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Articles: Condemned to Eternal Hellfire
Posted by MystryssRavynDarque on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 06:39 PM PST

Religion
I am 19 years old and I am in fear for my life. No, no one has set out to harm me nor do I have a terminal illness. I fear for my afterlife. I fear what is to come.
I spent at least sixteen years of my life attending a Pentecostal church and growing up in a Christian family. Every summer since kindergarten I would attend church camp for a week and I loved every moment of it. Well, except for when I cried my first day there and the final two years of attending. The last two years I found the atheists, agnostics, and just your typical “goth” kids to hang out with. No, I wasn’t particularly fond of most of them, but they were there and so was I. We hung out away from the crowd and didn’t participate as much as everyone else did, but we sat through the sermons and joined in the games because we had to. This final year I went and discovered that many girls were discovering their sexuality at the same time as me. Many claimed to be bisexual, though as many discover when seeking out a mate amongst them, they were not really. I did sleep with a girl in my bed every night though. Rumors were started but luckily none ever got to my parents. None of the rumors were true of course. I would have been mortified at the time as I was still “closeted”. During the few years before I had fallen under the “holy ghost’s power” and “spoke in tongues”. These two things involve, for those of you who do not know, a passing out like state where you are still conscious of some sort of thought (at least I was) and strange ramblings flowing forth from your mouth while you think correctly. I even witnessed a boy from the church I went to possessed with demons. That is really an interesting thing to see. I still wonder to this day how that could be explained scientifically.

This is where I should mention that I am no longer a Christian. I don’t go to church, I don’t pray, I am basically bisexual, and I have had premarital sex. I would be considered an extreme sinner by some. None of these things feel wrong to me though. I am very happy in the life I am in and I feel so alive and free.

Yet, something still plagues me. I am haunted by the thoughts of “what happens after we die” and “will I ever see my friends and family again?” I see churches and signs for churches and I wonder “will I go to hell and never see my family again?” which really scares me. I love my family and friends and I look forward to seeing them and many other people in an after life.

I am trying to discover who I am, what I believe, why I am here, and where my life is leading me. I keep getting thrown off by the thought of eternal hell fire and damnation. I am a good person and I don’t believe I have anything I should spend forever unhappy about, but I still wonder. I believe in a karmic like system but I don’t quite believe in a past life. I believe that some people might have had them or they truly believe they had them, so I will not deny them that, but I still haven’t had any hard evidence to show me. I think the only thing that could convince me is to have an experience that makes me see mine. I don’t like the idea of being tossed from body to body without knowing it and without knowing who I am. If an after life is real, then this me, the me who I am now, will never exist again and I will not know I am a whole new person. What I really believe the thing to do is to be a good person, be kind to others, and do good deeds out of the kindness of your entire being not because you fear what may come. I also believe I should be happy and that I should have a damn good time while I am here.

There isn’t a full on point to this post, but if you see one then I am glad I could share something of meaning for you. I also figured that since many of you are good people with open minds, hearts, and ears/eyes I’d share what’s causing me grief today in hopes of receiving some good feed back and possibly some good advice.

Thank you for reading.



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Re: Condemned to Eternal Hellfire
by Anonymous-Coward on Mar 01, 2005 - 02:44 AM
MRD, what you say really rings a chord with me.

I, too, am a recovering Christian. It's funny, because no matter how far I get from those days, no matter how many rules I break, and no matter how automatic that rule-breaking gets, the old beliefs still haunt me. It's that sudden panic that hits at random times - am I screwing myself over for all eternity?

It's a hard thing to truly break free from something that you have been trained from birth to. I sometimes wonder if I will ever truly be free from the occasional relapse of thought. It's scary, too. We've both been trained to believe that the path we walk is one of great peril - disconnected from the security of the sheepfold. Even my words betray me - rulebreaking - as if Something out there has a right to lay down the law to me.

The important thing is to be honest with yourself. Deep in your heart, trained mental patterns aside, do you believe you are doing the best you can with what you are given? Are you being truthful with yourself about what you know and what you don't know? You seem to be clear on that point.

If there is a Being out there that objects to doing your best and not pretending you know something you don't, then spending an eternity with It would be a hell in itself. I don't know much about what's out there beyond the obvious physical, but I do know when something's messed-up, and is something I don't want anything to do with, and a Being like that goes squarely on that list.

