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Author: Subject: Philosophisation of bullshit.

Coward





Posts: 10
Registered: 17/3/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 17/3/2004 at 11:46 PM
There is tons of bullshit out there and it usuall;y comes in two opposite extremes.

From neo-nazi conservatives to pro-khmer rouge marxists, from Atheists to Christian fundamentalists who believe looking through a telescope will send you to hell and from Spiritualists who want to force everyone to abandon technology, sleep in mud and wipe their asses with leaves to materialists who deny the existence of their own soul.

Frankly these opposite extremes are bullshit aswell, there is no happy medium or a balance between two extremes. In order to eradicate bullshit a person must not give a fuck about anything which is completely irrelevant to begin with. Just because somone ranks between the 2 extremes in terms of their opinion it doesn't mean they are right. You have to go back to basics.

For instance you want to know whether it is better to be a materialist or a spiritualist. Very simple, there is no inbetweem, no left wing or right wing view, just the correct one. The correct opinion is as follows, you are sentient, you do not know what causes sentience and so far it seems we are too stupid to come up with answers. Try examining a brain if you care that much. Oh yeah, magic is bullshit and I think you can tell what is magic and superstition and what isn't. Also something is going on as it seems that sentience should not exist in the universe, yet it does, you just don't know what is going on, admit it.

kthx

 
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Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 1570
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 18/3/2004 at 12:59 AM
yippie ki-yay motherfucker.

?

...trying to stay on track here....uhm, well it could be said that by saying that since YOU don't know what's going on nobody ELSE does is also an "extreme" in it's own way.
To a spiritualist of course they KNOW, same with *enter religion or creed here*. You could be wrong, they could be wrong, but it all comes down to point of view.
Extremists are actually quite small in number, they're just noisier than the rest. I suggest earplugs, or do what I did and relocate to bumfuck nowhere, where you're biggest gripe is your neighbor's proclivity for burning things in his yard, and it doesn't really matter cuz you can't see his stupid ass through the trees to begin with.

[Edited on 3/18/2004 by bettie_x]

 

____________________
Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.

 

Fanatic




Posts: 287
Registered: 31/10/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 18/3/2004 at 01:07 AM
*is confused*

I don't mean to come across as rude, Truth, but I seem to have missed your point somwhere in the text. Maybe it's the Benadryl talking, but I seem to be lost. Could you reiterate your point for the rest of us, please?

 

____________________
"To Live is to Annoy." -- Rev. Lambert Reilly, Archabbot, St. Meinrad Abbey

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 897
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 18/3/2004 at 03:06 AM
I think what he's saying is, fuck all these philosophies and religions, the fact is, we just don't know.

Although he then turns around and lays down the law about magic. Which leads me to believe that maybe he DOES know. Or at least thinks he does.

Personally, I don't care for people who think they've got all the right answers, even if their answers are all "I don't know." Maybe you don't know. And maybe I do. Or maybe I don't, who cares. Just don't assume that the things you don't know, no one knows.

It's very arrogant and silly.

And how do you KNOW that magic doesn't exist? Hmmmmmmm? And what if it doesn't exist for you (i.e., you can't do it) but it does for someone else? Have you searched the entire universe and looked into the soul of every being therein and proved beyond any shadow of any doubt that the phenomenon called magic does not exist? And if you have done that, please don't tell me that you haven't also figured out a little more about sentience, after all that research.

As for me, I do what works for me, and I have some theories about why they work for me, but if they get disproven I won't cry. And I'm certainly not going to tell everyone else that what I think is THE TRUTH, even if it is the truth, because what works for me may not work for someone else, and, in fact, they might think differently because they, I don't know, maybe KNOW MORE than me!

Damn fundamentalist agnostics...

 

____________________
"You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest of girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"

 

Fanatic




Posts: 580
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 18/3/2004 at 05:12 AM
I apologise in advance if this is too lowbrow a response, but it doesn't sound like you are "philosophisating" (sic) bullshit or much of anything else. Unless I am misreading you, you are espousing something between nihilism and ethical relativism. Neither are very exotic or enlightening, but they are at least fairly easy for A.O.A. to grasp.

