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Ironboots
Extreme Fanatic   Posts: 893 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 15/11/2004 at 09:44 AM |
Well, I like all this talk about the election fraud. I don't really see
what difference it will do directly (so we have Bush instead of Kerry, big
deal), but in the short term it is leading to massive consciousness-raising
about our crooked government. And maybe, hopefully, in the long term it
will lead to some electoral reform. Maybe even something better than
reform.
In my town, there are many liberals coming out of the woodwork who would
not have even held a sign at a demonstration, and now they're planning
civil disobedience on the inauguration day. People's minds are being
changed by this election, and its good to keep the ball rolling.
Feral: While I support the mission of the office of redundancy office, I
think it is a little mean to jump on someone for overusing words. In this
case, its just extra salt in the guy's wound.
____________________
Piggy's got the Conch!
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Lestat
Occasional Poster   Posts: 28 Registered: 23/11/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 15/11/2004 at 09:49 AM |
| Yahhh!!Let's make his life miserable!! grrr bloody chimp-man! ____________________
I belong to no one. no organization confines me,no community,no society, no
nation.
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Starlight
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 618 Registered: 27/9/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 15/11/2004 at 01:22 PM |
| Well, the Presidential Cabinet members are resigning one by one. I wonder
if the next step is debate over whether there will be attempts to revamp
the constitution in it's entirety or if there will be announcement by GWB
that "Me and my new Cabinet members have decided we'll just throw away that
old misworded, misguided document and write us up a new one that agrees
with our...ahem...I mean our country's new views on family values and
religious morality." ____________________
"When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I've never
tried before." ~Mae West
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MoonSong
Coward   Posts: 5 Registered: 13/4/2004 Status: Offline
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posted on 15/11/2004 at 06:02 PM |
I think part of the problem in regard to the elections is the bi-partisan
system. People are 'forced' to vote for "the lesser of the two evils"
because they think a vote otherwise will be a waste. If other parties such
as the libretarians, green party, centrists, etc. were more advertised and
allowed to debate along with the democrats and republicans on national
television, far more people would turn out to vote. Possibly causing our
lovely government to not be as corrupted, then again i could be
completely off base. I personally voted for Micheal Badnarik, the
libretarian canidate, which im sure most generally uninformed people never
even heard of during the race, further proving my point.
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W0rmW00d
Fanatic   Posts: 355 Registered: 5/8/2004 Status: Offline
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posted on 16/11/2004 at 05:41 AM |
mono: i was sitting in my dads house spare room watching the election
coverage realising slowly and steadily that it was all going to go
horribly. i think ive given a post to that effect.
ironboots: you reckon that a few people from your town holding placards and
maybe even throwing eggs at a monument will acheive something now? its too
late for the rats to jump ship once its at the bottom of the ocean. why did
THIS YEARS election change peoples opinions? it seems to me that the only
answer is they realised that SOMEONE ELSE WILL NOT DO IT FOR THEM. they
need to crawl out of the woodwork in time to make a difference. now its
just fucking vanity.
moonsong: do you not think that in an election such as the one just gone
the main point of every right thinking person should be to keep out the
greater of the two evils? much as it would be lovely to be able to get a
decent cndidate into the white house in the election just gone it was
nothing if not counterproductive. the republican vote was focussed whereas
the anti-republican vote was spread between the democrats and a variety of
third-party candidates. this not only means that there is one less vote
going to the only realistic opponent to bush, but also that (strange
american electoral system notwithstanding) any seat taken by a third-party
weakens the opposition, because unless they are just taking an anti-bush
stance on spec in every issue, which frankly even hardcore anti-bushists
must see is flawed, they will require the political power of the democrats
to be somewhat reduced due to having to bargain to get their support if and
when necessary in order to effectively oppose the bush administration.
just my 16 dollars and thirty five cents, and what looks like an arcade
token, and an old greek coin with a bit of chewing gum on it. ____________________
Eritis sicut Deus scientes bonum et malum.
And the third angel sounded, and a troll army did descend upon the world.
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Ironboots
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 893 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 16/11/2004 at 10:09 AM |
Well, I don't think the electoral college has met yet... Plus it'll stick
in people's minds, so they won't be suckered next time into a
president/war/clearcut we don't want.
But I was checking out the indymedia sites this morning and look what I
found on the LA imc:
Boots: Yes, that is a fuckin' tank in the middle of a nonviolent peace
march!
Taken from an article at www.rogueimc.org:
"I looked for articles in my local newspaper and on TV.....and there was
nothing. These stories are found only on our network of IMCs, and
bless them, for they are all unpaid volunteers serving the people,
and trying to get the truth out - at a time when, we now know, the truth
is not an issue for the Major Media. For instance, did you hear
that in Chicago there were demonstrations for a solid week after the
Nov. 2 Election..........NO.
