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Author: Subject: Bleh...

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 618
Registered: 27/9/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 29/11/2004 at 05:27 PM
Abbadon: I don't think it's so much that we are illiterate as Americans. I think it's basically that we don't really give that much of a shit about our grammar or our spelling these days. I blame it on our country's current leadership.

 

____________________
"When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I've never tried before." ~Mae West


 

Fanatic




Posts: 580
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 29/11/2004 at 06:43 PM
Starlight: Which leadership, precisely, are you blaming this on? I have vivid memories of American function illiteracy that go all the way back to Gerald Ford's administration in the early 1970's. You're absolutely right to declare Americans to be apathetic semiliterates, but if you're going to blame anyone, blame the media. Personally, I blame the apathetic semiliterates themselves.

I, myself, am only a generation away from peeling bananas with my feet but I made it a priority to become reasonably well read and to learn to write well enough to communicate clearly. If I can do it, if Koko the mountain gorilla can do it, if Joseph Conrad can do it, then it can be done by anyone who cares enough about their audience to make themselves understood. Failure to improve one's communication skills does not simply reflect upon the laziness of the dullard in question, it is also a vivid example of said dullard's sociopathic contempt for those who find themselves in the unfortunate position of having to wade through their anguished English.

Oh, and pale-face: see above. I'm not going to get drawn into the nationalism debate, but I detest self-righteous defensiveness of bad habits. If you want anything you say to be taken seriously in a context wider than this web site, then get off your high horse and mind your spelling and grammar.

~M.

 

____________________
"I believe that woman is planning to shoot me again."

 

Fanatic




Posts: 478
Registered: 22/9/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 29/11/2004 at 09:15 PM
Mono: understandably so. I try.

quote:
As I just said: Pesticides can be good for you. Try reading the whole post before replying. You dick.


how mature of you. calling me a dick. threats of me not reading your whole post because I told you to drink pesticides that could harm you. ever think the chance of you harming yourself wasn’t something I thought of? it was rather the intent of the post.


abbandon: it seems were having some what of a conflict here. I’d like to address it now before you try to insult me for having bad punctuation or missing a capital letter at the beginning of a sentence. I don’t quite see why we are arguing on such a juvenile level. making pity comments about each other over what began as a conflict of interests. be it my fault or other wise I would like to simply ask, what is your problem with me? what in the fuck did I do to you?

p.s. seeing as how you seem to be a spelling guru, how did seem to spell your name wrong?

 

____________________
fucking classy.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 618
Registered: 27/9/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 29/11/2004 at 09:55 PM
Mono: I was referring to the current leadership, but I can certainly see your point of how the decline of education is not something brought on by the current administration only.

This may be only stirring the pot a bit, but what the heck. Stirring can be fun.
Abbadon/Abaddon is a Hebrew word which can mean ruin or destruction; place of destruction; angel of destruction; destroyer.

 

____________________
"When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I've never
tried before." ~Mae West




 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 648
Registered: 24/9/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 30/11/2004 at 09:21 AM
Well, it would seem to me that many people on this site have spelling or typing problems and don't care to proofread their text before submitting. This is why there are "preview post" buttons as well as "post reply" buttons. To misspell a word every now and then is okay, but to flagrantly misspell the same word twenty times in an article or forum is wrong. There is www.dictionary.com available to us if we are unsure of the spelling of a word, and there are pocket dictionaries and thesauri at your local book store available for purchase every day. Also, we all make typing errors and this too is okay, but if it is repeated I will not take it as a typing error but as a misspelled word. Sometimes our brains think more quickly than our hands will type so we leave out little words that are needed like "of". This too is okay, and does not need to be corrected by anyone menacingly. Let’s all be kind and realize we are all human and that all humans make errors. Another tip is to paste whatever you type in a box on here into Microsoft Word and spell and grammar check the text.

 

____________________
"People always say what we are looking for is a meaning for life…I don't think that's what we're looking for. I think what we're looking for is the experience of being alive." -Joseph Campbell

 

Fanatic




Posts: 478
Registered: 22/9/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 30/11/2004 at 01:21 PM
I have spell checks on my posts. i don’t just randomly post miss spelt words intentionally.

and for my little bit of information.

According to a research at Cambridge University, it doesn’t matter in what order the letters in a word are, the only important thing is that the first and last letter be in the right place. The rest can be a total mess and you can still read it without problem. This is because the human mind does not read every letter by itself, but the word as a whole.

 

____________________
fucking classy.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 648
Registered: 24/9/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 30/11/2004 at 10:23 PM
I understand, and that is why we are able to read the writings of dyslexics so easily. This does not however give you the power to justify your misspellings and your lack of trying to spell and learn "because Cambridge says so". Stop trying to make it okay and say you have a spelling problem and work on it. Try to learn something instead of simply trying to squeeze by in life. I am telling you this so some day in the future you might be able to better yourself for the good of yourself and mankind. You may find you don't want to be near the bottom rung anymore and you want to reach the top. You won’t always have a spell checking device with you.

