical reactions from pagans AND xians when they learn I"m a satanist.
I either get "you'll burn in hell stay away from my kids" or "You'll get
your evil energy back times three! Stay away from my kids!" even tho I
don't do bad things. They're not all like that, and neither are all xians,
however they tend to urk me WAY more becuase they can be so outright
hypocritical.
I deal with the Xian front every single day at work if "the janitor" is
working. His name is john, and he's a real gem of a headcase. Praise the
goddamned lord for the blue in the sky, the song in the bird, the trash on
the ground that keeps him in his paychecks by picking it up. Normally he's
harmless (except for on the weekends when he comes to the mall in
monochromatic suits in blinding colors complete with matching shoes and
fedora with a bible to preach in front of nordstroms) but help you may you
come across him on a day when he's on a real spinner. After the terrorist
attack he started in on me on my smoke break about Islam, a religion of
hate and evil with their heathen god Allah and how they are born and raised
to hate god and america, and how the bible isn't just history it's
HIS-story and blah blah blah Amen to the tune of which just made me sick.
After five minutes of machinegun fire southern baptist holy rollin fire and
brimstone lord sayin I was green and he was out of breath but nowhere near
done with me, so I finally cut him off and let him have it as politely as I
could, tore his argument apart, told him to keep his mouth shut until he
had read the damned Koran and understood what he THOUGHT was such a
horrible horrible thing, that Allah *IS* God, just the WORD "god" in a
different language (ie: NOT ENGLISH you FUCKER) and said that I wouldn't be
subjected to lecturing when I was out there for a damned BREAK.
He's still nice to me, but he's seriously laid off being mr. freaky jesus
janitor, at least around me.
And he can be perfectly secure in his faith the next time he's caught
feeling up a 17 year old in his car in the parkinglot too. Praise jesus. ____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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Ironboots
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 893 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 31/7/2003 at 09:57 AM |
You could probably write a book on the subject, couldn't you squire? 
A little background... I'm agnostic. I don't think its possible to know who
is God(s), or even if he exists... Because of that, I think all religions
are pretty much equal and don't bother me much.
Speaking of bothering, I've never really had any bad experiences with
evangalizing types. Sure, I've gotten handed the odd flyer or two, been
visited on a Sunday at the door, but nothing impolite. I just say I'm not
interested and they wish me a good day and leave.
I think that most (most, mind you...) people will be polite if you are
polite. If you seem to challenge them in any way, they're going to get
irritated. Roll your eyes when you walk by, flaunt your pentagram a bit
much, or whatever, and they're going to feel insulted. Thin skinned, yes...
But sometimes you asked for it...
Also, discussing theology is an insult to their religion because religion
is not really based on any logic, so therefore its easy to topple. I mean,
what is the basis of the different theologies but a matter of blind faith?
Shake that faith, and the person feels threatened. I personally try to
avoid discussions of the type for that reason. A person has decided for
himself what makes sense, and I don't want to change that in any way.
They're happy like that, so I leave them alone.
BTW, Anya... I've never heard anyone 'sniggle' before... lol...  ____________________
Piggy's got the Conch!
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Psychopixi
Fanatic Posts: 376 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 31/7/2003 at 10:10 AM |
Bettie: I'm Pagan, but I take the Crowley view - "And do as ye will
shall be the whole of the law." I don't do the 'threefold law' stuff, and I
have the utmost respect for Satanists. I read through the church of satan
website, and while it only has the basic things on there I found myself
agreeing with pretty much everything. Plus, I don't see how anyone can
knock what you believe in when all they have to do is read a few of your
posts and they'd realise you're a fucking great person - irrelevant of
religious choice. Christianity, Paganism, Satanism - they're just words.
What should matter when judging people (cause lets face it, we're all
human, and we do all judge others) is their personality and character.
I personally (not saying I'm right) don't think that the threefold
law exists, to be honest. It's just something Gardner made up when he was
introducing neo-Paganism. Any of the writings from before then pretty much
say "don't do curses cause you might be caught' - no mention of a
'punishment'. I've heard so many people say "I don't do curses cause I
don't want them coming back to bite me on the arse' and I just want to
smack them: You don't do bad stuff because you don't want to hurt
people, not for fear of a vengeful God, or a law of karmic return.
That's almost an absolvement of free will. It's your choice what you do,
you shouldn't be influenced by fear of punishment. ____________________
Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life.
