From the lowliest of insects to our human selves, most species are broken
down into two genders. Each has developed, with varying degrees of success,
a useful means of communication between the sexes (I'm rather partial to
the Praying Mantis and Black Widow Spider, myself).
Each except humans, that is.
So why, in this age of super computers, cellular phones, and instant
J-ELLO, can't we figure out how to talk to one another?
I suppose if I knew the answer to that one, I'd be a bestselling author
whose book title formats are borrowed for web pages. Instead, I'm just a
cynical curmudgeon who's beginning to wonder if the whole thing is even
worth the effort. And who's tired of limiting his complaining to every
friend who will listen.
____________________ Chasity - the most unnatural of all sexual perversions...
Alugarde
Member
Posts: 185 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 29/4/2004 at 09:33 PM
Having gone through some recent girl problems myself, I can understand your
cynicism. The simple answer, as far as I can tell, is that animals can
evolve to higher forms of intelligence all they want, but the moment they
qualify for sentience, their IQ drops through the floor, no matter what any
test may say. With sentience comes the capacity to do something for less
than altruistic reasons. And wether their actions are almost entirely
altruistic, or grossly malevelont in nature, everyone at one point or
another screws up. Sometimes it's your fault things are screwing up,
sometimes it's theirs. Either way, it happens. Not much that can be done
about it besides being careful.
I wouldn't go so far as to say that women are evil, though. Just that
people, men and women alike, are idiots.
____________________ l33t is the bastard cousin of contractions.
angel_of_death
Member
Posts: 119 Registered: 4/4/2004 Status: Offline
posted on 29/4/2004 at 11:39 PM
correction: woman are evil (well i am)
the way men and women communicate is not with words, but by flirting!
that is why words dont work, words are complicated, flirting is simple.
women are evil for doing it, men as dumb for falling for it.
it really is that simple.
____________________ I know whats it like to want to die, how it hurts to smile, how you try to
fit in but you can't, how you hurt yourself on the outside, to try to kill
the pain in the inside.
IamSquid
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 658 Registered: 27/5/2002 Status: Offline
posted on 30/4/2004 at 12:42 AM
My advice: Violence!
____________________
i wanted to die, and then it progressed into wanting everyone else to
die so i could watch, and then me die.
-ickgirl
callei
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 30/4/2004 at 05:17 AM
"words are complicated, flirting is simple. women are evil for doing it,
men as dumb for falling for it."
Can you explain why women are evil for communicating and men are dumb for
"falling for it" by communicating with them? OR is this just that standard
"women are evil because men lust after them" Christian arguement that has
justified raping someone if they leave the house? I really am curious.
____________________ Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away.
callei
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 30/4/2004 at 05:24 AM
As to why we (the sexes) cant communicate, its because so often we arent
talking about the same thing. you tell them you had a shity day and life
sucks and it all sucks and they burst into tears, lock themselves in the
bathroom, and you dont get laid for a week. and you never know "what you
did".
Here is a clue, she is listening from her life, you are talking from your
life. THEY ARE DIFFERNT. you cant fix her life, she cant fix yours. you
cant make the day better, nor can she for you. And no one else speaks your
personal language (that one we all use to bitch, when we are thinking
faster than we are talking, or when we are talking about personal things)
so even if they want to understand, they cant. the words dont mean the same
thing to them that they do to you.
and no, i dont have a self help relationship book out yet. But i am
hopeful....
____________________ Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away.
Zero
Fanatic
Posts: 459 Registered: 15/2/2004 Status: Offline
posted on 30/4/2004 at 12:04 PM
(This is interesting....)
personally i like to compare human mating habits with those of other
species of mammals...it all seems the same to me...mostly because the older
i get the more cynical i get...it just seems to me that it's all so
transparent....the way people act in order to find a "suitable" mate in
order to pass on their genes...even though our sentience comes into screw
the natural order of things...it all just seems the same....(look at the
male peacok and then compare that to the way men dress and flaunt money
around)... It's all the same...most women (seem) to go for the bread
winners, the hunter gatherers....and it makes perfect sense when you think
of it the way you think of the mating habits of gorrillas...the strongest
biggest males are the ones that get to mate and passs on their genes..the
others are just left without getting any ass....lol
____________________ "It is a fool's prerogative to utter truths that no one else will speak." ~
The Sandman, Dream Country
Squire-of-Gothos
Fanatic
Posts: 206 Registered: 1/1/2003 Status: Offline
posted on 30/4/2004 at 02:16 PM
I know cinism has a tendency to make mating rituals of the human persuasion
seem "transparent", not to mention the leagues of todays youths, to whom
flirting equates to "Holla showtee, lemme get dem digits" Now don't get me
wrong; I'm all fo' the showtee's givin' me them numbas so I can get my
freak on, or whatever the hell the kids are sayign these days, but our
issues with intersex communication are pretty deep, and pretty complicated.