What follows is an incomplete compilation of stories on citizen
unrest from around the country. Most of them have fallen off the
Main News Column, but can still be accessed. New York City, for
instance, has post-election stories that go back 30 pages.
Most were non-violent protests, one in particular - Boise Idaho -
had a rally where everyone dressed in their best clothing and
carried signs reading "Leave no billionare behind".
Check each cities' IMC to read the full story.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tuscon - "Police made it a point to harass and supress an energetic
but peacefull march on Nov. 3."
Austin - "Hundreds of people gathered today in Austin to protest
the war waged by the US and the concession of George W. Bush
to a second term."
Baltimore - "People marched through downtown Baltimore
to voice their opposition to the results of the election...."
Boston - Several people expressed their embarrassment
before the rest of the world at the results of the election.
Amy Beth Dimasi said that she had come out, “because Bush
was not elected the first time. The fact that he’s going to be
in office another four years . . . Right now, it’s humiliating
to be considered an American."
Mass. - ......people gathered in Amherst, Northampton,
Springfield and in the Berkshires to voice their outrage,
shock and dismay at what may well turn out to be another
hi-jacking of a national election.
Amherst - Beginning at UMass... students and allies marched
to the downtown Common Nov. 9 for an anti-war, anti-racist
march.....
Buffalo - Rocks and bricks were thrown to shatter plate
glass windows at the GOP Party Headquarters on Delaware
Avenue in downtown Buffalo. A window was also shattered
at the Armed Forces Recruiting Office on Sheridan in the
town of Tonawanda and the lock to a back door was broken.
Chicago - Chicago Erupts in Week of Protest during the
Elections ..... the crowd erupted into the second unpermitted
street march as thousands paraded throughout downtown,
blocking traffic and confusing cops. "We want an end to all
US wars and occupations..."
DC - "Today we Marched Because the System is Rotten"
DC - Snake march through DC ....started at the White House
and kinda wandered all over down town.
Houston - ...demanding that the War Profiteers Halliburton
and KBR and the Bush regime be thrown out of our community
and out of office.
Boise - Billionaires for Bush Rally......Carrying signs
which read "Leave no Billionaire behind", "We can’t thank
our President enough for contributing to our pockets—er,
I mean economic growth in America."
L A - MARINE APCs APPEAR AT ANTI-WAR PROTEST
IN WESTWOOD...The APCs circled the block twice, the
second time parking themselves in the street and directly
in front of the area where most of the protesters were gathered.
L A - About 1,500 people met at Hollywood and Highland
and marched to the recruiting station at Sunset and LaBrea
to protest the occupation of Iraq and the stolen election.
Madison - Rally and March for Peace
Toledo - Hundreds of angry Ohio residents marched through
the streets of Columbus—Ohio’sCapital—this evening and
stormed the Ohio State House....
Lansing - .....community members of Urbandale neighborhood,
were joined by MSU students... to protest the Bush regime,
occupation, and government.....
Milwaukee - ....a motley assemblage of the 'peace community':
liberals, church people, disgusted teenagers, environmentalists,
anarcho-syndicalists, and simple people of good will dismayed
at the way things turned out.
Maine - .......activists fought off wind, freezing rain, and
a pressing chill as they stood outside of Bath Iron Works
to witness and protest the launching of the 47th Aegis
Destroyer built by the US government.
Vermont - .....people took to the streets in disgust today in
response to the presidential election which put George W.
Bush into power for his second term.
New Jersey - Activists picket the Paterson "Army of One"
office in downtown Paterson.
New Jersey - NJ Solidarity members joined the weekly protest
organized by Inclusive Democracy at the “Army Career
Center”. The protest is small, but persistent.
NYC - 500, 000 people filled blocks of Seventh Avenue in NYC....
filing past Madison Square Garden to express dissent towards the
Republican Party.
NYC - Protests, Scattered Violence Mark Bush 'Victory'
NYC - ....NYPD harassment of Crticial Mass escalated last night,
with reports that between 33 and 47 people were arrested.
NYC - There was a protest this evening at Union Square Park.
Apparently, the protesters were surrounded by NYPD with M-16s.
NYC - A contingent of anti-war veterans marching in the official
city Veterans Day parade found a very favorable response.....
Raliegh - .... attacked North Carolina Republican
Party headquarters late Friday, leaving behind minor smoke
damage, broken windows and vulgar messages, authorities said.
Albany - ....a demonstration with perhaps 100 people in
Red Hook were attacked by police....
Columbus - Around 150-200 people marched from the
Federal Building back to the state Capitol Building and
sat and protested on the front steps of the Capitol Building.
Dallas - ....a Dallas-based activist group met a wall
of police and security as they attempted to
pass literature to the speakers of a conference on
globalization and to rally against the conference.
Dallas - Protestors Swamp SMU Bush Rally
Philadelphia - Following the rally, a spontaneous march
erupted into the streets of Philadelphia.
