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Theories: The first rule |
Posted by
Alugarde on Friday, September 20, 2002 - 04:03 AM PST
Sin's recent post has compelled me to ask this question that has been bothering me for some time. Before I start know that I'm not trying to attack anyone, I'm just curious.
It has been said that the first rule of goth is denial. Is it just me or does that seem like a little too much though? Say that person A dresses gothic and is interested in many things that are considered gothic (whatever those may be), but claims not to be goth.
But Goth is a stereotype. Wether or not you realize it, most people have a preconceived notion (ie stereotype) of what goth is.
To exaggerate the scenario lets say person A fits 99.9% of the common conception of what goth is, but still claims to not be goth because of that .1%
Am I missing something? When did everyone make the assumption that if you're not 100% pure blood goth you arent goth at all? Like it or not everyone has to eventually put themselves into some sort of a lable or category for the sake of simplicity.
I forget who said it, but somewhere on this site someone said something to the effect of "My theory: I'm goth becuase thats the quickest and easiest way I can describe to you what I am without long drawn out explanations"
I couldn't agree more.
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The first rule | Login/Create an account | 24 Comments |
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Re: The first rule
by KatB on Sep 20, 2002 - 04:13 AM
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Well... I suppose - trying to think back across the oceans of time - that at a certain point of life you search for an identity, a role to make you understand who you are and what you want to become. At this point I can understand why one may want to avoid the boxes and labels.
Later on... I suppose most people stop worrying about that?
I concider myself to be "goth" in my interpretation of the term, but I don't make a big thing about it.
I personally would not feel comfortable with being controlled by a chosen lifestyle.
And on the other hand, if somebody decided to tell me, for some reason, that I am not particularly gothic (from their view on goth) I would just shrug and walk on by.
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PS by KatB on Sep 20, 2002 - 05:54 AM (User info | Send a Message) http://www.magicka.net | Come to think - I've actually had lots of hassle about not being goth enough when dj'ing! I love to loosen the dancefloor up by playing the nontypical tune every now and then, not to be funny or ironic, but because I sincerely think it fits.
What people usually throw fits about is Madonna and Pet Shop Boys, but also Fields Of The Nephilim (!!!) and Prodigy. I'm still holding my breath (...not...) after playing Shakespeares Sister's Stay the other night... Most people appreciates these breaks though.
Hah, if you can't take _one_ single un-goth song during the night you have a serious case. And you can't even purchase clove cigarettes here ;-) |
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Re: The first rule by GothicSpanks (bloodyfreakchick@hotmail.com) on Sep 20, 2002 - 09:39 AM (User info | Send a Message) http:// | The word gothic to me means alot of things. First it means someone who is comfortable with themselves, comfortable with the way they dress and handle themselves and not afraid to reach outside the box. As you know, "Gothic" has meant many things over the years. Gothic literature, Gothic art, gothic people. But they all seem to have one thing in common....now i cant quite put my finger on what it is.... |
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Re: The first rule by AloneSoul (AloneSoul@hurting.com) on Sep 20, 2002 - 12:07 PM (User info | Send a Message) http:// | Straying from the topic alittle:
This is kinda like whole came first, the chicken or the egg. It's difficult to really answer "what is goth." It really various from person to person.
Sin’s argument was presented in a immature manner with many unjustified attacks on a single person and as well as all the people here. That is why all hell broke lose. |
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Who Cares!
by Mila on Sep 20, 2002 - 08:48 PM
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*cries* i'm so tired of hearing "am i goth or not?" "you're not goth." "you are so goth." "i am goth." "i'm not goth." "what is goth?" ...and all the other various forms...
who really cares?!?! someone explain this to me, cause i certainly don't understand what all the fuss is about.
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Re: Who Cares! by Mila on Sep 20, 2002 - 08:58 PM (User info | Send a Message) | ...and i'm not trying to attack anyone, i'm just ignorant, i don't understand why being goth or not is such an issue. |
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Re: Who Cares! by bettie_x (strangersangel@hotmail.com) on Sep 21, 2002 - 08:06 PM (User info | Send a Message) http://bettie_x.tripod.com/strangeasangels/ | Mostly it's teenagers or younger adults, because in a world without boundaries or explanations for anything anymore, let alone the ever difficult task of deciding who you really are, not what you or others THINK you should be, not being able to define yourself is frightening.
In a world full of somebodies it's hard to not be anything but yourself.
I dont' see the point either, simply because I"ve never been anything but bettie, and about as bettie as betties come.
I only say this about teenagers because MOST people, once they reach adulthood and have more important issues to deal with than which clique they most identify with, get over it. Or they become comfortable with who they are, aren't in a struggle to define themselves because through the years they already have. I don't envy teenagers, you couldn't pay me to be a teenager again. I'm happy being an overcynical and bitter adult :) |
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Re: Who Cares! by AloneSoul (AloneSoul@hurting.com) on Sep 21, 2002 - 11:54 PM (User info | Send a Message) http:// | I really don't know why...