Mainly becuase of individualism, alternate motives, cultural differences,
etc. I mean if some black clad goff wanted to ask the cheerleader out;
unless they were both mature, right thinking, open minded individuals who
didn't care about possible ridicule from other, less open people (99.9% of
population) it would be like a bird rufling it's colored feathers and doing
a dance to attract a monkey thats only interested in being urinated on. I
mean, were practically different species here.
Keep in mind, animals don't have allegances to music genres or types of
clothing, but stuff like that is reason for some people to not be iterested
in someone else. Also, not many animals walk around looking for that,
"perfect gopher" after they got burned by one that was only interested in
sex. Thats all they're interested in, sex. They want the best, but they'll
take what they can get, and thats the bottom line. Lots of people spout
romantic pap about how "ooooooh, mongamy is where it's all at, love is
universal, because lots of bird and penguins mate for life." Naturally,
thats horse shit, becuase if they knew anything, they'd also know that
birds cheat to spread genes around, and mostly the male partner is kept
around for security and food.
Which brings me to a totally off track idea about cheating that I derived
from the habits of doves: Doves have a tendency to mate for life, barring
circumstance, but they cheat a lot. How and why, and how does it relate to
humans? Female doves will often leave their mate, to find a superior male
and mate with him. They will sometimes do this many times, so when they lay
a clutch of eggs, each egg could actually be a different father's. Males,
on the toher hand, will leave and go and screw any female they can find.
Now why? Becuase genetics has put in a very succesful redundency in the
relatrion between most sexes: Females look for the best, it's there jobs to
create superior offspring, but males will do anything, it's there job to
spread genes. If both sexes craved superiority, there would be a mating
shortage, and if it was the toher way around, evolution, selection, and
adaption to change would suffer. SO how does this petain to humanity (BTW
many, many other animals practice this systems, almost all in fact, but
often with out birds inherent use of a 'mating for life' principal) Men are
always portrayed as sex hungry dogs, who will do anythign that moves. This
is justified becuase most of us are, and that sucks. Women are often
searching for "the right catch" and won't settle for less. Stubborn,
perhaps, but logically it makes sense, and for all intensive purposes,
women are smarter. Furthermore, when a man cheats, or has lots of partners,
he's a stud, becuase he's fullfilling his genetic role. BUt of course, if a
women has lots of partners, she's a slut. Most of this if peer jealousy, as
it appears other women are much angrier at women being "slutty" than men.
These other women are jealous that said female is getting a better cross
section of good genes. a lot of times when men cheat, they will shack up
with most any girl. A lot of times, they aren't as pretty or interesting,
but it doesn't matter, becuase they give him the sex he wants. But often,
women will look for a "better" guy, stronger, smarter, more succesful.
Look, society replaced being able to get lots of food with being rich,
defensive skills with going to the gym, etc etc. In my opinion, most people
are constantly struggling between giving in to their inherent genetic
roles, and fitting into societal roles. That includes restriction that go
beyond just the genetic, thast is to say stuff like monogomy, whether it's
sexual or emotional. Of course I'm an advocate of polyamory, so I'm biased,
but none te less, this was mt rambling incoherent blog. enjoy.
____________________ “The only thing that can alter the good writer is death.”
“You know that if I were reincarnated, I’d want to come back a buzzard.
Nothing hates him. He is never bothered or in danger, and he can eat
anything.”
Faulkner
Alugarde
Member
Posts: 185 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 30/4/2004 at 03:25 PM
quote:correction: woman are
evil (well i am)
If you'd like to declare yourself evil, that's up to you. I'll consider you
evil from now on. I just wasn't comfortable making such a statement about
roughly half the human population.
[Edited on 4/30/2004 by Alugarde]
____________________ l33t is the bastard cousin of contractions.
Zero
Fanatic
Posts: 459 Registered: 15/2/2004 Status: Offline
posted on 30/4/2004 at 07:26 PM
that's why i said that sometimes our awareness gets in the way of the
natural order of things...
I also hate to agree that many many men are guilty of being sex driven
animals...i'd like to think i'm not...but sometimes i envy male dogs...they
get to just hump the leg (or whatever) of anyone (or thing) around...and
they don't care who's watching...but the human male is always stuck having
to suppress those natural urges (at times anyway) That seems unfair...does
it not??
