KittyGoesMrow
Fanatic   Posts: 218 Registered: 30/4/2003 Status: Offline
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posted on 18/6/2003 at 03:15 PM |
Within our inability to fight fire with fire, we try anyway to
convince ourselves that anything is possible. But, to bring about the
diminishment of both flames that burn deep inside the hearts of all, does
that make inhuman or to much in likeness of ourselves. Without the heat
that sears through our souls to push us past our limitations, would we be
useless? Would life so graciously push us along? Would there be any good
reason to live anymore? Would humanity finally turn to God for their
questions, or fate and its answers? For all these uncertainties people tend
to do the same. To pour water on these wounds of ours so we can try to
sooth the harsh reality that scares us the most and to forget we live in a
Hell we've created.
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Abbadon
Fanatic  Posts: 499 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 18/6/2003 at 04:34 PM |
| Alas, it seems, in all your musings you were mistaken. For fate has no
answers, and as the poet put it: Hell is the possibility of sanity. And
what man is born sane, if insanity is nurtured? ____________________
Light is changing to shadow, and casting a shroud over all we have known.
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KittyGoesMrow
Fanatic Posts: 218 Registered: 30/4/2003 Status: Offline
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 posted on 18/6/2003 at 07:35 PM |
Very true. None are born sane anymore. It is not safe to be sane.
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Dense
Member   Posts: 73 Registered: 5/6/2003 Status: Offline
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posted on 19/6/2003 at 12:01 AM |
| Sanity makes the world a bore. My uniqeness is my water. Every one has some
water, if they reconize this is there choice. As a side note. One mans
heave is anothers hell. Honestly would you want to stay in a place that
n'snyc conseders heaven? ____________________
i am a misunderstood genius... Nobody understands that i am a genius!
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callei
Extreme Fanatic   Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 19/6/2003 at 12:39 PM |
well you gotta admit it would be fun to go look, maybe trake some pictures
and meet some chicks. but it would be nice to leave again.
maybe a day pass like going to the zoo? ____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away.
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Dense
Member Posts: 73 Registered: 5/6/2003 Status: Offline
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posted on 19/6/2003 at 06:56 PM |
| Vist maybe, but stay no f#(king way. ____________________
i am a misunderstood genius... Nobody understands that i am a genius!
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AloneSoul
Fanatic  Posts: 522 Registered: 6/7/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 22/6/2003 at 10:53 PM |
what erks me is acording to christains if you commite suicide you'll go
straight to hell.
if your life sucks then why should suffer in the afterlife? damn man, that
sucks.
oh yeah, just say fuck. ____________________
 but at least you know, just how much pain there is in living
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Dense
Member Posts: 73 Registered: 5/6/2003 Status: Offline
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posted on 23/6/2003 at 04:57 AM |
| Go to hell just for suicide. Ha that is a good one. You will probilly lose
some brownie points with the big guy for murder. But it is siad that once
you accept jesus as a savour you (you have to mean it) you are forgiven of
any past or future sins. god can see the futures. I say futures because
man/woman has free will threefor we can change destiny. ____________________
i am a misunderstood genius... Nobody understands that i am a genius!
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MystryssRavynDarque
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 648 Registered: 24/9/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 23/6/2003 at 02:00 PM |
| A preacher once told my mom, when she was going through a rough time before
she met my dad, that people who commit suicide are going to hell. Another
preacher told my mom that you wont necessarily go to hell. ____________________
"People always say what we are looking for is a meaning for life…I don't
think that's what we're looking for. I think what we're looking for is the
experience of being alive." -Joseph Campbell
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Dense
Member Posts: 73 Registered: 5/6/2003 Status: Offline
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posted on 23/6/2003 at 04:47 PM |
| Sin is sin. He says not to do it, but we do it. Thankfully he forgives us. ____________________
i am a misunderstood genius... Nobody understands that i am a genius!
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Monolycus
Fanatic  Posts: 580 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 30/6/2003 at 12:17 PM |
Dense wrote:
"But it is siad (sic) that once you accept jesus as a savour you (you have
to mean it) you are forgiven of any past or future sins."