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callei
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 31/7/2003 at 11:02 AM |
I have trouble with pagans and all the other monotheists because they all
seem to want to be absolved of "blame" and "guilt" and be "loved".(dont get
me started on these make believe words)
I have trouble telling the difference between people that call thier one
god "allah", "god", "gaia", or "father sun" (or any of the other names that
monotheists use for thier monomania.
I have trouble believeing them since the basis of thier "faith" is that
everyone else is wrong, because they call that "one power" by the wrong
name, make the wrong kind of sacrifices to it, or dont live by the same
"holy" rules that they ascribe to it.
I have trouble understanding how they can believet that only thier regional
diety can be "real" and how they can have only one regional diety.
I dont understand why they are afraid to die when that is the only time
they get to meet thier god. I guess they dont like their god that much
huh?
I dont get why they want to make the universe so small and so
uninteresting, so black and white.
I mostly dont get why they think i might even begin to care about what
thier god tells them to do, or why they think thier god is so weak that it
cant talk to me directly and has to use them to talk to me.
____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away.
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Anya
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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 posted on 31/7/2003 at 01:29 PM |
I agree with bettie. I've seen as many self-righteous Pagans as I do
Christians. I know this one Pagan who keeps on ranting about an Apocalypse
because humans are so "evil" and we're all raping the Mother or something
and he says that all Christianity is evil and was meant to rape the Mother,
etc. Do not get me wrong, I believe that humans will destroy themselves if
an Apocalypse is to come, but I think there is more to it...I also think
that a lot of these people are paranoid schizophrenics about the situation.
Again, that is my opinion.
Personally, I do not think people's religions are wrong. It does not mean
that I agree with all of them, but everyone's spirituality is different for
everyone in general is different. One big bitch I have about people saying
something like "if you're not of this religion, you're going to Hell" is
that I think it's irrational thinking with spirituality in general. Not
everyone knows of the "right" actions, the "right" sacrifices, etc - not to
mention I do not understand the logic of it being a sin to have different
opinions. Oh yes, I also would like to mention that the whole world did
NOT revolve around the Middle East, and still does not today. I've got my
morals, but it does not mean that everyone has mine. That just does not
make sense to me.
But self-righteous people are not just part of religion - they are
everywhere. There's also some people who will say how evil money is, yet
have no problem leeching from Welfare. Then there's people who outright
lash at others for using gas and oil, yet they have no problem driving
their vans around town; I agree with trying to find other solutions, but it
does not mean that I'm going to prohibit the use of the sources we have
now. I've also bumped into people who preach about peace and love, yet
they are condemning someone for their religion.
There's more I can say, but I'll leave it at here for now.
[Edited on 7/31/2003 by Anya]
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Dolorosa
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 856 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 31/7/2003 at 04:48 PM |
Yikes...I hate it when that crap happens. I think you did right man, by
your own ways at least...and that has importance. My personal opinions on
the whole deal? Well shit...I recognize that theres SOMETHING out
there...not because I know, but because I think I'd honestly be afraid if
there wasn't anything except us. I don't live by anyones laws but my own,
although I'll play by the rules if necessary. I don't understand why people
seek to escape blame, and I think it's funny how everyone yammers on about
afterlifes.
How many people are there? Like six billion now, give or take...you'd think
the ratio of decent to deplorable would be a bit more even. Hell, maybe it
is...we're all just spread out too much. For every three billion people
who believe and live in moderation, there are three billion who'd live in
excess if they could. And thats just in the same three bil. Meh...people
are fucked up...myself included...I'm sure everyone out there has something
seriously cool about them...even if they are carrying a torch, or just
being a damned asshole...
And now I have completely derailed my train of thought...heh, sorry bout
that.
____________________
In the valley of the Goats, the Goat Fucker is King
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Abbadon
Fanatic  Posts: 499 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 31/7/2003 at 04:59 PM |
| When I grow up I wanna be a crazy hobo guy who wanders the streets dressed
only in dirt and shouting at people. ____________________
Light is changing to shadow, and casting a shroud over all we have known.
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Squire-of-Gothos
Fanatic Posts: 206 Registered: 1/1/2003 Status: Offline
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posted on 31/7/2003 at 05:46 PM |
I always wondered why the atitude was, "IF they don't believe in our god
they are stupid and must be changed." It's so arrogant to be
unconditionably convinced that every word in the bible is straight up fact.
