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Articles: Homeless refuges or Workhouses? |
Posted by
darkglass on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 04:01 AM PST
A friend of mine in the States has recently had a run of really bad luck, and is forced by circumstances to seek help at a homeless shelter run by a strange religious sect who like to call themselves Christians. She is having to live there with her 4 yr old daughter and she is being forced to live by amazingly draconian rules.
For the first five days she was not allowed to leave the premises, she has to spend all day in a day room, at midday and evening she HAS to attend their church services even though she is a cathloic ( she even has to read from the 'good' book for chrissakes). This friend of mine is a deeply free soul who is being forced by these people into a life to which she does not belong and in which she has no interest.. she has been having to sneak a quick cigarette out of her bedroom window..she's 34 for Gods sake not 16!! 'Oliver Twist' is alive and kicking..These people LOVE to force their beliefs and guilt trips on others who are vunerable..I'm not even allowed to call her and try to send a little comfort to her..Christians? Call in the lions please
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Homeless refuges or Workhouses? | Login/Create an account | 14 Comments |
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Re: Homeless refuges or Workhouses?
by Xaoswolf (Xaoswolf@hotmail.com)
on Feb 18, 2002 - 06:12 AM
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ummm...
Your friend went to thier shelter, right, they didn't just grab her and throw her into the room. If she doesn't like it there, she can leave and go to another place.
So the want the people that go to the shelter to not smoke inside, those evil people, how could they. Hey I have a friend who lives in an apartment where he isn't allowed to smoke inside, maybe his landlords are part of the same evil cult. And they actually want someone to go to church, couldn't they just use thumb screws instead of that heinous torture.
And they are doing all of this under the disguise of a roof, bed, food, and the fact the she gets to keep her daughter instead of loosing, which could very well happen if those evil people made a few phone calls.
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Re: Homeless refuges or Workhouses? by Rogue (judenouveau@yahoo.com) on Feb 18, 2002 - 06:39 AM (User info | Send a Message) | But still it shows how few truly good intentions are present these days, especially from institutionalised oppression -er- i mean religion. Convert or go without, it's all about the numbers. It has been my experience that any benefit one may receive from a church organisation is not worth the sore, stretched anal sphincter and persistent flavour of seminal fluid that inevitably follows. Obviously this woman had no other choice, but whether they intended it or not their attempted forced conversion (auto-da-fe?) is a powerful incentive to stand up and become self-sufficient again. Imagine if the welfare system were run by such Torquemadas as these guys. The only thing that makes no sense is the no leaving for five days, which means that you cannot seek work for a week while being mentally sodomised by the cult of the dead Jew and thus delaying your eventual exit from the charitable purgatory. In what city/state is this happening, pray tell? |
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AAARGH!!!!!
by gothvail (vail@gothicamateur.com)
on Feb 18, 2002 - 09:22 AM
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Charity should be for charity's sake and no other reason, otherwise it is not true charity. Even Jesus said "If I have not Charity, I am nothing". Charity is another word for Love, from the Latin word "Caritas". Give for the love of humanity. If you can't love humanity with all its quirks and foibles, don't bother. Tell your friend I have a spare room and plenty of food, and she and her daughter can stay as long as they need to.
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Re: Homeless refuges or Workhouses?
by Cashmere (-)
on Feb 18, 2002 - 10:55 AM
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Did your friend ask for a motive behind these actions? It might seem more tolerable for her if she knew why directly from the people running the shelter. I do not agree with forcing people to attend church, but there could be practical reasons if they had to leave the shelter to do it. It could be when they clean the place.
However, actually making someone read anything on the basis of guilt or conversion is a bit fascist.
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Re: Homeless refuges or Workhouses?
by Monolycus on Feb 18, 2002 - 04:44 PM
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I'm not trying to be dense here... but telling us that they are "Christian" isn't actually saying much. You mentioned that your friend is forced to read from from the "good" book (You added that it was for Christ's sake... I would take that one as a given) despite the fact that she is Catholic. Is this "good" book different than the same Bible that Catholics use...? If your friend is Catholic, she is also a Christian. I still don't have enough clues to infer the identity of these "cultists" who have taken her in.
