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Illustrations: So, I'm having a conversation with my nine year old daughter... |
Posted by
Meranda_Jade on Monday, May 16, 2005 - 06:15 AM PST
We were watching one of my favorite movies from my childhood... Cloak And Dagger. I was taking note of the fact that the father went to work and left his 10 or 11 year old son alone. I mentioned to her, "Did you see what just happened?" She said, "He..um.. left him alone?" I said, "Yes. That's generally how thigs were at that time. Parents left their kids alone a lot."
This got into a huge discussion about how things were when I was growing up, how parents were too busy to take care of their children, and the children had a lot more freedom than they have these days. These kids in this movie were allowed to run all over, doing whatever they wanted. They had bus passes and went all over the city on their own, without parental supervision. I know it was a movie, but it struck me that things really were like that at the time.
Then, I asked my daughter a question. I asked her, "Which would you rather have... ultimate freedom, with absolute security, or absolute security without any freedom? Think carefully. Answer what you really think, not what you think I want to hear." She thought about it, thought about her capabilities at the age of nine, and at first said that she would like security, but with freedom as well.
I told her that wasn't how it worked. That freedom and security rarely go together hand in hand. It was one or the other. She thought about it for a while, then said she would rather have freedom, even if it meant that she and she alone would be the one to worry about herself. I was very proud of her. This is one of the children who will grow up in this world. One of the children who are forced to wear helmets to ride a bicycle, or else be fined.
It gave me hope, that maybe, when this child grows up and can make her own way in the world... this child might have enough in her to help make changes in the world she lives in. Maybe she isn't the only one, either. Maybe this next generation will be the ones with the courage to stand up and take their freedom... even if it means losing a bit of security.
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So, I'm having a conversation with my nine year old daughter... | Login/Create an account | 11 Comments |
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Re: So, I'm having a conversation with my nine year old daughter...
by cofd (-)
on May 16, 2005 - 07:57 AM
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It is rather scary to see the way government is going these days (especially in the US). They are throwing freedom away with both hands in the name of safty or anti-terrorism. It amazes me more that what they do is often in direct conflict with what security experts say (for example see Bruce Schneier's thoughts on the whole "real id" buisness. It is enough to make one really sick. Sadly, life goes on. Hopefully things will change. There is no such thing as total security, or even real security. The old vet joke about horses that you can put one in a padded stall and it will still get itself hurt applies to people as well.
The only true security would come from reliance on a higher power. As much as we individually try to control what goes on around us, we are unable to prepare for every uncertainty. Walking today I could still get hit by a car, have a tree fall on me or get shot. There is always something that can happen that I cannot forsee or protect myself from.
Not that I am against doing the small things to keep my family and myself safer. I am just against going so far as it makes us less free.
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Re: So, I'm having a conversation with my nine year old daughter...
by Schizo (Aranea@Spidersdance.com)
on May 16, 2005 - 02:01 PM
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You should be proud of your daughter. It takes courage to choose the road of freedom rather than security. Especially in today's post-9/11 climate, where people "suspected of connections with terrorist groups" are banned from flying, and the government can snoop into anyone's private business in the name of national security. No one seems to want to take the trouble to take care of themselves anymore - and the few who would rather die at the hands of the most brutal of terrorists than give up one inch more of their freedom are forced to give up their rights at the command of the panicked majority.
I am hoping the same as you - that the new generation will rebel against the scared-rabbit policies of their parents, and have the courage to live boldly and with self-reliance. After all, the most paranoid of precautionary tactics can never guarantee safety, but only restrict the ability to enjoy the life they yell so loudly to have protected. The wise and intelligent will always be able to strike a balance between self-preservation and full and free enjoyment of life. And as for the fools - well, they are constantly finding new ways to destroy themselves, despite all the government's babysitting.