Monolycus responds:
Actually, no. That is not Christian doctrine (or any other religious
doctrine that I have been able to find). Nobody just puts a salvation
stamp on the back of your hand and then lets you be just as horrible as you
want to be (although a case for that might be made for jihad or crusade
behaviours). Repentance covers only the sins a person has committed up
until that point, additional sins require additional forgiveness. If you
don't follow the by-laws, they kick you out of the club.
The closest thing to what you are describing sounds to me what Christian
scholars call the Khlisty heresy. This sect argued that, since forgiveness
was the most cherished, divine and important part of Christianity, it is
imperative to sin often and regularly. This way, you could be "forgiven"
just about every morning through your ceremonial hangover. The problem
here is that it assumes that the godhead is bound to forgive you, no matter
what. It's kind of a theological blackmail, but any argument that allows
the id to do what it wanted to anyway always tends to go over well.
The best way to look at it, if you're going to be a Christian anyway, is
through the expression "the grace of God". "Grace" is God's prerogative
(I'm seeing a celestial Bobby Brown now, but I will chase that vision
off... doesn't fit into my mystical cosmos), and it is up to Him/Her/It to
decide at the end of the day if He/She/It wants to forgive you or not.
He/She/It is not obligated to do anything that He/She/It doesn't want to,
and the only thing you can do about that is to try to be the best darned
person you can be to curry His/Her/It's favour. What you are jockeying for
here is the position of Holy Teacher's Pet.
Incidentally, today's hymn/hern/itn will be "Shall We Grovel at the River",
which you will find on page 23 fnord of your hymnal/hernal/itnal.
~M.
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Dense
Member Posts: 73 Registered: 5/6/2003 Status: Offline
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posted on 30/6/2003 at 07:04 PM |
| Monolyus you are right. Than would be like punching someone than expect
them to forgive you. Me personaly I don't really like to think to muchon
the reasons of the being that created use. Acepting or denieing its
existence is all I figure I can do. I accept it so i live by it's rules and
when I screw up I ask forgiveness. ____________________
i am a misunderstood genius... Nobody understands that i am a genius!
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Starlight
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 618 Registered: 27/9/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 1/7/2003 at 12:28 AM |
Gotta just love the idea of doing anything you want with the absolute
belief that you can get away with it by just being sorry after the fact.
How handy that must be.
I hope there really is a thing called karma and that I'm not just imagining
that there is. It's more effective and more sneaky, and I sure like
watching the results when people get their just desserts. ____________________
"When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I've never
tried before." ~Mae West
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callei
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 1/7/2003 at 04:15 AM |
Mono i nearly spit chocolate milk out thru my nose when i read that "shall
we grovel at the river" bit. Very timely as I live next to the Mississippi
(flood central) and that people gather there to, well not grovel per se,
but whine, barrate, cajole, and plead with it not to flood thier homes out
again.
I realize this was supposed to be about some Christian god thing, but
around here that god takes second place to the river god, at least in
hurricane season.
*shall we grovel 'round the river! snorts with laughter* ____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away.
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Monolycus
Fanatic Posts: 580 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 1/7/2003 at 02:00 PM |
Dense: That sounds like a sensible way to approach the problem.
Starlight: Got to be careful with that karma business... if you are only
doing what you ought to be doing out of fear of karmic retribution, you
aren't really able to mature as a being. It's a sticky point, but it's
like the little kid who does what is in their best interest not because
it's in their best interest, but they are afraid of getting caught. Once
again, it's a very fine point, because the advanced and the arrested end up
doing what is best for altogether different reasons. Also, according to
karma, if you are looking forward to someone getting their "just desserts"
(Schadenfreude), then you are wishing badness upon others... and according
to that model, karma will kick you for that as well.
I've abandoned the idea of karma (for the above reasons as well as a few
others) and adopted the Well of Wyrd model to explain cause-and-effect,
which is more serviceable and makes more sense to me.