 

____________________
"People always say what we are looking for is a meaning for life…I don't
think that's what we're looking for. I think what we're looking for is the
experience of being alive." -Joseph Campbell

 

Fanatic




Posts: 355
Registered: 5/8/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/12/2004 at 02:14 AM
There won't always be a spellchecker nearby? Are you seriously suggesting that someone may use paper again? Are you insane? Anything important enough to make a difference in your life will be done with a spellchecker nearby, either because it is done on a computer with a spellchecker, with the internet, or by someone with a fucking mobile phone which, due to predictive text, is a reasonably useful spellchecker.
Bad spelling doesnt hold you back anyway. I have proof.
Most powerful nation in the world? America.
What is the americanised way of spelling sulphur? How about colour? Should we spell a period of time lasting sixty minutes as an hor? Do me a favor [sic] and never underestimate the ability of people not to care that something has one too few 'l's or the 'i' isnt before the 'e' and that goes for people who should, like teachers.

Mono: I agree, except for the sociopathic bit. I think you give too much credit to people there, suggesting that it may be an even slight bent towards a psychological condition is to absolve some of the blame. I feel that there is not enough intent, or even awareness for said dullard to realise that there may be difficulty interpreting their spelling.
Unfeasably convoluted sentences with far too many subclauses and overly complex syntax however..............(YerHonner, i plead not guilty).

[Edited on 1/12/2004 by W0rmW00d]

 

____________________
Eritis sicut Deus scientes bonum et malum.

And the third angel sounded, and a troll army did descend upon the world.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 1810
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/12/2004 at 02:37 AM
ok... yes, america has the highest incidence of illiterace, and yes, our fucking educational system sucks... but you are making a blanket statement that implies that all the stupid people are in america...

there are just as many stupid fuckers in every other country as there are america... just look in the news... Fuck... germans and david hasselhof is proof to me ofan antire country of dumbfucks...

you, honestly, cannot know what a place is like and what its people are like until you live there... I gather from your posts that you are not american... so untill you've seen our stupidity first hand, i recommend you stop bashing it... I, personally, am tired of hearing "america is ______________"... get a new song... rhetoric is meaningless

 

____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.

Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 897
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/12/2004 at 03:39 AM
When it comes right down to it, people are _______. Americans are just highly visible, and thus an easy target. There are idiots and fucktards everywhere. As well as intelligent, educated people. You can't make a blanket statement to cover an entire nation. The only accurate statement one can make about Americans is that they are Americans, i.e., living in the country called the United States of America. Beyond that, it's entirely up to the individual.

Anyone who has a mind to learn will learn, regardless of the poor quality of their educational system. And anyone who has a mind to remain ignorant will remain ignorant, again regardless of the excellent quality of their educational system. As for the average who just go with the flow, well, last I checked, things generally flow downwards, no matter where you live.

Perhaps America does tend to be the land of the dumb and the home of the ignorant, but that only makes the few who take the time to educate themselves all the more outstanding. An American has to fight harder to get to that level than someone whose nation crams learning and understanding efficiently down their gullet. When we learn, we have ourselves to credit. It must suck to have to share the credit with an educational system that was set up for you.

Anyway, Wormwood, hour keeps its "u" because it is pronounced OWER. Color/colour is not pronounced COLOWER, nor is favor/favour pronounced FAVOWER. I was not around when the American spelling of these words was officially changed to drop the "u", nor would I have supported it. I personally like the quirky, illogical spellings that run so rampant in the English language. I think it's one of its main beauties (as well as one of its main frustrations, as anyone learning it as a second language will tell you.) But, since I am living in America, I spell things the American way. It would be as silly for me to ape the original British English spellings as it would be for me to ape a British accent. Even though there is much to be ashamed of in the title of American, that is what I am, by the grace of my wandering forefathers, and I would rather be that than an American pretending I were British.

 

____________________
"You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest of girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 648
Registered: 24/9/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/12/2004 at 09:12 AM
Schizo and Feral: You two totally rocked with those comments. Not that you don't generally, but that was wonderful.

 

____________________
"People always say what we are looking for is a meaning for life…I don't />
think that's what we're looking for. I think what we're looking for is
the

experience of being alive." -Joseph Campbell

 

Fanatic




Posts: 580
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/12/2004 at 06:38 PM
pale-face: When praising the benefits of a spellcheck program, you illustrated its inherent weakness (I'm not sure if you did that as a joke or not). "Miss" and "spelt" are both perfectly acceptable English words, but together they are only homonyms with, and not replacements for, the English word "misspelled" (or, if you are feeling archaic, "misspelt"). It's up to the human behind the spellcheck program to spot the difference.

