Subject: Sex workers, prostitution, and the other little things in the same boat.
Shade
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Posts: 289 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 22/4/2004 at 10:06 AM
"Blue hair special on aisle five folks, come down to (fuc)K-Mart where the
girls are always clean and the sex is always affordable!" They may not have
the most skilled girls, or maybe the girls are a little too old for the
glamour houses, bu the reality is that with any kind of legal enterprise,
even more people will come out of the wood work to sell the cheap as feck
version. Just think, Martha Stewart could be their spokesbitch, "You all
hate me and wouldn't actually want to fuck me unless I was paying you, but
when you get desperate, you'll come to (fuc)K-Mart, oh yes you will,
because we own twelve percent of your soul!"
Just about everything that can be done is currently being done legally and
illegally, but when you get right down to it, the ones who are doing it
legally will have greater recourse to the law if they get ripped off. They
will be tax payers so the law will have an obligation to protect them. With
the legalization of prostitution, the hidden nature would still be there,
but the illegality would be gone which would make the prostitutes citizens
and as such it would be less tempting to psychos who are out looking to
kill someone who (to the system) doesn't exist. Also, the houses would be
better organized, the cost of VD testing could be spread out over a greater
number of sex workers and the test supplies could be purchased in bulk so
the risk of disease spreading through hired sex would be lessened.
As far as infidelity goes, I agree with most on here who have said that
it's going to happen or it's not. In this case it may be that more husbands
who would normally go out for a bit on the side may end up finding out just
how understanding there wives are when they receive a three free hours at
the local cat house gift cert from the wife who doesn't care where he
sticks his dick just so long as his heart stays with her.
To poke the infidelity thing a bit more, as a personal deifinition, I
count infidelity or cheating (I ike to lump them together for the sake of
ease) as sharing something that you have promised to only share with
certain people. If you promise to fuck but not love then you are stupid,
but if you promise to fuck but not sleep with and you sleep with the bit on
the side then it's cheating, if you promise to not sleep with and you do,
that's cheating, if you promise to stop if you find an emotional
attachement forming and you do not stop, then that is cheating.
As far as would I go hire a prostitue? Yeah probably, for the same reason I
would run out and buy a pack of pot cigarettes if they ever become legal,
it would be neat and I would like to support the legalization efforts. Now
taking into consideration the fact that I have on occassion found myself in
a hotel, just hours from Carson City (The place to go for legal
prostitution in the US) and not gone and gotten myself laid probably speaks
to the fact that I wouldn't neccessarily run out and hire the nearest girl.
That and more importantly the fact that I certainly wouldn't be hiring one
out of any need.
I fully support any man or woman's ability to control their bodies whether
through permanent tattoos, body piercing, elective sterilization, abortion,
prostitution, fast food, or any number of other things a person can do with
the flesh sacks we motivate while living here on this planet. If someone
wants to sell their ability to make my body go POP, more power to them,
it's not only the hardest profession, but to do it well, it may be the
ahrdest profession. And to any and all who have managed to do their thing
despite it being illegal, you have my deepest respect.
(And a little jealousy, I wanted to grow up to be a gigolo when I was a
teenager)
____________________ It is only through the lack of sex that humanity derives the need for an
all encompassing blind love. And in that moment of extreme horniness with
no relief in sight, in that moment can be found the birth of religion.
-Me
Zero
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Posts: 459 Registered: 15/2/2004 Status: Offline
posted on 22/4/2004 at 01:00 PM
ya know i've always wondered about male prostitution...i mean there doesn't
seem to be a lot of women willing to pay for sex..at least from the male
prostitutes...and there are so few too...besides men seem to be the main
customers of the industry and not alot of them are buying from the men
either....i sense sexual descrimination lawsuits getting filed if this ever
becomes a reality.
(my cousin says the more money a man has the freakier he is in bed.)
____________________ "It is a fool's prerogative to utter truths that no one else will speak." ~
The Sandman, Dream Country
Shade
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Posts: 289 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 22/4/2004 at 01:13 PM
I can see the lawsuits happening if the bordello opens as an equal
opportunity employer and then refuses to hire any men, but chances are the
men would be hired as bouncers and the like and there would be bordellos
that catered to the crowds that want men. In a more general sense, who
would a man sue if he wasn't getting hired to have sex with people? It's
not like they could sue womankind in general.
