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Articles: Strange religious stuff |
Posted by
chameleon on Sunday, August 19, 2001 - 04:50 AM PST
I met this person the other day who belonged to an interesting schism of christianity. He claimed that his church believed that if you fulfilled your divine destiny you went to heaven.
Being a young theologist, I asked him a few questions. One of them was:
"If what you believe is true, then Hitler would go to heaven if he was supposed to "kill" all those people."
(Note: Hitler really didn't kill all those people, he just ordered it. While I'm at it, I think Stalin had Hitler beat in the genocide department.")
Expecting a "God no!" from the redneck, I got instead a:
"Hmmmm. You know, you could be right."
I haven't talked to this person since (cuz I can't find him), and I really want to talk to his pastor. This is an interesting outlook on Heaven, don't you agree? Imagine meeting Hitler in heaven!
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Strange religious stuff | Login/Create an account | 17 Comments |
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Re: Strange religious stuff
by Castrator on Aug 19, 2001 - 05:34 AM
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The queastion is, though, was Hitler 'supposed' to kill all those people?
If so, then he has followed God's will and according to that person's church, Hitler is now in heaven.
And yes, Stalin did 'kill'(Order the killings of, anyway) much more people than Hitler did.
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Re: Strange religious stuff by callei (plyn@plynlymon.com) on Aug 19, 2001 - 12:20 PM (User info | Send a Message) http://www.plynlymon.com | Is it usual for you to restate the main points of someone else's comments? is it alos usual for you to act as though you are giving out golden stars for getting it right?
for the record:
Stalin 48 million, 8 mill all his own
Lenin gets 4 million
Mao 35 million
Hitler 12 million
Making a grand total of 100 million.
Hitler was a light weight if you look at pure numbers. what makes him stand out is the percentage of population that he killed. I belive that he tops the list if you use that criteria.
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Re: Strange religious stuff by Castrator on Aug 19, 2001 - 12:38 PM (User info | Send a Message) | Sorry, it seemed as if the point of Hitler killing all those people was definitely supposed to happen according to the post. I probably just misinterpreted the.
And as for my killing points, the original poster was unsure if Stalin did kill more or not. |
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Re: Strange religious stuff by chameleon on Aug 19, 2001 - 01:21 PM (User info | Send a Message) | misinterpreted the what? you left the sentence unfinished... |
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Re: Strange religious stuff by Castrator on Aug 19, 2001 - 02:37 PM (User info | Send a Message) | Blegh, sorry, change the "the" to an "it".
One of my (Many) flaws, writing stuff that makes sense in my mind, but once read through has no base in reality. |
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Re: Strange religious stuff by Castrator on Aug 20, 2001 - 06:04 AM (User info | Send a Message) | Depressingly enough, yes.
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Re: Strange religious stuff
by callei (plyn@plynlymon.com)
on Aug 20, 2001 - 07:45 AM
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I wonder, i mean what parts of thier faith did this person leave out? Did they mean that anyone who believed in god, lived by some of that god's rules, AND lived a good life? or did they mean that anyone that lived life to its fullest would go to heaven? those are the two options that first struck me; that he had made basic assusptions in what he was telling you (believe in the god and follow and least some of the rules, etc). The idea that his god rewards only those that strive really hard also intersested me. Think about it, only the most famous and psychotically driven will make it to heaven. there will be no sleeping in in that heaven, nor lazy sunday afternoons. And what would this hell be like?
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Re: Strange religious stuff by Devin (devin-at-vibechild-dot-com) on Aug 20, 2001 - 09:54 AM (User info | Send a Message) http://devin.vibechild.com/ | Sounds to me like it's more of a gamble than that. How can you know what your purpose in life is? You won't know till it's over and God says "Sorry, all that time you spent as a workoholic, you were supposed to be lying on the couch eating chips and watching MTV. Your purpose was to boost MTV's ratings - so it's off to hell with you." Reminds me of the speech given to the new arrivals in hell on south park. "Sorry, the correct answer was Mormons - Yes, it was the Mormons" |
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Re: Strange religious stuff by Meranda_Jade (scurtis510@home.com) on Aug 24, 2001 - 11:17 PM (User info | Send a Message) | or the Rowan Atkinson skit...
(satan in hell talking to the new arrivals)
"Christians, you must be feeling awfully confused right about now... I'm sorry, but the Jews were right" |
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Re: Strange religious stuff
by Maranda (saboneta@aol.com)
on Aug 20, 2001 - 09:43 AM
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That philosophy sounds more Thelemite than Christian. Thelemites believe that the discernment and fulfilment of one's True Will is the most important task of one's life. But they don't preach that you'll get to Heaven that way. That pastor sounds like he's been reading a lot of Crowley.
