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Author: Subject: Pfffft, suicide?






Posts: 116
Registered: 14/4/2002
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  posted on 31/8/2002 at 09:19 AM
This is sort of a follow up forum on ThatOneWastedChick´s story-The Boyfriend Article. Now I can understand a girl or guy at ANY age being angry about something like a backstabbing friend. But at 13 feeling incomplete without a guy is crazy.
Women have strived for independence. To be more than just a mother or a housewife, or a teacher. To do "man" jobs; construction, running a business. They´ve done a lot without having a man by their side and who says that a 13 year old girl needs a guy? She was very right, girls need to be focusing more on school rather than the opposite sex.
But seriously, look at the times. Guys go around calling all women "bitches" and they think they´re all thugs and pimps. There´s absolutely NO respect whatsoever with these guys. But the girls are so straight forward! It´s like they´ve never heard of playing hard to get. Really it just makes them look like little sluts. I see it all the time. But what can you expect? What with their new "freak dancing." And people thought the jitter bug was bad. Freak dancing is like having sex on the dance floor. I´d rather waltz!
Now I´ve seen the girls and how they just hover over the guys. At a varsity football game last night it was terrible. I was sitting with a bunch of my gal pals and all the other girls were touching and grabbing and kissing and hugging on these guys. We´re talking about 13 and 14 year old girls.
Shouldn´t kids still be a little bit afraid of the opposite sex or am I just really really really old fashioned? I mean, should the girls really be fearless enough to go around grabbing guys..you know where.
When the teacher asked "what are you interested in" half the girls in my class said "boys." The teacher was talking about careers. So what, they want to be prostitutes? Maybe I´m being too harsh.
At this age it should be more along the lines of, when you have a "boyfriend" hes a boy thats a friend that you might kiss once in a while that you can talk to. Not someone that you get it on with an hour after dating.
Seriously though, suicide? Now none of the girls I know have ever contemplated suicide over a guy. No one needs friends who are that hung up over guys, really. They just drain your energy and they don´t take your advice. When they do they don´t appreciate it.
The girls don´t realize the consequences of their actions either. They earn titles that aren´t flattering and there are a lot of STD´s out there. Going to clubs and getting it on with guys they´ve known for an hour isn´t very smart but they´ll do it.
If a guy really thinks I´m going to stand for rude questions and actions he´s got another thing coming. It seems like theres only three or four girls who demand respect, three of four girls at my school who are right in the mind! You can´t really blame it all on these guys though. The "popular" girls encourage it and I guess naturally they think all girls will stand for it. Sexual harassment is at an all time high in my school but no one seems to call it that. It´s what they want. I´ve reported it several times and I´ve gotten guys suspended for it.
You grab me, I´ll slap you. It´s just the way it works. If girls don´t stand up for themselves when it comes to this stuff then guys think they own them. And they´re right, actually, because then the girls don´t say no to anything. When you´re 13 you shouldn´t be giving guys what they want and there´s no way horomones is a valid excuse.
How could a 13 year old girl possibly respect herself after that? That all would only lead to low self esteem. Keep focused on what you´re going to do with your life and then see if you can fit CASUAL dating in LATER. It´s not like the guys are going anywhere.

 

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  posted on 31/8/2002 at 09:22 AM
I posted that.

 

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"Pity no one was there
No angels in the air
And the morning paper ran
One more suicide"

 

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  posted on 31/8/2002 at 01:26 PM
Who wants to live forever, when love must die?

 

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Light is changing to shadow, and casting a shroud over all we have known.

 