Even should the Christian God exist, even if there is a Heaven and a Hell, if God is truly good, then he will not condemn me for being honest and courageous enough to walk the path I do, even if I am mistaken in that path. If He is truly good, He will know that those who lie to themselves for the sake of feeling safe and secure are much farther from the path than the likes of you and I.

And if the Christian God does not exist, well then, what is there to worry about?

So I resolve to keep on being true to myself, and discovering a path that I feel is the right one for me. I will believe what I find to be true, and practice what I find to bring health and happiness to myself and those around me. I will fight my brain-washed condition whenever it rears its ugly head, and I will refuse to live in fear of what I was told as a child by people I later found to be not nearly as wise as they wanted me to think.



Re: Condemned to Eternal Hellfire
by Schizo (Aranea@Spidersdance.com) on Mar 01, 2005 - 02:45 AM
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I logged in, I swear!


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Re: Condemned to Eternal Hellfire
by Arthegarn on Apr 27, 2005 - 08:01 AM
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A RECOVERING christian? When did you stop being a simple Christian and started being a RECOVERING one? Is there something I missed? Am I, after all, alone in this sea of darkness?

Now if you are a RECOVERING Christian and that is as bad as it sounds we need to have some looooooooong talks, you and me do...


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Re: Condemned to Eternal Hellfire
by Schizo (Aranea@Spidersdance.com) on Apr 29, 2005 - 02:48 AM
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I am sorry, Arthegarn, but yes, a recovering Christian. To you, Christianity is a choice you made, and you walk in it freely of your own will. But to me, it was something I was forced and held into by my family and peers. I had no options for a long time, and the pressure was intense. It nearly broke me, but I found a way to escape, and the strength to heal. Now, I don't live by compulsion, and I find that I am actually a stronger, healthier person.

The God I was raised with I do not serve. But I think that the God I was raised with was false.

Do you remember the story in the New Testament (I'm not sure exactly where it is, but it may be Acts) about the temple with the altar to the Unknown God? That's me. The fact is, I don't know what or who or if God is. If there is Someone loving me and giving me strength, then I give that Someone honor and gratitude. But I honestly don't know anymore.

I always felt, even in my most desperately Christian days, that somehow the practice of my religion was distracting me from my real goal. I was spending so much time trying to be a good Christian, that I couldn't seem to properly concentrate being a person interacting with their guide and maker. This sent constant warning signals in my heart, but I had been told so often that Christianity was the only path to God, that I was afraid to act on this feeling.

Now I no longer concern myself with religion, Christian or otherwise. I feel peace in my heart that the God I tried to serve, if it truly exists, is not looking for people who have guessed the proper religion, give it the proper names, or observe certain or specific rituals, but rather for people who search honestly, with an open heart. Perhaps this is true faith - faith in Deity Itself to hold onto a soul in love and protection, rather than clinging to doctrine or traditions to help.

I am not afraid of the uncertainties, and I am also not a mere leaf blown in the winds of my own whims and momentary fancies. There is a spark in my heart that I am content to leave unnamed that leads me on a path that makes me stronger and wiser and happier every day. Is this spark a What or a Who? Is it a part of myself, or something from outside of me? I don't know. I don't think I need to know, or guess. It seems to work just the same, named or unnamed. As long as I am listening to it, and not to the many voices outside, trying to tell me what it SHOULD be saying, I think I am doing just fine. That is how I am recovering - I am stilling the echoes of old voices that have distracted me for so long.

Have I managed to lay your fears to rest, dear friend? As Tolkein has written so eloquently, "not all who wander are lost."

But I would be very happy to have some looooooooong talks with you, nonetheless. It has been a long time, and you have become a stranger, Arthegarn.


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Re: Condemned to Eternal Hellfire
by Comedian (eccentrically_long@yahoo.com)
on Mar 01, 2005 - 12:07 PM
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If as many people respond to this post as have their own opinions about this, we'll be here until Jesus, or Muhammad, or Indra comes down to kick all our asses.

I'm just going to say, because all of this has been argued over a thousand times before, with much to the little in progression of thought:

If you live your life afraid of how you can live it, are you really living at all?