I have to go, my fangs fell out. *covers mouth in haste* |
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Re: Who Cares! by Alugarde (SoulCiphyr@aol.com) on Sep 22, 2002 - 07:41 PM (User info | Send a Message) | *sighs* I'm kind of wishing I hadn't written this article, it came out wrong...
I wasn't trying to make it sound like it was a huge issue, it was just a curiosity I had noticed and was wondering about. |
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Re: Who Cares! by Mila on Sep 22, 2002 - 10:50 PM (User info | Send a Message) | *grumbles* i think what i wrote came out wrong too... i've just read too much stuff and heard too many opinions lately that all seem to view "gothdom" *snicker* as some sort of competition with "rules".
what i meant to say was: just be yourself
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Re: Who Cares! by bettie_x (strangersangel@hotmail.com) on Sep 22, 2002 - 11:44 PM (User info | Send a Message) http://bettie_x.tripod.com/strangeasangels/ | why you sorry? It's your words, and no matter how you presented them, it's your idea and never regret your stance. It's a tireless debate, I'll admit, and you're question tho asked before, isn't redundant. The question being "why and who the fuck cares?!" I've often thought the same thing, I just don't care enough to bother with it.
What's with all the kids writing things and then being sorry about it? It's not like anyone's calling you retarded....you started a debate boy/girl! Be proud it wasn't a multipost! |
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Re: The first rule
by callei (plyn@plynlymon.com)
on Sep 23, 2002 - 09:43 AM
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a few points i want to make:
"Gothic" is a label for a type of architecture, some literature, and a time period. It doesnt apply to people any more than "stucco" or "lead based" do.
"Goth" is a label applied to people that went to see some bands a long time ago( the disco era, and yes that was a long time ago). Goths are over 35 years old.
The rest of us are just freaks, often black clad freaks. When someone asks you if you are goth, say "No, i am a BCF" and let them wonder.
When the question of "what is goth" comes up, you have to look at who is asking the question and what they hope to get out of the answer; acceptance, distance, agreement, debate, food for thier vanity, a reason to hate you, money, sex, food, your time, whatever.
Its more fun to think of it as a zen question or a way to ponder exestential reality. god may be dead, but are these shoes goth?
And for the record, there are rules for being a black clad freak. And no i wont tell you what they are *falls over laughing*
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Re: The first rule by BlueVampyress on Sep 23, 2002 - 02:31 PM (User info | Send a Message) | aaah...but what do you say when you are tired of people asking?I know it must happen to most people here,getting asked all the time.....I just need a funny,or strange way of telling them to get out of my face...
Well..when you do get pissed off by that "are you goth" question..what do you say?(I'm curious) |
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Re: The first rule by callei (plyn@plynlymon.com) on Sep 23, 2002 - 03:32 PM (User info | Send a Message) http://www.plynlymon.com | try thinking up some amusing ones yourself like
"no, im just too lazy to match colors."
"no, my boss pays me to look this way"
"why do you ask? do you want to join?"
"just on thursdays"
"im syprised you know that word." (best if said with shocked voice)
"golly no, that would be bad."
" no, im a fashion slave."
"no, its my school uniform"
"no, and i am sueing my dry cleaners"
" are you hitting on me?"
" why would that make you go away?"
"no, i was trying to match the decor"
"does it matter?"
" nice shoes"
"are you a jock/preppie/mallrat/hick/wasp/christian(insert anything here)"
"well i have to wear something or they will put me in jail."
keep in mind that you dont have to rationalize anyone why you wear clothes, why you listen to music, read books, watch movies, or talk to people to anyone, unless they are going to arrest you or pay you. |
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Re: The first rule by Meranda_Jade (Meranda@mymind.com) on Sep 25, 2002 - 07:44 AM (User info | Send a Message) | Speaking of people reacting to how you dress... I went to the grocery store the other day, wearing what I had been comfortable in when I visited Callei and Shade in New Orleans... nothing too over the top or out of the ordinary, black flowing skirt, black lacy blouse, and the black hat I'd bought there with the gold mardi gras beads wrapped around the hatband... I got the strangest looks I've ever gotten in the state of Ohio... nobody approached me or asked why I was wearing that hat... (I'm certain it was the hat they were staring at) They just LOOKED. They seemed to be a little afraid too... It was just a strange culture shock for me... something that I was perfectly comfortable wearing in New Orleans is strange and exotic and makes me a complete outsider here. I'm gonna wear that hat every time I go outside from now on... MUWAHAHAHA! |
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Re: The first rule
by ThatOneWastedChick on Sep 25, 2002 - 02:36 PM
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Hmmmmm... after all the research I've done I still can't put what I feel goth is into words. Sometimes I'm not too good with words as some of you will soon find out... but... well... I guess that as long as you aren't just saying you're goth BECAUSE you wear black your okay, unless you're only going with the stereotypes. In which case I'd have to kick your @$$. lol. umm.... black clad freaks rule??? 0.0
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Re: The first rule
by weremouse on Oct 23, 2002 - 07:14 PM
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I was conceived in the box, but, since birth I have been ouside the box. There is no going back.
Since I am "were", I will settle for being half-Goth, which, to me, means a different perspective on the nature of Reality and the roles of people. If you can't be what you want to be, be what you have to be.
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