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Registered: 31/12/1969
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  posted on 31/8/2002 at 03:29 PM
Very good points, I have noticed this too. Many of your personal beliefs about relationships, conflict with my point of view on the subject. For example I strongly believe that a boyfriend/girlfriend SHOULD be your friend. Anyone you are going to be intimate with and share an emotional bond with should be your friend, period. The idea of dating and not being friends, I think starts this disrespectful attitude between the two sexes. If you are someone´s friend, why would you disrespect them?(... you wouldn‘t)
Love for me spans no differently from parents to children, among friends, and partners. But with a partner you add more intimacy and maybe a sexual influence: in the end I feel it is all still love and hopefully friendship. If people aren’t going to be friends and be intimate, they might as well simply call it procreating, or prostitution.
Also the playing hard to get thing, though in some situations is ‘ok’ as a defense mechanism to see if the guy can be “committed”, can sometimes make guys loose interest and hurt their feelings. I understand this truth quite well.
“Why didn’t you chase me” said the girl.
“Because after six months I thought you weren’t interested.” ... Duh ladies...... ( A Cashmere quote mocking this situation he he he)
This idea of love and not friends has been started by a new social standard set by the media. Here it seems that the only guys girls talk to in teen television shows, are either boyfriends or gay. Generation “D”, my generation, models their relationship philosophy on peers, television shows like Dawson’s Creek (which is highly unrealistic), and teeny magazines.
The new generation “D” has reinvented the gender roles we all know and love from the 1950’s. However, sex is no longer a taboo, it is stressed as a staple and widely promoted. For example girls clothing: If you walk into the ‘limited too‘ , you will see cleavage/belly shirts with glitter/sequence covering it and mindless sayings like “glitter princess” and “go pop Inc.”. These are targeted for 9-17 year olds. My favorite thing is Abercrombie released a line of g-string underwear targeted towards 8 year olds. Yes 8 year olds. These clothes don’t say, “I have a mind. I am a person” rather they seem to say “I am a dish in a teenage pussy buffet.”
This newest generation of women have taken nearly a century of battles for women´s rights, trashing all respect and power women have gained so they can wear shitty expensive clothes and lip gloss. They lost what is truly attractive in a woman, and replaced it with a exaggerated version of super femininity. Super tight clothes, and flesh exposed everywhere. It isn’t attractive at all, more pornographic (in a ugly way... fecal porn ugly).
Society, and the media tells this new generation of girls to be naive, pretty, jewel covered, mammary lugging, flesh objects. The best illustration I have seen of this point is the show “Sorority Girls”. A bunch of ignorant terrible examples of what the human race can become, all sit around, basted in bright make up, discussing superficial issues like they are really important. They think what color their cell phone cover is will reflect what kind of a person, or how attractive they are. All of these girls I have seen only seem to be discussing their boyfriends and nothing more. They feel to be complete they most have a boyfriend.
(Do keep in mind that I am judging by a majority, this does not apply to everyone.)
In my opinion and by STATE LAW, 13 year olds should not be having sex. Also dating I feel shouldn’t be instigated until at least 15. Teenagers don’t have the sanity to deal with life, much less have a relationship. No wonder they are attempting suicide. That is a lot of work for a subject that is completely and obviously foreign to them. These young girls have no self respect, and the all seem to have “White Knight Syndrome” thinking that every guy they are with is going to be perfect and fantastic. This leads to them being easily abused. They are made into sex objects and called bitches, but as long as their boyfriend buys them a new gold name plate it makes it all ok.
Everyone should start sex education and relationship philosophy when they are 7 or 8. This would help them understand the issues, rather than running into a trial and error situation or ideas made by contemporary teenage television. Don’t worry, this will not strip the children of their charming innocence... but ask yourself what is the difference between innocence and ignorance?
And to guys: I think all guys need to hear this. Young boys in generation D are fairly emotionless (No crying! be an man) and conservative. They are homophobic and highly patriotic. So homophobic, if they show too much care or intimacy for someone that are mocked and called ’faggot’ (mainly from their peers talking about the subject and his girlfriend). I have heard time and time again they feel women “Should stay home with the kids.”, and similar kinds of attitude. These boys (as well as many past American generations) are told by society they must be promiscuous yet not intimate. This leads them to mistreat women, (acting and believing their penis makes them superior) and they must have as many girls as humanly possible. It isn’t a wonder 80% of women don’t have orgasms, and 60% fake them (Berman &Berman: Discovery Health Channel). Men need to explore their socially suppressed emotions and intimacy I know I didn’t understand what sex really was until recently (and still I have much to learn). I feel this idea of having a girl friend and not caring about her like a friend leads to abuse and misery of both parties, but society seems to permit it as long as it looks good on the surface. I think all boys in my generation should have a boyfriend just once, so they can be used and treated the exact same way they treat women. No one enjoys feeling like worthless garbage. This will open a whole new perspective on how to treat a partner. If the parents of generation D are at a 50% divorce rate, what will be the divorce rate of generation D itself? These situations of abuse, neglect, absent emotions, and lack of love and intimacy will lead to destruction. :cry:

 

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The OBOLISK is Divine.