Our return ticket is already stamped as soon as we pop out of the womb. Born to die. We're all inevtiably going to die. What happens after we die? I don't really care.

I don't think anyone should care. There's too many people, too many religions, and too many ways to believe that I don't think that any god would hold it against you for getting it wrong.

There is no theological "Pepsi Challenge" if you don't drink soda. So don't worry about it.


Re: Condemned to Eternal Hellfire
by IamSquid (undisclosed)
on Mar 02, 2005 - 09:54 PM
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Don't worry, it happens to all of us who were raised in a cult. The aftermath of brainwashing takes an entire lifetime to overcome.

My cult was the Roman Catholic church and at times I wonder what Jesus thinks about my current lifestyle. I am compelled to answer that if Jesus had a problem with mee for openly being who I am than Jesus was not somebody I should be listening to anyway. Furthermore the things that I was taught about religion did not stand-up to what I learned when I began to study the Bible in it's original language.

All counter-propaganda aside, to find divinity it's unneccesary to look further than within yorself.



Re: Condemned to Eternal Hellfire
by MystryssRavynDarque (amanda-at-vibechild-dot-com) on Mar 03, 2005 - 01:55 AM
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You've studied the bible in its original language? I'd love to discuss that with you sometime.



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Re: Condemned to Eternal Hellfire
by IamSquid (undisclosed) on Mar 03, 2005 - 08:37 PM
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I study Biblical Hebrew so I can't answer too many questions regarding the New Testament which was written in Greek.


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Re: Condemned to Eternal Hellfire
by Arthegarn on Apr 27, 2005 - 08:17 AM
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"My cult was the Roman Catholic church and at times I wonder what Jesus thinks about my current lifestyle. I am compelled to answer that if Jesus had a problem with mee for openly being who I am than Jesus was not somebody I should be listening to anyway"

A little proud, are we not?


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Re: Condemned to Eternal Hellfire
by Merry_Widow on Mar 03, 2005 - 10:30 PM
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I blame Cotton Mathers and his ilk for all that hanging over the hellfires by a thread nonsense. If that were all true, I should have burst into flames a long time ago.
You just keep doing what your doing and shaking your groove thing to whatever music strikes your fancy. That's all you or anyone else can do.



Re: Condemned to Eternal Hellfire
by Arthegarn on Apr 27, 2005 - 08:19 AM
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Not true. You can choose which music to listen to. Freedom is NOT doing whatever we want whenever we want. That's just being a slave to our apetites


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Re: Condemned to Eternal Hellfire
by Domkitten (saradevil@saradevil.com)
on Mar 12, 2005 - 03:24 AM
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I wouldn’t worry about it to much. Live life, have fun, be happy. Hell or high water will be waiting when we die, maybe nothing, maybe something. What you can guarantee is that you will not know how many breathes you have left to take, or how many more suns you'll see, so get a martini, light a cigarette, grab a condom and enjoy it baby.



Re: Condemned to Eternal Hellfire
by Arthegarn on Apr 27, 2005 - 08:19 AM
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I really must write that essay on responsibility...


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My darlin angel gal Mandi
by Anonymous-Coward on Mar 15, 2005 - 09:40 AM


The ppl are always formally paying respect to Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Mohammedanism, bit it always happens that anybody who has any intelligence is no longer interested in all that crap. He/she may go to the synagogue or church even the mosque for other reasons, but those reasons are not religious; in the end they're social. It pays to be seen in the synagogue; u get respect, and there is no harm. It is just like joining some sort of club. These religions are old clubs which have a religious jargon around them, but look a little deeper and you will find they are all booo ur a devil or you'll burn in hell crap with no substance inside.
I can say I'm in favor religion, but that religion will not be a repetition of any religion that you are acquainted with.
There are many errors and they are all fundamental, but first I´ll say the most fundamental. The most fundamental mistake of all the religions is that none of them had the balls to accept that there are things which we don't know. They all pretended to know everything, they all pretended to know all, that they were all omniscient.