Pittsburgh - ...march through Squirrel Hill despite chilling
police repression and rain.
Portland - activists held back-to-back demonstrations in an
unprecedented week of action for peace and justice.
Portland - There were three arrests today, two at the start of
the rally at Pioneer Sq. and one under the Burnside Bridge......
Portland - .......police using pepper spray to disperse protesters
on November 3rd.
Richmond - Participants wore red to symbolize the fact that
democracy in this country is in extreme danger.
Rochester - Rocks and bricks were thrown to shatter plate
glass windows at the GOP Party Headquarters..........
San Diego - .....people turned up to voice their re-affirmation of
their absolute rejection of the war on Iraq.
San Fransisco - ....a rally and civil disobedience at the San Francisco
Federal Building....
Seattle - .....protesters marched from Western Washington University
today to protest the occupation and the elections in general.
Seattle - Over 1,000 people gathered in downtown Seattle to protest
Bush's war in Iraq.
Lawrence - ....activists marched ....in protest of the current invasion of
Fallujah. Local police accosted activists......... "
So which city are you guys in?
[Edited on 11/16/2004 by Ironboots] ____________________
Piggy's got the Conch!
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MoonSong
Coward Posts: 5 Registered: 13/4/2004 Status: Offline
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posted on 16/11/2004 at 05:34 PM |
I understand the anti-Bush concept, but I just just personally believe
Kerry would have done just as bad of a job...only with a slightly better
grasp of the english language....but either way anybody but Bush
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Wok
Occasional Poster  Posts: 25 Registered: 14/11/2004 Status: Offline
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posted on 17/11/2004 at 08:08 AM |
Nah, Kerry is just a Bush without the wars and evangelical bullshit. Well
at least I can strike another country off the list of
those-which-resemble-democracies.
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Starlight
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 618 Registered: 27/9/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 17/11/2004 at 09:29 AM |
| Wok: If you are referring to the USA, we are not a Democracy. We are a
Representative Republic. ____________________
"When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I've
never
tried before." ~Mae West
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RedQueen
Member   Posts: 98 Registered: 18/10/2004 Status: Offline
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posted on 17/11/2004 at 09:45 AM |
| Or perhaps, more accurately, a Not-Entirely-Representative Republic. ____________________
Today's liberals are tomorrow's conservatives. When my generation is the
conservatives, we'll be fine letting gays get married and creationism vs.
evolution in schools will be a laughable issue.
But by god we'll be sticking it to the damn cyborgs!
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Ironboots
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 893 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 18/11/2004 at 09:55 AM |
| We represent you as long as you agree with what we say. ____________________
Piggy's got the Conch!
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RedQueen
Member Posts: 98 Registered: 18/10/2004 Status: Offline
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posted on 18/11/2004 at 12:42 PM |
And then when you don't we use a national tragedy as an excuse to suspend
your civil liberties, rights, and freedom!
Yay! ____________________
Today's liberals are tomorrow's conservatives. When my generation is the
conservatives, we'll be fine letting gays get married and creationism
vs.
evolution in schools will be a laughable issue.
But by god we'll be sticking it to the damn cyborgs!
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Cobweb
Coward  Posts: 6 Registered: 24/12/2004 Status: Offline
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posted on 31/12/2004 at 08:52 PM |
There were so many people in the "anti-Bush" camp, that the Democrats could
have totally nailed it, had they not chosen such a shifty candidate.
One of the most disappointing and disgusting things in the election to me,
was the fact that some states (including mine), had the nerve to get rid of
Nader. In my opinion, that's not democracy at all.
Another thing that really got on my nerves, is something that happens in
every election; the false notion that we only have two choices--Democrat or
Republican. If people would just stop buying into this crap, they would
realize that they have other options. How many people in the Kerry camp
voted for him, just because they were against Bush, and vice versa? Had
they just opened their eyes to the alternative, they would have seen that
it didn't have to be this way. How many millions of votes could have gone
to the OTHER candidates, made them real contenders, and possibly brought
about a change in the way we view politics...a change in our lives? ____________________
"Mommy says scabs are nature's Band-Aid."
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feralucce
Extreme Fanatic  Posts: 1810 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 2/1/2005 at 08:41 AM |
no offense... but i have two words for you...WRITE IN... Secondly... we are
not and never have been a democracy... arepresentative republic is close...
but honestly... we are an oligarchy...
lastly... any vote fot nader in this last election was effectively a vote
for bush... the only person that had any chance of beating him was kerry...
I believe in idealism,... votingyour heart... but even I had to vote
kerry... just to try to keep ass-clown outta office...
____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.
Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist
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W0rmW00d
Fanatic Posts: 355 Registered: 5/8/2004 Status: Offline
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posted on 5/1/2005 at 05:18 PM |
Hooray. Sense talking.
