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Anya
Extreme Fanatic   Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 9/6/2003 at 06:03 PM |
One of the posts here mentioned the word "possession" and I sometimes hear
cases on TV. I'm curious - what does everyone here think about "daemonic
possessions"?
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Dense
Member   Posts: 73 Registered: 5/6/2003 Status: Offline
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posted on 9/6/2003 at 10:45 PM |
| as for daemonic possessions... well that primary happens in politicians.
Hence there greed, lies, and love of nine year old kids. Yet this still
happens to everyday Joes. The tale tell signs are the capabilities to
contradict their-selves and still be able to sound as if they have not.
Also they are able to talk money out of people and make them happy to do
it. As for the child loving they lust to destroy some thing pure. Back in
the times of king they could still easily find eighteen year old virgin.
Yet times have changed. So for the cheap price of your soul you could have
all this and power. Come on it is just your soul what do you use it for. ____________________
i am a misunderstood genius... Nobody understands that i am a genius!
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Anya
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 9/6/2003 at 11:47 PM |
I try not to be too superstitious, but I do open my mind to the
possibilities of such. However, at the same time, some "possessed"
individuals may just have psychological problems as well. I'm somewhat
inclined to believe though that the most common "possession" is the Agent,
which basically is your corrupt leader of a temple or a political figure.
And I do not necessarily mean a political figure with just a few errors
here and there, I mean fascists and autocrats that care little for
humanity. Television tends to talk about the evil spirit thing a bit (and
there's loosely other sources that speak of it, especially in mysticism and
such), but on the other hand, a lot of people tried to use propaganda
against outcasted faiths and nationalities in the past...and still somewhat
do now.
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Dense
Member Posts: 73 Registered: 5/6/2003 Status: Offline
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posted on 10/6/2003 at 02:29 AM |
| I figure that the person possessed would inhert the properties of the
demon. I don't fully under-stand the question. If you are asking can it be
done well yes. Yet you could argue me on that with the bases that some
people do not reconize god/gods and devil/demon there for that persons
belief does not allow such beings to control a human ____________________
i am a misunderstood genius... Nobody understands that i am a genius!
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Abbadon
Fanatic   Posts: 499 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 10/6/2003 at 05:13 AM |
| The possession cases leading to the Salem witch trials were supposedly
caused by Ergot poisoning. But there is a strong history of exorcism
rituals all over Italy especially. ____________________
Light is changing to shadow, and casting a shroud over all we have known.
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Anya
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 10/6/2003 at 09:07 AM |
I didn't like the Salem Witch Trials, nor the Inquisition. Some of the
worst cases of atrocity next to the Crusades and the Holocaust. Again,
there were probably worse issues in history. But on this one exorcism
show, they claim that there was a girl who was abused all of her life,
which allowed an opening for possession. The results were the exorcist
taking 11 years to exorcise 56 spirits. However, as I said, I cannot
trust television all the time and think a lot of her problems were probably
psychological. Then again, I don't know everything and was not there
myself so I can't say that it's the absolute problem. I've honestly not
gotten big into that section of the occult yet - been trying to get more
sources on WitchCraft before I get into anything else. It's something I
want to do some research on eventually, though.
A friend of mine that practices magick says it can happen, but there's
others who practice magick that believe the opposite. Another pointed out
that the Exorcist was suppose to be based on a true story. But again, a
lot of published propaganda has done a good job to influence prejudice
against the unknown, as well.
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Dense
Member Posts: 73 Registered: 5/6/2003 Status: Offline
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posted on 10/6/2003 at 04:40 PM |
| Most cases of possession like all supernatural things go unreported. Due to
human nature that if it does not fit in to or natural world with an
explintion that is easyly swollowed than collectively it is ignored. ____________________
i am a misunderstood genius... Nobody understands that i am a genius!
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Anya
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 17/7/2003 at 07:09 AM |
Well an ex-exorcist admitted that he didn't think the possessions needed
anymore than psychological treatment. That is somewhat possible. But on
the other side of the coin, no one knows what is beyond the sciences and
evolutions.