Why did this happen? -- because if you accept that you are ignorant about something then doubt arises in the minds of your followers. If you are ignorant about something, who knows? -- you may be ignorant about other things also. What is the guarantee? To make it foolproof, they have all pretended, without exception, that they are omniscient.
Science does not pretend to be omniscient; it accepts its human limits. It knows how much it knows, and it knows that there is much more to know. And the greatest scientists know of something even deeper. The known, they know the boundaries of; the knowable they will know sooner or later -- they are on the way.

But only the greatest scientists like Albert Einstein will be aware of the third category, the unknowable, which will never be known. Nothing can be done about it because the ultimate mystery cannot be reduced to knowledge.
We are part of existence -- how can we know existence's ultimate mystery?

Its sort of late the time we've come to know this; there was nobody present as an eyewitness. And there is no way for us to separate ourselves completely from existence and become just an observer. We live, we breathe, we exist with existence -- we cannot separate ourselves from it. The moment we are separate, we're dead. And without being separate, just a watcher, with no involvement, with no attachment, you'll never know the mistery; its impossible. There's always gonna be somehting you don't know. Yah, it can be felt, but it cannot be known. Perhaps it can be experienced in different ways -- unlike knowledge. like

You fall in love -- can you say you know love? It seemsa different phenomenon. You feel it. If you try to know it, perhaps it will evaporate in your hands. You cannot reduce it to knowing. You cannot make it an object of knowledge because it is not a mind phenomenon. It is something to do with your heart.the heartbeat knows it, but that is a totally different kind of knowledge: the intellect is incapable of approaching the heartbeat.

But there is something more than heart in you -- your being, your life source. lust as you know through the mind, which is the most superficial part of your individuality, you know something from your heart -- which is deeper than the mind. The mind cannot go into it, it is too deep for it. But behind the heart, still deeper, is your being, and that I would say is your very life source. That life source also has a way of knowing.
Now, how to translate silence into sound? The moment you try translate silence into sound you have destroyed it. Even music cannot translate it. music comes the closest, but still it is sound.

Poetry does not come quite as close as music, because words, howsoever beautiful, are still words. They don't have life in them, they are dead. How can you translate life into something

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Re: My darlin angel gal Mandi
by Anonymous-Coward on Mar 15, 2005 - 02:55 PM
Your theories make sense as far as they go - but you have made some sweeping statements that really aren't true.

Plenty of incredibly intelligent people trust truly in religions. My childhood church was full of them. Champion debaters, professors of dead languages, engineers, inventors, mathematicians, artists, musicians, authors, lawyers, doctors, architects; for such a small church, we had a really amazing average intelligence. In fact, I was rather shocked to find that the rest of the world was, in general, quite distressingly less intelligent than I was used to. So it seems that intelligence and religion can walk hand-in-hand.

Intelligent people do not just remain in religions for the social benefits. There are a myriad of reasons why an intelligent person would sincerely believe in something like Christianity. I can cite one reason - the reason I stayed as long as I did. Love. I loved God. You can crack all the sexual jokes about it that you want - the fact remains, I was in love with a deity. He was supposed to be the embodiment, no, the source of all that was good, and true, and beautiful, and I loved Him and wanted to be with Him forever. I tried with all my strength to do the things I had been told would make Him happy - the things He liked. I only stopped because I found that many of the people who had been teaching me about Him were far from trustworthy. I found that, as far as I knew, He didn't even care about the things I had been told He cared about, and maybe, He didn't even exist at all. I faced up to the fact that, with the information at my disposal, I could not know for sure one way or the other. So I embarked on a quest - a quest to find what I felt was right and true, with an occasional word to my lost Love, hoping that if I was making a huge mistake, that He would see my intentions and judge me by them. After all, if the Deity were to cast me aside for doing the best I knew, then He was no love of mine. So that is where I am. I am facing the unanswerable questions, and dealing with the fact that I don't have a clear answer.

There are many people I know - my own family, even, who also face the same unanswerable questions. They are intelligent enough to realize that they have no solid proof to back up their beliefs, but they choose to take their risks, just as I choose mine. They have chosen to walk by faith, just as I have chosen to walk the path of exploration. It is their choice, though at times it pains me to see them tie themselves (to my mind) needlessly in knots over some (to my mind) pointless regulation, I still respect the strength of their devotion, and hope that their desires are realized in some way, even if it isn't in the form they visualize.