 

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  posted on 31/8/2002 at 06:27 PM
Women DID work very hard to be taken seriously and that´s all just gone straight down the tube. Now get this..the girls will approach eachother, or the guys will approach the girls and they´ll ask "1,2 or 3?" They´re talking about thongs. 1 as in the underwear, 2 as in the shoes or 3 as in both. Why would you ask somebody that? I mean, why would you even care?
That´s really sick about the 8 year olds and G strings. Don´t get me started on porn... I notice these girls all around me could use their brains but they don´t. A lot of these girls really aren´t living up to their full potential. It´s not right that a 13 year old girl is considered the town slut. I´ve watched one of my best friends go through that and it was horrible, but you know what? She´s officially "popular" and not my friend anymore. If these girls have real dreams as in what they will do for a career then they´ll be smashed by pregnancies. Studies prove that teaching kids about sex when they´re younger helps them make wiser decisions when they´re older.
I went to this club with some girls and I left in less than a half hour because it was just disgusting. Not only the crappy music but the guys and the girls and the way they danced.
I notice how my dad is homophobic, how he always tells me I should only "speak when spoken too" as if I´m a servant. He tries to put it on my brother to be "a man" and to treat women how they "should" be treated.
I have one guy friend that I can spend hours with just talking about art and school and you know, important things. He´s never disrespected me in any way and that´s what makes him a real gentleman.
We would be sitting in a local resteraunt and some of the girls who like to "flaunt there stuff" will come in with a herd of guys grabbing at them. They giggle and bat their eyelashes and have way too much make up on. Young girls don´t generally HAVE a lot of stuff.
Girls who are younger than 13 have NUDE parties with GUYS invited and the mothers don´t do a damn thing. That sort of thing is called poor parenting and it´s wrong. It´s beyond wrong, their kids should be taken away.
I do believe that to have a good relationship there should be friendship. What do you have without it? You know I´m fairly young and to me a boyfriend is basically a guy who is a friend, a guy who I can talk to about important things and a guy who will respect me.
My parents aren´t divorced but I see lack of respect all the time. He slaps her but its a joke, she´s stupid, its a joke.
You´re right about the clothing though, definately. You can´t buy shorts for teen girls that will prevent your legs from sticking to the chair in class. That´s why I prefer pants and thats why I wear sweaters instead of t-shirts with really low necklines.
I also don´t think it´s right that when a guy ´´gets some" he goes and tells every one of his pals. I hear it all the time with my brother´s friends and they talk about it like it´s their right. Like they deserve some sort of medal for getting some. Sure, I´ll give you some metal right to your temples.
Now thanks to the media and to the stupid girls who flaunt their bodies I have to work ten times as hard to get some respect. If I´m refered to as somebody´s bitch I´m going to snap. If I get called some inappropriate, undeservered name I´m going to snap.
I think you´re right in that guys should have a boyfriend atleast once. I´d rather they treat eachother like garbage than treat me like garbage. But it also seems to be what the girls expect, and they take it with a giggle and a big smile.

 

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"Pity no one was there

No angels in the air

And the morning paper ran

One more suicide"

 

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  posted on 31/8/2002 at 11:38 PM
I just have to add to this -
Love, like hate, never dies.

 

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but at least you know, just how much pain there is in living
 

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  posted on 1/9/2002 at 12:09 AM
I´m alright with the dirty dancing. Its rather fun, and it doesn´t hurt anyone, really. I don´t think its any worse than polyamory.
Second, if you have a good body, you should show it. We all need more beauty in the world.
Third, I don´t think the problem would be helped any by having boys have boyfriends. Boys already have them. They´re usually just called ´friends´. And there´s still a lack of free emotion.

But I do agree that little kids shouldn´t be looking up to wax-figures like Brittany Spears. She´s a freakin´ figurehead, for chrissakes. She doesn´t -do- anything important at all, and I think that´s where we went wrong.
The society we live in values popularity more than real face value. Just a few years ago, people were snapping up SUVs, even though they had no practical use for them. People -still- are buying them!
A wave of patriotism washes over the country, and the majority of the population is ready to give up their freedom for ´security reasons´. That´s bull, we all know.
But the wars of culture are fought with either numbers, or money. And unless a majority of people wake up to the whoring of America, or a major corporation encourages simple living (hugely unlikely), the culture will take its own route. To hell, if it is blind enough. Just watch your feet so that you are sure you´re not following them.

