|
|
Currently no members online:)
You are an anonymous user. You can register for free by clicking here |
We have 38 guests online !
|
|
|
|
|
Feature: Playing Games |
Posted by
Cashmere on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 06:19 AM PST
Sometime last year, the Discovery Channel aired a show on sexual predation. While they made a specific reference to pickup artists (they even followed one around to watch him work) they never really went in to how it was done, or how it can be prevented. They aired it a couple of days during sex week, and I never saw it again. Now there are entire books, tapes, and websites dedicated to helping men prey upon the insecurities of women they meet, but there is startlingly little that women know about what really goes on.
A big part of preventing this type of sexual hunting is realizing that it merely consists of a series of phases. Knowing that the psychological manipulation is a formula can help; by acknowledging a formula it is easier to separate from a person. It takes less energy and consideration to refuse an equation than someone you just met.
The opening contact is carefully contrived to appear innocent. This can include a greeting and then leaving so he is no longer labeled a “stranger.” Here he finds out if she will even be receptive to advances made later. If not, it appears like there was little or no thought placed into the gesture and he can try someone else without being noticed. The opening can be as simple as “Hi.” A standard greeting is not noticeable in and of itself, and it provides a familiarity that is socially acceptable and non threatening. Asking a question about the environment, like “Having fun?” both encourages conversation and forces the girl to volunteer information in an innocent sounding way.
Because he wants to be seen as a friendly guy, the man then initiates casual conversation. Starting dialog about the immediate environment, like if the girl is enjoying the music/whatever is around them allows him be interested in a non threatening way. During this he studies her movements, her speech patterns, even the senses to which she responds. He looks for unusual words she frequently uses and slips them into his own vocabulary. She then believes he has a similar thought process. By mimicking her language and movements he makes her more receptive on a subconscious level. Since the deception is passive, it goes undetected.
He will then lead her towards exposing her values. Public places with lots of extra stimulation make it more difficult to remember specific dialog, so he encourages her towards volunteering information about herself. He guides her to tell him exactly how she wants to feel. While other information may be helpful, his goal is to learn her desired states. He can safely introduce physical contact in this phase, generally on the hands and lower arms. The response to his touch can help determine if she will be receptive to sexual contact.
The pickup artist verbally mirrors her to make the two of them seem more similar. This can be as simple as mentioning a favorite band or expressing interest in an organization she likes. It can also be as subtle as talking about how things look, feel, or sound depending on the sense to which she responds most. He uses unusual phrases that he noticed her using during casual conversation. She may notice this normally, but the content of the conversation distracts her. By rearranging her words he makes her feel understood. She now feels that he is “her kind of person.”
Asking if she wants to sit down or find someplace quiet is a way the man can offer isolation. Once it has been established that they are kindred spirits this action seems natural, and does not arouse suspicion. He will find a place as isolated as she will allow: it is easier to cloud her judgment the more intimate she feels. This may be done more than once.
Once he has a girl successfully alone he reframes the situation. If she places value on safety, he might say “You are safe with me.” If she must know a person for a while before getting intimate, he might say “It feels like we have known each other forever.” Physical and/or verbal reassurances during this phase lull her into feeling secure. He does not suggest or even imply sex. Instead, with distinct considerations or other behavior, he acts as if they were already sexually intimate. By doing this he ensures that she will not become alarmed in later parts of his plan. He makes it so that a sexual situation with him would not be a bad idea, regardless of her normal behavior.
When she feels secure he can begin to raise arousal levels. He uses what he learned when exposing her values to bring her into a daydream-like state of emotional arousal. He may ask her to reminisce about something. Memories are interpreted as thoughts but deal more with emotions and experience. He may tell her a story that makes her visualize imagery she has linked to her desired states. He may even take a nonverbal approach by kissing, touching or even dancing. The point of raising her arousal is keeping her feeling instead of thinking. If she is feeling her excitement, she is not thinking about what is actually happening. To avoid alarm he focuses on more emotional arousal first. As her body temperature rises and he returns to this phase, the stimulation from him can become more and more sexual.
He anchors all her positive emotions to himself each time he raises her arousal. If she was happy, a remark or gesture will link him to that happiness. It expands beyond the world he fabricates to include the excitement of dancing, the apple she ate before leaving, anything that gives her satisfaction. He attaches himself to emotional arousal first: by doing this he avoids alarm. Attaching himself to positive emotions can be very subtle, especially in the beginning. During more sexual phases he can ask for a detailed description of an encounter she wants followed by an inviting phrase that invariably brings the thought of that encounter with him. She will desire him more and more each time he anchors her arousal. All he needs to do then is repeat the cycle and make sure she does not leave her daydreaming state.