____________________ It is only through the lack of sex that humanity derives the need for an
all encompassing blind love. And in that moment of extreme horniness
with
no relief in sight, in that moment can be found the birth of
religion.
/>
-Me
Zero
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Posts: 459 Registered: 15/2/2004 Status: Offline
posted on 22/4/2004 at 01:20 PM
i think you underestimate the power of attorney.....lol
we've all heard of strange cases in the courts like the poeple who sue the
fast food companies for making them fat (that reminds me burger king owes
me money
)
so i can actually see someone sueing all of woman kind...and i would too
if i weren't able to find work as a hooker because of my gender
[Edited on 22/4/2004 by Zero]
____________________ "It is a fool's prerogative to utter truths that no one else will speak."
~
The Sandman, Dream Country
Anya
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 22/4/2004 at 02:55 PM
Though it's a disturbing fact, I suppose it can be looked at as positive on
the scale: in California, you can sue for anything. It's Sue Capitol.
That's why there's so many lawyers here.
Hells, the lady who wrecked my bike was afraid that I'd sue her (I think I
should but I almost understand why she backed out of our deal)...but I was
above that.
Ah...I could see it when prostitution is legalised (epecially in
California)...a woman will get laid, then blame her sterililty on the
juggalo's "roughness."
Zero
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Posts: 459 Registered: 15/2/2004 Status: Offline
posted on 22/4/2004 at 06:00 PM
hmm...could you imagine...it's one of those lonely nights and you need a
BJ.... your partner on the other hand..isn't in the mood...so he/she hands
you a coupon for the drive thru at "hooker king"...."may i take your order"
the drive thru worker says....you say "umm yeah, i would like my 'salad
tossed" .......the reply: "would you like anal with that?"
[Edited on 23/4/2004 by Zero]
____________________ "It is a fool's prerogative to utter truths that no one else will
speak."
~
The Sandman, Dream Country
Meranda_Jade
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Posts: 511 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 22/4/2004 at 07:10 PM
Zero, you always twist things in the right way. This is why I like you.
btw, if male prostitution were legal, you can bet I'd be a supporter of
that. Imagine, girls... they're always good in bed, a guaranteed orgasm,
and with no pesky issues to worry about. It beats the hell out of trying to
figure out who looks like the most housebroken guy at the bar...
____________________
Starlight
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 618 Registered: 27/9/2002 Status: Offline
posted on 22/4/2004 at 07:51 PM
Oh boy, now I've got a whole slew of questions popping into my head
regarding what would qualify as an "on the job" injury if prostitution is
legalized. Will a man get to claim permanent disability and collect social
security if, for instance, he can no longer get an erection? Will groin
pulls give you some paid time off? Will a birth control failure result in
the employer being financially responsible for the child's upbringing? Will
P.M.S. be a reason to call off from work?
____________________ "When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I've never
tried before." ~Mae West
Dolorosa
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 856 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 22/4/2004 at 09:32 PM
You know, most of the prostitutes I've known have been profoundly unhappy
people...there was something just plain missing in thei smiles, I've known
a couple girls, and they just seemd...fucking sad. I for one think i should
be legal...mebbe those girl's lives would be made just that much
easier...or boys for that matter.
Prostitution may be hailed as the oldest job in history, but it's also one
of the most damaging, I'm not being all hoity-toity about this
either...find me a happy hooker, seriously.
I'm pretty much with Feral on victimless crimes shouldn't even be
crimes...
____________________ In the valley of the Goats, the Goat Fucker is King
Dude, did you ever watch the documentary on the bunny ranch? THOSE are
some happy hookers. They even have the "hooker of the year awards" within
the ranch, where the girl who had the most customer compliments and
requests got a 10,000 bonus check and a trip to hawaii. Most of those
girls LEFT "regular" careers for the bunny ranch because of the money, and
because they love sex. I'm assuming most of the girls you've met are
unhappy AND hookers because they were unhappy before, and because being an
ILLEGAL hooker sucks. The bunny ranch has panic buttons in every girl's
own private room, they get paid WELL, they're constantly tested for STD's,
no sex without protection, drug tests for them and no "impaired" guests,
they have health insurance, and are treated like PEOPLE. Illegal hookers
have it shitty.