W0rmW00d: I was not trying to contribute to the cult of victims out there. What I meant when I described the situation as sociopathic was that people who refuse to correct their bad habits do not see the value in doing so because they do not recognise that other people have independent existence. Others are like televisions or computers and are here exclusively for their benefit. "Shouldn't others have to be the ones to change to accomodate me?" I can not recall if the inability to recognise the independent existence of others is symptomatic of sociopathy or psychopathy. In any event, anyone who thinks so poorly of me or so highly of themselves that they feel they are above any form of self-improvement is not someone with whom I am going to waste my time. Even if they are a "victim".

feral: Countering groundless American bashing with groundless German bashing? I expected better from you. I happen to think very, very highly of the way Germany does its business and I think that David Hasselhoff seems to be doing very well for himself regardless of your opinion of him.

Schiz: I did not mean to suggest that "anyone who has a mind to learn will learn, regardless of the poor quality of their educational system" when I said that Koko the mountain gorilla is able to type comprehensibly. Koko was also taught. There is an anti-intellectualism at work in the States these days (and not in the other countries I have been to... so yes, I meant that to be directed) which is distrustful of the formally educated. While I do not agree that a formal credential is necessarily any indication of anything except one's ability to pay for it (by hook or by crook in most cases), I think that this suspicion of educational institutions is harmful. In almost every totalitarian regime in human history, the first ones who are targeted to be eliminated are the formally educated. When anti-intellectualism becomes internalised by the people (I have heard people proudly and fallaciously promote the myth that Albert Einstein only had a sixth grade formal education), then a repressive government has done its job.

~M.

 

____________________
"I believe that woman is planning to shoot me again."

 

Fanatic




Posts: 355
Registered: 5/8/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 1/12/2004 at 11:14 PM
I did not say that America as a nation is stupid. I said that there was collective bad spelling and that it had not held the US back from becoming the most powerful nation in the world as a counter argument to MRD saying that bad spelling would hold pale-face (or anyone) back.
I did go on to imply that all bad spellers were stupid, but it was not really the intention to make the logical extention thar americans were all stupid. I should have been more clear, because it cannot possibly be said that a person who has been taught to spell in a certain way is stupid for spelling in that way, e.g. Sulfur. I really meant that someone who consistently gets the spelling of many words wrong is stupid, for not realising if/when they see the word correctly written elsewhere and, if they don't see it written elsewhere, for not reading enough.
So apologies for that, although much of the evidence I have ever seen has indicated huge levels of idiocy in America riding alongside the brilliant minds, as you yourselves admit. I try not to make uninformed blanket statements when I am making an actual point rather than amusing myself with sarcasm and rhetoric, which, Feral, I feel is far from meaningless and whithout which we would have no great writing or speaking.
Schizo, hour as an example was not really meant to be serious, but I suppose I made it seem so by including it with my serious examples.

Mono: Pretty sure its sociopathy which cannot recognise the existence of other sentiences. Again I partially agree with your point, 'anyone who thinks so poorly of me or so highly of themselves that they feel they are above any form of self-improvement is not someone with whom I am going to waste my time' but I still would argue that on the whole people do not realise that there is improvement to be made, and may well make that improvement if their mistakes were just pointed out to them instead of left to fester.

 

____________________
Eritis sicut Deus scientes bonum et malum.



And the third angel sounded, and a troll army did descend upon the world.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 897
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 2/12/2004 at 03:28 AM
Actually, Mono, I did not have Koko the Gorilla in mind when I made that statement.

And it is true that those who want to learn will find a way, even without formal education, while those who do not want to learn, won't, even if they attend the finest universities.

Look at all the idiots who go to first class colleges and party their opportunities away.

However, one with the mind to learn will certainly find their path to learning much easier if they have the opportunity to attend a fine institution of learning. Some people don't have that opportunity, however, and if they can acheive education on their own, then they are to be highly commended. It takes a lot of drive and hard work to search out one's mental food, rather than have it placed before them, nicely prepared, on a daily basis. And those who learn to teach themselves have an advantage or two over others - they don't spend the rest of their lives trying to pay off their college debt, and they have learned something more valuable than just a collection of facts - they have learned to teach themselves.

All this having been said, I long for the opportunity to pursue higher education. I just plain don't have the time for it. But someday - even if I have to wait until my daughter graduates from high school (I hope not!). Even the time and energy to just sit down with a book and learn by myself would be nice.