Closing usually happens when girl’s arousal level is high enough or when the meeting place is shutting down. They can decide to stay together, in which case sex is assured. If that is not possible he asks for her contact information (he may request it during an earlier phase, but that is not always possible or to his best interests). He never gives his information without receiving the girl’s, since it leaves contact at his discretion. If he knows when he will see her again, he can do a “kiss close” since obtaining contact information is no longer necessary.
He always waits before getting in touch. The girl’s imagination will be perfecting him in the time following their contact. Since he is associated with positive emotions, every time she is happy she will think of him. By waiting he is making himself more ideal. When he does contact her he resumes verbal mirroring, making sure to address the things to which she responded favorably. He usually brings up something important that he learned while exposing her values. He does this to seem interested, and to reestablish the closeness she feels with him. At that point she may volunteer when she is next available, so that further contact is “her idea.”
In addition to the phases, certain behavioral patterns are used to make a target feel more comfortable. Not all of them are present at all times, and they themselves are not the underlying pattern. The pattern explicit in the phases gives each action meaning and direction, which is necessary in order for any of them to work. They may, however, be a good indicator that something else is going on.
Non threatening physical contact is very important. A pickup artist will begin touching as soon as possible, and increase the contact as soon and as often as possible. Touches on the hand, cradling it in both of his, gives a sense of intimacy while still allowing an escape.
Body Language sets a degree of familiarity, and is made to pass completely under the conscious mind. Leaning forward during a sitting conversation passes off as interest in the person, and the implications of that are not considered. It makes the physical contact less noticeable. Focussing on a small feature of the face enlarges the pupil, a base biological reaction to something pleasant. The subconscious picks up on this, and in turn makes the girl more comfortable. This gives the impression of gazing into both eyes, but also is a form of staring. If a person is gazing for a long time without blinking, then they are concentrating on looking.
Now after reading this, ask yourself how you feel about it. Can this happen to you? Regardless of your answer, you may already be a target.
|
|
| |
|
|
Average Rating : 4.8
Total ratings : 13
|
|
|
|
|
|
Playing Games | Login/Create an account | 28 Comments |
| Comments are owned by the poster. We aren't responsible for their content. |
Re: Playing Games
by pandoras_choice (-)
on Jan 25, 2004 - 06:42 AM
(User info | Send a Message)
http://none
|
That is positively horrifying! It certainly makes me think... You know what? I think I know at least one guy who does this... That's creepy. Thanks for the warning! I'll keep my eyes peeled and be a little more cautious from now on!
|
Re: Playing Games
by callei on Jan 25, 2004 - 08:16 AM
(User info | Send a Message)
http://http://
|
Another way to spot them is that they are not with a group of friends. They operate alone and seem to be "at home" where they are: friendly seeming with the bartenders, doormen, waistaff, attendants, etc. This adds to the unconcious "safe" feeling that they are trying to get across.
And can i just add that you can ask them questions. Dont wait for them to ask you. Ask things that are personal and off the wall if you think you are being conned. Ask about thier mom, their friends, thier grades, anything. And LISTEN to what they tell you. Is it too good to be true? Do they keep saying "enough about me lets talk about you?" do they hesitate alot?
The most important things to remember about these people (both men and women do this) is that they are usually very bad in bed, dont want to have safe sex, and like to have all kinds of drama. That is why they have to sneak to get laid. They are selling an inferior product and they know it.
|
[ No anonymous comments ]
Re: Playing Games
by Rogue (Rogue@skew.org)
on Jan 25, 2004 - 09:39 AM
(User info | Send a Message)
|
Interestingly enough, these techniques are not too dissimilar from those found in NLP or Anthony Robbins' techniques for "establishing rapport" in the seemingly innocent context of making friends. I was always struck funny by this because it seemed like putting forth a false image to get more people to like you, or rather the image of you, but I never considered the implications you have outlined here. Good work.
|
Re: Playing Games
by Anya on Jan 25, 2004 - 09:52 AM
(User info | Send a Message)
http://kirashi.envy.nu
|
Thanks for sharing this article. It was an enlightening read. There are many girls out there that could be susceptible (spelling?) to sexual predators that're unaware of what they could lead to. Some of them are just too obvious, but you spot out the ones that're difficult to point out.
Other things that I would suggest though is knowing the casual bit of self-defense...just in case the rejection doesn't turn out well. There are SOME men who will want control of the situation. Keys, pepper sprays, etc.