 

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  posted on 1/9/2002 at 12:20 AM
Brittany Spears = Cash cow.
Literally.

 

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SRC="http://www.rpgclassics.com/shrines/snes/ff6/images/characters/kefka.gi
f"> size=1> but at least you know, just how much pain there is in living

 

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  posted on 1/9/2002 at 12:47 AM
Poor brittany...you guys are so hard on her, and as often as she visits "goth" sites on the net, I think I hear her heart breaking as we speak*cocks ear to the window*
*snicker*
Tho, you have to admit, she does no more or less that most of the "artists" some of us listen to, you know...she just sings and is good at it (very good, even if you don´t like her music the girl´s got some pipes) and got really really famous making her a "sell out".
I´m not getting into the music bit, but it´s late and I"m rambling and you KNOW I need sleep when I´m half heartedly defending brittany spears....
ANyhoo.
Sex and "relationships" are all little girls think about.
It´s sad.
THe only thing I disagree with you on, court, is the white knight syndrome. I think most of that is saved for little girls that still believe in fairy tales, which is fine, as it´s a part of childhood.
Most women really DON´T want their white knight.
They want the tough, rough and tumble, arrogant RICH SUCCESSFUL money clip. Then cry to their manicurist and commiserating "friends" because he´s an alcoholic or beats them or cheats or doesn´t pay attention to them. They dont´ want a white knight, they want drama because it´s the only exciting factor in their dull sad lives.
The nice guy they all want is that guy friend they have...the one they cry on, do LUNCH with, do "FRIEND" things with, and coo and coddle with their other friends while he´s not around about what a GREAT guy he is, and why can´t ALL guys be like him, and wouldn´t it be GREAT to have a guy like him and hey, since my boyfriend/husband felt bad for smacking the shit out of me he had me go get my nails done and the manicurist actually was able to match the purple polish to my black eye!
There´s nothing wrong with being feminine, sexy, attractive, fake boobs (within reason, mind you) or flaunting your body as long as you FULL accept the consequences of such...the occasional catcall, come on, sleaze bag and whathaveyous.
People will always be attracted by the possibility of sex. When someone asks you what made you "interested" in someone else, and they say "his mind" that´s BS because you CAN´T tell someone´s "mind" from halway across a crowded class, bar, park or club. It´s sex. Good to have a mind behind it, especially for the relationship inclined, but sex will always be the INITIAL motivating factor. You can lure a fly with honey better than with a mullett.
I don´t think girls should be sex objects, or objectified, but most women now who rally against it with their feminist banners DO THE SAME OR WORSE. "OOO porn is so DEGRADING and makes all women look like GLORY HOLES....hey, I heard that chippendale´s is in town, how ´bout a GIRLS NIGHT OUT!"
I just don´t deal well with double standards or hypocrites....and a lot of these "feminists" give the real feminists out there a really bad name. Make ´em all look like castrating bitches and pseudo nazi ball bashing man haters.
While they in turn dress their little girls in lace up pants and belly shirts that have "princess" and "brat" and "spoiled rotten" emblazoned on them.

WHen I was a little girl I looked like a little girl.
Now it´s like miniature club hopping hoochiemommas taught that men are pigs, women are dominant, and that you can get what you want flashing a little leg ´cause they´re retarded and only think with their pants. Hence the little girls are taught sex from the beginning. How to use it. How to abuse it. I´m dreading this generation growing up and seeing how they turn out. Castrated boys furiously trying to regain their manhood in idiot and dangerous and caveman ways, little girls sitting smugly like diamond sparkled gloryholes...´cause afterall kids..it´s just SEX.

 

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  posted on 1/9/2002 at 01:07 AM
You gotta admit though, when Brittany sings, she sounds like she´s being choked.

"uuuhhh bayba bayba."

I wonder if she is reading this right now.
heh.
Ah, that´d be something.
Time to play some GTA3.

 

____________________

SRC="http://www.rpgclassics.com/shrines/snes/ff6/images/characters/kefka.gi


f"> HREF="http://www.pathetic.org/library.php?i_memberid=2042">
size=1> but at least you know, just how much pain there is in living

 

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  posted on 1/9/2002 at 01:32 AM
Ehhhhh, not always just sex... biting too.

