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Author: Subject: Who is god?

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  posted on 1/7/2003 at 03:48 AM
The “Fires and Hell” discussion is starting to sound like a topic: “How do you define God?” This is a topic that has taken up many drunken hours of my friends. My definition is: It is it because it has no partner. The reason is that there can be no other being from its race than it self. If there is not a second one then it is impossible to compare sex in theory. It must be the most powerful being this also includes that it cannot create a being of equal or potentially greater power. If this happens than it is only an “alpha”. It has created all domains and the first of all living things. As far as domains it has created heaven, earth, hell and every thing in between. Upon creation all things had their own power (place & living). But none even close to a tenth of it’s power. It knows that it will end every thing and what will cause this but not when. The reason is human’s free will. It must like reality TV. ::shudders:: This being is also omni present. It knows every thing about the past and present with an outlook at all of the infinite paths of the future. It knows every being before the being is aware of it self. It desires us to do something no matter how many lives or how short or long they are before the end of it all. Did you ask “why?” Well I have no idea. I must not tolerate the lost of a soul well. That is why there are so many religions trying to get us in heaven. Each of these hold the basic path to heaven with some bull shit, some wallet opening tricks, extra rules… due to the fact humans screw up. Maybe I am a screw up for trying to define god. I want any one to tell me their definitions, challenges/modifications, or things that need elaboration. There are a lot of things I left out but every time it comes up we find new things to define better. Every one of my friend’s has their own view some are parallel to mine others say multiple gods, no gods but energy in every thing, while one friend believes we are on our own and as it stands we are fucked. We have started to finding our views are starting to blend together.

 

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  posted on 1/7/2003 at 04:23 AM
An anthrapomophism of physics and biology? that would be my answer. But then my 'world view' doesnt need a heaven or a hell to make it complete or understandable, nor does it need a rationalization for ignorance and suffering.
But then i also dont believe that space/time is finite or that genetics are a fluke.
And some night out drinking with your friends maybe try asking "why define God" and see where that one ends up. Its bound to get strange

 

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Real goths wear silver and crosses to keep the werewolves and vampires away.

 

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  posted on 1/7/2003 at 12:48 PM
Personally I believe in the supernatural, but in my opinion if there is a god, it isn't showing itself and doesn't care what's going on down here... why should it? My favourite interpretation of god was in an Anne Rice book, where this god didn't know why he was here, and had created matter and such in an attempt to see if a god could eventually come out of it so he'd understand how he'd come to be.

As far as I see it what happens happens and the only things to blame or credit is coicidense (i'm pretty sure i spelt that wrong) and ourselves... purple monkey dishwasher

 

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  posted on 1/7/2003 at 01:37 PM
Damn it, I need to get online more. I'll reply to this thread soon.

 

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but at least you know, just how much pain there is in living
 

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  posted on 1/7/2003 at 01:39 PM
According to Emil Durkheim, gods are the apotheosis of the culture that produces them (viz. self worship on a cultural scale). That definition works fairly well within the context of the societies that he was describing (Australian aboriginal peoples at that time) and would work equally well for a few others, provided there is a homogeniety of belief (such as North American cultures like the Kwakiutl circa 1800). In a culture in which individual beliefs are fairly diverse, it could be argued that gods represent an apotheosis of the individual (viz. self worship on a smaller scale).

I think a better question than "Who is God?" (sorry, the question itself implies monotheism and already ascribes attributes such as identity to that godhead which may or may not be warranted) would be "What are gods?" There is ample evidence that a "race" or even different "races" of gods (call them Elohim, Æsir, the fill-in-the-blank pantheon, gods, or what have you) have appeared on the scene from time to time in a very literal, albeit it pandimensional fashion. The jury is still out about whether they have the best interests of humans at heart (the jury is also still out about whether humans have human's best interests at heart). According to the "myth" of Prometheus (who gave humans "fire"), the myth of Lucifer (the "Light Bringer"), and other local "myths", the gods have been none too pleased about anyone advancing the cause of humans... and humans have subsequently vilified those that have tried to bring them illumination as well. So from one perspective, gods run the plantation and humans are the happy illiterates that work for them. Just one thought.

The aim of mysticism is to experience G/god, so you could say that having simply asked your question in the first place puts you on the path towards becoming a mystic (I approve). The aim of most occultism, conversely, is to become "more than human" (Shouldn't be a difficult feat; I've seen human and it ain't all that), so if you had phrased your question differently, it would have pointed you on the path towards occultism, in which case the answer to your question (viz. "Who is God?") would have been "Me! Right here!". It just so happens that we have a diety here who runs this site, so it might be worth your time to just ask him who he is directly.

