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Politics: Where is Our Social Conscience?
Posted by Domkitten on Sunday, December 15, 2002 - 04:04 AM PST

News
I'm living in a country where Americans are not looked upon with much favor. This has in large part to do with the over 100 military bases in South Korea for the last 50 years and the relatively minor control that the South Korean government has over those forces. Generally I am not hated, or disliked, and I have to admit that only twice have I heard the oh so endearing phrase "Yankee go home". I have to admit, though, that I can understand why people dislike Americans so much. Allot of the anger goes in the most part to the willingness to cover up, hide, or ignore events that effect non-Americans. Currently there is a great deal of anger being directed at the American military for the death of two young Korean teenagers who were on their way to a birthday party. As they were walking to the party a tank ran them over. The two men who were driving the tank were on duty at the time preforming training exercises. The driver said that he did not see them walking on the pedestrian road. His co-driver said that there was a communication break down which resulted in the driver being unable to hear the warning to stop. All of this happened in June as the World Cup games were getting underway and for the most part the story was buried in both Korean and American media. However, it was not forgotten and as the verdict came in, Korean's were roused once again.

These two girls died in one of the most horrific ways I can think of, and I really do feel horribly for their families. These were young girls. What is even more horrific is the way that the situation has been handled by the American government and the Military. Since the men in question where on duty at the time, they are under the jurisdiction of the Military and are not capable of being held responsible in a Korean court of law because of the SOFA agreement (Status of Forces Agreement ) which says that American's on duty cannot be tried by Korea. The driver, Sergeant Nino, was charged with negligent homicide and was acquitted last month, much to the dismay of Koreans. Had he been convicted, Sergeant Nino would have been faced up to six years of imprisonment. Under U.S.. civil and military law, the prosecution is not permitted to appeal a not-guilty verdict.

Koreans have been protesting the decision and are calling for a formal apology from the President. The President send his deepest regrets, but not in person. Officially, on camera, by phone, or even through an email, the President has not personally commented on the death of the two Korean girls. He sent his deepest regrets through an emissary, which only added to the feeling of disgust that many Koreans already felt.

In a country where there is already a great deal of anger at American military forces this came as a harsh blow. South Koreans were already disgusted by the President and his declaration against North Korea as a member of the Axis of evil. Relations between the nations of North and South Korea have been at a stalemate for a good 50 years, although the two countries have never signed a peace treaty and are still at war. Any negative sentiment or warmongering that the US will direct towards the North, and indeed, any operations that might be lead in the North, will come from the South, putting far more Koreans in danger than Americans.

The war on terrorism continues to give people in the South pause. It would not be unthinkable for the US to consider the North a viable target after they finish wiping up the pieces in Iraq. Considering the unwillingness of Bush to accept the release of information from Iraq about it's weapons program and the constant search the US seems to be launching for any reason to go to war, it would not be unthinkable to find the North a target. Especially after the announcement at the end of October of the North's nuclear weapons program.

I was home the weekend the verdict was announced. Home in my little apartment in South Korea, which is an oddity in and of itself. I was watching the X-files on AFN (Armed Forces Network) when across the bottom of the screen a news warning was flashed. The news was mostly for American military stationed in South Korea. It warned about possible protests because of the verdict, and cautioned military personal to be prepared for attacks on US bases in the South, to obey the curfew, and to avoid the general public of South Korea. I have never felt more in my life like going out and joining a protest.

One has to wonder, or at least question what it is that the US is currently doing in the world. I ask myself why all the time, but I can't find an answer. It seems our President has gone mad with power and is taking one tragedy and multiplying it hundreds of times over. I don't know.

For my part, however, this is one little tragedy, the death of two girls, and I thought I would share it so that it would not be entirely forgotten. In the end, only the families of these girls are seriously effected, they've lost their daughters.


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Where is Our Social Conscience? | Login/Create an account | 58 Comments
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Re: Where is Our Social Conscience?
by MorteAscendo (corpsmanwix@aol.com)
on Dec 15, 2002 - 01:19 PM
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Accidents happen.

Don't blame the Military for there indescresions. Christ, just note the fact that if all American forces just up uped and left in one day, your ecconomy would flop and North Korea would be on you like drunk jocks on the prom queen.


Re: Where is Our Social Conscience?
by Xaoswolf (Xaoswolfathotmaildotcom)
on Dec 15, 2002 - 04:17 PM
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The driver stated that he didn't see the girls, and there was a break down in communications that lead to him not being able to hear the warning. That is entirely believable, have you ever seen the feild of view that you get if you are the driver in a tank. And if there are comm problems, then there is no communication. Even if you are yelling in a tank, it is pretty hard to hear. Accidents happen.

As for attacking North Korea, I don't really see that as happening. They will back down if we threaten to cut off all trade. Also, unlike the countries in the middle east, they are actually willing to talk and come to a solution.