And Wormwood - I, too, was not trying to engage in a hugely serious debate over the American spelling issue, at least as in regard to the difference between hour/hor and colour/color. But I am very serious about my deep seated hatred for the spell-as-it-sounds tendency in this country. I abhor lite and brite and nite and luv and all their ilk. Perhaps, if their spelling is ever officially changed in this country, I shall rebel and always spell them the old way. However, I grew up with color and flavor. I suppose I could make an issue over them, but why? If we really wanted to get all original in our English, we could revert to the times when there were no official spellings of anything. I could spell colour as culor or collor or just about anything else, as long as you could remotely guess at the meaning. That's probably where the original "u" came from, anyway. Unfortunately, if I did that, I would just get accused of poor spelling, which would be a shame, since spelling has always been a strong point of mine.

 

____________________
"You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the
dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest of
girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 1810
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 2/12/2004 at 07:09 AM
WormWood: I call bullshit... you, in as many words, prettymuch did say that... and if itwasnot your intent, choose your words more carefully beecause all over the forums that is the impression you have given... and by the fact that more than one person jumped you for it, it is not my tendency to see the worst in everyone that made that impression... My point it you have made statements over and again that seem inherently anti-american without any proof. Your statements have been consistent with the baseless continental rhetoric that has been all over Europe for years. You may not have seen it, but it has been seen by many here... and this, personally, where I have drawn the line...

number two... my spelling, as a general rule is abhorent. There are reasons for it... none of these reasons is that I am stupid. It is possible for an individual to be a genius and not be able to spell at all. As for education, the system here sucks, and I ahve commented on why (the american education association stated "our goal is not to educate america's yougth, but to change them, remake them in our own image.") But education does not make intelligence... I cite Einstein as an example... dislexic, unable to spell well, 6th grade education, and a fucking genius... i know for a fact that I am not stupid, and yet I cannot spell either...

Mono: you wound me... though I guess the fault is not mine for not labelling the joke as such... "Fuck... germans and david hasselhof is proof to me ofan antire country of dumbfucks..." - that statement was intended as a citation with humor and irony... mea culpa for lack of exposition to reveal the sarcstic nature of the comment...

 

____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.



Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist

 

Fanatic




Posts: 499
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 2/12/2004 at 02:08 PM
Mwahahaha. Look what I have created!

 

____________________
Light is changing to shadow, and casting a shroud over all we have known.

 

Fanatic




Posts: 580
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 2/12/2004 at 02:44 PM
feral: Sorry I missed the irony in the Germany statements. My bad. Now, I just have to say...

ALBERT EINSTEIN WAS AWARDED A PhD BY THE POLYTECHNIC UNIVERSITY IN ZURICH, SWITZERLAND BEFORE EXPOUNDING UPON THE SPECIAL AND GENERAL THEORIES OF RELATIVITY IN 1905! The only people who continue to promote this blatant lie about Einstein only having a sixth grade education are people with a chip on their shoulders about Universities. It is insulting to people who do have degrees and only promotes an anti-intellectual atmosphere... and we have the Bush administration for that already, thank you.

To my knowledge, nobody has questioned your intelligence and I am not sure why you are defending it. I will mention, though, that I have noticed a direct correlation between how profoundly stupid a person is and how persistently they crow about how smart they are. You've got nothing to prove here.

Abbadon: Isn't it exhausting to be that snide all the time?

~M.

 

____________________
"I believe that woman is planning to shoot me again."

 

Fanatic




Posts: 499
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 2/12/2004 at 02:50 PM
I get by.

 

____________________
Light is changing to shadow, and casting a shroud over all we have known.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 1810
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 2/12/2004 at 04:30 PM
Mono: sorry... was not aware of that... I have a reference that will be getting tossed after I ream the publishers... may I get a citation on that so I can back it up? and I am making a point with the whole intelligence thing... WW as put forth the opinion that bad spelling and grammar are inherent signs of stupidity... I am shoing an exception.. and when using the scientific method an exception keeps things in the realm of theory...

 

____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.





Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist

 

Fanatic




Posts: 580
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 2/12/2004 at 08:57 PM
feral: I generally balk at using web sites in a bibliography (firstly, because they are not peer-reviewed and therefore, anyone can find anything to suit their purposes... and secondly because you can run a google search on a biography as easily as I can), but since I feel I may have been a bit on the harsh side lately... I'll throw you a bone here. Try http://www.phy.hr/~dpaar/fizicari/xeinstei.html

Make sure you actually read it all the way through and don't simply stop at the point where he left elementary (which might be where this stupid myth comes from originally). He was awarded his PhD in 1905 from Polytechnic University in Zurich and qualified for the position of lecturer at the University of Bern in 1908.

But even without reading a biography, common sense should dictate that the story of a 6th grade educated Einstein is a myth. To begin with, most people know that he is very frequently introduced in works as DOCTOR Albert Einstein (not an honorary title, I assure you) and most people know that he spent many years after emigrating to the USA as professor emeritus at the Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton... a post which would require him to hold a Phd.

If you have found a publisher who is perpetuating this insulting story, give 'em hell for me.

~M.

 

____________________
"I believe that woman is planning to shoot me again."

 
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