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Re: So, I'm having a conversation with my nine year old daughter...
by Meranda_Jade (Meranda@mymind.com)
on May 18, 2005 - 04:14 AM
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A correction... the question was, "Ultimate freedom with absolutely no security." It changes the article a bit. I think you guys got the idea, though. What gets me is that there are all of these masures to keep people "safe" these days... and it's all bullshit. Kids are so protected these days that they're nowhere near as self-reliant as they should be. I'm not saying that kids should be neglected, but they ought to be able to do more than they do these days. I just read an article yesterday about how "they" are now saying that trampolines are dangerous and that nobody should have them. Of course trampolines are dangerous! So is crossing the street! But take away the trampolines and you take away yet another childhood thrill. I guess "they" would rather children stay in their nice, safe, little houses and play their nice, safe little video games and watch their nice, safe little television programs thatn go outside and possibly do something "dangerous". Pfeh. Life is meant to be lived. If you take ALL of the danger out of it, it becomes boring and listless.
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Re: So, I'm having a conversation with my nine year old daughter...
by Schizo (Aranea@Spidersdance.com)
on May 19, 2005 - 02:44 AM
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I read on AOL this morning how the judge whose mother and husband were killed by a guy with a grudge against her is saying that there should be a law passed against speaking against members of the judicial system. Her point was that hearing critical words of a judge may push an angry person over the edge and incite him to kill.
I am appalled. I hate this - this horrific trend that makes anything that could possibly by any stretch of the imagination encourage someone to commit a crime, as much of a crime as the killing/beating/whatever. It's the same thing as the anti-goth movement that always rears its head whenever a troubled teenager opens fire on his classmates.
I thought freedom of speech was one of the basic rights of an American citizen - one that the judicial system is supposed to protect. But like all freedoms, it seems that there are far to many people eager to trash it in favor of some false sense of security.
I am nauseated.
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Re: So, I'm having a conversation with my nine year old daughter... by Meranda_Jade (Meranda@mymind.com) on May 19, 2005 - 07:39 AM (User info | Send a Message) | It's all about the government thinking that we all need a babysitter. Every day there's some new law to keep people from hurting themselves. Why not just wrap us all in cotton gauze and never let us out to do anything. Don't say anything, don't do anything unless it's on the prescribed list of things you are allowed to do or say. I believe that with all of this "protection for our own good", we're getting more and more incompetent to take care of ourselves. Back to the children being left alone in the 80's... those kids were damned self-reliant. Nowadays, it's hard to find adults with any kind of self-reliance or self-governance. That's why people continue to do stupid shit; they think if there's not a law in place prohibiting it, it's okay to do any old stupid thing. Thinking for yourself has definitely gone out of style.
Yeah, freedom of speech is a basic right. but in case you haven't noticed, we've lost that one... a while ago. they're looking for all kinds of ways to snatch THAT particular freedom. Oh, but we'll all have the security of knowing exactly what we can and cannot say... about everything. What a much safer world we'll live in. (sarcasm)
When everyone is told about what they can and cannot do... about everything, they stop thinking about it. I think that's the goal, here. Make sure nobody can think or do for themselves. We'll all be easier to control that way.
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Re: So, I'm having a conversation with my nine year old daughter...
by bettie_x (strangersangel@hotmail.com)
on May 21, 2005 - 12:16 AM
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Mad props to you for posing such a question to your daughter, and props for her for deciding which option would be better for her. She chose a hard and brave route, no doubt the result of her upbringing. With so many kids today unable (or assumed unable) to make adult decisions about their lives, their bodies, their minds, she's risen above the mass. Nurture this, as I'm sure you do, please.
I'll choose freedom over anything. I risk death and dismemberment by stepping out my door each day (and if you know the horrid highway I live on, you'd know I'm being literal) but my saftey is my responsibility, and I'm free to leave the house or stay within. I hate to think that someday someone will make that decision for me, or think me unfit to make that decision for myself. Death before dishonor, freedom before security, fight or flight. You've got a smart girl on your hands....she's going to be a handful :)
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Re: So, I'm having a conversation with my nine year old daughter...
by v3rsus (hatemail@v3rsus.org)
on Jun 04, 2008 - 11:33 PM
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we don't know what world you are living in but these days two working parents is the norm and we don't see how kids are more supervised and less left alone. as far as security and freedom goes, most people got neither these days. and to get to the point, if you're shit rich you got freedom and security. so how again is your child going to change the world cause she choses freedom over security? you are mixing up personal security and the security of a nation. it's all twisted. basically your child is going to be okay with having no security cause there is an illusion of freedom.