~M.

 

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  posted on 1/7/2003 at 05:47 PM
I was recently talking with a friend and we got off on this weird "theory of existance" type conversation. We came to the conclusion that all of existance was made up of three elements - matter/energy (which I really think we will eventually find are one and the same), time, and spirit. Each of these elements has 3 dimensions. The 3 dimensions of matter/energy are obvious - line, plane and cube, to give examples. The 1st dimension of time is a time-line, the thing we travel along. The 3rd is eternity. I don't have a word to describe 2 dimensional time, but it would be to time-line and eternity what a square is to a line and a cube.

Now, as for the subject of Who (or what) is god, I feel that concept fits into the element of the spirit. The 1st dimension would be the individual. Again, I'm not sure how to describe the 2nd dimension spirit, but I think the 3rd dimension spirit could be described as god.

The theme of the 3rd dimension of all 3 elements is infinity - infinite space, infinite time, and infinite spirit.

Then again, now that I think about it, if you think of god as the supreme entity, maybe it would be the combination of all 3 dimensions and elements - the culmination so to speak.

I don't know, I'm getting over my own head now, and I really don't know how to fit in this high-faluting theory with my own personal experience. I guess you'd have to go to one of the other religion threads to find my more personal, rather than intellectual, theory of god.

 

____________________
"You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest of girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"

 

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  posted on 1/7/2003 at 06:06 PM
The only way I could define him in a more realistic sense is the harmony within, the peace within. Anyone ever had that place inside them that they find peace in? That's how I define "God/gods" in a more realist sense. As far as theories go, I take the universal approach that he/she/it is everywhere...around you, inside you, and beyond. Spiritually, well, everyone has their own way. *shrug*


 

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  posted on 1/7/2003 at 07:42 PM
Mono. very informative. It is very rarely we use scientific studies in our dubates. Just personal expearances and obivations.

Nicholas your view is one that is parallel to a friends. His is that god created man and man will become a god. In doing so he will create the next god. This view has been paraphased but you get the idrea.

Schizo your view is what we call "the 3". It is based on things are three parts "energy" to make one being. ie: mind, soul, & body= man and in christanity the father, son, & holy sprit=god

Anya yours seem to be a form of mine. the major defance is that in mine you know you have acomplised every thing for this life time when you reach a zen state. there apears that we may change else where too but more explaining is required from both of us.

 

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i am a misunderstood genius... Nobody understands that i am a genius!

 

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  posted on 2/7/2003 at 02:53 AM
A religious way can be a way to connect to God(higher being, greater force(s), etc), but I do not believe it is the only way for the Absolute transcends all that is of religion, politics, "right" and "wrong", "good" and "evil, the Heavens and Hells, etc. The closest to it, however, are those who have mastered themselves and found harmony within and thus, likely harmony without. To me that is the path, but the path will be different for everyone for everyone has different experiences, personalities, merits, flaws, etc. Someone once said that knowing the world without is wise, but knowing the world within is enlightenment *I think it came from the movie Bulletproof Monk*. So I guess another part would be enlightenment...but eh.

The Absolute is everywhere...it's the universal essence, the cycle of life and death, and most of all, the Absolute within is the harmony within. Eh. I'll stop there for a bit. These are my beliefs utterly condensed.

 

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  posted on 22/9/2004 at 02:42 PM
having many heated conversations about this topic with a wide variety of people, from peers to priests) i have come to the common consensus that god is who you make him to be.

 

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  posted on 23/9/2004 at 11:30 AM
no offense... but if god exists... then god si who god is, not who we make him/her/// that would be like saying... you are who I make you... as an individual, god may very well have personality flaws or mental problems...

 

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Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist

 

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  posted on 23/9/2004 at 12:36 PM
By combining much thinking with much drinking, I thought the easier question to ask would be who isn't god? By thinking about everyone I know, and applying a simple process of elimination, I came to the conclusion that I am, in fact, god. Problem solved.
The nice thing about alcoholic thinking is that fallacious reasoning has no power over it.

 

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Okay, dazzle me.

 

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  posted on 23/9/2004 at 01:28 PM
Pale-face, you say God is who you make Him to be. I disagree. People think they can change who God is, and they often try. As a believer of absolute truth (as opposed to strict relativism) I cannot accept a religion that allows its followers to mold God into who and what they want Him to be. I believe God is who He is, regardless of how people distort and misinterpret His will to match theirs. Rationalization is an easily-abused art.