Apart from the "five day, no leaving" and no contact from the outside clause, everything seems to be on the up and up to me. If I took someone into my home, they would be expected to put the toilet seat down, squeeze the toothpaste from the bottom of the tube and generally abide by the rules of my home. Come to think of it, even if you crash in a Greyhound station they don't let you run amok or put up your own wallpaper (those Fascists!).
If these people are causing physical harm to this woman or her daughter then there might be something amiss, but to suggest that it is not charity to put a roof over someone's head and food in their bellies and expect them to follow the rules of being a guest seems awfully petulant and downright ungrateful.
I, too, have had "runs of bad luck" (I have been homeless before), and am sympathetic to unfortunate circumstances... but pissing and moaning because you can't walk into a monastery and disrupt the way they do things there isn't conducive to turning one's luck around. As a matter of fact, that's a pretty good way to find yourself homeless.
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Re: Homeless refuges or Workhouses? by Xaoswolf (Xaoswolf@hotmail.com) on Feb 18, 2002 - 05:10 PM (User info | Send a Message) http://Xaoswolf.tripod.com | I agree with you, and you'll note that it doesn't say that there was no contact, just no way for them to call her. I see that as them not putting a phone in each room, which is understandable since most of these places don't have a whole lot of money. |
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Catholic vs Protestant by gothvail (vail@gothicamateur.com) on Feb 19, 2002 - 03:10 AM (User info | Send a Message) http://www.gothicamateur.com | The Catholic Bible is indeed different from the Protestant one. It includes the Apocrypha, a further collection of books which the Protestant Church do not believe in or follow. Every branch of Christendom believes something slightly different, but Catholic and Protestant are by far the largest divide. Catholics practically worship the Virgin Mary along with the Trinity. The believe that the bread and wine actually become the body and blood of Christ during the miracle of the Eucharist. Just because she and the people at this place all fall under the wide umbrella of Christianity does not mean they are not trying to get her to renounce certain beliefs she holds true in favour of others. |
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Catholics worship what? by Arthegarn on Feb 19, 2002 - 03:39 PM (User info | Send a Message) | Catholics are idolaters? (I don't know if this exists, I mean "worship idols") Oh please please please! Wait here a second! Catholics do NOT worship Virgin Mary at all. It's not only that they don't worship her as a member of the Trinity (if we did it wouldn't be a trinity, would it?) it is that we do not worhip her at all. Virgin Mary is not God, and so she can not be worshipped. We Catholics believe in the Intercession of the Saint (dogma), meaning that you can ask the saints, who are with God, to intercede in your behalf, and so we can ask Mary to do that (personally I don't see why should we if we have direct line with the Big Boss, but many people find it hard to pray to God directly and I assume this helps them). We can pray to Virgin Mary, but only as an intercessor: she is not and never and ever worshipped.
As for the Apocrypha, I am afraid I also disagree. Remember it was the Trent council, in the time were there were no protestants and the Roman and Orthodox Catholic churches were still one, when it was decided what was "official" and what was not about the life of Jesus. It was Catholics who decided that, under the rule of a Roman pope, and what was left as unofficial were the apocrypha. So we don't have into our bible anything that we consider of dubtious procedence ourselves.
I would say they were referring to this or other translation. As a rule of thumb they all are translations of the Vulgata (the first official Catholic bible, in latin, and remember at that time Catholic really meant "universal" as there were almost no others), but I have seen twisted translations that make it say what it doesn't (most insidious is the part of Jesus's brothers, for instance)
I also don't agree that Catholics and Protestants have the greatest divission. I wouldn't call the Jehova Witnesses a Protestant church and I have almost nothing to do with them. And nothing at all with mormons. On the other hand, Anglican and Roman Catholic theologies are so close that a Roman Catholic can be properly confessed by an Anglican priest, and re-unification with anglicans will come quite shortly (after we get rid of the Priestess Problem, that is).