 

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The OBOLISK is Divine.

 

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  posted on 1/9/2002 at 02:59 AM
Any time is a good time for GTA3!

 

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  posted on 1/9/2002 at 08:24 AM
up until a few years ago (historically speaking) 13 was a "good" age for a girl to start being a sexual creature. even 30 years ago you were an old maid if you were married with kids by 18.
physically it is normal for 12 year old girls to start wanting to get some, thier bodies are ready, or nearly ready, to have babies. after all it wasnt very long ago that girls were put on the marriage market at 15-16 and if they waited until they were 18 to deb, they were considered socially backward, undesirable, and old maids. engagment at 17 marriage at 18 was "normal" up until the 2nd world war, some 50 years ago.
yeah, your grandmothers´ time.
Why should these girls suppress thier sexuality so that boys arent lead "astray"?
Socially a woman still has power based on the size of her boobs, the shape of her legs, and the fullness of her lips. Why shouldnt these girls start learning how to function in the sociaty in which they live?
bikinis were sooo risque that women got arrested for wearing them( last arrest something like 1975 or so), now it is normal for kids to wear them.

boys used to have to wear clothes head to toe all the time too! now they are "allowed" to wear tee-shirts, shorts, no tie (except at some schools), and sandals! a guy wearing "normal" summer clothes by today´s fashions would have been locked up for indecent exposure as little as 50 years ago. but only after he had been beaten up.

the point being that fashion and social mores change, but both are there to make sure the human race continues.

 

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  posted on 1/9/2002 at 09:07 AM
I am going to apply the bell curve theory to this. Not everything progresses forever. And preteens should not be fucking callei.... If you want that, I will send you the newborns since the mothers will be unable to care for them, and all abortion clinic biological waste by the bucketful that is produced as well.
I am a fashion nazi, those clothes defeat the purpose of clothing. I insist that we all stop wearing clothes if this trend continues. If we are all going to be this tacky and naked, might as well go all the way and create a nudist society.... We can just carry blankets if we get cold and have the need to fuck a preteen. (because that´s the way the have done it for millennia and in the middle east.. that makes it right).
Oh and I say this because in modern American society you are considered subhuman as far as rights go until you are 18. You are a legal adult when you are 18, not 13... I was not speaking of stripping the sexuality of these teens, but I still do not think preteens should be fucking. There are laws that will support me as well. In the American culture (and I am sure I should not be arguing with you about sociology but I think you must be drunk) it is not accepted to have sex and children at 13 years of age.

 

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The OBOLISK is Divine.

 

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  posted on 1/9/2002 at 09:24 AM
Oh and the 18 years of age thing being an oldish age to have kids, was because the human life span was much shorter. When people were 18 say in the middle ages, they were (no pun intended) middle aged. Today the life span is longer hence the socially acceptable age range for sex and recreational adult things is 18 or 21. (I know you know this) O_O

 

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  posted on 1/9/2002 at 11:18 AM
going by laws, the age of consent is somewhere between 12 and never. Preteen means under 13. thirTEEN is teen. I am not advocating teen sex as such, its not my job. Teens will continue to have sex the same as they always have.
At what age to you think a person is old enough to start accepting that nature wants them to breed? 16 when they are legal to use heavy machinery (unless they live on a farm and then the age is more like 12-14 in most states)? 14 when most uni-god religions accept boys as men (even tho females mature faster)? 18 when you stop being owned by your parents (for the most part) and are therefor liabel for yourself? How about 21; that is the age, in states that allow it at all, that you are finally old enough to go into shops that sell sexual items?

As far as teen abortion (one of the effects of sex), there are fewer unweb teen mothers today that there has EVER been in the history of the US, by pure numbers. The average age of a woman that has an abortion is more like 25 than 13.

And for the record, owning your sexuality DOES NOT mean having sex that may lead to babies. What about masterbation? What about kissing? What about cuddling? What about sexy thoughts? Are these not "sexual behavior" as well?

Is it somehow Wrong that women get horny? Even young women before being old enough to vote? Are they not allowed to enjoy thier own bodies and the appriciate the bodies of others? Are you really suggesting that you have the right to regulate someone else´s sexuality so much so that it is illegal (as in you go to jail) for it? Arent we past regulating sexuality? isnt that a big part of the gay pride movement, the urban tribal movement, feminism, and so many more that i could list.