v3rsus
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Re: So, I'm having a conversation with my nine year old daughter... by Anonymous-Coward on Jul 29, 2008 - 12:05 AM | I think the basis of her child's decision relies in a sense of personal responsibility, which is grossly lacking in a majority of children, AND most certainly adults, and not so much an issue which we have had the last 20-30 years with "latch key kids". Not too long back it was common for kids to be unsupervised and have that be seen as safe. My husband used to be able to go to the corner store with a note and get his mom a 6 pack and a pack of smokes, and now the clerk'd go to jail for underage sale. I used to ride in the back window of my dad's IROC....now they have to be in booster seats until practically highschool if they're a "late bloomer". Social standards have changed much since then, how "east coast babysitter" is now seen as child abandonment or neglect.
It comes to two issues which are really very highly debated nowadays. People who want to watch their own backs and others who'd like to see their bubblewrap investment double. Over the last 8 years it's been a hot button, how many little freedoms, which equal out to one big hunk of freedom, will you give up so you remain in a comfortable amber (ie: ALERT! KIND OF PANIC, SORT OF!)) feeling of "security" (see: frog boiling). This led to illegal phone tapping, all for saftey. Illegal detention of "suspicious" persons without legal counsel, for saftey. A war *cough*. The PC movement. Frivilous lawsuits, overwhelmed HR hotlines, lazy, senseless, puling gluttons all waiting for a sliding door to malfunction, a slippery floor (with or without a hazard sign in three posted languages) , all so they can gain a windfall. People who sigh and shake their heads on the news "wow, there aught to be a law, that is potentially inconvenient". Families suing police departments because their loved one aimed a weapon at an officer and the police shot them. Well, that's what they goddamned get.
You should not protect people from themselves. We have the right to bear arms. That means that people will get shot, which is between the gun owner and the person antagonizing the gun owner. I choose not to antagonize potential gun owners. I will teach my daughter not to antagonize potential gun owners. There are people who would like to take that right away. I don't own a gun. I don't want to. But that doesn't mean that someone else can't. There are laws in place to punnish someone for irresponsibly discharging their firearm. It is up to each individual how to protect themselves from this life hazard, which means keeping their big goddamned mouths shut when it's prudent, or other means.
I am not an advocate of total anarchy (not in the classic sense, but in the sense that most people hold it to today). There are systems in place to try to keep an even keel between abuse and justice, neglegence and common sense. Sometimes they are in harmony, sometimes they are not. It is the way of the world. However, to willingly give over small "freedoms" for an illusion of "saftey" is disturbing. I would not bargain an OUNCE of my freedom, or my daughter's freedom for an illusion of "national saftey". That is absurd. Actually, it's frightening that anyone would do so. I won't give it up so someone else can pass the buck, let the government put a lock and camera on MYdoor so that when a wolf comes knocking at the house next door, and if it looks like a wolf, smells like a wolf, talks like a wolf, and they let it in anyway, they can look around and say "how was I supposed to know? Nobody TOLD me it was a wolf."
I grew up knowing that if I drive like an asshole, I'll crash my car and be screwed, that if I dont' look both ways before crossing the street I'll get run over, that if I drink too much I'll do something retarded, that if I talked to strangers I could be hurt, that if I don't lock my door I could get burglarized, that if I don't show up for my job I'll be fired, that if I do something idiotic I'll have to fess up to it, that if I want something I'll have to earn it. I am responsible for me in my everyday life, as it should be.
I, f
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Re: So, I'm having a conversation with my nine year old daughter... by Meranda_Jade (Meranda@mymind.com) on Aug 04, 2008 - 12:07 AM (User info | Send a Message) | Bettie, is that you? Thanks. That's the point I tried to make with this.
And she is getting smarter and more independent and able to take care of herself every day.
I'm raising four damned good people, here.
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Re: So, I'm having a conversation with my nine year old daughter... by bettie_x (strangersangel@hotmail.com) on Aug 04, 2008 - 10:50 AM (User info | Send a Message) http://bettie_x.tripod.com/ | What other long winded girl that hates "Big Brother" and everything it entails it could it be? It did log me out when I hit post tho. You are raising 4 good people. PEOPLE is the key word here, and that you see your children AS people. That is what's going to make the most difference in their lives.
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