Also in Nevada prostitution is illegal within city limits, and it's illegal
to prostitute outside of an establishment ie: no streetwalking. It keeps
it out of the main drag where the tourists are, and it keeps girls off the
street.
____________________ Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
Dolorosa
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 856 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 23/4/2004 at 10:38 PM
Alright, thats a pretty decent counter, but I've never been there, and I
seriously hesitate to believe something I've only seen about on TV,
So I'll have to reiterate my statement a lil' better...I, in my personal
experiance, have never met a happy prostitute, of any type. But hey...I
could be wrong, and prolly am.
____________________ In the valley of the Goats, the Goat Fucker is King
callei
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 24/4/2004 at 06:32 AM
how many happy woman have you met?
____________________ Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away.
Anya
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 656 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 24/4/2004 at 07:38 AM
quote:Oh, and zero I wasn't
yelling at you. I just don't believe in protecting people from themselves,
it frees up their responsibility to the situations they creat for
themselves. It's like people who want to sue fast food joints for making
them fat, or people who smoke who blame the cigarette industry for
emphysema (i'm sorry, but if you don't know smoking will kill by now you
then your head is up your butt.)
Bettie, you hit the target perfectly. I'm whole-heartedly behind you on
encouraging personal responsibility. I'm sick and tired of all the legal
issues that're preventing the stupid people from killing their selves over,
if that makes any sense. If people are going to be stupid, they're going
to be stupid. Prostitution personally sickens me. Drugs are a big no-no
to me. However, if anyone else wants to do those two acts, then it's their
fault as well as responsibility if they come up with problems (reputations,
health issues, etc).
For the many people who tried to sue the cigarette company, it's been years
and years since people have discovered how cigarettes are not "safe." It's
only been thirty or forty (not sure how long ago) years since there's been
labels on the packaging. So, why should they have the right to sue someone
for their own doing? No offense to smokers - I have friends who smoke and
that's their deal. I don't do it, but as I said before, if people want to
smoke, they can go for it. I think the lawsuits and/or attempts to sue the
cigarette company are ridiculous.
I would feel the same if prostitution was legalized. If people screw
another without checking for STD's (I'd hope such a system was around when
the act is legalised, but assuming the system isn't there)...that's their
fault unless the pimp falsely advertised.
[Edited on 4/24/2004 by Anya]
Zero
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Posts: 459 Registered: 15/2/2004 Status: Offline
posted on 24/4/2004 at 09:27 AM
ok so i was in my own little world at work yesturday and this started
running through my head....
i'm wondering about the education system.....what if you could REALLY get
your PHD (Pimpin Ho's degree)? i mean who wouldn't show up to that class
early? the hoes (male, female or otherwise) would have to take special
classes on the art of screwin'...i've obviously thought about this way too
much...i'm thinking of the boom in education and hearing "pimp" to be the
top profession if the legalization of prostitution ever comes into
effect....i can hear my future son saying "when i grow up i wanna be a
pimp" and i can hear me saying "son, you can grow up to be anything you
want....now let me showyou how to smack a Ho"....these moments, between
father and son, are priceless.
about smoking....i hate those Truth ads....they sound as if the whole
tobacco industry is evil....well half of my family worked at RJR...they're
not evil they're good people..i'm glad cigerettes can be bought and sold
otherwise poeple alot of people would be out of jobs (and i am aware that
Phillip Moreis is a sponsor of those commercials)..those poeple that work
in those factories seem to be the ones that are forgotten when people talk
about "big tobacco"..(side note: my grandfather died of brain cancer, from
smoking, i bet) i have mad respect for the smokers, slowly killing
themselves so my relatives and other peoples families can feed
themselves...do you really want to live to like 70, anyway??
____________________ "It is a fool's prerogative to utter truths that no one else will
speak."
~
The Sandman, Dream Country
callei
Extreme Fanatic
Posts: 759 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 24/4/2004 at 11:42 AM
I think pimping would be under either "Hopitality Management" or "Sales",
one you can get a degree in, the other you just have to learn like any
other trade. Altho entrepreneurial classes would help either way I'm sure.
and i think a mere "pimp" would be more in the sales line while being a
"Madame" would need a degree. maybe i too have thought about it too long
____________________ Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away.
Kira
Member
Posts: 149 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 24/4/2004 at 01:14 PM
I'm jumping in a little late on this, but for an interesting, sometimes
funny, and often nauseating look at the world of illiegal street
prostitution check out the Hughes brothers' documentary American
Pimp.
