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Author: Subject: A Chicken and a Fetus

Extreme Fanatic





Posts: 648
Registered: 24/9/2002
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  posted on 3/7/2005 at 12:37 AM
How many vegans who don't eat eggs are pro choice when it comes to abortion?

Some say eggs are future chickens...so what are they aborting when they abort the fetus? A future baby right?

Strange things I think about late at night.

 

____________________
"People always say what we are looking for is a meaning for life…I don't think that's what we're looking for. I think what we're looking for is the experience of being alive." -Joseph Campbell

 
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Fanatic




Posts: 254
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 3/7/2005 at 11:49 AM
ehh, well that all depends on the individual. I have "new age", "bisexual" friends who preach non-conformity all the time yet smoke and shop at wal-mart for everything under the sun. They just don't think about all of their actions and all of their morals and beliefs as a whole to make up their own person. Other people consider the true reasons behind Roe v. Wade and its effect on women as reasons to support the decision, while they don't eat eggs because they feel all animal based food is creepy. It's a combination of thoughtless fucktard-ery and personal tastes and convictions for reasons why people go around such a problem as they do. The real good question is why are "pro-lifers" who actually 99% have strong religious beliefs aren't into animal rights more often? Don't they care about all of gods creatures? I'm sure they do, but they still make egg salad for the church picnic.

 

____________________
The OBOLISK is Divine.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 1570
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 4/7/2005 at 11:44 AM
I'll explain it for you darlin. The concept isn't just "eggs are future chickens". It's animal products in general. Most vegans (myself included) aren't concerned with whether or not eggs will make more chickens. We're concerned how using the hens to obtain the eggs is rather brutal and unfair to any sentient being, especially with factory farms becoming an almost universal supply of products on the market. The conditions of the hens who supply the eggs are horrible, but the eggs you get at the grocery store are sterile. They haven't come in contact with roosters, so there's no risk of getting a fertilized egg in your omelette. Hence the "future chickens" theory isn't arguable.

I won't speak for other vegans or vegetarians, but I'm pro choice. What I'm tired of hearing is that pro choice means pro abortion. Abortions for everyone!! Hooray!! What I'm FOR is the ability to make a choice when other options have failed, or when the choice to protect yourself from possible pregnancy is denied (rape, etc). I'm for personal responsibility to not let yourself GET into that situation to begin with, and the same personal responsibility when it's time for a decision to be made. If you don't want to get an abortion, don't want to give the child to adoption, and keep the child, it's your choice and your responsibility and I don't want to hear complaining (I live in Wa State, and believe me I hear more single mothers bitching about their lot in life I want to induce brain damage). I am not only pro choice, but pro mandatory birth control. Take a lesson from Bob Barker, have your child chemically or mentally spayed or neutered until they can prove they can be a fit parent. I know that as of right this moment and the years before, I would not be a "fit" parent. Hence I have no children yet and have taken steps to avoid putting myself in a situation where I would have to "choose". Birth control fails, this I know, which is why there is abortion, adoption, and parenting classes on the fly.

If a vegan produces the "future chickens" argument to you, please slap them for me, as they are idiots. The argument is treatment of our animal charges, and doing what we can to lessen suffering of those at our mercy who've done nothing to us. It's the USE of animals for products and the callous ways they are "collected" that is the problem.

Sticcipus, don't bother arguing with the righteous. All you do is feed thoughtless conviction, their fear (which makes them more zealous), and entertain them. Give them an inch and they'll run a mile a minute. I stopped depleting myself for them years ago.

[Edited on 7/4/2005 by bettie_x]

 

____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.

 

Fanatic




Posts: 499
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 4/7/2005 at 12:06 PM
I think you'll find that the chicken eggs people eat are in fact unfertilised and therefore are excessively unlikely to develope into chickens.

 

____________________
Light is changing to shadow, and casting a shroud over all we have known.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 1570
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 4/7/2005 at 09:30 PM
barring immaculate conception, tho I've yet to see that in the tabloids.

 

____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 1810
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 5/7/2005 at 09:15 AM
Yeah, but most vegans aren't eating fetuses either

 

____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.

Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist

 





Posts: 116
Registered: 14/4/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 5/7/2005 at 10:46 AM
I've gotten a bloody egg with a tiny chicken inside before from the grocery store. Roosters must be sneaking in somehow...

Either that, or it was a miracle!

 

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Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 5/7/2005 at 10:47 AM
Dammit, that was me.

 

____________________
Wind me up and make me crawl to you, tie me up until I call to you.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 1570
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 5/7/2005 at 09:46 PM
Feral, I could start. I had this discussion with someone at work. Cannibalism doesn't count!

And Kira, you just may have sunny side upped our savior.

 

____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.

 

Fanatic




Posts: 246
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 7/7/2005 at 03:24 PM
well now, some grocery stores have "organic" eggs or just eggs that have been purchased from a farm for the grocery store and that is sometimes just the end result. You don't catch it in time and you have a little chicken in your omlette,

 

____________________
When the world is over, will we wonder how it began?

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 1570
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/7/2005 at 11:18 PM
The main belief system behind vegetarianism/veganism is that if you don't have to use another living thing to live yourself, then don't, free range or not. The sad thing is linn, that most of the animal products in the grocery stores DON'T come from family farms anymore, they come from factory farms, and "free range" and "family farm" products, which used to be cheaper, now cost dearly in order for that family farm or free range farm to survive, and are seen as "specialty" items and is no longer the norm. I do know that safeway co., tho they still use more "factory" type farms, does independent suprise inspections of their animal product supply facilities to ensure "humane" living and termination conditions. Fertilized eggs can occasionally be found in grocery store eggs, but it's rare and unlikely.

