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Articles: Is Goth Genitic? |
Posted by
NightSide on Monday, July 23, 2001 - 04:52 AM PST
I am 46 been what is now called 'goth' since I was a kid. Black has always been my color, and freedom my creed. My first car at 15 was a 54 Caddy Hearse with a coffin in the back that I used to sleep in sometimes, at first to piss my parents off but I found it very comfortable and handy on road trips later on.... I have some funny stories about some of those too.
But to my point.....
At one point in my life I was married to this VERY uptight chick, big mistake and it did notlast. We had a bitter divorce that ended with me being disallowed any custody or visitationof my daughter. They did not approve of my 'goth' lifestyle, a tattooed freak that acts like some sort of vampire was her lawyers quote best as I remember. So the last contact I had with my daughter was when she was 1 year old. Not enough to shape her life I would think.
So last week, Friday 13th, I had just gotten back from getting this wild vampire tattoo on my sholder, I drive up the drive way and see these two strangers sitting on my back steps waiting for me to come home. The chick, dressed all in BLACK looking goth as hell and vagely fmiliar in some way walks up and asks my name. I tell her Jesse James why? She looks at me hard and puts out her hand and says 'Hi DAD, I am Jennifer James, your doughter.' There she stands. GOTH just like me..... Her boy friend tells me that he tried to talk her out of wearing black but she insisted as it was her way, and why be phoney.... Then I show up dressed as I always do in black..... We start to get to know eachother, her favorite thing is vampire lit and vampires in general, (I don't profess to be a vampire but I have been accused of such on occassion), goth and a true freedom lover. The more we talk the more I hear my own thoughts echoed, just like twins I would start a thought/sentence and she finishes it for me, too freaky..... Even our palm prints (for those of you into that) are so close to identical you need a loope to see much difference but for size.
Now her mom and step dad were anti goth so was/is her half sister so it didn't come from them and they did all they could to make sure she didn't take after me, but it seems thatthe more they tried to crush what was me out of her the more like Dad she became till whenwe met (she is nearly 19 now) she grrew up to be so much like me that it freaks me out a bit and leads me to wonder..... Is it genetic? Who knows, all I know is that we the UNBOWED goths of this world have another in our ranks! I always have LOVED Friday 13th's it has always been my lucky day, the last one was the best I have ever had, like as not will go down in my book as one of the happiest days of my life. A VERY Kewl friday 13th in deed! Had to put Radiofyre (my little goth pirate FM stereo station) on and rock Hells Canyon to GREAT tunes all night!!!!
Stay Dark!
Jesse - NightSide
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Is Goth Genitic? | Login/Create an account | 15 Comments |
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Re: Is Goth Genitic?
by Maranda (saboneta@aol.com)
on Jul 23, 2001 - 05:55 AM
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I don't know if Goth can be genetic, but I have a different theory. You say that your ex was "uptight". By that, do you mean that she decided that there was only one way to think, talk, behave and relate to the world? Did she refuse to acknowledge anything that didn't fit neatly into her image of how the world should be?
You say that your ex tried to "crush what was [you] out of her". In psychological terms, that's called disowning the shadow. It means that some people simply refuse to acknowledge anything that doesn't fit with the image they want to keep of themselves, or in this case, of their families.
The problem with this, as you have observed, is that the disowned traits don't just disappear. They can't simply be "crushed". They always find expressions somewhere.
Your ex's choice of you for a husband was the first example I see of her "shadow traits" sneaking out. She chose a mate who was represented everything she didn't want to see in herself. It makes sense that her child would become another vessel for those same traits.
There could be some karmic issues as well. Perhaps when your daughter was concieved, that particular soul became your child because she had some karmic issues in common with you.
Anyway, congratulations on the reunion! I'm sure that you and Jennifer will become good friends. Best of luck!
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Re: Is Goth Genitic? by Anonymous-Coward on Jul 23, 2001 - 10:46 AM | I am very aware of all the psych implications. One of my degrees is a BS in clinical psych and did take a few grad calsses as well while working on a MA in cinema, so I sure have given all that concideration. The karmic line is no doubt there strongly, the thing that seems so strange to me is the way when we talk I will start and she finishes at times like with identical twins, that is what REALLY trips me out.
