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| Articles: Strange religious stuff |
Posted by
chameleon on Sunday, August 19, 2001 - 04:50 AM PST
I met this person the other day who belonged to an interesting schism of christianity. He claimed that his church believed that if you fulfilled your divine destiny you went to heaven.
Being a young theologist, I asked him a few questions. One of them was:
"If what you believe is true, then Hitler would go to heaven if he was supposed to "kill" all those people."
(Note: Hitler really didn't kill all those people, he just ordered it. While I'm at it, I think Stalin had Hitler beat in the genocide department.")
Expecting a "God no!" from the redneck, I got instead a:
"Hmmmm. You know, you could be right."
I haven't talked to this person since (cuz I can't find him), and I really want to talk to his pastor. This is an interesting outlook on Heaven, don't you agree? Imagine meeting Hitler in heaven!
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| Strange religious stuff | Login/Create an account | 17 Comments |
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Re: Strange religious stuff
by Castrator on Aug 19, 2001 - 05:34 AM
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The queastion is, though, was Hitler 'supposed' to kill all those people?
If so, then he has followed God's will and according to that person's church, Hitler is now in heaven.
And yes, Stalin did 'kill'(Order the killings of, anyway) much more people than Hitler did.
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Re: Strange religious stuff
by callei (plyn@plynlymon.com)
on Aug 20, 2001 - 07:45 AM
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I wonder, i mean what parts of thier faith did this person leave out? Did they mean that anyone who believed in god, lived by some of that god's rules, AND lived a good life? or did they mean that anyone that lived life to its fullest would go to heaven? those are the two options that first struck me; that he had made basic assusptions in what he was telling you (believe in the god and follow and least some of the rules, etc). The idea that his god rewards only those that strive really hard also intersested me. Think about it, only the most famous and psychotically driven will make it to heaven. there will be no sleeping in in that heaven, nor lazy sunday afternoons. And what would this hell be like?
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Re: Strange religious stuff
by Maranda (saboneta@aol.com)
on Aug 20, 2001 - 09:43 AM
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That philosophy sounds more Thelemite than Christian. Thelemites believe that the discernment and fulfilment of one's True Will is the most important task of one's life. But they don't preach that you'll get to Heaven that way. That pastor sounds like he's been reading a lot of Crowley.
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Re: Strange religious stuff
by feralucce on Aug 21, 2001 - 10:30 AM
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Destiny: 1. N. A predetermined course of events considered as something beyond human power or control: “Marriage and hanging go by destiny” (Robert Burton).
2. n an event (or course of events) that will inevitably happen in the future
By his beliefs... everyone goes to heaven... and all this... ALL of this... is meaningles... There is no balance to serve... order, chaos, light dark, good, evil... all of it is a waste of time...
Seems... well... depressing...
Feral
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Re: Strange religious stuff
by bettie_x (strangersangel@hotmail.com)
on Aug 22, 2001 - 12:35 AM
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it all sounds like a confusing waste of time to me, but that' s just my humble opinion.
That's what I love about satanism....I can lay in the tub smoking lucky strikes and drinking a vodka tonic, reading nzeitche, and contemplating only the dilemma of this:
do I really want to shave my legs?
what is the nature of shaving one's legs?
boobies, that's what I say to the whole ordeal.
My destiny is to become that crazy old lady with the beast of a dog that lives at the end of a street throwing apples at neighborhood kids and popping footballs that come over my briars.
Besides, I dont wanna go to heaven...I look abominal in white, and I'm tonedeaf, so my harp would make a better slingshot than a catalyst for heavenly tunes.
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Re: Strange religious stuff
by bettie_x (strangersangel@hotmail.com)
on Aug 25, 2001 - 12:42 AM
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I actually heard something rather interesting and thought provoking from a co-worker's second hand story a friend of his told him.
His family was really deep into their native american heritage, and he was speaking with a shamen one day that was a family friend.
The shamen spoke of an old prophecy of "red skies"....that some day the skies would turn red....when the skies turn red you must go to the woods and stay there for one year until the skies were no longer red. Others, civilization, government, would try to drag you back. You would be hunted, persecuted, and dragged from your forrest protection....and you would die if they succeeded. If you live that first year without incident, you must remain in the forrest for ten full years, or returning to the normal world would mean your demise. After a full ten years after the red skies, you could return and find most of civilization gone. He said that was the only way to survive.
He also lived near a senator's house, and they would log/hunt/play in the fields near, and often speak to the senator. The senator spoke of the coming use of human barcodes. The boys said they would refuse the barcode, and the senator replied "you would have choice...you would be an outlaw, and you'll either have to accept the barcode, or spend your life in jail or dead"
We pondered this.....and came up with this thought, he being raised in a catholic/lutherine faith:
The mark of the Beast.
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Re: Strange religious stuff
by Arthegarn on Aug 27, 2001 - 10:54 AM
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I think we are missing a point here.
As long as you believe in a God (or pantheon, or Force, or whatever) that created the Universe and expects something from you, then you HAVE to do that. For really religious people what defines good and evil is the concept of sin and commandment: good is what God said, evil is what God forbid. So, if you believed in a God who commands you to "fulfill your divine destiny" and it was to kill 6 million jews, then you did OK and you go to heaven. What you did was good, and having saved them would have been evil.
Now, what I don't see anywhere in that guy's religion is Christ. I mean, for any Christian it should be obvious that your "divine destiny" can't be to sin, so Hitler went straight to hell, you don't have to wonder. A religious system in which Hitler goes to heaven is imaginable (I guess that's what Hitler thought), but it has little to do with orthodox christianity.
As a personal comment, it should also be obvious to any Christian that there is no such thing as destiny, fate or whatever... but I might hurt someone's feelings si I'd better shut up.
Arthegarn
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