I am not denying the fact that many followers of religions are exactly as you describe them. Even in this church I describe, there are plenty of those who love to chain themselves and others down, and who close their eyes to the fact that they are dealing with unknowns. These people are the reason why I am where I am today. These are the ones who make the most noise, too. The lovers are a private type, and are more concerned with the interplay between them and their Deity. If you hear one speak of their faith, you're not likely to end up being put on a guilt trip, or feeling pressured. But some won't rest until you feel as guilty and stressed as they do.

But I guess that's the thing. To the lovers, Christianity is not a religion, but (as cliche'ed as it has become) a relationship. I haven't experienced much of other religions, but I suspect the demarcation is similar in them all.

In a way, when I think about it, I miss my old love. It was comforting having such a great Being to look out for me, and exciting to have such a goal to fight for. If it only hadn't been made to be such a burden to carry to live up to the standards He supposedly imposed, I might have stayed, despite the uncertainty. True, there would be a chance that

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Re: My darlin angel gal Mandi
by Schizo (Aranea@Spidersdance.com) on Mar 15, 2005 - 02:57 PM
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And once again, I somehow become anonymous in the middle of my post. I swear this article must be cursed!


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Re: My darlin angel gal Mandi
by Lestat (Heidjin@otakumail.com) on Mar 15, 2005 - 05:29 PM
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Well if what was said helped you realize and remember such things then I'm glad. because in the end its unimprotant wether the "statements" are or not true. That basically depends on everyone. It makes me smile and joyful that it made you doubt and look for things that's the whole point, if it wasn't then I would be no different from a religious fanatic trying to force you into believing something because I'm to frightened that it might be false. I'm all for the skeptical mind: don't believe in anything that you experience first so in a way we where saying the same thing with different words. Rock on schizo ; )


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Re: My darlin angel gal Mandi
by Lestat (Heidjin@otakumail.com) on Mar 15, 2005 - 05:47 PM
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Ofcourse I must add words wil always be words. The most primitive form of language. everything said or not said, its not something to be comprehended intellectually, it can never be. It has to be felt just like you felt that love u described . If u can then surely the answer to it intellectually is no different than the answer to a question I've known for some time now, what's the sound of the clapping of one single hand?


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Re: My darlin angel gal Mandi
by Arthegarn on Apr 27, 2005 - 10:31 AM
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Yep. I see long talks in the horizon. Coming closer real fast.


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Re: My darlin angel gal Mandi
by Arthegarn on Apr 27, 2005 - 09:11 AM
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Quite nice, Lestat. So what am I, a dummy or a hypocrite?

Being a Catholic in Spain does NOT pay. Specially a young one. Everybody looks down at you and looks for the hole the clergy (“los curas”) left when they sucked your brains out. When you prove not to be that dumb, when in fact you argue and rout their prejudices with logical argumentation then you are a fanatic who can’t see the obvious (the fact that you just proved that “the obvious” is simply a prejudice, misconception, primitive reasoning not taken to its natural conclusion or straightforward lie doesn’t seem to count)

Go a little deeper into religion, man. At least into Roman Catholicism. I mean a little deeper than when you get to the “booo ur a devil or you'll burn in hell crap with no substance inside”. There is a LOT under that part (which is, of course , the hypersimplification of misconception)

You say that all religions make the same mistake, that “none of them had the balls to accept that there are things which we don't know”. I can see you have deeply studied this subject. I am being ironic. Speaking for mine, we have clearly stated we don’t have the answers to all questions since the 3rd Century. Actually, thinking that you know it all is a capital sin (pride). Journalists are there to sell newspapers. Don’t believe what a journalist tells you a church says. Go to the church and hear them speak for themselves. Read the encyclics. Read the cathecisms

Albert Einstein was a believer last time I checked. Remember the Universal Constant fiasco, when he had an atheist period and how he regretted it later?