As for Transubstantiation, (the blood and wine thing) yeah, we believe that as part of the miracle, but only in substance and not in appareance (platonic stuff). But that's dogma, it's not in the bible, just based on it.
Ooops, I did it again.
Arthegarn |
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Re: Catholics worship what? by gothvail (vail@gothicamateur.com) on Feb 19, 2002 - 03:52 PM (User info | Send a Message) http://www.gothicamateur.com | I apologise. My knowledge of Catholicism is imperfect, and the language of my summary unclear. I did not mean to say that Catholics actually worship the Virgin. But they do venerate her, nearly as much as the Trinity. If I said anything offensive to Catholics, I apologise for that too. I did not mean to do so. I was just explaining that not all Christians are the same, and what some of the differences are as I perceive them. |
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No need at all by Arthegarn on Feb 20, 2002 - 12:42 AM (User info | Send a Message) | Not at all. I have heard much worse things around and I have not been offended, just once at the very beginning and we settled it.
As for Marianism, I agree, there is a lot between Catholics, if you ask me, too much. But once again that is the problem of spreading such a complex theology as the Catholic one is: many people don’t devote enough time (or any at all) to learning and studying, they claim to be Catholic and they don’t know what they say. Spain is one of the most Marian countries in the world, and I have found the following amongst self-proclaimed catholics who go to mass every sunday:
1) People who believe that Virgin Mary makes the miracles herself.
2) People who believe that praying to Mary is worshipping her, as if she were some sort of goddess
3) People who believe that if God is a god, and Hir son is a god, Hir mother should be too (this guy hadn’t understood a single word of cathecism, not even the title)
4) People who claim that this or that advocation of the Virgin (the Virgin of Loreto, the Virgin of the Perils, the Virgin of the Rocío, the virgin of Fatima) is “more miraculous” than the that other advocation.
5) People who believe that “their virgin” (meaning the advocation represented by the icon in their temple) is completely different than “next town’s virgin” (meaning another advocation”) (And much more miraculous, of course)
6) People who believe that it’s not only the advocation which is more miraculous, but the icon which is. (This comes so close to idolatry that Jesus would untie his belt again if he heard it)
If I had to be offended it would be at my co-cultists’ opinion.
Arthegarn
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Re: Homeless refuges or Workhouses?
by VladII (vladII@seznam.cz)
on Feb 19, 2002 - 11:58 PM
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the problem of sect is very difficult. i do not understand one thing - your friend seems happy there or not? i mean if she try to get out of the sect on her own or if she still does not recognize that this sect is not the good thing.
another thing , could you be so kind and mail me the name of these sect? and if you have any , i mean ANY information about them , please send them to.
i think that everyone has to have the change to choose the religion or church he/she likes , but he/she have to do it freely . this is what these sects trying to stop and get complete control of the person.
so , please , send me some more information.
my e-mail : vladII@seznam.cz
Vlad II
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A rose by any other name would still be a prick.
by Dolorosa on Feb 20, 2002 - 09:59 AM
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Ah! Evil isolationist christian yahoos!! They're all over the place...little caresh wannabees. Anywho, they may live by strict rules, but generally...if you allow somone to live under your roof, you also let it be known that they will follow your rules. If they restrain her from leaving (physically) in any way shape or form, it changes the entire picture...but until then, they're just being the odd people that they are. It takes a lot to offer your home up to strangers and all...and sometimes those who can give in that way, are a bit taken in the head. America is no longer the land of milk and honey...everything has a price, no matter how it seems. In another light though, with my own precious little cult...I don't think I could ever bring myself to do those sorts of things. It has always been, do what you will, when you will and how you will...as long as your friendly about it.
I still don't like christians on principle though...
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