Just because people live longer does not mean that the best age to have kids, biologically, has changed. pregnancy in the late 20s to 30s is considered an "At Risk" pregnancy. the 40s are always called high risk. There is also copious medical research that indicates that the older your father is at the time of your conception, the shorter your life will be. The idea being that old sperm has more mutations than younger sperm.
The older you are as a woman when you have kids, the harder it is on your body, including skeleton and organs, and the older your eggs are. The rate of birth defects in children born to mothers over 30 as compared to those born to mothers under 20 is quite wide.

i know you are too bright to buy into the idea the laws ( you must be 18 no matter how long you have had boobs and a mind of your own) are there to protect girls. I know you are bright enough to know that those laws are there and are acted on to reinforce the idea that sex is bad, women are evil, stupid and property, and men are animals.
After all the 3 best ways to control or torture people are thru food, sex, and sleep.
alarm clocks, diets, and sex as sin are all great ways to keep people feeling bad about themselves and shameful and thereby controling large populations thru ye olde "divide and conquer".

How old is old enough to you? go on tell me you little flirt...

 

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away.

 

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  posted on 1/9/2002 at 12:03 PM
white night syndrome? hmmm. *skritches head*

Sticupus change your icon!

:-P

 

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  posted on 1/9/2002 at 12:27 PM
Fifteen. I think Fifteen you may have the compasity to start sexuality activity. 17 is a good age to have sexual intercourse. Yes, I agree about the age in conjunction with child birth, somewhat genetically healthier and safer. And I have absolutely no shame towards sex (for christ´s sakes I date men sometimes). As for masturbation, fore play, etc. I recommend it (am a neglected nympho, I think there should be more)! But intercourse is too risky for a young American teenager to be having. I cannot enforce this upon anyone, NOR would I. And when I was referring to age being a factor, I was pointing towards both sexes. Also I said sexuality and relationship philosophy should begin at the latest age 8. People need to be educated. Callei do you honestly believe with the sex education provided by American public schools really teaches them anything important? Does it teach them anything other than shame of sex, vague ideas of relationships, naiveté of the mechanics of the human body (mainly reproductive system), and a paranoid fear of STDs? Sex should not be something to fear or shame, I would never think like that. Because of the system, I don’t think teens (as well as many adults) are having sex and understanding it. I think they are just fucking because they have an urge to, and it seems like they should. There is no sentience in that. What makes that more special than another animal? In that case, I propose more bestiality and sex with inanimate objects. Might as well fuck things that don’t think about it as well.
We cannot stop young teenagers having sex, nor should we. But I think they take it to a dark place, confused and structured by non-sequitr ideas invented by the media and society. I think teens need enrichment! Not vile relationships, infected genitals, and a baby.....
(now the one sided angsty teen opinion section)
And I have never said anything against women, but fuck my generation of females (except Cashmere, she is a shining example of woman). Perhaps they will grow up some day, but it doesn’t look like it. I said my generation of girls were a disgrace to what the feminist revolution stood for. They have become property: I want a cattle prod. I want to cattle prod them to a ranch, give them feed bags, and tape their eyelids open, and force them to watch hours of documentaries on women´s history. Other wise I am just going to open up a brothel, these girls aren’t going to amount to nothing more. Might was well make profit.
And men!!!! They suck statistically towards sex! They need to be educated too, just like the women. Same scenario, same women’s history lesson. The average American male can’t cry! What kind of culture does that? And how are they supposed to appreciate a partner without emotion? (again mindless fucking. it’s pointless.)
On another note, I know more about female (and obviously male too) than every girl I have talked to in my school (again with the exception of cashmere)
I say “Labia”
They say “Is that a herb?”

 

____________________
The OBOLISK is Divine.

 

Fanatic




Posts: 254
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/9/2002 at 12:28 PM
No Ryoko is mine! :-x

 

____________________
The OBOLISK is Divine.

 

Fanatic




Posts: 522
Registered: 6/7/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/9/2002 at 12:45 PM
About GTA3, it´s fun to beat people with bats. *smiles*

 

____________________


SRC="http://www.rpgclassics.com/shrines/snes/ff6/images/characters/kefka.gi





f">
HREF="http://www.pathetic.org/library.php?i_memberid=2042"> />
size=1> but at least you know, just how much pain there is in living

 
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