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Author: Subject: "God/the Devil made me to do it!"

Extreme Fanatic





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Registered: 31/12/1969
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  posted on 17/7/2003 at 12:45 PM
Okay. I just watched on the news where the guy who kidnapped Elizabeth Smart (name?) had some other charges on him. He killed a woman and her daughter and made an excuse, saying, "God told me to do so." Well, he's not the only excommunicated Mormon out there that made the claim.

If anyone asks me, there is no reason that saying, "The Devil made me do it," is any different from saying "God made me do it." No offense to the Christians out there, just think a lot of people are failing to take responsibility for their problems.

 
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  posted on 17/7/2003 at 02:20 PM
When I was a little kid, like 7 or 8, I used to have a friend named Gabriel who was about 2 years younger than me. She came from a really religious family and they had taught her that every experience in life is either an act of god or the devil... I remember one time, she fell in a hole in my backyard, one the dogs had dug... and when she got up and I asked if she was ok, she told me, " The devil made me fall."

You're post just made me think of that.

 

____________________
In my eyes, to be human is not to be able to live and die, but it is to feel pain, love, happiness, and all other things that keep our hearts from freezing over into the bloody ice that distinguishes man from the beasts of night.

 

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  posted on 17/7/2003 at 02:47 PM
Lol. I grew up in a Catholic family and my mom never told me that everything in life was governed by God and the Devil. Honestly, I do not see the logic of teaching people to blame deities for your actions. That's kind of a contradiction to free will, don't you think? Heh.


 

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  posted on 17/7/2003 at 03:06 PM
lol, that's my problem with religions: People using it as an excuse for their actions... to me it's like blaming your imaginary friend..
That just reminded me. A friend of mine named was once barred entry from another friends house because of his name... the family was really religious, and well, being named Kane (Kane and Abel were the children of Adam and Eve, Kane was evil and killed Abel, or something like that) they figured he'd probably kill them or bring satan upon them.

 

____________________
"Be neither a master nor a slave to pudding, for there is a time to gather, and a time to cast pudding away"

 

Extreme Fanatic




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  posted on 17/7/2003 at 03:16 PM
Being a little superstitious, okay, I give myself credit for that a lot. But gawddamn... *shakes head*

I agree - saying things like that is not only a contradiction to free will, but also like saying it was your evil twin or something. Why can't some people just admit that they have a problem and quit hiding behind a dogma or something for it? Ah well.

Side note: Personally, I never perceived Cain as "evil." He was just human (and humans err from time to time), got jealous, and didn't fight that little temptation thing that beckoned for him to kill Abel. Some people will perceive it as "evil," probably...but a lot of people (including me) have fell to envy at some point in their life...though not to that extreme.

 

Extreme Fanatic




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  posted on 17/7/2003 at 05:12 PM
It's positively absurd. You want to know what makes people think that? Growing up in a society/church/community/family with emphasis on passing the buck. It's a way to free yourself of responsibility from personal actions. It's called disasociation. A lot of destructive or ignorant people have that. Murderers have that too, but oddly enough the really GOOD ones own up to the fact that they simply like to kill people.
When a child dies it's "god's will" or "god works in mysterious ways" or "god has a plan for that child" and I guess you could say that yes, he does. He has a plan, and obviously it was to kill someone's kid. "he" is teaching the family the brutal truth that we're all mortal, teaching greif, loss, anger, heartbreak and all the things that go with it. In other words they're using a book to soften the blow that the cold hard real world dealt their fantasy life. I figure hey, why not, whatever helps you get up in the morning and make it through your commute.

I have a serious issue with this whole celestial or burning pit finger pointing because it's just one more way for people to deny responsibility for their lives, actions, successes and failures. To me (and I"m sure someone might get angry at this) it's WEAK. It's childish, like when your mother asks who broke her lamp and you stare at the floor and say "I dunno" when YOU were the one playing living room baseball. It's just a tad more believeable to some.

 

____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.

 

Extreme Fanatic




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  posted on 17/7/2003 at 06:04 PM
Agreed. And I'm not offended Bettie (almost typed Battie there for a second, lmfao). I consider it somewhat weak too. I mean I can somewhat cut a -little- slack for someone bursting out at me then coming back to say they weren't in the best moods or something (though they still likely need to take responsibility), but all that other stuff, it's just outright running away. Heh.

 

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  posted on 18/7/2003 at 09:06 AM
Nicholas:

Kane wasn't evil, just jealous. He believed that God loved Able more than him when they both laid their sacrifices before Him. In a fit of rage, Kane killed his brother and was then cast out by God.

 

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Sometimes I dream about dinosaurs shopping for cargo shorts at the Gap. Does that make me a bad person?

 

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  posted on 18/7/2003 at 11:26 AM
Thank you for the knowledge. I've never been forced to learn anything about any religion, so all I know is what others have told me or what little I managed to read before in a hotel room before falling asleep.

 

____________________
"Be neither a master nor a slave to pudding, for there is a time to gather,
and a time to cast pudding away"

 

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Registered: 27/3/2003
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  posted on 18/7/2003 at 01:09 PM
I've never been able to get myself into the whole religion thing. I think a lot of it is self-contradictory bullshit and I just don't want a part of that. I also don't like the idea that some unknown power is controlling my existance, and this power doesn't even have the balls to prove that he does exist and that we are right for following him or choosing not to. And I dunno, but I just have a really hard time believing and respecting what the bible has to say * and I've heard this somewhere before, but I agree with it and am going to repeat it* The bible is a collection of stories passed down for over 2 thousand years, and then one day someone just decided to write it all down, saying it was gods will... God TOLD him to do this.. just as gold TOLD several of the people in the bible to do things. In this day in age if "God" TELLS someone to do something.. That person is called schizophrenic and is either given medicine or locked away in a padded cell. I'm a kid, and I don't have any kids of my own, but I'm just gonna say this as an example: If god told me to kill my first born son as a sacrifice, just as god told Abraham to sacrifice his son.. I would be called an insane murderer and end up dying of lethal injection.
Yea... I forgot the point I was going to make so I'm just gonna stop now.... OHHH
The point is, I don't understand why so many people put so much faith into the Bible, when, under the same circumstances today, you'd just be considered insane.