____________________ "It is a fool's prerogative to utter truths that no one else will speak."
~
The Sandman, Dream Country
Geist
Member
Posts: 127 Registered: 5/11/2002 Status: Offline
posted on 30/4/2004 at 09:40 PM
I just don't understand how two mature intelligent adults that have been
together for many years can pretty much not know a damn thing about each
other... In the supposed information age it seems to me that we might be
able to pick up on a little more of what really matters to those around us
instead of it going in one ear and out the other.
____________________ Chasity - the most unnatural of all sexual perversions...
angel_of_death
Member
Posts: 119 Registered: 4/4/2004 Status: Offline
posted on 1/5/2004 at 06:34 AM
quote:"words are complicated,
flirting is simple. women are evil for doing it, men as dumb for falling
for it."
Can you explain why women are evil for communicating and men are dumb for
"falling for it" by communicating with them? OR is this just that standard
"women are evil because men lust after them" Christian arguement that has
justified raping someone if they leave the house? I really am curious.
the purpose of flirting is to lead someone on, give them a faulse hope that
u find then intresting (if u actually find them intresting, then the
relationship gets personal, we wont cover that here) it is essintally a
mean thing to give faulse hope to a person, hence women are not bad, but,
skilled at munlipation. boys, love it, lap it, flirt back, and then
thinking there was a real intrest get all confused when the girl walks of
and flirts with someone else. hence, women are ''skilled at munlipation''
and boys are dumb.
women are not evil because men lust after them, and rape is never
justified, women are only evil if they enjoy/use to thier advantage being
lusted after.
____________________ I know whats it like to want to die, how it hurts to smile, how you try
to
fit in but you can't, how you hurt yourself on the outside, to try to
kill
the pain in the inside.
Ummm... I disagree... All humans, by default are evil... not by any
religious reasoning...
Dictionary.com defines evil as
Causing ruin, injury, or pain; harmful: the evil effects of a poor diet.
Characterized by anger or spite; malicious:
HUMANS as a default setting are evil... fuck the gender... just evil
period...
____________________ The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
Anya
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 1/5/2004 at 07:01 AM
There's a reason why they say women are from Venus and men are from Mars.
Let me give you a brief explanation, ask questions if you want. We covered
this stuff in psychology not so long ago.
Most of our gender roles and generalizations are culturally influenced, but
there are some basic differences. I strongly believe that a lot of the
tensions are "miscommunications." Let me explain.
Women are generally good with communication. Even if the girl is not the
social butterfly, she can still somehow "connect." The majority of the
feminine side involves connecting to others. So in a lot of cases, most
women will sympathize with someone with a problem (i.e., "I know how you
feel. <insert story here>"). Also, the feminine principle involves
passiveness, so a lot of actions are mind over matter. Women tend to be
more emotional, as well, due to estrogen.
Men, on the other hand, see the world as a hierarchy to climb up. Most men
feel the need to aspire and rise (arguably a cultural thing). Also, due to
this mindset, guys want to be the ones to advise others, so their
communication is more direct (i.e., "Well <insert suggested action
here>"). As we know, men are usually more aggressive than females due
to testosterone.
Now, as I explained some general differences, here's where the
miscommunication starts. Most females are reserved, so in a way, that is
where it seems that they are "leading on", but a lot of them feel like they
"need to be polite." At the same time, though, they are more likely to
express how they feel than a guy. When they talk about their feelings,
they expect the guy to relate, not give an outright solution - when a guy
does that, they feel condescended for it seems the guy just doesn't want to
deal with her (maybe she's right, but it's actually a communication issue).
In turn, when a girl sympathizes with a guy, he will feel condescended for
he wants answers and doesn't want anyone to compare to him.
Granted, there are also those who are fairly androgenous, which means that
they are equally masculine and feminine in personality. I am one of those
androgenous people.
These are just some generalities, though...there's always exceptions to the
gender roles; hence the androgenous people or the "more masculline" females
or "more feminine" males. I'm not completely sure if this useless
information is what you want, but your topic name caught my interest as far
as generalities go.
On a note, in Health class (sex topic), they suggest that women are drawn
to verbal seduction and men are strong in wanting visual seduction...if
that makes any sense. Of course, the same class suggests that keeping track
of a woman's cycle can prevent pregnancies. *shrugs*
Squire-of-Gothos
Fanatic
Posts: 206 Registered: 1/1/2003 Status: Offline
posted on 1/5/2004 at 12:09 PM
I don't see why flirting is giving someone a "false hope". Most of the
time, when I'm flirting with someone, it's becuase I like them, and I want
to get to know them, break the ice, see them again and date them, or fuck
them.
