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Articles: The Strength of Goth |
Posted by
callei on Wednesday, July 25, 2001 - 03:46 PM PST
Someone asked if goth is suffering from mainstream acceptance recently, being weakened by the hordes that flock to the goth banner. The idea struct me as truly strange.
Goth is about individualism, first and foremost. How can an individual be hurt by there being more individuals? (ok there are ways, Stalin being a nice example.)
Goth is about art, in all the forms of it that we can bring to life. Does art suffer from there being more art? Is that like air suffering because there is more air. Some air is better, and some worse, true. But art, and the creation thereof, is art.
Goth is about acceptance. Again this is something that helps people. Im not saying accept that all people are equal, they are not and it is silly and wasteful to try to make them be "equal". Im saying that all people are different and hooray for that. I dont have to like them, or they me. We just have to go around not killing each other about it.
A sidenote here. I dont mean tolerance. To tolerate is to judge, find wanting and allow to continue anyway. You tolerate the flu, bad teachers, and unpleasant food. You tolerate poisons like alcohol and nicotine. You may even tolerate bad bosses, if you need the money. You dont tolerate entire cultures, or arbitrary grouping of peoples. To tolerate is to denigrate (look it up). Everyone here knows that I am anti-xian. I dont tolerate them. I DO accept them. They are here, sharing my world, and must be dealt with on equal footing. They are my inferiors in all ways except sheer numbers (1 vs gawd knows how many) and capacity for violence. I will not pretend that they are less or more than what they are.
But back to goth. Does goth need to be "strong", or to flex that strength? Goth is as strong as it ever was, however "Strong" that maybe. How can we define this strength? by numbers? by visibilty? by teen pregnancy rates? How does the subculture of artists define thier strength? How does the subculture of surfers define its strength?
Does a subculture need to be be "strong"? It is a part of the main culture, a subset of prevailing beliefs and mores. It excludes parts of the main culture and adds a few bits that are unacceptable to the host culture.
I am one of those bits. I am counter-culture and goth. Goth is my venue for cultural acceptance. I can only accept the main culture through the filter of this subculture. I will never be accepted by the main culture of our country, nor will I accept it. We are ememies. Goth is where we come to parley, to work out temperary truces.
Goth is as strong as I need it to be. I am as strong as I need to be. 'Nough said
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The Strength of Goth | Login/Create an account | 23 Comments |
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Re: The Strength of Goth
by Schizo on Jul 25, 2001 - 06:24 PM
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The problem with being too widely accepted is that it makes it easier for people to want to pretend to be you. Which I find annoying. Which is why I hope goth never becomes so accepted as to be trendy. I wouldn't say it hurts me, but it bugs me, and I don't like being bugged, strangely enough.
If goth is about individualism, then it can be hurt by people just "becoming goth" to be considered cool.
If goth is about art, then the purity of that art can be sullied by pseudo-art. Just like mainstream art is sullied by department-store prints.
I think more of what I was talking about was trendiness than acceptance. But trendiness often follows acceptance, which is what scares me about too much acceptance. Again, trendiness won't hurt me per se, but it will annoy the hell out of me.
Goth as a culture is a strong as the people who inhabit it. No matter how great that culture is, it is suceptible to the diseases of all cultures. History shows repeatedly that complacency in a culture brings rot. Goth in an individual's heart is as strong as that person, but I was talking about the goth culture. Perhaps one could think of the "strength" of goth as one would think of the "strength" of wine. Do we want it watered down? I for one appreciate the potency of goth as a heady and potent wine. I would be disappointed to have that diluted. And I fear it is becoming so. But my own personal strength as a goth is unaffected.
That is what I feel and am trying to express. I accept your point of view, Callei, as valid, and in fact in many ways I agree with you. But I still find room for concern in the approaching trendiness of the culture.
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Re: The Strength of Goth
by Maranda (saboneta@aol.com)
on Jul 26, 2001 - 05:51 AM
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Before one can discuss how strong Goth is, one must have a good definition of what Goth is. As I've proposed before, Goth is about the process of honoring those elements of human existence that the mainstream surface culture disowns. If this is correct, then Goth is exactly as strong as the mainstream culture's desire to cast away unwelcome elements-- which would make Goth very strong indeed.
By this criteria, Goth will not weaken (although it may change names and appearances) until mainstream culture decides to recognize and honor-- not "tolerate"-- all facets of human experience. This probably won't happen anytime soon.
One powerful tool in the bonding of large groups, including Goths, is a shared sentiment of exclusion. If we as a group are this, then we are different from those who are that. This process of definition defines nations, religions, political parties, families and subcultures. And as long as this sentiment remains, there will always be a group-- like Goths-- who embody the opposite.
I would also argue that even the "posers" in heavy makeup who don't understand Goth at all are still part of this embodiment. Why didn't they become surfers, or jocks, or Young Republicans? Why do they choose to identify with a reviled subculture like Goth? Because in their deep subconscious, perhaps they are choosing to honor what the dominant culture denies. That, or society's collective unconscious demands that a certain number of people take up this mantle, and the "posers" are filling out the numbers without truly understanding why..
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The flow of words comming from my head when i think of the goth culture
by VampCourt (Morbidchic@hotmail.com)
on Jul 26, 2001 - 05:03 PM
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its funny.. not to put a big look at me or anything.. but I am who i am. I have always been like this.. my parents encoraged me to be this way.. I am a artist and i am very passionate about everything.. then one day.. my dad is in a comic store and he was explaining to the guy behind the counter about how his daughter is a really intense artist and such.. and the guy coined the werd goth as describing me. funny little memory.. being twelve and learning you have a label.
Goth.. i believe..is not about how sexual you are in a tight corset with cleavage up to your chin.. goth is NOT sex. Goth is not Vampires. Goth is not Marilyn manson. Goth is Not shooting people in a public high school.
Goth is Intelligence.. Goth is Art.. Goth is Inspiration Goth is Buety and brilliance...
And True real goth people are the ones who have a taste of the fun things and Know the hardships of being diffrent.
There is so much more to being goth then that i cant really describe.. but when communicating with other goths, REAL goths ,not some dumb pimped up whore in a tight black dress and messy makeup all over her face but really real goths.. you can look at each other.. and just KNOW.
Again.. i have been in a positivly rotten mood today.. and i appologize for my bitterness.. but i am finding alot of people that are claming to be gothic and giving our culture a rotten name.
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Re: The Strength of Goth
by Mavdora (ellagoth@hotmail.com)
on Aug 06, 2001 - 02:12 PM
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Just a thank you message to Callei for this members correct and inspiring words towards the Gothic Empire. After being Goth for 6 years of my life and constantly fighting off the stupid stereotype I believe we need more people that think such as yourself to bring it to the attenion of the public that TRUE Gothism is not about dressing in black 24/7 and listening to the bleedin' Sisters of Mercy. Callei I'm Mavdora please email me with more of your views at: ellagoth@hotmail.com and check out my profile. :)
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