What we perceive to be culteral discrepancies are actually practices founded on similar principles. James Rachels (thank you, philosophy class) uses the example of the Eskimos, who practice infantacide. We could look at their practice and say, They're wrong; killing babies is unacceptable and the Eskimos have no regard for human life.

In reality, the Eskimos value human life as much other cultures--but killing babies (especially girls) is how they protect their population. For one, Eskimo mothers, who nurse their children until four years or later, can only provide nourishment for so many children. She can also carry one infant in her parka as she travels. The Eskimos also kill female babies because the males are hunters, and hunters have a high casualty rate. If baby girls weren't killed off, females would soon outnumber the food-producing males.

So, what appears to be heartless murder is actually a display of regard for human life.

This example is simply to say that believing in strict relativism, while teaching us to be open-minded, would allow us to base our moral codes, as well as our idea of God, on our respective societies, which may be as corrupt as we'd like them to be.

The problem, of course, comes in knowing what the absolute truth is.

 

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  posted on 23/9/2004 at 05:13 PM
I would say that truth is absolute, but there is no way to be absolutely sure of absolutely all of it. In other words, some things are definitely true, and other things are definitely false, but I definitely don't know entirely which is which, and some things I think I know I'm probably mistaken about. Which is why the concept of absolute truth can be scarey - not because I'm scared of absolute truth, but because I'm scared of people who think they know what absolute truth is.

And yes, if there is a god/God/goddess, etc., he/she/it is what it is, not what we want it to be. Unless it is a figment of our imaginations, in which case, we aren't really worshipping a god, but rather a part of ourselves. And that part of ourselves is what it is, also, and not just what we want it to be.

 

____________________
"You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the
dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest of
girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"

 

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  posted on 23/9/2004 at 05:43 PM
I agree, but we do have both the power and authority to change what lies within ourselves, to an extent of course.

And we can't forget religions whose entire premise is just that: to worship a part of oneself. Many new-age sects fall under this category.

 

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  posted on 23/9/2004 at 05:51 PM
Yes, who we are is constantly in a state of metamorphosis, and a deity based on a part of ourselves would also experience that change and development. But at any given moment, we are what we are in that moment, and along with us, our self-based deity as well. If it were possible to freeze-frame a life like that.

 

____________________
"You can tell by the scars on my arms and the cracks in my hips and the />
dents in my car and the blisters on my lips that I'm not the carefullest
of

girls." - Dresden Dolls, "Girl Anachronism"

 

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  posted on 23/9/2004 at 05:59 PM
That's the problem I have with worshipping self-will instead of a separate deity; it a)allows us to pursue selfish goals, and b)puts a mutable being, the self, in power instead of an all-powerful protector.

 

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  posted on 23/9/2004 at 07:52 PM
Andree, i appreciate your response (you to ferral). But in my own respect for god (if there is one) he or she is different from person to person. hence the makings for so many different religions. Buddha, god, the list continues endlessly. hence why i say god is different from person to person and you can make him be who you want, because until we meet him, we are never going to know otherwise. assuming there was a god. i don’t think he would have any problem with that. i don’t think he would have a problem with people who don’t even believe in him. because if that were the case, it would make his work ever more mysterious.

 

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  posted on 23/9/2004 at 09:15 PM
But there are two ways to go about "making God different from person to person." One way is to make an honest, objective assesment of who we think God is. This would include reading texts, gaining perspective to the best of our abilities, developing an earnest yearning for truth, and possibly even forming a relationship with God.

The other way is to say, "I want X to be morally justifiable, so I'm going to create and subsequently believe in a God who will allow me to do that."

 

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  posted on 23/9/2004 at 09:37 PM
Pale-face...

I have anecdotal evidence... I am me... There is only one me... BUT... many people have different opinions of me... more than one person here feel that I am just a blustering idiot... some people think that I "love tearing into people"... still others have other perceptions of who and what I am...

Just because you percieve something in a particular way, does not necessarily make it so. many people percieve god to be a particular way, but that is because they have a certain filter, called personal experience over their vision... Just because the have views of the divine, does not mean the divine is constrained by those views... Just as I am not what people view me to be...

 

____________________
The earth turns on a tilted axis - just doing the best it can.



Hohenheim of Light~Full Metal Alchemist

 
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