As far as how up tight the X was/is.... You have heard the expression about dragging a needle out of the rump.... Well a D-12 wouldn't stand a chance..... And the step dad is even worse I guess. Of course there is the tell a kid NO and that is the first thing that they do too, the rebillion thing. But the likeness goes SO deep. The Kewl thing to me is when she talks about the X and Step and she uses the word parents, it is almost spat out. When she calls me dad there is only friendship and kinship no raspy edge. It's really great in a lot of ways. We can be REAL friends, not the rocky relationship that parents and kids have at times. Funny I was adopted and just made contact and friends with my blood mother a year or so ago and we are closer already then her and the kids she raised..... Some ways I think we will be closer then we ever could have been otherwise. She already tells me things she would not dare talk to her 'parents' about and that is just kewl with me. Life sure throughs some strange thiings at one, but that keeps it interesting! |
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Re: Is Goth Genitic? by callei (plyn@plynlymon.com) on Jul 23, 2001 - 06:26 PM (User info | Send a Message) http://www.plynlymon.com | I think genetics is right, but not the bare "decides what you look like" kind of genetics.
It is soo prevelant in world cultures for the children of the leaders to become leaders, to need to be leaders. Artists often beget artists (maybe this group of traits is recessive, it sure skipped me). the children of thinkers tend to be thinkers. the child born on the "wrong" side of the sheets, acts just like its siblings. twins, seperated at birth and both adopted, still act like thier blood parent, if the trait is strong.
I think that is really the point. If the trait is strong then it can be passed down undiluted. if it is weak, then, unless the other partner also has "it" in the right amounts, then it says half hidden. It shows as a predilication for velvet, or a subtle sense of humour, or the desire to start new cults for money. ok maybe that is jsut the people that I know...
anyways
My dad is goth, not the tatoo, vampire loving sort, but the poetry, read everything in site psuedo-intellectual sort. My younger brother, whom i hadnt seen in 7 or 8 years, wears alot of black, is painfully literate, and mopes with the best of them.
Now you could argue that my brother, being raised in a similar environment, is rebelling in a similar way. But the only thing that we have in common is the genes from our father.
I grew up in my mothers house and he in our fathers house.
From listening to my father talk about his older relatives, i get the feeling that my greatgrand mother would count as one of the family as well.
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Re: Is Goth Genitic? by NightSide (1darksoul666@home.com) on Jul 23, 2001 - 07:50 PM (User info | Send a Message) http://members.home.net/nightside2k/ | Hahaha tattoed vampire heh? Well I also have a BS in clinical psych and a MA in Cinema Communications.... So I guess I qualify as both? Parents here were both college professors and scientists.... (Me I am dyslexic so I spell like crap) So I have had a VERY deep intellectual upbringing. Honors student all through under grad and graduate school all that. Tell you Jenny got ALL that too.... Her IQ is over 160 just like all of our family. So we don't suffer lack of intellect either. I have found that most of us tattooed freaks are of above the ave, the ave doesn't seek the new and the different, the ave has no imagination.... No desire to be unique. So PLEASE don't stero type people that like tatts and ride harleys (I know that was not the intent but some people won't relize that).... We have more then our share of smart floks in our heard too LOL..... And, I also write poetry.... True it be dark and vampish at times....
Yea there is a lot to genetics. I also find though that most 'goth' folk are well above the ave when it comes to smarts. The dull people have no interest in being free let alone to stand out and show thier contempt for the social values that are concidered shal we say the 'N' word.... Normal?
Hey stay Dark and live FREE!