~M.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 759
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 18/3/2004 at 06:43 AM
hmm sounded more like senioritis to me, the strain that people not in the top 1/3 of thier class get. "i just spend 12 years doing this crap for what? fuck you I want to get laid and get drunk."

 

____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires away.

 

Fanatic




Posts: 470
Registered: 23/9/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 18/3/2004 at 08:05 AM
Callei, I know that you didn't mean to offend or anything, but let's not talk about getting laid or drunk like they are bad things.


Philosohpisation though, that's just such and awfully big word. You must be an Alpha. I'm so glad I'm not an Alpha.

I'd write more but I'm already bored.

 

____________________
It's like kegel exercises for your throat.~Monolycus

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 759
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 18/3/2004 at 08:21 AM
oh goodness! THAT was not my intent at all! im all for a workable lifestyle philosophy, especially if it includes sex. i was thinking more the difference between the "going to college to get sex by looking smart", the "going to college and hoping to get sex by looking smart", and the "skipping college because there is already enough sex here right now" sections of a graduating class.

 

____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires
away.

 

Fanatic




Posts: 459
Registered: 15/2/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 18/3/2004 at 08:26 AM
I had no idea you could get laid by looking smart.....College here I "come".

 

____________________
"It is a fool's prerogative to utter truths that no one else will speak." ~ The Sandman, Dream Country

 

Member




Posts: 76
Registered: 23/1/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 18/3/2004 at 08:48 AM
So, you mean something distinguished from perception or thought?

If there is a consciousness distinguished from perception or thought, it is the awareness of there being only perception and thought to understand that there is something beyond this.
Meaning that whatever you perceive, is the shape of perception and thought.
What's beyond this, is untouchable. Like pressing and feeling on a black plastic bag, to try to understand what's inside it. Your fingers tell your brain what's in the bag.
In the same way, in this world, you are just like your fingers.
The amazing thing is that it's all conceivable.

If you have to call any result of this consciousness by a name, then you're lost.
Magic is a name.
But I promise you there is a god.
Yet I am of no religion.
Yet things said by Jesus, are true.

Remember to love.
And knock on doors, and they will open.

What he said is true.

 

____________________
Jameel

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 759
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 18/3/2004 at 10:05 AM
that was unitarian of you wasnt it? mixed with whatever religion it is that goes door to door. I wonder if thier publications are called the "dont watch! tower".

 

____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires />
away.

 

Fanatic




Posts: 598
Registered: 24/8/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 18/3/2004 at 12:03 PM
*snicker* Don't Watch! Tower...oh man, that's priceless.

 

____________________
Okay, dazzle me.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 658
Registered: 27/5/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 18/3/2004 at 12:25 PM
Hey now, what's wrong with nihilism?

 

____________________

i wanted to die, and then it progressed into wanting everyone else to die so i could watch, and then me die.

-ickgirl

 

Member




Posts: 149
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 18/3/2004 at 12:29 PM
I save copies of the Watchtower to wrap presents in! Then I add my own little thought bubbles to the pictures with a sharpie marker.

 

____________________
Wind me up and make me crawl to you, tie me up until I call to you.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 759
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 18/3/2004 at 06:39 PM
she really does. its the coolest thing

 

____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and
vampires
/>

away.

 

Coward




Posts: 10
Registered: 17/3/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 19/3/2004 at 12:22 PM
Wow.

Your replies have really deepenned my understanding of not knowing anything. I am a fundamentalist agnostic, in fact I have theorized for some time that I am also stupid and ignorant. The belief that nothing can be completely proven and the idea that only reasonning and scientific method allow for our non-omnipotent intelligence to understand and predict our surroundings and what is going on around us can be considerred as much bullshit as any other 'extremist' belief, despite the fact that it is based on my perceptions of reality.

Frankly this entire absolute agnostic dilemma yields the same results as any normal person wonderring as to the reasonning of certain ideas, but a little wiser. Though of course, with this wisdom, certain mistakes will not be repeated.