Callei: If you are going to live on a riverbank, it just makes sense to be
on as good terms with the river god/s as you can. There's a drainage ditch
diety about a block from my house, and I leave the occasional votive
offerings for it. I doubt that drainage ditch diety would flood me out of
apartment-and-home, but I figure they are on good terms with the mosquito
diety and might put in a good word for me. It's all about delegation.
~M.
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KittyGoesMrow
Fanatic Posts: 218 Registered: 30/4/2003 Status: Offline
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posted on 23/3/2005 at 01:45 AM |
LOL Oh man... this was one of my better works.... I think I got high after
drawing with a permanent marker for too long and got possessed by spirits
and they made me right this  .... No way i came
up with that at 14 without some influence... ____________________
Anata ga sabishii toki, bokumo sabishii n da yo
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gothicmorman
Fanatic  Posts: 233 Registered: 11/7/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 25/3/2005 at 04:15 AM |
as far as i know the christian thingymabob says that jesus died for all our
sins so it is like automatic forgiveness so i would think that would
include suicide but then again lots of christians i have known throughout
my life including my mother say that if you commit suicide you go straight
to hell so hey who knows.
in the way i choose to look at spirituality everything exists all over.
every way of worshipping or believing and not in the "it is all one and the
same" way, i dont really like that much. but it is all different and it all
exists and works out in every way possible and it is all a way of living.
so anyone can believe in life in any different way and be comfortable with
it. i think i did not explain that very well but i hope in some way i have
gotten some part of my idea across.
inner flames, maybe, diminish when they are being forced into the wrong
context of living and maybe for some people they do need to turn to god for
the answers because maybe following god is the way the best suits them and
the best way to keep their flame alive but there are so many other ways to
turn to. if everyone had room for exploration we could all find the best
place in ourselves to be.
i think if the flame went out we kind of would be useless because it would
go out on the cause of us being in the wrong place mentally and how can we
achieve our full or even minimum potential if we are reaching for something
distant from it. like a woman trying to acheive an erection (just to throw
out an example).
everyone has a different point to living. maybe. everything about life and
the inner flame that drives us is set seperatly in each person but that
does not make us alone. people need other people, flames feed off each
other and together can grow and thrive. there is some kind of balance.
maybe. everyones individual purpose is part of life as a whole large scale
operation. life vibrates, it is magnetic, exhilerating. somehow everything
is connected and pulses on the same rhythm, like music (real music not the
four peice rock band type) all the different parts fitting together alone
the same beats to create a masterpiece. maybe.
you never really know with philosophy, lots of maybes but that is what make
it interesting. you dont have to stick to thinking one thing. you can think
all kind of opposing views but it doesnt really matter because at least one
of them or all of them or none of them is real. it is enjoyable.
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Schizo
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 897 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 25/3/2005 at 05:52 AM |
| The deal with suicide is, yes, according to Christian doctrine, it is a
sin. But most Christians agree that forgiveness for sin is only automatic
when paired with repentance. The only thing that makes suicide a
one-way-ticket to Hell is the fact that you really don't give yourself a
chance to repent afterwards. You sin and die at the same time. So it's
not the sin itself that screws you, it's the timing. So my take on it is -
don't kill yourself, instead move to Texas, kill someone else, repent, and
then let the death penalty take you. But the catch in this option is that
you have to really truly repent, which is hard when the whole thing was
planned. So I guess you're screwed anyway. Or so they say. ____________________
"You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the
dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest of
girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 25/3/2005 at 06:01 AM |
| ORRRR.... take some pills, and repent as you slip away... ____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
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gothicmorman
Fanatic Posts: 233 Registered: 11/7/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 25/3/2005 at 08:20 AM |
those are some good ideas- like if i was actually planning to commit
suicide. unfortunately i am not but i'll be sure to keep that in mind when
giving out advice.
a massive amount of what i have been taught stresses that all our sins are
ALREADY paid for though when jesus died so even though you dont really get
to repent for killing yourself you have already been forgivin years in
advance and he loves you anyway and takes you up to heaven and you can
repent there once realizing your terrible but irreversible mistake. one of
those new testament god turning über nice things...
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