NightSide |
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Re: Is Goth Genitic? by Maranda (saboneta@aol.com) on Jul 24, 2001 - 05:42 AM (User info | Send a Message) | Your comment about Goths being above average in intelligence stuck out. I don't like to brag about this-- it's just a damn number, after all-- but I have an IQ that qualifies me for Mensa. For years my parents wouldn't tell me what it was so I wouldn't get an ego about it. I believe that part of what makes one "goth" is an ability to comprehend more than what is spoon-fed to us. Most of what we can understand, from a very early age, is rather upsetting. Those of above-average intelligence figure out very early that the world sucks and the lunatics are running the asylum. We can't just traipse through life oblivious. The reality of the darkness of the world broadsides us from the moment we get up to the moment we go to sleep. Every day.
So we express what we see through dark music, black clothing and ironic cynicism. This labels us "Goth".
If that kind of intelligence is genetic, then a Gothic mentality might easily follow. |
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Re: Is Goth Genitic? by Schizo on Jul 24, 2001 - 06:24 AM (User info | Send a Message) | Although, on the other hand, we have all those people who claim to be goth and post all the inane stuff on the forums... that rather blows a hole in the theory, unless we all decide to not call them goth. Otherwise, I agree (says the daughter of the insane guy who tested above genius level after having been in a coma for weeks and a H.S. valedictorian who put herself through college from home while raising 2 kids and running a sewing business and dealing with said insane guy!) |
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Re: Is Goth Genitic? by callei (plyn@plynlymon.com) on Jul 25, 2001 - 04:31 PM (User info | Send a Message) http://www.plynlymon.com | I dont call them goth. i would bother. i dont call anyone but myself goth (except to tease them). If someone calls themself goth and can live up (down?) to it, i accept that label and will joke with them about gothness and what its like and all that.
Goth is as goth does, just like your complaint about people calling themselves christians when all they are is xians at best, and herd animals at worse.
As for IQ.... I'll brag 182 on a good day recently, junior mensa since 10 or 12 years old. math olympics, Johns-hopkins scholarship program. etc.
Im still dyslexic, short, and prone to eat too much chocolate. I think that that "defines" me more..... |
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Re: Is Goth Genitic? by NightSide (1darksoul666@home.com) on Jul 25, 2001 - 08:54 PM (User info | Send a Message) http://members.home.net/nightside2k/ | You know it is weird a LOT of 'goth' folk I know are dyslexic... Me too, and my daughter a little... I won't mention my IQ but we are very close. But a lot of high IQ people are dyslexic...
Yea one reason I look the way I do it keeps judgmental people and christians WELL at bay, they judge and fly before I get close enough to get bugger! LOL Sheep are a pain... And the so called GOOD Christians... Just looking for an invisable buddy th blame thier problems on... And to absolve thier weekly sins... Just so they can do it all over again... Don't get me started... LOL |
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Re: Is Goth Genitic? by Schizo on Jul 26, 2001 - 05:58 AM (User info | Send a Message) | Oops, sir! There are goth Christians, too! And I do think that is a very simplistic way to describe the relationship between God and a person. I'm sure you have reason to dislike Christians. I dislike most Christians, too. So much that I wish I didn't have the name. But there are some who are worth knowing. I won't preach, but I also won't stand by and just let this pass. God is beauty and power and truth, and I love Him. But I don't blame my problems on Him. I blame them on life and my own stupidity. And yes, I go to Him when I screw up, and maybe I screw up again in the same way. I don't care if that means I'm stupid and weak. We're all stupid and weak in some ways, and smart and strong in others. God is my friend (my invisible buddy, if you will) who helps me stand up again, and strengthen the weak parts and educate the dumb parts and have the courage to give it another try.
I'll shut up now, just couldn't let that one pass. |
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Re: Is Goth Genitic? by callei (plyn@plynlymon.com) on Jul 25, 2001 - 04:24 PM (User info | Send a Message) http://www.plynlymon.com | I assumed you to be smart, and your daughter as well. What i meant about the pseudo-intellectual thing was the sort that lives in books, not in the world.
My dad hides in books, lurks in corners, pines on the moors. Very ingoing, introverted.
My mom is a punk (she still had blue hair when i was 8) I think i got my "kick 'em in the teeth, twice" attitude from her.