“The intellect is incapable of approaching the heartbeat”. Yeah. Sure. I recommend “Studies about Love”, by Ortega y Gasset. Love IS a mind phenomenon (actually a brain phenomenon). What you are describing is not love – it is a rush of hormones. Love is an intellectual, willful act. Passion is something else, passion does come from a hormone rush and passion and love are NOT synonymous. Study passion and it will likely disappear. Study love and you’ll see it does not, more likely it’ll thrive as you realize its deepest aspects, aspect which are not accessible at a mere first glance. Love is like music: it can be heard, listened to or even studied. And a music student does not enjoy music less than anybody else. If anything the student enjoys it more.

You say religions have hurt this world. True. It is also true that religions have been for millennia the only support for moral behavior. Without a religion there was no moral, no good, no evil, no responsibility. Just thirst and drinking. Mankind has only recently begun to consider good and evil as not associated with religion (and if you want my opinion even Kant didn’t do it all that well). I don’t think mankind is yet ready to function without religion (actually I think it’ll never be). Can you look at the history of the world and imagine it without religion? True, there would have been less crusades… most likely because half mankind would have been to busy killing the other half over their women, land, property or whatever and they wouldn’t have had time to build civilization. If religion hadn’t started from the beginning it would have had to be invented.

Just to be human is enough. Sure. And what is that, “to be human”? I think one can only become really himself, one can only achieve his or her fullest potential by exploring his or her spiritual nature. When you take the first step into spiritual reality you take your first step into religion. Perhaps not a “organized” one, perhaps a religion of one, but a religion nonetheless. And shunning human spiritual nature doesn’t strike me as being particularly “human”, much less trying to be “as much human” as you can.

You know, there is who I am, there is who I was and there is who I want to be. Following your “Respect who you are and allow your nature to take its own course” advice doesn’t strike me as a particularly clever way of travelin

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Re: My darlin angel gal Mandi
by Arthegarn on Apr 27, 2005 - 12:29 PM
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When I said by mere choice I meant by mere chance. Sorry about that article's grammar and errata, too, I wrote it in a hurry, half-hidden in the office...


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that up there was me
by Lestat (Heidjin@otakumail.com)
on Mar 15, 2005 - 09:42 AM
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I sorta got kicked out for no reason I wrote that "my darlin angel Mandi" comment


Re: Condemned to Eternal Hellfire
by asphyXiatedthoughts (asphyXiatedthoughts@hotmail.com)
on Mar 25, 2005 - 10:34 AM
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I myself don't believe in religion for reasons, its seems to me to be very complicated. So I've just always stayed out of it. Although I have my own beliefs when it comes to life and death and afterlife. Here are my beliefs:
Where do we go when we die? What happens to our mind and soul?
When a person dies their soul lives on. A person never mentally dies, only physically. A soul is carried into another world away from the one the person died amongst. And there the soul waits to either be emitted into a new person to continue carrying the knowledge of life that was learned in the past, or to have their original phsyical form renewed to begin again so a person can have a second chance in life. Our minds just don't disapear into nothing. Our minds follow our souls into another world. and go through the same thing as our souls in afterlife. Nothing about us dies except for our physical form as I have already said. It all is saved in eternity and passed on.

As my belief says our same soul and mind moves on. That leads to the beleif that we are just the same person when we move on.

I as well beleive that there is no hell nor heaven. Only one other realm. The one I talked about above, where our mind and soul go to after death. In my views, a person whom is sent back for a second chance, would be the same as having to go to hell if there was a hell. Where as if the mind and soul is reborn into a different person to live a new life that would be having gone to heaven if there was a heaven.

I wouldn't be worried. It seems you have it fine for yourself. If your happy with your life you shall end it well and begin again well.


Re: Condemned to Eternal Hellfire
by Arthegarn on Apr 27, 2005 - 07:55 AM
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Advice Nr.1.- Get to your closest Roman Catholic temple and ask if there are any youth groups. Ouch! I have been hit by this site's Karma! Ouch! Ay! Ok, Ok, I take it back but I had to try...

As for whether you are going to Hell or not... If you ask ME (meaning all that follows is my opinion) you are not. That is the short answer. The long one is REALLY long and has to do with what o you consider Hell and what do you consider Sin. When I talk about those matters I refer myself to the perfectly defined concepts of modern Theology, but I have found that most people talk about Heaven and Hell, sin and forgiveness without having a clue of what do they mean with those words. That non-definition of terms can only lead to intellectual disaster if you try to build any theory on these shaky grounds.