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RavensSoul
Member  Posts: 63 Registered: 27/3/2003 Status: Offline
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posted on 17/7/2003 at 09:26 AM |
I don't know a lot about this, so I'm probably going to end up sounding
really stupid or like I'm just blabbing about something I know absolutely
nothing about *which is kinda true*, and this is just my speculation, so
it's open to criticism of any kind... but I think demonic posession, or
posession of any kind is based on both a persons spiritual beliefs and
their psychological wellness.
The way I see it, spiritual beliefs are what make you more of a target for
posession than someone who doesn't really believe in " a greater power."
Someone who is deeply religious has accepted the holy spirit, and I think
in accepting one spirit, be it good or evil, you kind of agree to accept
them all... kind of like how they say, if you marry someone, you're
marrying their whole family... anyways... as I was saying. The first thing
is accepting spirits.
Psychological problems are the other thing.. If you're mentally fucked up,
for whatever reason... You're probably feeling some sort of pain...
emotional or phsycial, depending on how you respond to your mental
problems.. some people just hold it all in *emotional pain* others take it
out, either on themselves or others * physical pain* Thats something that,
supposedly, spirits can relate to, because it's widely believed that
spirits that remain on Earth are restless because they experienced a lot of
pain in life, or a very traumatizing, horrific death.
*Putting 2 and 2 together now* I think posessions happen because, a person
has already accepted the existance of spirits and most of the time, they
have experienced some sort of pain, maybe similar to that which the spirit
had previosly experienced, therefore making them a prime host for a spirit
seeking a humanly body, because they shared similar experiences and
feelings in life... or possibly in death. ____________________
In my eyes, to be human is not to be able to live and die, but it is to
feel pain, love, happiness, and all other things that keep our hearts from
freezing over into the bloody ice that distinguishes man from the beasts of
night.
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Anya
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 17/7/2003 at 11:25 AM |
That is quite true. Put enough faith into something and it can usually
happen.
There's also been cases of people being in some sort of trance called the
"zombie" state. But I think that was defined as a drug made from the
poison of the blowfish. An interesting way of con-artisting, heh. Some of
the people out there claiming to do powers insanely beyond human potential
though kind of make me play skeptic. They not only are usually
con-artists, but they give the occult a bad name.
*rubs my eyes* Speaking gibberish here for I just woke up here...
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 17/7/2003 at 02:22 PM |
Abbadon, the cause of the Salem trials was due to a bunch of bored teenage
girls living in a tightly repressed society which developed into mass
hysteria and a war between old grudges and social tensions within the
village. It was basically a big fat catharsis for relieving the social,
sexual, and emotional repressions of puritan life. Mass hysteria can be as
strong as a psychoactive rye fungus if drama is your drug of choice. Ergot
IS responsible for many ancient complaints of "sorcery" such as
"werewolves" and "witches", but not the infamous salem kind. That, my
friend, was pure teenage hormons on a rampage.
As for demonic posession, I believe most of it is pure bunk. Most cases in
the history if "posession" can easily be attributed to mental illness, but
such ideas weren't around then. A few of them that I've read seem to be
not as easily explained. I watched an old documentary on HBO last night
called "by satan posessed", and a LOT of the people in that documentary had
NO IDEA they were "posessed" until whichever cultish xian group they joined
TOLD them they were. They went to the pastors for guidance or counseling
for everything from marital problems to old wounds of sexual abuse, and
were sucked into a cult of the "posessed", brainwashed into believing
hiddeous lies about their FAMILY, and then alienated them from their loved
ones. One pastor had a group of 15 "members" that he was trying to "save",
and had them all convinced that one girl's own father (and his subsequent
family) was a nation wide ring leader in satanic sexual abuse, and that
SOMEHOW god had lead them ALL to ONE church (his of course) for HIM to
save. The girl cut off all ties to her family, and she and her husband
spent all of their time in the church trying to cast out her demon. The
preist notified the FBI, who grilled her parents and her family, even went
so far as to investigate an uncle simply because he owned a yacht called
the "witch way", and when he said that he'd bought it third hand from
someone he didn't know and that it CAME with the name, they assumed he'd
bought it from a fellow satanic molestation cult member! In essence this
"cult" tore her family apart, implanted false memories (that she
connveniently now will have to undergo therapy by the same said minister),
and is part of a cult that has one thing in common: they all think her
father is an international satanic sex predator.