I think philosophy should be scrapped and built up again, except this time more abstractly, critically and unbiased, looking at every aspect of determinning stuff, such as punctuation and why we believe certain things are reasonable and others are not.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 759
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 19/3/2004 at 08:42 PM
you might want to expand your reading list of methods of knowing, a.k.a philosophy. there are way more out there already that you seem to have heard of yet. and it will help you see where others have failed when building new world views.

There are a few members here that are into that and probably have a great list of authors and websites, if you want someone to help point the way out of ignorance.

 

____________________
Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and

vampires

/>


away.

 

Extreme Fanatic




Posts: 656
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 19/3/2004 at 11:52 PM
Hate to break it to you, but I do not really think there is any philosophies that're not biased. Everyone is biased to an extent, while some are more biased than others. I'm biased. You're biased. Everyone is biased. We see things through our own eyes, though to an extent -could- see through other people's eyes. In the end, though, we're all biased...whether to the extremes or not.

What one can do, though, is look at all the sources, look at the different points of biasness, and come to their own conclusion and where they stand...and why they stand on that position.

Maybe I misread your post, but it seemed you wanted an unbiased philosophy or something...

Hrmm, list, list...I'm not an expert, but I have a share of philosophers that I like. One person I really like is Sun Tzu...others I like are Anton LaVey, the Transcendental and Anti-Transcendental authors, Lao-Tzu, hrmm...there's more, I'll think on it all later. I tend to be a mindless philosopher myself, as you can tell through my posts. *grin*


 

Fanatic




Posts: 287
Registered: 31/10/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 20/3/2004 at 01:56 AM
Socrates had it right when he said, "true wisdom is knowing that you know nothing."

I'm not going to run around wearing an "Ignorant and Proud" t-shirt of anything, but I'm not going to pretend I have the ultimate answers to anything.

Life's a continuous learning process, Truth. Schizoi is a wonderful person to learn from, as is Meranda_Jade. Rogue and Monolycus are two people that I'd pester for good philosophical debates, and Feral and Anya seem to enjoy the role of devil's advocate. And I still believe Cellei is the reigning Queen of Often-Overlooked Common Sense. In all honesty, everyone has something useful to teach everyone else.

Just look around, listen, and share.

 

____________________
"To Live is to Annoy." -- Rev. Lambert Reilly, Archabbot, St. Meinrad Abbey

 

Fanatic




Posts: 580
Registered: 31/12/1969
Status: Offline

  posted on 20/3/2004 at 02:22 AM
Squid: I'll try to be as delicate about this as I am able. The problem with Nihilism is that it is a reductio ad absurdum of Fatalism. It makes a great fall-back position for people who just want to be contentious or a great security blanket for people who don't want to be bothered to try to wrap their brains around a bigger picture. If self-fulfilling prophecy is your bag, then by all means, live the Nihilist dream. To my way of thinking, a militant Nihilist is very much like a vocal vegan... I have some very deep doubts about how genuinely they believe what they are saying, but they have discovered it is a tremendously effective way to annoy people very quickly.

T_T: Exactly how "knowable" anything is has been at the core of most philosophical thought since the Milesian school of thinkers. Although I have some fundamental disagreements with many of his conclusions, you might want to begin with Rene Descartes who tackled that very question right off the bat. If you want to be extreme about the issue, and nobody really does, then I invite you to wander into the middle of a busy highway since you can't really "prove" that oncoming traffic actually exists or will harm you if it hits you. If you are going to behave as though there is an objective reality anyway (and if you have made it this far in life without getting yourself killed, you already do), you might as well accept that it can be understood in either a limited or an unlimited way (there is an article in one of the backlogs where Squid, Comedian, Rogue, myself and some others discussed this... I'll see if I can find it). What you seem to be doing is accepting that if perfect understanding of the world is impossible (debatable... Squid would tell you that it is not impossible), then an imperfect understanding is worse than none at all. I would have to call bullshit there. Anyway, best of luck... and when you are at a very comfortable point, meditate upon the extant fragments of Herakleitos "the Dark" of Ephesos.

LadyC: I don't think Socrates ever said that.

~M.

 
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