And for that matter, why monotheism? Polytheistic belief structures where
around way longer than polytheistic ones, only in the last couple thousand
years has one god been in vogue. Chances are, 2 or 3 thousand of years from
now, people will be saying, "Boy they where stupid. One god!? Whats with
that? They all followed some book, written thousands of years before they
where born, by other people, for other reasons, and they all bought it,
hook, line and sinker. Morons...." Keep in mind change is good. Stagnation
promotes degradation, and God/Godess/Gods know, this country (and the
world) are going down the tubes.
And Betty, if he ever whines to people about how Islamics hate God and
Jesus, remind him (care of Brian, unholy squire) that Muhammad aknowledged
Jesus's existant, recognized his place as a profit, and spoke well of him.
Theyre friggin main man digs the JC, so how exactly does the hate factor
in? Though you already did a good job setting him straight (as far as you
and him are concerned).
Oh well. My next installment will be: Continuing a tradition of me getting
hated: Female Sexuality. Its going to be pretty darn spicy, but hopefully
ripe with points to argue. I'm so giddy..... I'm basing it on the fact that
teenage female sexuality is shunned and considered a no no, depsite theyre
known sexual desires. But there is way more to it. until then... ____________________
“The only thing that can alter the good writer is death.”
“You know that if I were reincarnated, I’d want to come back a
buzzard.
/>
Nothing hates him. He is never bothered or in danger, and he can eat
anything.”
Faulkner
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IamSquid
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 658 Registered: 27/5/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 31/7/2003 at 05:50 PM |
The one I love is people saying "God hates fags, it says so in the
Bible."
For a very long time I thought it was pure BS on the basis that if the
Bible contained any passage speaking out against homosexual relations then
idiots would walk around wearing Tshirts with the passage referance on
there just like they do with John 3:16.
Recently I was reading Leviticus and I came across the passage in question
(I don't have the exact passages on hand but the good news for Xian
lesbians is that it makes no mention of women with women, just men with
men). The joke here is that about 50% of Leviticus is instructions on
sacrificing livestock.
Thus the next time a Xian pulls that God hates fags crap on yoo, be sure to
ask him about the last time he made a blood offering to The Lowd. He'll
probably tell yoo that part of the Bible is outdated! ____________________
i wanted to die, and then it progressed into wanting everyone else to
die so i could watch, and then me die.
-ickgirl
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Anya
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 31/7/2003 at 08:10 PM |
I think it's funny when people start preaching about love and non-judging,
yet they will be quick to tell you that you're going to go to Hell for
being a homosexual. and IamSquid is right - that part of the book is
outdated...not to mention that it is possible that the older meanings were
lost due to the translations.
Paul speaks against homosexuality in the New Testament, but either way,
there are many lines that the Holier-Than-Thou people seem to miss.
However, I also feel that the homophobes just want a reason to be a
homophobe. I've met a several of non-Christians that are far more
homophobic than your typical Church-goer...I guess at least they're willing
to admit that they just hate homophobes for it's their problem instead of
hiding behind a book as an excuse...
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Merry_Widow
Fanatic  Posts: 598 Registered: 24/8/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 31/7/2003 at 09:53 PM |
| I hate it when people try to use Paul extensively to prove points. You
can't. His letters were written to specific communities at specific times
and cannot be generally applied. Unless you're a fucking corinthian, I
don't want to here yer pauline preaching. ____________________
Okay, dazzle me.
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 1/8/2003 at 12:36 AM |
Psychopixi, darlin you're not one of the crazy pagans I'm talking about,
and I'm glad that you know that. I've seen every degree of it from a
"witch" CONSTANTLY TALKING about how she's a witch and all her witchy
antics when people find out she's a witch (because it's all she ever talks
about), and how stupid christians are and blah blah blah did you know I"m a
witch? Huh? Cuz I am, an.....blah blah blah.
I actually once almost socked a pagan right in the face. She and her
husband ran a super successful candle/spiritual joint in Renton, and they
also ran a food bank. They do a raffle four times a year to raise money
for it, and I offered a painting for them to raffle off to raise money, and
she was like "Oh that'd be WONDERFUL! But...it's not all like, dead bodies
hanging from trees is it?" I think she realised what an asshole she made
herself out to be because she shut up really quickly. Open minded my
ass.