I KNOW that Harleys and tats dont mean dumb. And both your degrees are in "Ways to Communicate to People". Outgoing. Adventurous, extroverted.
What I meant, and said so poorly, was that you are the outgoing sort of goth, and your daughter got that from you. The strength to fight the norm as well and the desire.
And for everyone out there, if you are ever in trouble, real trouble (being chased by a gang, having your car stolen in a strange town, etc) go immediately to those harley riding freaks. They are often some of the most upstanding people that you will ever meet.
My mommy taught me that. |
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Re: Is Goth Genitic? by NightSide (1darksoul666@home.com) on Jul 25, 2001 - 09:05 PM (User info | Send a Message) http://members.home.net/nightside2k/ | Well I was sure that you were meaning nothing but good.... I didn't take it that way but I thought others may.... You know how people can be. Though I am gald you clarified exactly what you ment.... Kewl... I have been acused of much worse! Hahahaha...... My highschool nick was Eigor cause I drove a hearse and was rumored and justly so to sleep in the coffin in back.... SO to me being a tattooed freak has always been a badge I wore with pride.... Call me anything but if you call me the 'N' word 'normal' that be fighting words.... LOL
Hey I have done my share of pineing too but one day the notion of UNBOWED (well didn't call it that then) came over me and I stopped looking for someone to blame and took my life into my hands and stopped trying to do what others thought I should and just did what I felt to be right for me.... The world opened up and so did life.
Your Mom sounds like a wise lady. The Bikers DO understand FREEDOM and so do gothics.... Then there are the gothic bikers.... (Sad to say I sold my last hog 10 years ago... Maybe it is time for a new one....)
Live FREE and Stay Dark
NightSide |
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Re: Is Goth Genitic?
by Meranda_Jade (scurtis510@home.com)
on Jul 24, 2001 - 01:36 AM
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Wow, that sounds so much like my story, cept I was on the other end of it... I grew up, knowing I had a father out there, but for some odd reason my mom wanted me to have no contact with him... I was spacy, a little irresponsible growing up, told I was lazy and scattered... I was also told that my dad was the type of person who'd play daddy for a little while and them go away, leaving a broken-hearted little kid... When I was 20, I met my Dad... he was ridiculously easy to find, just looked in a few phone books, and called him up one day... Turned out that, not only did I look a lot like him, he was exactly me in personality... a bit scattered, but such a good-hearted person... we hit it off immediately... but I turned out to be not such a good daughter, I didn't keep in contact with him, though I love him dearly, and am glad to know him, I just haven't taken the time to pursue a more meaningful relationship... it would probably be different if I'd grown up with him as my "Dad"... he tried so hard to be a father to me once we'd met, but I'd outgrown the need for a Daddy by then... I was a mother myself by then, and had my life to live, and lots of things on my mind... I never did take the time and effort necessary to make a more meaningful relationship. And I do feel badly about it.... Anyway, getting back to the topic of this post, personality is definitely genetic... I have no doubt about that... for years, I'd felt I was adopted or something, until I met my Dad, then I realized where I'd come from... I got most of me from him...