 

____________________
In my eyes, to be human is not to be able to live and die, but it is to
feel pain, love, happiness, and all other things that keep our hearts from
freezing over into the bloody ice that distinguishes man from the beasts of
night.

 

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Posts: 185
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 18/7/2003 at 01:53 PM
I don't really have a problem with religon. It's the fanatics of a given religion that I can't stand.

I could list several reasons why I'm not really into religion, but most of them have already been said, if not here then elsewhere. Instead, I'll simply list the reason that I came up with on my own, before ever being exposed to the religious fanatics or the people that can't stand those fanatics: I have trouble getting enthusiastic about Someone I've never met.

No offense meant towards those of a religious bent.

[Edited on 7/19/2003 by Alugarde]

 

____________________
l33t is the bastard cousin of contractions.

 

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  posted on 19/7/2003 at 03:18 PM
And they say entertainment corrupts children.
They also say that adults are children in big cloths.

 

____________________
but at least you know, just how much pain there is in living
 

Extreme Fanatic




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  posted on 19/7/2003 at 09:10 PM
They're children in big clothes that want so badly to be children again that they resort to the most childish of behavior: if I can't have fun, neither can you.

 

____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.

 

Extreme Fanatic




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  posted on 20/7/2003 at 07:56 AM
Lol. I think those who are trying so hard to convert others are just not confident enough about their own faith. But that's my opinion.

I'm just wondering what the mother and child did to "have God tell the guy to kill them."
I do know though that they pissed him off somehow. *mutteR*

 

Extreme Fanatic




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  posted on 20/7/2003 at 10:43 AM
Exactly, who are you trying to convince here pal? Me or yourself?

I read a short story about this subject once, about "god's plan" involving a little girl and some kittens. She lived in an abusive and ultra religious family, and every time her cat has kittens they "disapear" and her father says that "god took them". She gets angrier and angrier, and she questions her father on god's right to take her kittens and he beats her and sends her to bed, then he and her mother go and spoil and play with her (now hated) twin siblings. So her cat has kittens again and she hides and waits to see god "taking" them and discovers it's her father who's putting them in a sack and drowning them. She yells at her father, and he beats her again and sends her to her room, and she's yelling against god and her father and how "god will show YOU to take my kittens!". Later that night she hasn't come down for dinner and the father is explaining to the mother what their horrid girl did today, about how she caught him drowning the kittens and that 'god would show HIM". The mother then tells him to be quiet, and they both hear bathwater running and the infants crying.

MUAHAHAHAHHAHAHA.

Whenever I hear "god's will" it just sounds like a big fat copout, ie: "I dunno, I just wanna sound philosophical instead of like a dumbass".

I was also diggin through my t shirts yesterday and found a band shirt I almost forgot about. It's got a big picture of a fluffy kittens face on the back and it says "Every time you masturbate, god kills a kitten". I forgot how much I loved that shirt.

 

____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.

 

Extreme Fanatic




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  posted on 20/7/2003 at 03:17 PM
Wasn't really trying to convince anyone of anything. I just thought that those who tried to convert others are just not secure enough about their own faith...that or were raised to do so. For example:

Susey is going out with Bobby. But Bobby knows that Susie is not a <insert religion here>. So Bobby tries to make Susie into a <insert religion here>. Susie refuses so Bobby ditches her, giving her the guilt trip that she's going to go to Hell for she isn't a <insert religion here>.


The most I can figure out about people using "God's will" to kill people is that they either:

-Feel justified for it might be that the more gullible members of the religious masses will sympathize for him (the least gullible will probably think he's a laughing stock).

-More dramatic and/or shocking.

-An excuse to hate someone or an excuse to gain control.

Those are my opinions, though. I'm probably not that religious, but at least I have the guts to say that I did something for it was MY will.

Then again...maybe they have some psychological problems that make them hear those type of voices.

 

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  posted on 20/7/2003 at 04:55 PM
We are quiet the oxymoronic race. heh.

 

____________________
SRC="http://www.rpgclassics.com/shrines/snes/ff6/images/characters/kefka.gi
f"> size=1> but at least you know, just how much pain there is in living

 

Extreme Fanatic




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  posted on 20/7/2003 at 11:00 PM
Here's a quote for you AloneSoul:

"Humans are very contradictory creatures, claiming to want peace while waging war, saying they love you while they break your heart, stealing from people while they condemn thieves and dishonesty, it goes on and on." --Sean Brennan, Lead Singer of London After Midnight

Off topic, but thought it would appeal to you (and maybe some others).

[Edited on 7/21/2003 by Anya]

 

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  posted on 21/7/2003 at 06:55 PM
*smiles for once*
heh. It did.

 

____________________

SRC="http://www.rpgclassics.com/shrines/snes/ff6/images/characters/kefka.gi


f"> HREF="http://www.pathetic.org/library.php?i_memberid=2042">
size=1> but at least you know, just how much pain there is in living

 

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  posted on 22/7/2003 at 10:52 PM
I've seen many more acts of hate done in the name of religion than acts of love.

When a person uses religious beliefs as an excuse for a criminal act, they are only declaring to the public that they are incapable of thinking for themselves.

 

____________________
"When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I've never tried before." ~Mae West


 
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