What I also don't get is all I over hear when christians are talking about
their faith is how kind and loving a religion it is. If it's so kind and
loving then why do they automatically throw the flaming coctail of hell in
your face before trying to win you over with this "love"? I'd go over a
lot better if they approached someone whom they thought would be a good
candidate for conversion with "It'll make you feel so good, so happy,
you'll have friends there", you know, like a drug dealer or a pimp. A good
drug dealer or pimp doesn't just walk up to people and demand they snort
this or fuck that or they'll die/go to hell, they make you feel GOOD by
playing to your common human wants ie: feel good, feel wanted, feel happy.
If those church ladies on a mission worked like drug dealers or pimps
they'd probably have a higher success rate, or at least fewer dirty looks. ____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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Anya
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 1/8/2003 at 01:14 AM |
I wasn't doing any Paul bashing, lol. I knew that the letters were written
in different times...was just pointing what I saw in the New Testament.
Sorry if it sounded like I was bashing him. There's A LOT of lines from
him that I liked.
I'll extend what I was trying to say...the thumpers tend to miss the
teachings of the actual person they're trying to follow. They seem to
forget the concepts of forgiveness, lack of judgement, treating onto others
like they wish to be treated, and et cetera.
Personally, I always viewed that a lot of the letters were apostlistic
views. In fact, there were some apostles who disagreed with eachother.
Bettie: Agreed. I have to roll my eyes when I hear comments like, "We're
open-minded...unlike those Christians!" Then there's some who say that
they're the only path to enlightenment, that Wiccans are the only true
Witches, etc. Does anyone notice a fundamental trend here? Lol. Not
saying all Wiccans are like that, but there's some who are doing that,
which to me is like a Baptist saying that they're the only "True
Christians" and the Catholics are evil and going to Hell (again, not saying
all Baptists do that, but there are some I know of who do think that).
What I find really amusing is when I open a book by a Pagan author that
starts off all nice and good-going, then they'll jump to pages of Christian
bashing and talk about how better they are, etc.
I guess it's religious politics...there's some people who just want to
advertise for the sake of growth of the community, whether it be quantity
over quality or not, or something else. I try not to overlook people for
their religion, but I do think there's some people in general who can give
a decent example instead of preaching it.
[Edited on 8/1/2003 by Anya]
[Edited on 8/1/2003 by Anya]
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Anya
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 1/8/2003 at 01:35 AM |
I have noticed a trend in history, though - when people go under one
religion once more, someone has to have another reason for "burning in
Hell." In Europe, we all supposedly started from One...then we all broke
up and made our own little groups. Then the Burning Times hit, causing it
for the most part be mostly One again, then someone doesn't think that is
enough and begins to make his own mob and says how that One will burn in
Hell and all that fire and brimstone crap. I'm beginning to think that
it's human nature. Again, I'm a fairly opinionated person.
I think there will be a time where there is One again, but the Cycle will
likely just be the same..all over again.
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Psychopixi
Fanatic Posts: 376 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 1/8/2003 at 02:44 AM |
| Lets face it; we're all going to hell. Christians say people who don't
worship their God are damned, but so do all the other religions. It's like
a fricken popularity contest. Who's got the best God, and the worst
punishment? Righteo then, I'll be one of them. ____________________
Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life.
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Meranda_Jade
Fanatic  Posts: 511 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 1/8/2003 at 07:11 AM |
| I think the problem isn't with one specific religion, but with
Fundamentalists in general. Way back when I heard of Wicca, it wasn't
popular, those pentacles better be tucked under your shirt or you'd catch
hell from everyone, not just the Christian Fundies. There wasn't much
mention of a three-fold law, and many spells were geared to reap personal
gain. It was more personal empowerment and less religion. Some people got
together and turned it into fluffy-bunny Wiccan Fundamentalism and that's
when it's teeth were pulled and it became accepted by the mainstream. Now,
poeple walking around with pentacles in full view are generally considered
a bit nutty, but are not shunned for being something potentially dangerous
by anyone except Christian Fundies. The Wiccan Fundies are just as twisted
and messed up as the Christian Fundies or the Islamic Fundies or the
any-established-religion Fundies. The people who just want to practice what
they personally believe in and be left alone to live full, happy lives are
the ones that will be jumped on by any frothing, rabid Fundie, no matter
what religion the Fundie subscribes to. That's what's sad. ____________________
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