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Re: Is Goth Genitic? by NightSide (1darksoul666@home.com) on Jul 25, 2001 - 08:46 PM (User info | Send a Message) http://members.home.net/nightside2k/ | Yea I hear that.... I an not even going to try to be a dad, woundn't know the first thing about how or where to start. But I DO know how to be a friend.... The thing that has ment the MOST to me and I'll bet it is the same with your dad.... Her just looking me up and me seeing so much of ME in her gives me true HOPE for the future and it brought me something that means more to me then about anything. It means to me that what I thought was a sad wasted chapter of my life brought someone of great beauty depth and understanding into this world, and I know of I never see her again that there is a big part of me going forward in the world. But we live just blocks away now and Jenny wants to have some family that does not reject her and treat her like an unwanted problem. Her mom is (and I do hate to say this) not to bright and she HATES people that are smarter then her, her current hubby is her clone and her family makes pet rocks look smart.... Jenny has been persucuited not only because she was like me but also becuase of her intellegence, so she hungers for some family she can feel is HER family not a pack of yapping dolts. That sounds crule but it is all to accurate. So I hope we will be friends. I know she doesn't need parents right now you should hear her spit the word out.... Nope friends is what I do best, and what she needs most so I think we will get along and stay in touch. But even if not, I KNOW her now and that is so worth all the crap that came before.... Nothing will ever take that away. Bet your dad feels the same.... Just gald to see that there was a good thing that grew from a past that may have been painful..... |
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Re: Is Goth Genitic? by Fergshmuck (fury_alecto@yahoo.com) on Jul 27, 2001 - 09:28 AM (User info | Send a Message) | I'm not quite a goth, per se, and neither is my mom, but I know what both of you feel like. All the time I was growing up, my dad told me that my mom was a druggie road whore with no sense of responsibility or love for her children, and she was this and wasn't that. (now, no offense to Jewish people- I'm half one myself and know that I have some of the same "qualities"..) Both my dad and my uncle are hardcore Jews, and we all know what that means- "My Way Or The Highway, Kiddo." So in my later high school years, my request for a year after graduation to think about what I wanted to do and major in in college was denied repeatedly, and I got that same "philosophy" thrown in my face again and again. So while I was living in the college dorm being miserable, I called my mom about a week before I turned 18 and arranged to drop out, pack my stuff, and go with her to Arizona a week after my birthday. It was to be my late B-day gift, as I put it. ^_^ Well, when I got there, I found a room that looked alot like mine had when I was in high school, except with more colors and Eric Clapton CDs. Since it was so close to Halloween when I got there, after I got a job and everything, my mom picked me up from work on Halloween night, gave me her leather jacket to wear in the cold, picked up a bottle of cheap wine for each of us, and we spent six or seven hours walking around the town graveyard drinking and talking. It turned out that we had almost everything in common but the generation gap, and were on the same finishing-each-other's-sentences level that you and your daughter are on, Nightside. What happened with my mom was this: when I was little, every time she'd tried to come see me, my dad would threaten her with a restraining order. He also apparently hid alot of letters and cards she'd sent me over the years, and would refuse to tell her our new address when we moved to a different part of town. He would only let her see me on select birthdays and had to be on our heels every time she did. That sort of thing. When I finally got up the gall to quit my dad's plans and go live with my mom, I was ever so happy I did. We can't quite have a deep, soul-shaking relationship anymore, because we've both been screwed over by too many people and fucked up in too many ways to be able to open ourselves completely to anyone ever again, but we at least realize that and know that we're kindred spirits in a weathered world. And even though we're too guarded to be soulmates or something to that effect, I can still say (with pride) that my mom and I are incredibly close, even closer than either of us are with my sister Vanessa. My mom isn't really too booksmart like me, but her life and childhood really didn't allow for much of it. She has tons of common sense and street smarts to make up for it, though. And she's a hippie straight out of the earth, I swear. ^_^ She also recently ended a runaround relationship she'd had for at least 16 years with a guy named Mitch, and decided to try her hand at swinging the other way. I'm happy to say that she has a healthy, successful relationship with a really neat girl named Tasha, and they came to visit us a week or so ago to see the Depeche Mode concert in our area. Just thought I'd throw that in. lol..
I think that, with alot of people who don't really have their own jigsaw space in society, especially people with the mindset I seem to be seeing alot of around this site, this absent-parent/child story is awfully common... but that doesn't mean each situation is special. I've given up questioning the circumstances and results with my mom and I, and am content now just taking it as it is: a bunch of childhood mistakes that turned into something truly cherishable.
`rik |
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TYPO! by Fergshmuck (fury_alecto@yahoo.com) on Aug 09, 2001 - 04:14 PM (User info | Send a Message) | HOLY FUCK! I JUST SAW A DISGUSTING TYPO!
I meant to say that "That doesn't mean each situation ISN'T special." I'm sorry! To anyone I might have offended by that, I'm REALLY sorry! I'm not as bad as all that, really! :(
`rik |
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