And as they always say, if the guy really likes you, he is willing to wait and even go protected.
|
Re: Playing Games
by Devin (devin-at-vibechild-dot-com)
on Jan 25, 2004 - 10:33 AM
(User info | Send a Message)
http://devin.vibechild.com/
|
Just because they are not alone doesn't mean they are not diong this. Sometimes they go out with a "wingman". Someone who knows what they're doing, and is doing it too, and who they can play off of well to get better results. This makes it easier for them to approach groups of girls, and offers "social proof" that the guy is liked by others. It's true that they don't go out with a group of friends, but if they are there with another person who is behaving similarly, you can spot that. Since it's much easier to spot these things when they're happening to other people - try watching what his friend is doing with your friends. If his friend is doing it, chances are good that he's doing it too.
They expect you to ask questions. They call them "shit tests". If they are doing it on purpose, they will NOT be caught off guard by this. I think the trick to questions is to ask them stuff that nobody has ever asked them, which they can't weasel their way out of. Then listen the way callei said.
And callei NAILED the bad in bed part. A lot of these techniques are used in other contexts by salesmen. If a salesman has something you want, you will come get it. He doesn't have to put any effort into tricking you into liking him. If these boys were good in bed, they would probably be there with a girl.
|
Re: Playing Games by callei on Jan 25, 2004 - 11:12 AM (User info | Send a Message) http://http:// | Yes they expect you to ask questions, but not thinks like:
"So what is your kill rate at this club?"
"SOoooo come here often?"
"I was hoping to get a chance to talk to you, your technique could use some work."
"Wait didnt you date my sister?"
"So what did you give up for lent?"
"Did you know your socks dont match?"
(if they are there with a friend) insist that the friend is thier boyfriend and promise not to tell. (works well on some of them, they run away) or
"Nailed that one yet?" and point to a random woman in the room.
get them off balance is what i am saying. |
[ No anonymous comments ]
Re: Playing Games by Devin (devin-at-vibechild-dot-com) on Jan 25, 2004 - 01:31 PM (User info | Send a Message) http://devin.vibechild.com/ | Oooh those are good! I'd love to watch you shut down boys sometime.
Here are some bad ones:
"Do you do this often?"
"How many women have you slept with?"
"Are you trying to seduce me?"
"Are you a player?"
These are questions they have probably gotten before. They will tell you nothing, and you won't catch them off balance.
My ex had a girlfriend who was brilliant at this. A guy was pulling this stuff on her in front of us once and I got to watch. He was amusing her and she was tolerating him, but when he tried to get her out of her thinking state with a little hypothetical story, and then anchor the feelings to him, here's what she said (prolly not verbatim, but close enuf):
"Oh that was a terrible way to do it - let me try... Imagine the club is closing and you're out in the parking lot with a girl you just met. She's so hot for you that she unzips your pants right there and is giving you the best blowjob ever. She's looking up at you and begging you with her eyes to shoot it down her throat. You're just about there, and you're thinking about how this is the best feeling in the world. Then you snap back to reality" (she smacked her hand on the table loudly at this point) "and you realize that this girl could have been me if you'd had more game."
She interrupted him and confused him by not telling him what exactly he did wrong - then she raises HIS arousal (she said it in a very sexy way, i was even getting bothered listening). Then she snaps him out of that state abruptly and anchors the loss of those good feelings to his lack of skills. Brilliant bit of psychology right there, you'd think she was a shrink, but she was a stripper. |
[ No anonymous comments ]
Re: Playing Games by feralucce (Iwouldliketokillyou@gofuckyourself.com) on Jan 25, 2004 - 02:32 PM (User info | Send a Message) http://feralucce.webhostingpal.com/ | think about this... as the sexual revolution plays its notes out and men and women become more alike in their views of sex... there are many women who play the same games... and have ... the difference is they are women, just looking interested...
I have watched as I was a bouncer as predators of the female variety passed along the floor doing the same thing...
Feral |
[ No anonymous comments ]
Swine Reproduction by Monolycus on Jan 26, 2004 - 05:44 AM (User info | Send a Message) | Thank you for bringing that up, Feral. I was really feeling the male-bashing building there and you bring up a valid. Frankly, I think anyone of any gender who is duplicitously pursuing their own agenda is creepy.
~M. |
[ No anonymous comments ]
[ No anonymous comments ]
Re: Playing Games by Meranda_Jade (Meranda@mymind.com) on Jan 25, 2004 - 03:33 PM (User info | Send a Message) |
" you'd think she was a shrink, but she was a stripper"
In the end, there's really not a lot of difference between the two. Both are paid to listen to people and make them feel good for a while. Both are therapeutic.