Another woman went into counseling for depression and was "helped to
remember" being impregnated as a teenager by her father's satanic cult and
then forced to carry the baby to term and then sacrifice it, yet refuses
medical exams that would lay to rest the idea of whether or not she'd ever
given birth.
To me, every single one of these "counselors" should be held accountable
for psychological/emotional sabotage, and even abuse.
ONe person that deals in this field that I have some respect for is the
late Dr. Malachi Martin (often heard on coast to coast AM when Art Bell was
still on). He dealt with it in a matter of fact way, not glorifying or
overdramatising posession. He said there were varying degrees...some where
an evil spirit invades a body, making it sick, or takes over the body
entirely to act out it's own agenda. He also believes that there are
people walking about who, in his words, are "perfectly posessed". They
show no signs, no ailments of a "posession", but in turn have made a "deal"
not unlike a deal with the devil.
He's an interesting man, you should look up old shows that feature him as
the guest, it's entertaining if nothing else.
I'm not so sure I even believe in "evil" spirits. I believe that people go
crazy, I believe it can happen with no outside trigger (more like an
internal chemical malfunction), and it can happen suddenly. I figure I"ll
know when it happens to me, I guess :p ____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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Anya
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 17/7/2003 at 02:40 PM |
Bettie's right. The Salem Witch trials was done by some pranking teenage
girls. Lead to a fair amount of people killed. Like the Inquisition,
there were women of great influence that were caught up in the deal. My,
my, what a surprise. Funny enough, though, this event has constantly
repeated itself in some form or another in history...well I take that back,
not funny - amazing would be a more proper term.
I heard of Dr. Martin. That's the guy I was referring to who said that a
lot of the stuff could be dealt with by psychological treatment. As I
said, for myself, I would not be surprised if there was such tormented
spirits on the Material Plane, but on the other side of the coin, a lot of
the possession issues came from the lack of information on psychology and
such.
While I'm superstitious, I do not really think people are possessed just
because they're not part of some religion or something on the lines. For
some reason, I have this gut feeling that 30% of these possession issues
come from people wanting to keep others in control. Inner harmony doesn't
always require religious guidance. Frankly, I've seen as many insane
as any other religion.
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Anya
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 17/7/2003 at 02:44 PM |
As for ergot, I don't recall that term. I may know it by another name, but
of course, I'm not an expert at this stuff. There was an extract that
acted as a form of hallucinogens, though. It made people believe they were
really flying and all of that "witch" stereotype stuff. This dates back to
the Dark Ages, though.
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bettie_x
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 1570 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 17/7/2003 at 11:03 PM |
Ergot is a fungus with psychoactive properties that grows on the hops of
rye and barley, and when injested (which a lot of it was, back then, they
didn't waste "perfectly good food" because it was a little...fungusy) it
lead to crazy ass hallucinations. There is a written account of a rash
of werewolves in a european community, and when scientists who study that
sort of shit checked the weather patterns of that year's summer, they found
the conditions perfect for the flourishing of ergot in their crops (it also
occured in the winter time, when the harvested poisoned grains were
consumed), hence the wide spread hallucinations.
In the Salem trials, not just the affluent and not just women were
persecuted, it was the rich, poor, destitute, those who had prosperous
harvests while other's crops failed, they were accused of witchcraft
because of land disputes (an easy way to increase your acerage by having
your neighbor hung), illnesses, deaths, having more healthy children than
the woman next door, personal quarrels, or just because they were THERE. I
believe that 5 men were killed, small compared to the women's death toll,
but of those women they were elderly and kind, young and beautiful, rich,
poor, and all because some bored teenagers were dancing (a huge sin in the
puritanical communities) in the woods with a cuban slave and got caught.
So they did what all young girls do, they lied through their teeth, created
elaborate stories, and carried it entirely too far to the point there was
absolutely NO WAY to stop it. ____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
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