It is clear by the end of the film that by comparison women working in the
legal brothels have it about a thousand times better than those out on the
street.
____________________ Wind me up and make me crawl to you, tie me up until I call to you.
Arthegarn
Member
Posts: 79 Registered: 31/12/1969 Status: Offline
posted on 27/4/2004 at 09:13 AM
Well, I don't think legalising prostitution would really solve the problem.
In Spain prostitution is legal, you see (a little known fact, even among
Spaniards), and things are not quite better
Just legalising prostitution is not enough. Down here the law recognizes
that selling one's own body is a victimless crime, and that victimless
crmes are no crimes at all (somebody said this before). Now everything
around prostitution, however, is forbidden.
It's quite hard to explain myself and use the proper words (I never dwelled
on this kind of vocabulary when I learnt, you know) but I'll try. There is
a general crime figure called "Proxenetismo" which inculdes a) Any sort of
prostitute-client mediation, including long-term employment of a prostiute
to sell or hire to a third party b) Offering the services of a prostitute
(other than your own, of course) c) Promoting prostitution in any way d)
Giving permanent shelter to prostitutes to fullfill their contracts. And a
lot of other things such as selling "protection" and all that.
Prostitutes are allowed as long as they are "liberal professionals". Like
lawyers, you know, or doctors. Nothing stands in a prostitute's way to get
toi the State and start paying his or her taxes to become a regular, legal
worker. Now there are a lot of problems when trying to sue someone because
he or she didn't pay you for a sexual service (big long boring theme)
It's not a matter of the law really, I think it's a matter of the mind.
Prostitutes have been disregarded in almost every culture as the lowest of
the low, by both men and women (I have my theories about why). Now, it's
getting to be the time when our societies must confront themselves with
prostitution and take a firm and decided attitude about the issue. Is
prostitution a bad thing, something that corrupts and degenerates our
society, pernicious py its very nature for our societies' moral
development? Then it should be erradicated, attacking every partner there.
The prostitute, the pimp, the client. I don't really know about American
law regarding that (other than American hookers don't want a competition...
when you travel to the US you have to declare you're not travelling there
to be a prostitute. Odd, why just that profession? A good lobby hookers
must have in Washington) but I believe it's something like that: everyone
involved is punished.
It doesn't seem to work, does it?
Otherwise we should get rid of our Pauline prejudices against sex (donĄt
mix Jesus with this, Jesus got along pretty well with prostitutes) and
start considering prostitution just a job as any other.
Or is it?
I don't think prostitution should be regarded as any other profession. A
legal prostitution must be regulated considerning that sex is a lot more
than opening your legs. For prostitution to be dignified and valid a strong
and restrictive legislation would be needed, something like a Prostitute
Bar Association. Sex is too important to leave to chance. Sex has to do
with extremely sensitive areas of our personality, not every one hires a
hooker for a good fuck. Most people need to get over traumas, solitude,
desperation... I have a sex worker as.... as a VERY good friend of mine and
you'd be amazed at how many people just need to talk, to be listened to.
You might insult me but to me, being a sex worker and doing it really well,
being able to sell all that sex has to offer is a VERY complex,
multi-disciplinar thing that needs a higher education. It's not just doing
good blowjobs, it's about having a psychologyist's empathy, a doctor's
knowledge of the body (and of some diseases), a poet's tenderness...
Definitely not something that you learn by chance
Legal pProstitution? Yeah, but with a Master's degree needed, and a union
to avoid intrusions. Ii never liked amateurs...
Just going to play devil's advocate here on the subject of protecting
people from themselves. The reason we have these laws and lawsuits is not
because anyone really cares about anyone else's health and safety (at least
not directly). It's all about the money.
For instance, here in Louisiana, they just had a vote to reinstate the
motorcycle helmet law. Do we want bikers to wear helmets because we care
about them and don't want to see them get hurt? Of course not. We want them
to wear helmets because when they don't wear helmets and they have to go to
the emergency room (or even worse, become a vegetable on life support), we
all pay for it in higher health care costs and insurance premiums.