And most important: don't let the flames of Hell distract you from your quests. Paul VI said :"We all know Hell exists, but we trust it's empty". If you ask me people can only go to hell willingly. God's love is omnipresent, do you think you can "lose it" just by accident? It's like losing the pyramids. You can close your eyes and deny that it's there, though, and that way even though it'll still be there you won't perceive it. But as soon as you stop rejecting it, it's right there for you, anytime, anywhere, no matter what you have done.

You said: "What I really believe the thing to do is to be a good person, be kind to others, and do good deeds out of the kindness of your entire being not because you fear what may come. I also believe I should be happy and that I should have a damn good time while I am here." MRD, you have very little more to learn. I spend hour and hours considering what is good and what is evil so I can do the first and shun the second but in the end it all comes down to that. Good will. If I am mistaken I am sure God will forgive me. And you. As long as we do what we do after a serious thought, that is, and do not use forgiveness or "straight conscience" as an excuse to do whatever we please whenever we please. God gave us freedom, we have the right to use it, and the right to be mistaken... as long as we use that freedom with coherence and responsibility.

As for seeing your loved ones in the Afterlife... Jesus himself said something on the lines of: "don't talk about angels and things nobody has seen for that is a waste of time. Instead of that, do the will of the Father". El muerto al hoyo y el vivo al bollo.

Fear is our friend, it warns us of danger and fear of being wrong is the inevitable companion to responsible freedom. Just don't let your fear turn into panic.

There is no reason for your grief, my friend. You re not alone.



Re: Condemned to Eternal Hellfire
by lostinlament (-) on Apr 27, 2005 - 10:01 AM
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I know how you feel. And again, I admire you for speaking your mind.
However, the moment you speak your mind is the moment that others will attack you.
This is why I never talk about religion with anyone, because there is always someone who is ready to jump on their soapbox.
It's good that a few people are supporting you and are actually being courteous.
Then there are those ignorant cattle who want to beat you for being human..and not just any human, but an individual.
Cattle amuse me.
I can also bet I will be attacked for speaking my mind.
The world is an ugly place.


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Re: Condemned to Eternal Hellfire
by lostinlament (-) on Apr 27, 2005 - 10:02 AM
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That was meant to be addressed to MRD, the thread for the comment had an error.


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Re: Condemned to Eternal Hellfire
by feralucce (feralucce@wayoutonthecorner.com) on Apr 27, 2005 - 04:13 PM
(User info | Send a Message) http://www.wayoutonthecorner.com/feralucce
THere is nothing greater for a true believer IN ANYTHING than to be attacked fro their beliefs... it means they are forcing someone to consider their path, beliefs and future


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Re: Condemned to Eternal Hellfire
by dark_knight (samurai_hexus@yahoo.com) on May 21, 2005 - 11:09 PM
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keep in mind that this is the truth i have given freely and is not sugercoated in any way and it is infact the truth. : in the early dawns of christianity and i mean like roman times were pagans were great in number romans set out to convert them to the ways of god but 3/4s of them refused so the romans took their horned god stole off his crown of stag horns and gave him those of a bull and began to spread the rumor that the horned one was and is infact the "greatest evil" and you would burn forever if you gave him praise thuse hell was born; silly isn't it? now no matter what you belive or how you feel about this remember two things: 1. any holy book bible or otherwise when all the hype is taken away what are you left with? a book thats what just another book . 2. you kno that old saying "to the victor goes the spoiles" same goes for history the victor writes the history books and thats how it will always be that is all i can offer if it helps in any way your welcome and good luck finding out who you are and what your beliefs are.


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Re: Condemned to Eternal Hellfire
by Carmine (-)
on Jul 18, 2006 - 05:47 PM
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Greetings (if there is a better way for a respectful newbie to join the discussion, please let me know with courtesy). To my knowledge, every known organized belief system has its group(s) whose true devotion is keeping power rather than advancing the system's ideals. It can said about the Catholic Church as well as communism and Freudian psychology. It doesn't mean one should avoid study and perhaps adherence to a particular belief system. Just be aware that if any one person or one subgroup is claiming to speak for the belief system as a final authority that condemns all dissenters -- you need to mosey on and seek a broader representation.


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