And anya, I think you're majorly wrong on one point: men
are from Venus; to get their penice. Women, on the other hand, are from
Mars, to become movie stars. This is pretty common knowledge here people,
lets get it straight.
____________________ “The only thing that can alter the good writer is death.”
“You know that if I were reincarnated, I’d want to come back a buzzard.
Nothing hates him. He is never bothered or in danger, and he can eat
anything.”
FUCK GENDER ROLES... we are so far beyond any biological need (save for
reproduction) and any philosophical need for gender roles... LET'S FUCKING
MOVE ON... just swallow your pride and let peopel do whatever the fuck they
want...
The US as a whole accepts lesbians... women fucking women when their
traditional gender role was to fuck men... why can't we get beyond the
petty - "anything you can do I can do beter" and move into true
egalitarianism????
FUCK HUMANS... EVEN THOUGH THEY TASTE LIKE CHICKEN, THEY SUCK
____________________ The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
angel_of_death
Member
Posts: 119 Registered: 4/4/2004 Status: Offline
posted on 1/5/2004 at 02:25 PM
Squire-of-Gothos: u said most of the time, so is there still that little
bit of you that does it juts for fun/money/cause ur bored? if so, and every
chick has, then it proves my point of women giving faulse hope/evil.
feralucce: this has nothing to do with gender roles, guys are evil to, on a
larger scale, they will let u flirt with them, fuck u, and then never
talk/call/ tell all his friends ur a bad fuck.
____________________ I know whats it like to want to die, how it hurts to smile, how you try
to
fit in but you can't, how you hurt yourself on the outside, to try to
kill
the pain in the inside.
Zero
Fanatic
Posts: 459 Registered: 15/2/2004 Status: Offline
posted on 1/5/2004 at 02:39 PM
angel: i think ur dateing the wrong kind of men. (just a joke)
and on the subject of humans are basically evil....no....they're basically
ignorant
when i think of it..... there really isn't such a thing as good or evil.
those things are just a concepts.
[Edited on 1/5/2004 by Zero]
____________________ "It is a fool's prerogative to utter truths that no one else will
speak."
~
The Sandman, Dream Country
callei
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 1/5/2004 at 02:54 PM
about that women are passive bullshit. that is also a socially taught
thing. women arent passive, they are told to be passive in western civ. and
in some asian civs they are told to be more passive than thier passive men.
ok that said, if women are "naturally" passive then why is there a goddes
Kali, why is the word for power the name of a female god? why is the idilic
idea of man up until about oh say 1200AD in Europe one of pure thought and
passive to all around him? (think Buddha, plato, the majority of the
Catholic saints, and all the "wise" kings). This whole passive thing for
women started with some drunk poets during a seige and has spread from
thier wine besotted heads to the rest of us in the last thousand years.
And its only "true" for some cultures. actually it isnt "true" for any
culture, that is why the ones that want passive women make so many rules to
try to make them passive. if they were passive, the laws wouldnt be there.
Fuck this one pisses me off. Just open your eyes and look around at all the
single moms working full time, raising thier kids and having hobbies and
tell me again how "women are passive" and into flowers and poetry and
swooning.
____________________ Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and
vampires
/>
away.
Anya
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 1/5/2004 at 06:14 PM
Okay, I didn't make myself clear on this one obviously. Yes, there are a
lot of active women in that aspect, but I was referring to the difference
of testosterone and estrogen. Studies have showed people being more
aggressive with testosterone. In turn, there are a good amount of women
who have high testosterone levels, mainly older women but it can be younger
women too (why are there tomboys?).
When people age, men get more "feminine" and women get more "masculine."
And yes, a lot of things are socially influenced. Most western
civilizations still traditionally have the women as the caregivers and the
men as the hunters. Even with womens rights, that stigma is going to stick
around for a long time...whether we like it or not. It is why a lot of
people frown upon Hillary Clinton (not my reason, but anyway) along with
other females that have the "drive" to rise in class.
I'm sure psychology books will say something totally different in the
future on the testosterone and estrogen matter. Regardless, the majority
of men have more testosterone than women and therefore, are more prone to
aggression.
Then again, this all can be dismissed for the human mind is a VERY
complicating thing indeed...
My apologies for not being any clearer on what I was trying to bring up.