Same goes for cigarettes. When you get lung cancer, are you going to be
paying the hundreds of thousands of dollars it costs to treat you? Unless
you are fabulously wealthy, probably not. Your insurance will (or if you're
old enough, Medicare/Medicaid). If you don't have insurance, you'll
probably have to do with a lower standard of care, but you'll still get
emergency room treatment, even if you can't pay for it. And in the end, we
all end up paying for your care in higher insurance premiums and higher
taxes. With cigarettes, states were losing so much money treating smoking
related illnesses, that the states themselves started suing tobacco
companies to recoup the losses.
The bottom line is that in a system where a large portion of healthcare is
funded publicly, the public has a vested interest in making sure you take
care of yourself. It may suck, but the alternative is a system where only
the rich get good treatment and the poor have to do with an asprin and a
pat on the back.
My two cents on legalizing prostitution:
I think the debate over legalizing prostitution is just another aspect of
the increasing gap between sex and intimacy. And what is causing this gap
to widen? Three words baby (and possibly my favorite three words in the
English language): reliable birth control. Before the advent of reliable
birth control, every time you had sex you had to acknowledge that, in all
likelihood, you were going to produce a child. Therefore, unless you were
an unconscionable asshole, you would, for the most part, only want to have
sex with someone who you would want to raise a child with (i.e. someone you
could trust and stand to live with for a long time). Now (in spite of what
fear mongers will tell you) sex is relatively safe and consequence free as
long as the proper precautions are taken. As a result, people are more
willing to experiment with sex and have sex with people with whom they
wouldn't necessarily want to become intimate.
With the advent of agricultural technology and advanced distribution, food
(for much of the world) became more about pleasure and experimentation than
survival. Similarly, with the advent of reliable birth control, sex (for
much of the world) became more about pleasure and experimentation than
procreation.
Is this gap between sex and intimacy a bad thing? I don't think so. Then
again, I'm the kind of person who believes all action has meaning only if
we decide to give it meaning. Basically, there is nothing inherently
meaningful in the physical act of sex, but through sharing it with someone
you love, it can become meaningful. To continue the food metaphor, you can
go out to an amazing, candlelit dinner with your loved one, and afterwards
you can feel so connected to them, like you know them in a way that you
never did before. Or, you can grab a quick bite to eat with your friends.
The eating isn't what's important, the sharing of the experience and the
building of intimacy is what makes it meaningful.
Should we legalize prostitution? Sure, why not. Will men be more likely to
visit prostitutes? Yes. Will prostitution become a safer and more
respectable profession? Probably. Will the availability of cheap, safe,
anonymous sex on demand be good for society? I think so, but really who
knows.
Now to take the food metaphor all the way home If prostitution is
legalized, it will become to sex what McDonald's is to food. There will
always be people who like the convenience and price of McDonald's and don't
see the need to bother with anything else. There will always be people who
wouldn't be caught dead putting that shit in their bodies and only eat what
they cook at home. And there will always be people who prefer to cook at
home but when they're starving and late for work, they'll cave in. There
will be some people who work at McDonald's for a few years while they're in
school to make extra cash. There will be some people who work at McDonald's
their entire lives until they lose all hope of something better. And there
will be people who will always look down on anyone who has ever worked at a
McDonald's.
Anonymous
Posts: 116 Registered: 14/4/2002 Status: Offline
posted on 27/4/2004 at 02:23 PM
the only flaw i can find in that metaphor is using only McDonalds as "fast
food". Where i grew up you could get take out sushi, couscous, and HUGE
fancy salads all served about as fast as McD's and in many cases faster
because the workers were paid more and ate better themselves.
I dont think all prostiution now is Mcd's level, nor is it all 4 Michelin
star, and if legalized, i think that would still be true. You could buy
very questionable hot dogs at Lucky dog or go to K Paul's or that little
place down the street from your house where all your neighbors go. I think
the same market conditions that apply now would still apply, and the same
buying pressures would be there.
angel_of_death
Member
Posts: 119 Registered: 4/4/2004 Status: Offline
posted on 28/4/2004 at 12:59 AM
so what u are saying anonymous is that sex workers would open fast serve
restraunts, and have menus...hehehe... i can imagine it now 'ill have a
tall blonde with a red head on the side' *sigh* that would be good
____________________ I know whats it like to want to die, how it hurts to smile, how you try to
fit in but you can't, how you hurt yourself on the outside, to try to kill
the pain in the inside.