Re: Where is Our Social Conscience?
by bettie_x (strangersangel@hotmail.com)
on Dec 15, 2002 - 08:51 PM
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That is very very sad.
Unfortunately, it's not just tank drivers that smash innocent people. People die at the hands of others in accidents and otherwise every day. It doesn't make it okay, but people have to realise that it DOES happen.
I was about ready to duck and cover when I heard bushy boy's little "speech" about the "axis of evil"...I was like OH shit georgie, there goes the fucking neighborhood. Thanks a LOAD.
But as said, the difference between North Korea and the middle east is that THEY WILL talk, negotiate, which is to their utmost credit. The middle east *ugh* I don't know who's being more stupid in this situation...us or them. I know why we're there...OIL, baby, black fucking gold...rich man's war, it'll be, I guarantee. If they had nothing to hide, there wouldn't be a problem.
I just wonder who there is to inspect the US and OUR weapons...I'm sure we've got a few dirty bugs under our rug as well. More than a few.
Overall darlin, it's all a mess. If we had the answers, we wouldn't be on the internet with our quick fixits, we'd be SOLVING things.
Everything looks SO much easier in print.
We're not the only ones hiding and covering things up....EVERY country does it, EVERY politician does it...I swear they must have a screening for them in lawschool...."Are you good at blowing smoke up people's asses? Are you VERY sneaky and good at it? Can you lie with a straight face? You wanna make a LOAD of money?"
It's not just us, it's the sad truth of EVERY politician around the world.
Hell, look at the russians a few years ago that refused assistance (not only from pleas from the US to help out, but SEVERAL other countries) to save their men when their submarine sank to the bottom of a ravine. They didn't want ANYONE near it, even if it cost the lives of the men on the boat...which it did. What were THEY covering up?
What was so important on that damned boat that 200+ men had to suffocate in an iron coffin at the bottom of the ocean? Only then to say "nothing could be done"...what of THEIR families?

Covering your tracks is the key to politics.
It's unfortunate and disgusting, but true.

I feel for those girl's families...but they could have just as easily been mowed down by a car, or shot by another person, or whatever numerous reasons people get killed. Accidents happen, it's so very sad, but sometimes there is just nothing you can do, or could have done differently.
Not to speak ill of the dead, but couldn't they have HEARD it coming? Then again, people say that all the time when someone is killed on train tracks. Until it's happened to you, you just won't know.

How very sad.


Re: Where is Our Social Conscience?
by Rae (darkness_embraced1@yahoo.com)
on Dec 15, 2002 - 09:16 PM
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Do you know that Korea ranks as one of the highest for pedestrian fatalities in the world? thats right..it does!! almost 50% of fatalities are vehicle/pedestrian related. It's not hard to see why, no sidewalks, crosswalks..nothing. And did you know that vehicle operators who commit a minimum of 10 traffic infractions are arraigned? The Special Case Law Against Traffic Accidents has been known to allow many motorists who have killed pedestrians to avoid any criminal punishment whatsover.
But yet, here we have a incident where we have Koreans screaming for the blood of U.S. soldiers due to the loss of 2 young people, but on any other given day, under any other circumstances, would have been dismissed. Looks like we have some double standards set here..uh huh..that doesn't fly.
Secondly, it's been rumored that in Korea, your guilty before you are innocent...so, I am sure these US soldiers would have had a fair trial in Korea..yeah right..lol.
And I just have to wonder about something here..Big tank..loud noise...ground rumbles...moving slow..If it were me, my ass would have been clear out of it's way, I wouldn't stand there and just let it run me over. I don't know..something just doesn't set right with me on that one. But needless to say, yes, my condolenses go out to the families and their loss..but it was a accident for crying out loud. And unfortunately, these kinds of accidents happen across the world everyday! But since it was an American in a semi hostile country, it will be used to nit pick a third world war.
Yes, let's not forget these two individuals, but while we are at it, let us not forget the Canadians or fellow Americans that were killed by friendly fire..oh..yeah, I forgot, Canadians are our allies, so their deaths have no significance. Shame on the Koreans who use this tragedy of two young people as an excuse to spew thier very own hatred. I think the social conscience could be analyzed with much criticism on that side of the fence as well with a finger reflecting right back.


Re: Where is Our Social Conscience?
by Dolorosa (SixOfSwords@IU.zzn.com)
on Dec 18, 2002 - 01:29 AM
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People die, sometimes thats a good thing, sometimes it's a tragedy. Politics, like shit, happen...get more than three people together and politics happen, it's a loathesome fact of life. Even worse, but inevitably...war, death, conflict and battle are the fountains of blood that oil the gears of change. Without conflict, nothing much happens...people are happy for awhile, and then they decay.
I honestly feel a pang of anger for the deaths of those girls...and as far as the War on Terrorism goes, to tell you the truth...sometimes I really do wish it would all just go away.
But it won't.
People die, shit happens...
And another thing...our president isn't mad with power, at least I don't believe so. Mad with power is something else, something terrible...if he truly was power mad, fueled with the thirst of destruction, I know without a fraction of a doubt, that the amount of dead people this country would make would be stunning on a biblical level. He's impassioned, yeah...He IS just a man. He's got his fuck ups, but you can't make me believe all he desires is wealth, power, or superiority...he's got a hell of a lot of people he has to think about, every single fucking day.
And you know what makes it worse? More than half of 'em don't like him just because he is who he is...you ever met the guy? I'm usually real careful about not judging people I've never met.
Anywho...
The world sucks...so what are you going to do about it?