And nobody knows how to recognize and shoot down a player better than a stripper. |
[ No anonymous comments ]
Re: Playing Games by Devin (devin-at-vibechild-dot-com) on Jan 25, 2004 - 03:55 PM (User info | Send a Message) http://devin.vibechild.com/ | Yea there's not much difference really. That's why Carol Queen is my favorite stripper... um... i mean shrink...
And nobody is more fun to watch shoot down a player than a stripper :) |
[ No anonymous comments ]
Re: Playing Games
by feralucce (Iwouldliketokillyou@gofuckyourself.com)
on Jan 25, 2004 - 02:28 PM
(User info | Send a Message)
http://feralucce.webhostingpal.com/
|
well... honestly... there is a great way to avoid this... get to know someone first.... a true predator, like a shoplifter, will fly off at the first sign of customer service...
|
Re: Playing Games
by Psychopixi (psyche.at.psychopixi.dot.com)
on Jan 25, 2004 - 03:00 PM
(User info | Send a Message)
http://psychopixi.com
|
These guys are rather handy in some cases though, especially for getting drinks in, or for making other gals jealous. When you've got what you want, you can just leave - without giving your number.
I would feel guilty for using them, but in the end they deserve it.
|
Re: Playing Games by Devin (devin-at-vibechild-dot-com) on Jan 25, 2004 - 03:52 PM (User info | Send a Message) http://devin.vibechild.com/ | Actually, the ones that are good at it have rules against buying girls drinks. Buying a girl a drink is a pretty universal symbolic gesture that he wants to get in her pants. Conveying that to her pretty much destroys the chance of the nasty psychological tricks working. Lots of boys who are doing some of this stuff accidentally will buy girls drinks, but not the boys that are doing it on purpose. Are you sure you're thinking of the same guys? |
[ No anonymous comments ]
Re: Playing Games by Psychopixi (psyche.at.psychopixi.dot.com) on Jan 26, 2004 - 12:17 AM (User info | Send a Message) http://psychopixi.com | I've met a few guys who've done things like verbal mirroring, getting me / my friends to ourselves, and then showing how they match our values... reframing the situation. After they do that it's normally the case that they stand up, head to the bar and then pause, "oh, do you want something while I'm up?" etc... Maybe they're the ones who, like you said, are doing it accidentally. After all, if they know what they're meant to be doing, they wouldn't do something so obvious, I guess. |
[ No anonymous comments ]
Re: Playing Games by Shade (Shade@Gothcult.com) on Jan 26, 2004 - 07:51 AM (User info | Send a Message) http://www.hotelshade.com | Here are a few other things to be aware of, especially as the subject of offered drinks has come up. Players come in a number of different flavours. The ones Cash is talking about are smooth and well practiced. Having been targetted by a few of the gay ones in my youth I can say that it is often a pleasure to play along for a little while as long as you are a) not drinking, and b) not leading them on in such a way as to do horrible things to your own karma. They can be very flattereing for the ego and if actually skilled, they can boost your self esteem when you leave them ni the dust and hop up to say hello to that pretty thing you've had your eye on all night.
Now, there are a number of other predators on the dance floor (bar, whatever) and they need to be mentioned as well. For the moment I am going to focus on the one who drops a few smooth lines and then hops up for a beer and as an after thought turns and asks if you'd like something while he/she is up. These are potential sources of date rape drugs folks. they are usually very good at the first few opening lines as those lines are all they ever have to practise. They will say hello, get your confindence and then nonchalantly offer to get you a drink (beer, soda, whatever you'd like) while they are up -and out of eyesight-. Once you've taken a paralytic drug, there isn't a whole heck of a lot they need to do other than carry you out of the club and apologize to the bouncer for your behaviour on the way out.
Just two of my cents to add to the pot. |
[ No anonymous comments ]
[ No anonymous comments ]
[ No anonymous comments ]
Re: Playing Games by teddiliza (-) on Jan 27, 2004 - 08:04 AM (User info | Send a Message) | You know, it is interesting to see the use of psychology in such a manner. To me, I've always been suspicious of the guy who wants to ask too much too soon, and touching me when I've just met him just makes me think "posessive" or like he's "herding me". I can't stand touchy feely types. To me you touch someone to convey affection or concern, intimacy or love, and it shouldn't be a thoughtless act. After reading this article I can definitely say, "Thank God I'm married and don't have to worry about that sort of thing anymore". Now I just worry about my little sis. Trusting nature leads to gullibility and eventual harm. It's hard to teach someone to watch for traps when the traps are so well concealed.