 

____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 648
Registered: 24/9/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 9/7/2005 at 01:07 AM
A carton of Organic Free Range eggs runs at about 7 dollars at the grocery store here.

 

____________________
"People always say what we are looking for is a meaning for life…I don't
think that's what we're looking for. I think what we're looking for is the
experience of being alive." -Joseph Campbell

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 1570
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 9/7/2005 at 11:28 PM
well hon you're one an island, thers' not a lot of room for livestock. I bet you get mangoes sugar and coconuts cheapre. Lemme at em.

 

____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.

 

Fanatic




Posts: 246
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 10/7/2005 at 11:31 AM
it is true that now more and more of the organically grown fruits and vegitables/every food product is becoming more expensive because of the monopolization of factories. But yes, on the general note, not many people will ask... "hey, where did my hamburger come from?" People just aren't realizing the risks we take each day by consuming what large corporations produce.
My friend Fury has been looking into immunizations more and more as her daughter grows older and she is finding that some of the immunizations may cause more harm than help. On a general note, we may need and try to be more concious, however through money constraints or laziness, sometimes it is not always feasible to do what you know or believe is right.

 

____________________
When the world is over, will we wonder how it began?

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 1570
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 11/7/2005 at 08:26 PM
Well then again, there are also people who are vegan/vegetarian for health, and it's not a social thing at all (re: I'm NOT one of them, I'm terrible to myself, my food is just healthy by proxy), and could potentially be against abortion because it's bad for the baby's health (...going to hell...so many jokes) and there are studies to see if there is a link between abortion and uterine/cervical/breast cancer, as getting pregnant floods the system with hormones and whatnot, and aborting a fetus abruptly STOPS that flow of hormones and whatnot prematurely and can cause future problems from the abrupt chemical imbalance. Something to think on.

 

____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.

 

Member




Posts: 96
Registered: 29/7/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 12/7/2005 at 11:25 PM
There have been ongoing studies about that link for quite a while now, but to my knowledge (not that I'm an expert, but I read a bit on the subject), the link has yet to be proven. As far as I know, there's not even much of a corollary yet.
I did read somewhere that in some of the states that require counseling and waiting periods before abortions, some clinics have been forced to give pamphlets that say the abortion/cancer link has been proven. It sickens me that our government can put out false medical information to people.
I'm gonna stop now before I go off on a completely different tangent...

bettie_x, thanks for the explanation in your first post. I think I knew what you said, but had never really articulated it that way. My college roommate was a vegetarian, and for her, it was because she really liked animals and just didn't want to eat them. She never gave other people who ate meat problems about it, though--which was cool. I'm not a vegetarian, but I think I have vegetarian tendencies, which were amplified when I lived with one for four years. I dunno, sometimes I just get grossed out by meat.

 

____________________
"I've told you before, I don't comprehend religion, although conviction is a concept I'm beginning to get. In any case, a person with a real religious conviction is, I propose, a religious convict, and deserves locking up."

 





Posts: 116
Registered: 14/4/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 15/7/2005 at 04:58 AM
Always be careful with studies. Gay people have to deal with crap like that all the time. Every time there is a "study" that shows a link between this and that and being gay, we have to ask the questions "Who is doing this study?" and "Why are they doing it?" This keeps things in check in case someone finds a "Cause" and then try to find a "Cure". It actually doesn't work that way, because being gay isn't like having blue eyes- there isn't a gene, you "may" be born with it and it may grow with your developing personality over time. The best out look is that sexual orientation is as deep a part of your person as personality; you can't see where one part of it "began" nor are there any exact reasons for it forming (nature/nurture) and extracting it would kill the person, so that they would be like the late zombie incarnation of Terri Schiavo.
If you give a study like that too much merit, you KNOW a white republican man will be putting a new law up for vote called something like "The Women's Protection from Uterine/Cervical/Breast Cancer Act" to make abortion illegal buttered up in the guise of keeping America's women safe from 'no-no part' cancer and having to work, living a horrible life without bearing 3 kids and baking pies forever, terrorism, bullshit, etc.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 1570
Registered: 31/12/1969
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  posted on 15/7/2005 at 11:16 PM
True, and like I said it was something that I heard something on that wasn't proven but they were studying it, and I can see that the flux in hormones of that nature could possibly have an ill effect. And I also know that it would be another outlet for people of one bent or another to hide an agenda under a different title with different "concerns". However, if there is a risk it should be known and people made aware. Cigarettes cause cancer, it's posted on the pack, and it's still legal (probably because a religious organization hasnt' gotten a good hook on the "god hates smokers" bit yet), however perhaps they could add abortion to this retarded "sin" tax they apply to coffee, smokes, and gambling. I smell another revenue stream.

I also read a short story titled "foet" once.....about a market in the manufacturing of high class leather accessories that were made of tanned foetal skin sold out of back rooms in high pricey rich people shops. It was interesting.

Daria, you're welcome. Tho I have my moments, I'm not gonna shove it down anyone's throat. I don't even think I have any friends that are even vegetarian. And I also just got a second job waitressing in a steak house *LOL* ooooo the irony runs thick in these parts. I see it as part of my "infiltrate and destroy" agenda....they have no idea *MUAHAHAHAHA*

 

____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 1570
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 17/7/2005 at 12:06 AM
http://www.bancruelfarms.org/meatrix/

My husband found this link, it's disturbing in a cartoon kind of way while making light of the situation at hand. Enjoy your propaganda

 

____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 856
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 9/8/2005 at 05:24 AM
You know Betty...that line about Immaculate Conception really stuck out in my head...badly...

What if...what if the chickens had a Messiah...or whatever-the-fuck it's called.

That would be awesome, because it would mean therewould be an antipode...and that could just be fun.

 

____________________
In the valley of the Goats, the Goat Fucker is King

 
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