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Re: Strange religious stuff
by feralucce on Aug 21, 2001 - 10:30 AM
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http://www16.brinkster.com/gothicart
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Destiny: 1. N. A predetermined course of events considered as something beyond human power or control: “Marriage and hanging go by destiny” (Robert Burton).
2. n an event (or course of events) that will inevitably happen in the future
By his beliefs... everyone goes to heaven... and all this... ALL of this... is meaningles... There is no balance to serve... order, chaos, light dark, good, evil... all of it is a waste of time...
Seems... well... depressing...
Feral
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Re: Strange religious stuff
by bettie_x (strangersangel@hotmail.com)
on Aug 22, 2001 - 12:35 AM
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it all sounds like a confusing waste of time to me, but that' s just my humble opinion.
That's what I love about satanism....I can lay in the tub smoking lucky strikes and drinking a vodka tonic, reading nzeitche, and contemplating only the dilemma of this:
do I really want to shave my legs?
what is the nature of shaving one's legs?
boobies, that's what I say to the whole ordeal.
My destiny is to become that crazy old lady with the beast of a dog that lives at the end of a street throwing apples at neighborhood kids and popping footballs that come over my briars.
Besides, I dont wanna go to heaven...I look abominal in white, and I'm tonedeaf, so my harp would make a better slingshot than a catalyst for heavenly tunes.
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Re: Strange religious stuff
by bettie_x (strangersangel@hotmail.com)
on Aug 25, 2001 - 12:42 AM
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I actually heard something rather interesting and thought provoking from a co-worker's second hand story a friend of his told him.
His family was really deep into their native american heritage, and he was speaking with a shamen one day that was a family friend.
The shamen spoke of an old prophecy of "red skies"....that some day the skies would turn red....when the skies turn red you must go to the woods and stay there for one year until the skies were no longer red. Others, civilization, government, would try to drag you back. You would be hunted, persecuted, and dragged from your forrest protection....and you would die if they succeeded. If you live that first year without incident, you must remain in the forrest for ten full years, or returning to the normal world would mean your demise. After a full ten years after the red skies, you could return and find most of civilization gone. He said that was the only way to survive.
He also lived near a senator's house, and they would log/hunt/play in the fields near, and often speak to the senator. The senator spoke of the coming use of human barcodes. The boys said they would refuse the barcode, and the senator replied "you would have choice...you would be an outlaw, and you'll either have to accept the barcode, or spend your life in jail or dead"
We pondered this.....and came up with this thought, he being raised in a catholic/lutherine faith:
The mark of the Beast.
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Re: Strange religious stuff by callei (plyn@plynlymon.com) on Sep 13, 2001 - 12:34 PM (User info | Send a Message) http://www.plynlymon.com | there are two parts to that story of red skies.
in many native cultures, simple easy to remember words are used to teach core ideas to children, so this is the simplification of a larger more complaex idea; red is easy to remember, one and 10 are easy to remember, go to the woods is easy to remember.
the point of the story is to teach that when the skies( that which is over you, or US government) goes red (full of anger/danger/blood violence) go to the woods (the old ways/tradtions AND away from the new cultures and way) stay there for a year (this will keep you from the draft) if you succeed in this one year then remain in the woods (the old ways on a reservtion surrounded by the tribe) for 10 years (ample time to breed and get a new generation born and growing and taught the root ideas of the tribe)
This story is one that teaches in times of danger or trouble go to the tribe and stay there until you are ssafe, then give back to the tribe the saftey that you were given.
I heard many similar stories growing up, and as an adult living away from the tribe and trying to understand the world that i live in, i have tried to understand the stories (knowledge/coping skills/ social training) that i learned. |
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Re: Strange religious stuff
by Arthegarn on Aug 27, 2001 - 10:54 AM
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I think we are missing a point here.
As long as you believe in a God (or pantheon, or Force, or whatever) that created the Universe and expects something from you, then you HAVE to do that. For really religious people what defines good and evil is the concept of sin and commandment: good is what God said, evil is what God forbid. So, if you believed in a God who commands you to "fulfill your divine destiny" and it was to kill 6 million jews, then you did OK and you go to heaven. What you did was good, and having saved them would have been evil.
Now, what I don't see anywhere in that guy's religion is Christ. I mean, for any Christian it should be obvious that your "divine destiny" can't be to sin, so Hitler went straight to hell, you don't have to wonder. A religious system in which Hitler goes to heaven is imaginable (I guess that's what Hitler thought), but it has little to do with orthodox christianity.
As a personal comment, it should also be obvious to any Christian that there is no such thing as destiny, fate or whatever... but I might hurt someone's feelings si I'd better shut up.
Arthegarn
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