I can see why parents get so overprotective of their innocent children.
|
[ No anonymous comments ]
[ No anonymous comments ]
Re: Playing Games
by Zander (zandriod@aagothic.net)
on Feb 01, 2004 - 06:35 PM
(User info | Send a Message)
http://www.angelsofdeception.com
|
from what I understand it seems as if a relationship with an nlp'r wouldn't last that long.
espeicially if your only tricked into lovong people.
but just because people are alike doesn't nessaccarily meen they'r manipulating each other.
still I wouldn't want to fall in love with some one who wasn't in love with me back.
|
Re: Playing Games
by Shmooth on Feb 15, 2004 - 01:33 AM
(User info | Send a Message)
|
Just because they're Neuro linguistically programming you, doesnt mean they are not real.
The truth is, if a guy is really smart , you wont know if he is manipulating you , and you can not test to see if he is. That's the truth.
Look at your choices.. Most guys are boring and predictable to the point of nausea.
If you are hoping for the right guy to come along..after seeing average guys all your life..And you meet somebody that stimulates your mind, you are more likely to just dream yourself away and let that person use you.
If you are a happy person, and you have faith in that there are great guys out there, then you are less likely to fall for a conn.
But what you should know is, that no one leaves a conversation unaffected. Everybody has a subconscious. Even the "predator".
Control freakism is sick.It's evil. It's dumb.
Manipulation is another thing.
Just because Im manipulating somebody, doesnt mean I wont fall in love with them.
If a guy isnt putting a signifigant amount of his own persona in to his seduction, then he is a conn..or just a very confused, very dumb guy.
If you are really intuitive, you wont have to worry about some one putting you in states you dont want to be.
If some one reads you a lovely storybook..that just blows your mind..you'll think about that storybook every time you hear that persons voice,subconsciously.
What you want, is a guy putting his persona in to his seduction. That is confidence.
Dont necessarily poison a great conversation by asking him stuff about his mum just because you are suspicious or paranoid.
If you see him taking you through stages..without strongly added persona..then confront him! "Why are you so on the track of emotions when talking to me?" If you dont LOVE the answer he gives you, walk away.
Everything should as spontaneous as possible.
Both women and men have stuff they want to ask the opposite sex, to see if they are of intrest. But aside from that.. You should FEEL that it's real.
Not wishful thinking.
Both men and women have compromises.. When women meet a guy that they have a more romantic intrest in..they hold back the sex.
Where as men (not the average male) might only sleep with you on short notice , if he doesnt think you're all that. Again,this isnt the average male.Most males will fuck you the first chance he gets.
I do not like insecure girls. I like desirable,confident,super intelligent girls (They hardly exist) .
Again, if you are insecure..and not super intelligent..and not very desirable, then you have reason to worry when something seems too good.
Only a chump would put hard focus on you, and read you a storybook on short notice. Do you ladies get me?
PERSONA, PERSONA,PERSONA. That's what you want. Again, don't make it a habit to ask strange questions..about his mum etc. He will think you've been screwed around a lot, and you've got emotional baggage. And you might miss out on some really great guys.
There's no such thing as fast love. It's not a perfect world. If it's love at first sight, or at first conversation..or even 7 weeks of going out randomly, then dont think for a second that you know it's love, until much later. I mean years later.
The reason most women would fear pickup artists (chumps with some knowledge) is because most women arent hard to get. And they know it.
And then they try to play hard to get when some one is of true intrest to them, which I think is pathetic. When a guy with high standards senses this, he will run like he's being chased by a dog with rabies.
If you want a great guy, set yourself up for a great guy.
I met a girl a while ago.. And because of my high standards, she lied about stuff.. Just because she had been walking around all her life thinking guys like me do not exist. So she set herself up for meeting more chumps. And now she doesnt have me. It's that simple.
Read the rest of this comment...
|
Re: Playing Games by anayansi (lyra_belaque@hotmail.com) on Feb 20, 2004 - 03:58 PM (User info | Send a Message) http:// | i feel bad for you, sugar. you've obviously lived in a really weird world, emotionally. and that has to suck. you remind me a lot of the guy with a tail out of shallow hal, actually...on the other hand, i probably come off like someone even worse, so whatever. |
[ No anonymous comments ]
Re: Playing Games
by peatski (adam@madeira.plus.com)
on Apr 18, 2004 - 12:46 PM
(User info | Send a Message)
|
This could be a predator or an over sly fox, unfortunately... deviousness is usually evil but not always...
|
|
|