Now, to take the thread in a slightly different direction:
Well, in a few months the old ally, my very own small collective of
countries, Britain, will be re-electing Blair simply because at the moment
there is no truly viable alternative.
The question is, with all my posturing and righteous indignation thus far,
can I with clean conscience abstain? The difference between the
Conservatives (Republicans) and Tories (Democrats, I guess. Names in
brackets are rough equivalents, just because I know English people who
don't know our parties, so no reason why any other nation should) over the
last seven odd years has been the spelling, and the third party , the
closest to an acceptable political group with a chance of election, stand
very little chance.
I don't want my name attached with any of these parties should they get
into power, but does an abstention, in your opinion, remove my right to
complain about what we get because I 'wasted' my oppertunity to have
input?
[Edited on 6/1/2005 by W0rmW00d] ____________________
Eritis sicut Deus scientes bonum et malum.
And the third angel sounded, and a troll army did descend upon the world.
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Monolycus
Fanatic  Posts: 580 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
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posted on 5/1/2005 at 07:19 PM |
Offense GREATLY taken.
Want to make my blood boil in a hurry? Then be an otherwise intelligent
human being who carps about how you "throw your vote away" to vote your
conscience. Since we are dealing in simplistic arguments, I'll simple this
down to two points:
1. "Um, I wanted the other evil guy to win." Sure, they aren't working
together or anything. They weren't alumni with the same personal and
business contacts and exactly the same interests who would pursue THE VERY
SAME POLICIES WITH THE VERY SAME PALMS BEING GREASED ALONG THE WAY. The
ambitious don't run for offices... the ambitious use frontmen. And the
ambitious had this election won even without controlling the physical
voting apparati because they were being fronted by the Republican and
Democratic candidates. Want to elect someone who can make a change for the
better? Then you're going to have to look beyond the interchangeable
criminals you think are the only people qualified to run. Stop trying to
decide whether the claw or ball-peen hammer is the better thing to use to
fix your watch when you've got an unopened tool box lying right in front of
you.
2. "Voting for anybody except who I have been told is electable is like
handing your vote over to the candidate I don't want to win." Ladies,
gentlemen and assembled dumbasses, witness the Self-Fulfilling Prophecy in
action. Want to throw some salt in the wound of collective stupidity?
Carp on to me about how the American electoral process "isn't even a
democracy". No shit, pal, and becoming less so with every new sucker who
enters the age of majority and starts spewing that crap in an
"I-know-better-than-everyone" tone. When everyone agrees that the world is
flat, it may as fucking well be and if everyone thinks there are only two
people born in this once-great, twice-baked potato who are qualified to
make executive decisions every four years, then there might as fucking well
be. Want to change that reality? Then open your fucking brains instead of
your fucking mouths and stop believing the ridiculous dogma about how
people are elected.
Imbeciles.
~M.
____________________
"I believe that woman is planning to shoot me again."
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Anonymous
Posts: 116 Registered: 14/4/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 5/1/2005 at 07:38 PM |
Well, people who have a felony on their record cannot vote here, but they
can complain. Do you have a felony? 
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Starlight
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 618 Registered: 27/9/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 5/1/2005 at 07:40 PM |
| Crud puppies and penises...that was me. ____________________
"When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I've
never
tried before." ~Mae West
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Starlight
Extreme Fanatic Posts: 618 Registered: 27/9/2002 Status: Offline
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posted on 5/1/2005 at 07:47 PM |
| Also, my reply was in response to Wormwood. (I didn't refresh before I
posted so I thought my post was just after.) ____________________
"When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I've
never
tried before." ~Mae West
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W0rmW00d
Fanatic Posts: 355 Registered: 5/8/2004 Status: Offline
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posted on 5/1/2005 at 07:58 PM |
Heh, no felony, but then again, I couldn't very well abstain if I did not
have the choice to vote.
I truly beleive that there should be a box for abstention on the electoral
ballot, just so that those who govern can no longer put down
dissatisfaction with the political candidates as 'voter apathy'. It would
be good to see the results come through '5% Other, 12% Lib Dem, 13%
Conservatives, 15% Labour 55% Find the whole lot of the a bunch of shitbags
and would only vote for them if forced to on pain of pain and then only
maybe.'
Mono: Hey, not the fault of the independant observer that the two main men
are crooks and the crooks run the show. Not the fault of the
vote-with-the-heart-man that the rest of the voters are blind. You may not
like how it is, but how it is is how it is. Hence the name. The only thing
that is really wrong with the point of view expressed here is that it is
expressed here. HERE. IT SHOULD BE FUCKING SHOUTED FROM THE ROOFTOPS. But
try that. Seriously, go outside right at a busy time and try it. ____________________
Eritis sicut Deus scientes bonum et malum.
And the third angel sounded, and a troll army did descend upon the world.
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