Re: Where is Our Social Conscience?
by Domkitten (domkittenish@spanking.com)
on Dec 18, 2002 - 04:04 AM
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My argument is not that the military sucks, or that it should not exist, only that the US is constantly overstepping the bounds of civility with nations that host military men.

We expect the host nations to be culpable and compliant with all of our wishes, however we give very little freedom or responsibility for our actions over to the host nations government. I think that is questionable behavior. As a civilian living in Korea, the laws of the country bind me. GI’s have far more privilege than I do, when it comes to the law. This is not to say that members of the armed forces are not bound by laws, because I know that they are. Simply, that the respect members of the military show for Korean laws is very slim.

I do think that the men should at least see a day in Korean court, though I doubt it would happen. If it is an accident then surely this can be proven. However, systems are human and at this point, I agree, that these men would probably not have a fair trial. They should have had a trial months ago, before this incident became such a rallying force within South Korea.

The President did finally make an personal call to Kim Di-Jung after a rally in Seoul where more than half a million Koreans protested the verdict. However, because of the coming election the issue will not go away or be diffused at this point with words of apology.


Re: Where is Our Social Conscience?
by AloneSoul (AloneSoul@hurting.com)
on Dec 18, 2002 - 05:23 PM
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The death of one is a tragedy, the death of a million is just a statistic.
- Marilyn Manson


Re: Where is Our Social Conscience?
by Geist on Dec 18, 2002 - 08:53 PM
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I don't think Dom was tryin ta knock the military Morte . We all 3 know how it is serving our country... Just the way our government handled the situation and so many others.


Re: Where is Our Social Conscience?
by bettie_x (strangersangel@hotmail.com)
on Dec 18, 2002 - 11:11 PM
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I gotta throw my two cents into the drunk tank...and beware, that's where *I* shoudl be right now.

Dom isn't whining. He/she/it saw/heard something that bothered them to the point of writing an article. Morte, kiddo, don't get your freshy presed whites into a wad. I know you stand behind your ...uhm...military (sorry, lost my train of thought for am inute) and that it is a huge part of your life. and we know that you've seen your fair share of injusctices placed upon personel simply for bing somehwere that a few people don't want the military to be.
I agree with you a lot on your standpoint, belive me, I do....but I also can sympathise where dom is coming from (sort of) in seeing something bad happen and having it bother them. I belive dolo brought this up in one of his first posts ont he board...about beinga board a ship and watching the coastline adn all the people on it blow up.
War and global nasties make things wretched on the home front and abroad...no need to make it worsre...."expatriot" or sailor boys included.
Oh god I know this is so incoherant but Ir eally DO have a point. Here it is:
Dom 'aint whining. Just makin a point.
Morte 'aint bein an asshole. Just stickin to his guns.
Bettie is drunk as a fuckin mick again and trying SO hard to think straight.
I really am. I promise.


Re: Where is Our Social Conscience?
by Schizo on Dec 31, 2002 - 09:55 AM
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When driving a tank, you cannot see at all to the right, and nothing at all directly in front of you.

I know this, because my favorite cousin drives tanks, and I was talking to him Saturday and he told me this. (He's on leave after completing 6 months in Kosovo.)

If there was indeed a communication breakdown, then I can very well imagine a tank driver running someone over without even seeing them. The girls probably thought they could cross in front of the tank. Maybe the tank was going slower, and just at that point sped up. Maybe it was something else. The point is, the only way you can see while driving a tank, is the use of certain periscopes with a very limited range of vision.

If that tank driver were my cousin, I would certainly hope he would be tried by the U.S. Military, which understands tanks, rather than the South Koreans, many of whom hate Americans.

The reason military men are tried by the military rather than the country they are stationed in, is, in part, because of military secrets. There are many things on every military base that are not for the general public to know. For security reasons, any investigations involving military personel MUST be kept in the military.

While there is a chance that the tank driver WAS being negligent, the chance is far greater that the girls were just being foolhardy. And why should the President have to grovel because two Korean girls (sad as it is) made a dangerous decision and lost their lives as a result?


Re: Where is Our Social Conscience?
by feralucce on Jan 02, 2003 - 01:12 AM
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Ok... government owes an apology... period...

-BUT-
let me ask an important question... if you see a tank... what motivates you to be in the path of a vehicle like this while it is on maneuvers. We're talking about a 30 ton piece of steel that produces about 60 - 85 decibels while in operation...

it seems that we owe an apology and these two deserve a darwin award for removing themselves from the gene pool

In answer to your question... the US is doing, actively, what it has for the last 100 years in the world at large... FUCKING WITH EVERYONE ELSE.



Re: Where is Our Social Conscience?
by bettie_x (strangersangel@hotmail.com)
on Jan 02, 2003 - 02:21 AM
(User info | Send a Message) http://bettie_x.tripod.com/
Know what? I dont' think it even matters anymore because

THE FUCKING WORLD IS ENDING.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030101/ap_on_he_me/human_cloning_5

THere...I said it...I'm gonna go buy guns now.


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